LO when are you going to ban speed hackers

[vsb 6171]

19 minutes ago, SilverCrow said:

What am I missing? What's funny?

pretty sure orbit has said A) they have server side internal anti cheat measures, and B) they’re working on even more server side anticheat measures 

[Cr0 328]

26 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

pretty sure orbit has said A) they have server side internal anti cheat measures, and B) they’re working on even more server side anticheat measures 

Oh... well so did G1 before FF.  Those things they do themselves never seem to do much. When I said they don't have one, I was referring to something worth mentioning.

 

Edited January 29, 2019 by SilverCrow

[Darkzero3802 611]

3 hours ago, SilverCrow said:

It was better than what they have now, which says a lot.

Unless your referring to name and shame it wasnt ever any better. Theres a reason it was called Failfight.

[DedGaem 146]

On 1/29/2019 at 7:47 AM, SilverCrow said:

reported a speedhacker who was also advertising his cheat website in chat. Week later, he's still there doing the same thing. If there was a direct way for me to message a GM he'd be removed in 4 minutes instead of 4 months.

^This is why I don't even believe in the Engine Upgrade.

On 1/29/2019 at 6:01 PM, Darkzero3802 said:

Unless your referring to name and shame it wasnt ever any better. Theres a reason it was called Failfight.

FF was on manual BTW with Tiggs calling the shots.  that's not even investing in the actual FailFight program.  What we have now, is essentially nothing, since well all know BattLEye is bypassed.  And yeah, sorry but ANYTHING is better than nothing.  

Let's see.... invest in an old poorly coded, hacked game, start out by amnestying all the old banned cheater accounts (yes many false bans among them) and VOILA!~ 2019~ Taadaaa

[Alani 475]

I liked the fair fight website.

 

Showed how 'professional' the community and company can be in the times of public shaming. 

 

 

Lol

[Fortune Runner 796]

1 hour ago, Hey! said:

This is why I don't even believe in the Engine Upgrade.

how does that have anything to do with the engine upgrade?

[Haganu 104]

Everyone on the bring back Fairfight bandwagon would be so disappointed if LO would bring it back and it would actually do next to nothing. I actually want to see it happen. 

Bonus points if they in turn hop on the bring back Punkbuster bandwagon.

[Cr0 328]

5 hours ago, Alani said:

I liked the fair fight website.

 

Showed how 'professional' the community and company can be in the times of public shaming. 

 

 

Lol

That website was run by an APB player though. The company had nothing to do with that.

 

[Removed video. -Spuzva]

 

That's the guy I was referring to in my eariler post actually.

"reported a speedhacker who was also advertising his cheat website in chat. Week later, he's still there doing the same thing. If there was a direct way for me to message a GM he'd be removed in 4 minutes instead of 4 months."

 

1 hour ago, Haganu said:

Everyone on the bring back Fairfight bandwagon would be so disappointed if LO would bring it back and it would actually do next to nothing. I actually want to see it happen. 

Bonus points if they in turn hop on the bring back Punkbuster bandwagon.

The thing is that Fairfight can work really well, which is proven for other games in the same sort of genre, if you set it up correctly. The old G1 misused Fairfight when they dealt out questionable manual bans. They even let favouritism and and partisanship decide manual bans and unbans which they blamed on Fairfight. They completely hid behind it. Some times it was because some players had direct lines of communication with "befriended" employees. What a mess. It was completely catastrophic. If they wouldn't have abused FF like that, and it wouldn't be for the public display of bans within the game, it would have a lot better reputation in the community. Sure, it did get a few false positives but they got reversed, just like Battleye has also had false positives reversed.

We need to have something like FF combined with something like BE.

[Haganu 104]

Just now, SilverCrow said:

That website was run by an APB player though. The company had nothing to do with that.

 

That's the guy I was referring to in my eariler post actually.

"reported a speedhacker who was also advertising his cheat website in chat. Week later, he's still there doing the same thing. If there was a direct way for me to message a GM he'd be removed in 4 minutes instead of 4 months."

 

The thing is that Fairfight can work really well, which is proven for other games in the same sort of genre, if you set it up correctly. The old G1 misused Fairfight when they dealt out questionable manual bans. They even let favouritism and and partisanship decide manual bans and unbans which they blamed on Fairfight. They completely hid behind it. Some times it was because some players had direct lines of communication with "befriended" employees. What a mess. It was completely catastrophic. If they wouldn't have abused FF like that, and it wouldn't be for the public display of bans within the game, it would have a lot better reputation in the community. Sure, it did get a few false positives but they got reversed, just like Battleye has also had false positives reversed.

I don't doubt that Fairfight can work well for a game. It's just with APB's sloppy netcode and low server tick rate that I can't see Fairfight living up to its potential in case of APB. The best you'll get without taking relatively large risks on turning false positives is tracking stats, and that will take a while before it can turn over a ban.

[Cr0 328]

54 minutes ago, Haganu said:

I don't doubt that Fairfight can work well for a game. It's just with APB's sloppy netcode and low server tick rate that I can't see Fairfight living up to its potential in case of APB. The best you'll get without taking relatively large risks on turning false positives is tracking stats, and that will take a while before it can turn over a ban.

The "sloppy netcode and server tick rate" mantra, I suspect doesn't affect Fairfight as much as people think, as Fairfight is based on stats collected over time and doesn't ban players on a various discrepancies. This can be tuned, but they gave up. The major upside to FF is that you can get to cheaters who have bypassed the client anti cheat, which cheaters will always do. This is why companies invest in FF in the first place. So they are never safe and what we saw in APB was how old "closet" type cheaters (which is the most common type) suddenly started getting banned which couldn't be gotten to before. Now that is gone and they are back to doing the same thing. So LO is going to have to relearn the lesson that old G1 did, however long that takes. Problem is: They don't have that time. They said themselves that if they don't fix the cheater situation, it's over.

Edited January 31, 2019 by SilverCrow

[xHenryman90x 129]

45 minutes ago, SilverCrow said:

The thing is that Fairfight can work really well, which is proven for other games in the same sort of genre, if you set it up correctly.

 

Sure, it did get a few false positives but they got reversed, just like Battleye has also had false positives reversed.

Give us an example of a game where FF works very well, last time i checked other shooters where it's used and i saw many complaints on various game forums complaining how ineffective it is. FF can make cheats less effective at best and that's where its effectiveness ends.

 

Sure, but once they messed up the rulesets or FF itself have become inconsistent over time, you can't make clear distinction who's guilty and who isn't by stats alone.

[Cr0 328]

34 minutes ago, xHenryman90x said:

Give us an example of a game where FF works very well, last time i checked other shooters where it's used and i saw many complaints on various game forums complaining how ineffective it is. FF can make cheats less effective at best and that's where its effectiveness ends.

A) People who get banned say FF sucks because "I didn't cheat". Sure. Nobody ever did, right?. B) All games will always have cheaters, so the anti cheat will always be blamed. If FF is the anti cheat they will blame that. Even Battleye which is supposed to be "the best" anti cheat has a slightly bad reputation. So the playing field what anti cheat is actually good or bad is pretty even among the proper ones used today. That is the reality. So the question is what to go for. What type you want. I already explained the strength with FF in my last post and that type of anti cheat is effective. BUT, it needs to be combined with a proper client side anti cheat. This is the solution needed, and I always say this.

 

Quote

Sure, but once they messed up the rulesets or FF itself have become inconsistent over time, you can't make clear distinction who's guilty and who isn't by stats alone.

 

I totally don't agree. I maintain that they gave up. If there's anything that can make a distinction who is guilty  it IS stats over time, (with proper rulsets), specifically, because some things are 100% impossible to do. If someone keeps doing that, FF can find it. For example if you lock on to a certain bone 100% without fail every time, all the time over a period of 50 hours, then you are cheating, because a human can't do that. Basic things like that you can't get wrong. That sort of thing should be used. Rage cheaters/stupid closets at least will be banned. Same if you have no recoil for example, you'll be able to aim in ways not possible for a human. Those kinds of rulesets are never questionable. That is the kind of stuff that should always be there. Right now, there is nothing to detect that kind of stuff afaik. FF would have done that. People in APB don't like FF because of how G1 misused it and couldn't deal with good rulesets. Truth is FF was a real problem for cheaters. On cheat sellers forums they'd have guides how to avoid getting banned by Fairfight and people still couldn't follow those simple guidelines and complained that they got banned, all the time. It worked.

Edited January 31, 2019 by SilverCrow

[Similarities 226]

1 hour ago, Haganu said:

It's just with APB's sloppy netcode and low server tick rate that I can't see Fairfight living up to its potential in case of APB.

1

How do you believe this would have any tangible effect on FF's capabilities? Actual question, since you seem so educated on anti-cheating technology and behavioral analysis.

 

EDIT: Also, G1/LO does have their own anti-cheat measures and more are being added on a regular basis. More is in the pipeline, trust me.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Similarities

[xHenryman90x 129]

3 minutes ago, SilverCrow said:

If there's anything that can make a distinction who is guilty  it IS stats over time, specifically, because some things are 100% impossible to do. If someone keeps doing that, FF can find it. For example if you lock on to a certain bone 100% without fail every time, all the time over a period of 50 hours, then you are cheating,

They can still cheat but less effectively without bone perfect aimlock, these cheat programs can be adjusted so it doesn't make bone perfect locking that then can be detected.

[Cr0 328]

4 minutes ago, Similarities said:

How do you believe this would have any tangible effect on FF's capabilities? Actual question, since you seem so educated on anti-cheating technology and behavioral analysis.

Yes, I'd like to ask the same question.

 

Quote

EDIT: Also, G1/LO does have their own anti-cheat measures and more are being added on a regular basis. More is in the pipeline, trust me.

Among cheat developers, the game developers own anti cheat measures are seen as the easiest to deal with from what I've seen (I'm no expert in this) and here comes yet another game developer who are going to try what so many did before without much success. I'd like to be hopeful but I'm very skeptical.

[Similarities 226]

Just now, SilverCrow said:

 

 

Among cheat developers, the game developers own anti cheat measures are seen as the easiest to deal with from what I've seen (I'm no expert in this) and here comes yet another game developer who are going to try what so many did before without much success. I'd like to be hopeful but I'm very skeptical.

2

Well, it depends on the game, from what I recall with BF5 hooking a lot of the game functions would result in a fairfight flag and it made it rather difficult to cheat, not incredibly difficult per se, but more difficult than it would've been. The anti-cheating game, regardless of if you're a game dev or a security analyst/consultant, is a cat and mouse game, and the cheater can hide in every crease and crevice while the cat has to be crafty to catch the mouse. It's the name of the game, and as long as you can load order EAC/BE, they will never be effective in comparison to ESEA/FaceIT's own anti-cheat measures. Period. The people that say "bro just google BE bypasses and they're everywhere" are clueless and it shows in their posts, they make baseless and outlandish implications, yes BattlEye isn't the perfect anti-cheat, but to say EAC would be better, or PB, or VAC, or even FF is a half-truth. It all depends on implementation, if you implement the anti-cheat poorly, it'll perform poorly. End of story.

[Cr0 328]

13 minutes ago, xHenryman90x said:

They can still cheat but less effectively without bone perfect aimlock, these cheat programs can be adjusted so it doesn't make bone perfect locking that then can be detected.

Dude, I know about smooth aim.

Did I say it would catch all aimbotters? OR did I say it would catch the blatant/stupid ones?

The facts still stand that FF was a problem for many cheaters and they since I was a member of several cheat websites/forums I know that these cheaters were still getting banned while the cheat developer tried to explain to them that they simply played to blatant. FF worked.

 

8 minutes ago, Similarities said:

Well, it depends on the game, from what I recall with BF5 hooking a lot of the game functions would result in a fairfight flag and it made it rather difficult to cheat, not incredibly difficult per se, but more difficult than it would've been. The anti-cheating game, regardless of if you're a game dev or a security analyst/consultant, is a cat and mouse game, and the cheater can hide in every crease and crevice while the cat has to be crafty to catch the mouse. It's the name of the game, and as long as you can load order EAC/BE, they will never be effective in comparison to ESEA/FaceIT's own anti-cheat measures. Period. The people that say "bro just google BE bypasses and they're everywhere" are clueless and it shows in their posts, they make baseless and outlandish implications, yes BattlEye isn't the perfect anti-cheat, but to say EAC would be better, or PB, or VAC, or even FF is a half-truth. It all depends on implementation, if you implement the anti-cheat poorly, it'll perform poorly. End of story.

Yep, of course. I agree. It's about implementation (and what the dev is willing to pay for). Client and server sided anti cheat together implemented properly is the best scenario. Still though I remain sceptical of what the dev can do on their own. There is a reason there are companies specializing in anti cheat after all.

Edited January 31, 2019 by SilverCrow

[Similarities 226]

3 minutes ago, SilverCrow said:

Yep, of course. I agree. It's about implementation (and what the dev is willing to pay for). Client and server sided anti cheat together implemented properly is the best scenario imo.

3

I agree with you entirely, if FairFight was configured properly, it would be incredibly annoying because you're never safe, especially if it's constantly being configured. It's Big Brother, always watching. Same thing can be said with clientside anti-cheats, if they're constantly configured and updated, they can be very effective, but the problem with clientside is as you said, it is a gate to entry, but once you've found a way to enter, you're basically untouchable afterward.

[Cr0 328]

2 minutes ago, Similarities said:

I agree with you entirely, if FairFight was configured properly, it would be incredibly annoying because you're never safe, especially if it's constantly being configured. It's Big Brother, always watching. Same thing can be said with clientside anti-cheats, if they're constantly configured and updated, they can be very effective, but the problem with clientside is as you said, it is a gate to entry, but once you've found a way to enter, you're basically untouchable afterward.

Thank you! , someone who understands! rare

 

 

[xHenryman90x 129]

17 minutes ago, SilverCrow said:

Dude, I know about smooth aim.

Did I say it would catch all aimbotters? OR did I say it would catch the blatant/stupid ones?

No you didn't. If someone is blatant/stupid, you don't need more than recorded video clip or GM.

Edited January 31, 2019 by xHenryman90x

[Cr0 328]

2 hours ago, xHenryman90x said:

No you didn't. If someone is blatant/stupid, you don't need more than recorded video clip or GM.

You can't always see on video if someone is locking on, unless it's a recording from their own screen and not yours. All you'll see is he/she hits most of their shots. You'll catch only the super blatant rage cheaters with videos, those who do like constant super blatant snaps or whatever, but the majority of cheaters try to hide it. Sending videos in is a very ineffective way of dealing with cheaters in large. It also takes months for support to see tickets. GMs are very busy also. You can't really get their attention most of the time.

Edited January 31, 2019 by SilverCrow

[Shui 225]

Gitgud scrubs

You are even more pathetic for whining like little babies and hackusating everyone for no reason than the real cheaters.

[Rebelliousness 85]

On 1/29/2019 at 1:56 PM, Darkzero3802 said:

Which is why everyone is in uproar over the amount of cheaters and the lack of proper anti hack on the part of LO. Anyone who says hackers dont exist in APB are either special (too stupid to realize a hack when they see it) or there protecting the status quo of APB vets which is to compensate for being bad and its perfectly ok, LO needs to add a server side anti hack asap instead of a new engine as there wont be anybody playing when its released and a new engine wont solve the hack problem.

QFT.

LO definitely has the wrong set of priorities. Their legit players are going to fade away out of attrition due to being tired of dying 20x per mission to blatant hackers long before they ever have a working engine upgrade.  The sad thing is, this was so easily preventable. All they had to do was tweak FF better, instead of listen to the hacker crowd and implement a bypassed anticheat for them to destroy what's left of the game with. Seems to me the bad server performance is probably related to the hacker infestation rather than dedicated ddos attacks.

I reiterate, that if actually banning the cheaters is devastating to the game, then simply crank up detection and temp kick them more quickly from matches their ruining. If someone get's kicked frequently, he can petition for a review by the devs.  If no hack is found, for that player, the sensitivity settings can be a bit more lenient, for actusl pro players, but within human possibility reason.  People would enjoy the game far more if suspicious players got insta-kicked... then endure blatant cheaters who play without penalty for hours, daily, for months and months ensuring other people give up the game.

6 hours ago, Halelulia said:

Gitgud scrubs

You are even more pathetic for whining like little babies and hackusating everyone for no reason than the real cheaters.

This old hacker fanboi mentality is why APB dropped from 2 million active accounts to the near nothing we have now. No one logs back into a game where they have no chance to win, get totally rolled repeatedly, and serve simply to die so dweebs like you can blame them.

[Shui 225]

32 minutes ago, Rebelliousness said:

This old hacker fanboi mentality is why APB dropped from 2 million active accounts to the near nothing we have now. No one logs back into a game where they have no chance to win, get totally rolled repeatedly, and serve simply to die so dweebs like you can blame them.

No, people like you destroyed the game.
Scrubs who just suck at the game and started to hackusate everyone.
Other scrubs started to believe this shit.

Then some scrubs who believed this shit started to cheat too.
And now look where we are.
Everyone hackusates everyone. Even "good" players.
You are even worse than actual cheaters for this game.

If I would be Matt, I would fking temp ban every single one of you.

[CookiePuss 5378]

37 minutes ago, Rebelliousness said:

This is why APB dropped from 2 million active accounts to the near nothing we have now. 

That's just too funny. 

(btw the insane claim was 3 million registered accounts, but under RTW APB barely had more than 120,000 players for the just over two months it existed, that number dropped to 6,000 with the arrival of K2)

 

 

Also, Matt already said FF wasnt good enough, so I have to wonder what information you have that he doesn't?