Matchmaking and Threat

[Kewlin 692]

1 minute ago, Fubukigata said:

@Kewlin
APB Matchmaking is one of the biggest issue since the release and yes it has to be changed mainly by rank (experience) and not by threat.

 

I don't understand why people think rank based matchmaking would help anything, it literally has no correlation to skill. Changing to rank based matchmaking just entirely fucks over high ranked silvers and bronzes and gives dethreaters an easier time because they just need to make a new account and they instantly are matched with new players. (Please don't pull out the "oh but mah gear" argument, I've fucked people up plenty of times with just a stock STAR, frags, an FBW, and Field Supplier.)

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

4 minutes ago, Fubukigata said:

Hello there o/

 

 

@Kewlin
APB Matchmaking is one of the biggest issue since the release and yes it has to be changed mainly by rank (experience) and not by threat.

 

 

Oh boy. This is gonna be entertaining.

[vsb 6171]

5 minutes ago, Fubukigata said:

yes it has to be changed mainly by rank (experience) and not by threat.

no

[Fubukigata 14]

15 minutes ago, Kewlin said:

 

I don't understand why people think rank based matchmaking would help anything, it literally has no correlation to skill. Changing to rank based matchmaking just entirely fucks over high ranked silvers and bronzes and gives dethreaters an easier time because they just need to make a new account and they instantly are matched with new players. (Please don't pull out the "oh but mah gear" argument, I've fucked people up plenty of times with just a stock STAR, frags, an FBW, and Field Supplier.)

 

MMR formulas in the majorities of games lead to this :  EXP + SKILL + Waiting timmer -> Match found.

 

Segregating the disctrict by THREAT only, was a thing back in 2010 technologies restriction sure.
But it's also leaded the game into a dead END if you look arround you with all being said on this topic previously or on others.

 

I'am sure you gonna have some new stuff to bring on the table with your 8219 thread sarcastics replies.

 

Now tell me , what have you been able to bring ahead that made the game better with all those entries.

And i'am not even comming in a toxic way my dude.

 

Like come on, be for real, step back about it and be sure to ask youself  X20 times before replying again.

 

[Kewlin 692]

1 minute ago, Fubukigata said:

I'am sure you gonna have some new stuff to bring on the table with your 8219 thread sarcastics replies.

 

Now tell me , what have you been able to bring ahead that made the game better with all those entries.

And i'am not even comming in a toxic way my dude.

 

Like come on, be for real, step back about it and be sure to ask youself  X20 times before replying again.

 

 

To bring up two easy answers I discovered and pointed out that the Scoped N-TEC was using the incorrect range curves and got that fixed, and I created a thread with a poll that pointed out that people were upset at not being able to get all 3 Halloween skins, which almost certainly directly leaded to Little Orbit giving out a 3rd skin so people could get all 3.

 

If you really wanted me to think harder I could probably come up with more, but I don't really feel like it. The majority of my posts actually have not been sarcastic replies, and my reply to you wasn't sarcastic either. (In fact I'm having trouble finding what part of it you read as sarcastic.

 

 

Anyhoo, did you actually have anything to say against my points about rank matchmaking being bad, or did you just want to make erroneous claims that all of my 8219 posts are worthless?

[Fubukigata 14]

I'am not sure you took the time to ask yourself X20 times , cause it's look like you forget to point out thoses kinda things aren't you ?

 

Quote

 

Kewlin replied to ch4ncer's topic in Off-Topic Section

Please tell me this is aimed at me: I love random attacks on my character made for no reason. I literally said I liked the thread. I probably have hundreds of posts on pointless threads that I've been accused of using to up my post count. Anyways, I win, you lose, git gud scrub.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Kewlin said:

Anyhoo, did you actually have anything to say against my points about rank matchmaking being bad, or did you just want to make erroneous claims that all of my 8219 posts are worthless?

I just did , pointed out that MMR can't be relied on threat only

 

On 11/4/2018 at 5:08 AM, Kewlin said:

Yes I know the gold district is empty. I just don't understand why all the gold players show up in the silver district. It's not that I got a thing against gold players but there are quite a few that seem to be there just to get easy kills or just to sabotage a mission when your paired with them.

 

Gold district got deserted cause it was infested of cheaters according to people.

Since there it was empty and only used for arranged edgy matched for egos showtime.

 

21 minutes ago, Kewlin said:

The majority of my posts actually have not been sarcastic replies, and my reply to you wasn't sarcastic either. (In fact I'm having trouble finding what part of it you read as sarcastic.

(Please don't pull out the "oh but mah gear" argument, I've fucked people up plenty of times with just a stock STAR, frags, an FBW, and Field Supplier.)

 

 

Again i'am not gonna browse your 8220 entries but the few i've readed doesn't show you as someone constructive.

 

With that being said, let's move on the topic tho or do you have anything else to add about my Matchmaking and Threat entries ?

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Fubukigata

[Kewlin 692]

3 minutes ago, Fubukigata said:

I'am not sure you took the time to ask yourself X20 times , cause it's look like you forget to point out thoses kinda things aren't you ?

 

What? And were you for real with that quote of me that you took entirely out of context? First off, here's a link since you made the quote un-clickable:

 

Second, the thread is the last person to reply to this thread wins. It's a light-hearted thread where the point is to be the last person who posted, so since I was at that point the last person to post, I had "won," and was making a joke off of that. Please, I encourage you to read into the context of things before you take "evidence" from the find content section of a user's page.

 

Yes, I have trolled on the forums, but at least find a place where I was actually trolling or being sarcastic. Not to mention, I answered your question, you asked what I had done to help APB and I answered with the last two things I had done to help I could easily think of.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Fubukigata said:

I just did , pointed out that MMR can't be relied on threat only

 

All you did was make a statement without any evidence or even reasoning behind your opinion, that doesn't really count as making a point.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Fubukigata said:

Gold district got deserted cause it was infested of cheaters according to people.

Since there it was empty and only used for arranged edgy matched for egos showtime.

 

That's greatly over-simplifying the issue, and not really accurate. . . but I'll bite. . . what's your point?

 

11 minutes ago, Fubukigata said:

Again i'am not gonna browse your 8220 entries but the few i've readed doesn't show you as someone constructive.

 

Don't bother, I haven't really had time for the forums since they were changed over, so roughly 8,000 of my posts, and certainly most of my actually good ones are on the old forums.

 

Plus, that's hella' creepy.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Fubukigata said:

With that being said, let's move on the topic tho or do you have anything else to add about my Matchmaking and Threat entries ?

 

This is a seven page topic that's been up for almost a month: it's kinda' a dead horse at this point. TL;DR though I actually think current matchmaking is mostly fine, and we really just need a better pool of players to select from so it can have closer tolerances when making matches.

 

Plus it'd be nice if reporting dethreaters worked out better, but that realistically probably won's happen.

[Fubukigata 14]

Even trolling or without the context, git gud scrub isn't suppose to be nice .

 

Pointing out that Threat isn't enought to handle a Matchmaking is fair than enought, cause it's bring a deeper way to thing about it.

 

ps : it's already being discuss on previous topics.
exemple : Phasing , adding an estimate timmer for the queue.

 

Nah you can't be real writing a R9 player facing a R255 is fine.

 

Dethreaters are the people called for doing it on purpose to farm new players.

A report tool would add more works to the little Admin staff.

TL:DR The whole system has to be re-think

 

+ Matt reading posts where his quotted like tonight, so it's not "kinda' a dead horse at this point."

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Fubukigata

[vsb 6171]

forum argument 101

1. ignore on topic post
2. go into post history to find irrelevant quote
3. ????
4. profit

rinse and repeat for 15 minutes or until toasted a golden brown color

 

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by BXNNXD
typo

[Kewlin 692]

7 minutes ago, Fubukigata said:

Even trolling or without the context, git gud scrub isn't suppose to be nice .

 

I wasn't trolling though. . . it was a light-hearted joke thread. Not all jokes are trolling.

 

I'm going to hope for the best and assume you're not a native English speaker, but playful fighting is a very accepted form of joking in most of the English speaking world.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Fubukigata said:

Pointing out that Threat isn't enought to handle a Matchmaking is fair than enought, cause it's bring a deeper way to thing about it.

 

But rank is entirely pointless in the context of matchmaking.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Fubukigata said:

ps : it's already being discuss on previous topics.

exemple : Phasing , adding an estimate timmer for the queue.

 

Fact aside that you just tried to put a postscript note in the middle of your post, what's already been discussed elsewhere, why is that relevant, and why do you think I don't know that?

 

 

9 minutes ago, Fubukigata said:

Nah you can't be real writing a R9 player facing a R255 is fine

 

Yes, I do, because it is.

 

I'm going to assume that you're implying a system be in place where it goes by your highest character rank and not go for the low-hanging fruit of saying new characters are a thing. That aside though, first off there's nothing stopping anyone from making a new account any time they want, as many times as they want, and people do exactly that. I've had several new accounts, and as I said earlier, every time I instantly turned Gold and was playing virtually just as well as on my 195+ characters on my main account. It doesn't take much to realize that new accounts are a thing that cannot be stopped, and as such rank is an invalid point on the topic of matchmaking.

 

Second, there's a such thing as players who start off better than others, and plenty of people basically start off Gold, so maybe not a rank 9, but I see no reason a new player who's only gotten to rank 50 shouldn't be matched against mid-Gold players who are rank 255 if he is playing at the same level as them, in fact denying him the ability to play against high rank players would be forcing him into a much smaller pool of opposition, leading to him either having extremely long wait times or needing to stomp much worse players.

 

In other words. . .

 

Rank

 

has

 

no

 

place

 

in

 

matchmaking.

 

So yes, I 100% believe rank 9 players should be able to be matched against rank 255s, and I believe that's a no-brainer for more people who've been around for a while.

 

 

15 minutes ago, Fubukigata said:

Dethreaters are the people called for doing it on purpose to farm new players.

A report tool would add more works to the little Admin staff.

 

I mean, seeming as their job is literally managing the APB playerbase, I think that seems fitting?

 

 

16 minutes ago, Fubukigata said:

TL:DR The whole system has to be re-think

 

 

Why though? You still haven't even stated why it needs to be entirely reworked. Even putting rank into consideration wouldn't require a complete rework.

 

I think you need to think some of the things you say through a little longer, or maybe even more times. . . maybe twenty times?

 

 

17 minutes ago, Fubukigata said:

+ Matt reading posts where his quotted like tonight, so it's not "kinda' a dead horse at this point."

 

I was clearly responding to you asking me if I had any new points to make, and seeming as I've been in this thread almost its entire lifetime. . . yes, I will stand by the fact that me posting my own opinion (not including replying and critiquing other people's opinions) is not really all that productive.

 

 

I'll give you one more chance to reply to me, but that's it.

[AWBtwo 16]

Make match making great again. 50v50 severs-no threat level-and symbols blip for being to high of a threat to handy cap you..... please. 

[Kewlin 692]

Just now, AWBtwo said:

Make match making great again. 50v50 severs-no threat level-and symbols blip for being to high of a threat to handy cap you..... please. 

 

RP did that, and nobody really wanted to play it TBH.

[Haganu 104]

My apologies if I caused any confusion, the post in which I said going Open Conflict being better than having matchmaking was before my discussion with Kewlin, while during my discussion with Kewlin I tried to convey that current threat and player distribution is faulty. Again the flaws Kewlin pointed out regarding Open Conflict can be found just as well in current matchmaking, but that's not matchmaking's fault. If you missed the point, it's not your fault.

 

I also stated before that redistributing points would be beneficial, coupled with a reduction of threat levels per color. 

 

Even in Citadel dethreating has more or less become mandatory if you want to play a solid session in action districts outside of prime hours, so something has to be done.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Haganu

[Fubukigata 14]

6 hours ago, Kewlin said:

In other words. . .

 

Rank

 

has

 

no

 

place

 

in

 

matchmaking.

 

So yes, I 100% believe rank 9 players should be able to be matched against rank 255s, and I believe that's a no-brainer for more people who've been around for a while.

 

I respect your opinion about it but APB never been designed for competition so how matching a new player vs a veteran one who knows everything about the game, and the maps would be fair in a match ?

 

6 hours ago, Kewlin said:

I wasn't trolling though. . . it was a light-hearted joke thread. Not all jokes are trolling.

 

I'm going to hope for the best and assume you're not a native English speaker, but playful fighting is a very accepted form of joking in most of the English speaking world.

 

No i'am not a native English speaker indeed but i guess you got all i've pointed out .

You are not Kewl dude :x

Or even more jokes, you're writing too much like a Kewlin Jacket missing out the target rather than hiting the point here.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Fubukigata

[SK4LP 62]

rank have no place in matchmakin ?

like time pasted in game ? like global kill ? like number of char on account ? like bein in an "easy team"

( i ve nothing against facing low lvl newbie,,, but they should find the B key,, i need 3 or 4 of dem to not find this borrin ...   )

 

lvl up, is part of the game... and faction/clan should have more place

[Kewlin 692]

14 hours ago, Haganu said:

~snip~

 

'Sall good.  

 

 

12 hours ago, Fubukigata said:

No i'am not a native English speaker indeed but i guess you got all i've pointed out .

You are not Kewl dude :x

Or even more jokes, you're writing too much like a Kewlin Jacket missing out the target rather than hiting the point here.

 

[AsgerLund 1271]

Low rank players on motorbikes should not be matched with golds. Period.

[Revoluzzer 274]

On 11/8/2018 at 10:55 PM, Haganu said:

I wasn't there when the old threat distribution was in place, so I can't tell much about it, but the sheer simplicity of it (determining threats by win/loss) easily causes a lot of problems.

The new (current) threat distribution tried to fix that but did a horrible job. Horrible being quite an understatement, since this introduced dethreating.

The current system didn't introduce dethreating, it existed all the way back to alpha/beta. It was even easier in the original system, because you only needed a certain number of defeats to reach a certain threat level. The current system at least requires you to participate once in the mission to get enough score/participation to have it affect your threat.

 

On 11/8/2018 at 10:55 PM, Haganu said:

People go up (and down) in threat way too easily, simply because your influence on points (gaining/making the opposition gain) points is so easy.

In one afternoon I can go down from gold all the way to green threat. I've done that multiple times just for fun, doing Asylum afterwards. I can go from green to gold in an afternoon aswell. That absolutely cannot be right.

This only works if you deliberately keep your threat volatile. Under normal circumstances a player will play at the same skill level very consistently, which leads to the system slowly locking him in on a certain threat level. When a player performs at a consistent level he gains "certainty", which lowers the volatility of his threat level.

 

New players and de-threaters will easily and rapidly go up and down in threat, because their "certainty"-level is very low or zero.

 

 

On 11/13/2018 at 4:55 AM, Fubukigata said:

APB Matchmaking is one of the biggest issue since the release and yes it has to be changed mainly by rank (experience) and not by thre

Linking threat to rank doesn't make sense.

Rank is a linear progression system - you can only go up, never down

Threat is a non-linear representation system - you can go up and down

 

Every player will eventually reach the highest rank.

Not every player can reach the highest threat.

 

 

On 11/13/2018 at 6:36 AM, Kewlin said:

 

RP did that, and nobody really wanted to play it TBH.

As most things they did, however, they put very little thought and work into it. Could have been much better than what we got.

[Haganu 104]

13 hours ago, Revoluzzer said:

This only works if you deliberately keep your threat volatile. Under normal circumstances a player will play at the same skill level very consistently, which leads to the system slowly locking him in on a certain threat level. When a player performs at a consistent level he gains "certainty", which lowers the volatility of his threat level.

 

New players and de-threaters will easily and rapidly go up and down in threat, because their "certainty"-level is very low or zero.

I take it Fight Club does not affect threat volatility in any way? I don't play action districts a lot.

[Syzus 23]

The current matchmaking system has its flaws but it works. People seem to forget that out of 40 players on district, some are AFK, some are already on a mission and some are just ram raiding or even chilling.

So the low population (mainly Jericho) is behind the scenes making the matchmaking worse, and people only complain about the matchmaking. 

 

I think a new matchmaking with new calculation and/or threats would take a hella of time to be done and its not guaranteed that it will succeed. Instead of remaking everything from scratch and spend so much time and effort doing that, in my opinion the following these steps are the way to go:

 

 1 - Implement 3.5 engine with cross district matchmaking and see how the current system goes, wait for weeks or months

 2 - Does it improve any better? Patch some bugs and tweak the gain/loss threat, handle the outliers and the premade groups

 

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Syzus

[Revoluzzer 274]

On 11/17/2018 at 11:15 PM, Haganu said:

I take it Fight Club does not affect threat volatility in any way? I don't play action districts a lot.

To my knowledge Fight Club is entirely disconnected from the threat system.

[yood 345]

On 11/24/2018 at 5:26 AM, Revoluzzer said:

To my knowledge Fight Club is entirely disconnected from the threat system.

how many bronze threat players play in the club each week ?

0 

 

Edited December 1, 2018 by Yood

[safdfsgkjhdgsjkhs 140]

On 11/12/2018 at 11:00 PM, Kewlin said:

 

I don't understand why people think rank based matchmaking would help anything, it literally has no correlation to skill. Changing to rank based matchmaking just entirely fucks over high ranked silvers and bronzes and gives dethreaters an easier time because they just need to make a new account and they instantly are matched with new players. (Please don't pull out the "oh but mah gear" argument, I've fucked people up plenty of times with just a stock STAR, frags, an FBW, and Field Supplier.)

 

I'd rather face max ranks as a max rank simply for the fact that they wont be as blatant when cheating as a brand new reroll character will be.

 

and before you say no one is hacking cause of battle eye blah blah etc.... i just faced 3 players speed hacking with shaws like epic goat and his friends just last night for 3 matches in a row.

[Jazeker 1082]

3 hours ago, safdfsgkjhdgsjkhs said:

 

I'd rather face max ranks as a max rank simply for the fact that they wont be as blatant when cheating as a brand new reroll character will be.

 

and before you say no one is hacking cause of battle eye blah blah etc.... i just faced 3 players speed hacking with shaws like epic goat and his friends just last night for 3 matches in a row.

Yup. Nice alternative forum account btw. Legit people even seem scared to write this stuff here.

 

Come on LO The forums will always be the forums they have been for the last decade, but your game, these people ruin the game, giving it a little more attention might be smart. Report system sounds nice, but does it work as expected is it fast enough? People re-roll really fast, maybe validate the 18+ account requirement? These checks already exist on the net. Just random ideas and I know I know, the update is super important ... but, just take some consideration into account about which / what kind of community you want to drop your hard work on, when it's done. The game is great I'll always say that. Playing against these people isn't. And hey that's exactly what those people want. Good luck APB!

 

[Kewlin 692]

11 hours ago, safdfsgkjhdgsjkhs said:

 

I'd rather face max ranks as a max rank simply for the fact that they wont be as blatant when cheating as a brand new reroll character will be.

 

and before you say no one is hacking cause of battle eye blah blah etc.... i just faced 3 players speed hacking with shaws like epic goat and his friends just last night for 3 matches in a row.

 

First off, can we not necro this thread?

 

Second, that's a very silly and selfish reason. Are you saying it's better for lower ranked characters to have ALL of the missions with hackers?

Edited December 14, 2018 by Kewlin