New Downside Suggestion For Improved Rifling

[Kewlin 692]

35 minutes ago, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

And now the final question. I borowed these recoil numbers from another game, but they should still serve the purpose

 

What do you understand of this

 

To be fair, nobody is going to know precisely what those numbers without context, lol.

[vsb 6171]

3 hours ago, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

And now the final question. I borowed these recoil numbers from another game, but they should still serve the purpose

 

[image]

 

What do you understand of this

what are you even on about m8

 

 

Edited October 23, 2018 by BXNNXD
typo

[Kewlin 692]

22 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

what are you even on about m8

 

I'm afraid he might have smoked the weed.

[Virgil 55]

>plays game for 5 years

>recoil = bloom

 

hahaha hahaha

 

 

the people who suggest things in this community man

[LilyV3 323]

 

12 hours ago, Kewlin said:

I'm going to retract my previous statements about recoil being a bad downside for IR3, I believe that a multiplier to the gun's recoil (the same multiplier for both horizontal and vertical) would be a good downside for the mod, perhaps better than bloom per shot.

 

horizontal recoil would make the mod mostly useless, no one who wants to aim on range with a higher ROF wepaon like N-tec or Obeya would ever equip soemthign to add horizontal recoil. On the OBIR and snipers it might be not so hurting since the fire intervalls are big enough to correct it.  And pure vertical recoil, I don't I never had issues wiht vertical recoil, becuase you get sued to it. Even on the tommy afetr some practice the massive recoil wasn't much of a problem. MAYBE, if we get horizontal recoil that doesn't randomly goes left and right, and instead only in one direction (like vertical recoil). people wouldn't hate horizontal recoil as much. But then it might be something you can get used to as much as you get used to the vertical one.

 

I sometimes wonder if balancing n-tec could be done differently. One feature that makes the n-tec so strong is the massive debloom with a high accuracy making it extremely well at aiming on range.  We had a few wepaons with a ramp up ability, like, the longer you shoot the less extreme does feature X get.

It would be interesting if the n-tec could have a higher initial bloom, which then after a few shots gets less bloom per shot. It would increase the ttk of the N-tec on longer ranges as it starts to get inaccurate after only 1 or2 shots. While on medium ranges 30-40 this might still not be too inaccurate to hit targets. Or maybe IR could have such a feature as well, it would then affect slower shooting guns less than fast shooting ones.  But I think that ramp up feature stuff was tied to fully automatic guns only because the game took the shot sequence from full auto shots and you could break the sequence by tapfiring.  Can anyone remember which gun(s) that was?

Edited October 23, 2018 by LilyV3

[Excalibur! 207]

6 hours ago, Virgil said:

>plays game for 5 years

>recoil = bloom

 

hahaha hahaha

 

 

the people who suggest things in this community man

And then they are surprised why everything goes to shit. "Listen to the community" they said.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Excalibur!

[Kewlin 692]

10 hours ago, LilyV3 said:

horizontal recoil would make the mod mostly useless, no one who wants to aim on range with a higher ROF wepaon like N-tec or Obeya would ever equip soemthign to add horizontal recoil. On the OBIR and snipers it might be not so hurting since the fire intervalls are big enough to correct it.  And pure vertical recoil, I don't I never had issues wiht vertical recoil, becuase you get sued to it. Even on the tommy afetr some practice the massive recoil wasn't much of a problem. MAYBE, if we get horizontal recoil that doesn't randomly goes left and right, and instead only in one direction (like vertical recoil). people wouldn't hate horizontal recoil as much. But then it might be something you can get used to as much as you get used to the vertical one.

 

I'm purely talking about multiplying the entire recoil pattern instead of just vertical or horizontal, so it wouldn't dramatically increase horizontal recoil on guns without much, such as the OBIR, N-TEC, or CR762. If you were using it on an AMG or something, sure, it'd be an issue, but I can't say I think it shouldn't be.

 

 

10 hours ago, LilyV3 said:

I sometimes wonder if balancing n-tec could be done differently. One feature that makes the n-tec so strong is the massive debloom with a high accuracy making it extremely well at aiming on range.  We had a few wepaons with a ramp up ability, like, the longer you shoot the less extreme does feature X get.

It would be interesting if the n-tec could have a higher initial bloom, which then after a few shots gets less bloom per shot. It would increase the ttk of the N-tec on longer ranges as it starts to get inaccurate after only 1 or2 shots. While on medium ranges 30-40 this might still not be too inaccurate to hit targets. Or maybe IR could have such a feature as well, it would then affect slower shooting guns less than fast shooting ones.  But I think that ramp up feature stuff was tied to fully automatic guns only because the game took the shot sequence from full auto shots and you could break the sequence by tapfiring.  Can anyone remember which gun(s) that was?

 

High initial bloom that decreases over time would be a mechanic to encourage full-auto, which is the exact opposite of what we want for any of this TBH, especially on the N-TEC. At that point IMO you might as well just delete the N-TEC (Also, going from linear bloom, to increasing bloom, to decreasing bloom on the N-TEC is a bit ridiculous IMO.)

 

It could be a cool feature on an LMG or SMG I guess, but nothing else IMO.

[Tenginima 74]

22 hours ago, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

And now the final question. I borowed these recoil numbers from another game, but they should still serve the purpose

What do you understand of this

I understand that each are multipliers for a type of recoil for a type of gun in a type of shooter I suppose. Recoil up is upwards, i.e  Vertical recoil, and Left and Right are modifiers for how the gun jumps to left and right per shot. I assume this is a type of recoil pattern ish system, such as CS:GO.

[LilyV3 323]

13 hours ago, Kewlin said:

 

I'm purely talking about multiplying the entire recoil pattern instead of just vertical or horizontal, so it wouldn't dramatically increase horizontal recoil on guns without much, such as the OBIR, N-TEC, or CR762. If you were using it on an AMG or something, sure, it'd be an issue, but I can't say I think it shouldn't be.

 

 

 

High initial bloom that decreases over time would be a mechanic to encourage full-auto, which is the exact opposite of what we want for any of this TBH, especially on the N-TEC. At that point IMO you might as well just delete the N-TEC (Also, going from linear bloom, to increasing bloom, to decreasing bloom on the N-TEC is a bit ridiculous IMO.)

 

It could be a cool feature on an LMG or SMG I guess, but nothing else IMO.

 

Well the n-tec is a full auto gun by design the game mechanics just don't support this role and every decent user uses the n-tec like a semi automatic. I sometimes just think the N-tec as what it is would make mroe sense when being a bit like the aces rifle: a gun you fire in some autobursts with the option to go full auto on closer ranges. But with a niche longer than the Aces rifle. Because honestly, the n-tec plays very much like the obeya on range but enjoys quite a lot advantages. This is why the Obeya is so underused in comparison as the obeya has a smaller niche but a lot more downsides outside it's niche.

[Shui 225]

On 10/23/2018 at 5:45 AM, Virgil said:

>plays game for 5 years

>recoil = bloom

 

hahaha hahaha

 

the people who suggest things in this community man

ikr

The most funny part is they think they are good ...

23 hours ago, Excalibur! said:

And then they are surprised why everything goes to shit. "Listen to the community" they said.

Bruh, you are one of them.

No offence hehe

[Excalibur! 207]

1 minute ago, Halelulia said:

ikr

The most funny part is they think they are good ...

Bruh, you are one of them.

No offence hehe

You are secretely one of us too, dont be shy.

[Kewlin 692]

7 hours ago, LilyV3 said:

Well the n-tec is a full auto gun by design the game mechanics just don't support this role and every decent user uses the n-tec like a semi automatic. I sometimes just think the N-tec as what it is would make mroe sense when being a bit like the aces rifle: a gun you fire in some autobursts with the option to go full auto on closer ranges. But with a niche longer than the Aces rifle. Because honestly, the n-tec plays very much like the obeya on range but enjoys quite a lot advantages. This is why the Obeya is so underused in comparison as the obeya has a smaller niche but a lot more downsides outside it's niche.

 

The last major N-TEC changes were all designed to make the gun better at shooting in short bursts, as described here: https://forums-old.gamersfirst.com/topic/382883-weapon-rebalance-description-ntec/

 

So you're kinda' wrong, the gun, as it is, was designed to be shot in bursts, which is what it's currently best at in the majority of ranges you actually should use it in. This falls in line with actual assault rifles BTW, which are generally shot semi-auto or in burst, as they're not really designed to be shot in sustained fully automatic fire.

 

Additionally, as I've said many times before, instead of entirely reworking a weapon to function completely differently, it's better to just make a new gun and nerf or buff the old one if necessary.

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

22 hours ago, Tenginima said:

I understand that each are multipliers for a type of recoil for a type of gun in a type of shooter I suppose. Recoil up is upwards, i.e  Vertical recoil, and Left and Right are modifiers for how the gun jumps to left and right per shot. I assume this is a type of recoil pattern ish system, such as CS:GO.

The true final question. Just speeding things up cause when it comes to conveying my thoughts into words, I suck. For the recoil up value 0.36, would you say that exact number is applied to the gun every shot, or a random number between 0 and 0.36 is applied to the gun every shot

[Tenginima 74]

3 minutes ago, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

The true final question. Just speeding things up cause when it comes to conveying my thoughts into words, I suck. For the recoil up value 0.36, would you say that exact number is applied to the gun every shot, or a random number between 0 and 0.36 is applied to the gun every shot

Depends on the coding. Could be a modifier like 0 - 100 so that 0 is the first bullet, 0.36 is the last. And it could be a per shot modifier. I cannot say for sure, as it is highly out of context I am afraid.

[CommandantSteele 52]

If we're going to make IR and HB polar opposites, then you'd need to change HB.

 

Remove the damage reduction from HB and instead reduce the overall range.

 

Now IR and HB can be polar opposites: IR gives you longer range but more bloom to deal with, HB gives you less bloom/recoil but at the cost of range.

 

I don't think this would pan out too well though. HB would probably become insanity broken.

[Nite 261]

On 10/21/2018 at 7:34 PM, CookiePuss said:

random damage

random damage

random damage

random damage

random damage

random damage

random damage

random damage

random damage

random damage

random damage

random damage

random damage

random damage

random damage

random damage

 

 

I'm just here to find out, what is this gif, where did it come from, how does it work - I'm amazed and mystified

[vsb 6171]

44 minutes ago, Nite said:

 

I'm just here to find out, what is this gif, where did it come from, how does it work - I'm amazed and mystified

looks like its from 'Kingsman' where the big bad guy's plans come to fruition 

 

blood and gore from actual head explosions may have been more than a pg13 film could take

 

 

Edited October 25, 2018 by BXNNXD
typo

[Kewlin 692]

2 hours ago, Freewind said:

If we're going to make IR and HB polar opposites, then you'd need to change HB.

 

Remove the damage reduction from HB and instead reduce the overall range.

 

Now IR and HB can be polar opposites: IR gives you longer range but more bloom to deal with, HB gives you less bloom/recoil but at the cost of range.

 

I don't think this would pan out too well though. HB would probably become insanity broken.

 

But why?

[CookiePuss 5377]

10 hours ago, Nite said:

 

I'm just here to find out, what is this gif, where did it come from, how does it work - I'm amazed and mystified

 

9 hours ago, BXNNXD said:

looks like its from 'Kingsman' where the big bad guy's plans come to fruition 

 

blood and gore from actual head explosions may have been more than a pg13 film could take

 

 

Yep, from 2014's Kingsman: The Secret Service. Shout out to giphy for that one.

[LilyRain 671]

Focusing so much on making improved rifling terrible at close-range is not healthy. Meta CQC weapons will be dominant at close range regardless. Nerfing ir at close range will indirectly make these weapons more forgiving against non-CQC weapons, reducing variety in weapon choices and boring people away from the game even more.

 

Although I do personally agree with the argument that every mod should have a downside (including perfecting ir), changing one thing at a time will never ever work. The entire system needs to be revamped at once for an effective refresh/step-forward. Even though many would disagree, the best move at the moment is to do nothing and leave improved rifling alone.

----------------------------------------

If you are a mod-downside warrior, consider adding headache on Dev-minds to:

 

Finish G1's work towards adding downsides to the somewhat game-breaking, ridiculous yellow-consumable mods. Epinephrine injector has downsides, but ALL the rest do not... The "Mobile Cover" shield literally makes APB a mini version of Fortnite, because spawning a shield out of nowhere is somehow good to the game (having it ready for deployment doesn't slow you down like Kevlar does for example, you can just pull it out of the blue).... Or magically Satchel Charging a vehicle that is about to ram you is fair to the Driver (I used this strategy myself. I love it but it is cheap)… or the potentially infinite grenade-spam from the "Resupply Box"....

 

Orange mods: Spotter, the 'if I see you, temporary wall-hack' has absolutely no downsides whatsoever (just another mod that makes life easier for end-gamers, simply because G1 had no better ideas to give for R255 characters)... Radar Jammer is the same, it doesn't add HUD-limitation(s) after jamming Opponents for example.. Blowtorch rate of repair was argued to be 3 times faster than a repair-specialized Ga5 station (wow..), which CAN make the truck hold mission impossible, especially to non end-game players (and make gameplay unrealistic overall). Heck it can be used when leaning outside a passenger-window AND cools down in half a minute! *faints* (even the much less-impactful nitrous mod cools down in 2 minutes.. 1 min for premium players)

 

Blue mods: Players do complain a lot about spawn points (even Veterans).. Although Car Spawner makes cars visible to Opponents, it can still make a lot of difference every now and then. Perhaps give it a spawning-duration in which the mod dies after some time till the car is respawned? No, it is just there passively so long the car is not smoking.... Valzipram tablets has 0% downsides... Car Surfer has 0% downsides (unless you wish to be exposed to accurate snipers)...

 

High-burn fuel has doesn't impede a car's acceleration/top-speed for instance, but can still make Players use Espacios as shields, hug them and have baby-smooth-skin after the explosion.... The list is just too long.

 

I encourage you to spare the Devs some internal, lengthy discussions that plans for lesser mod-changes that will only make metas (or certain gameplay styles) more dominant. Please do let the Devs focus on major things such as the long-awaited Engine upgrade for instance and whatever they are secretly working on for the future. Balancing mods can follow up later

[vsb 6171]

i was with you for a bit, but 

 

28 minutes ago, Lily Rain said:

magically Satchel Charging a vehicle that is about to ram you

this is far less viable than just cooking a concussion grenade

 

26 minutes ago, Lily Rain said:

Radar Jammer is the same, it doesn't add HUD-limitation(s) after jamming Opponents for example.

radar jammer highlights you on radar to anyone outside its range (50m iirc)

 

27 minutes ago, Lily Rain said:

Perhaps give it a spawning-duration in which the mod dies after some time till the car is respawned? No, it is just there passively so long the car is not smoking

car spawner has a 120s cooldown per player

 

28 minutes ago, Lily Rain said:

Car Surfer has 0% downsides (unless you wish to be exposed to accurate snipers)

this is a pretty huge downside

 

 

[LilyRain 671]

54 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

this is far less viable than just cooking a concussion grenade

I specifically mentioned that the car is about to ram the player. A concussion takes 4 seconds to cook and will signal the driver to undergo evasive maneuvers. Plus, other grenades have their uses. Assuming everyone plays with concussions all the time isn't the way to go. Satchel Charge however works perfectly and much faster in disguise. Play unaware as you run away, secretly looking 180° backwards, playing prey to hunt the hunter. Can be used in parallel with any type of grenade and is designed to be a monster against vehicles (opinions vary).

 

54 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

radar jammer highlights you on radar to anyone outside its range (50m iirc)

True, but that is not a HUD-limitation on the User nor is aggressive by any means. Trading 1 Friendly's position beyond 50m to Jam an entire team where it counts is far from being a hindrance (opinions vary).

 

54 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

car spawner has a 120s cooldown per player

True, but this is a team game. Across an entire team, this can be dealt with. Not to mention the minimum 35m distance to enemy restriction is too lenient (opinions vary).

 

54 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

this is a pretty huge downside

Surfers wouldn't let this happen unless they are exposing/asking to be shot. They can just jump off to the nearest Civilian vehicle or cover. It isn't exactly a downside. They can also snipe/shoot back (opinions vary).

--------------------------------------------------------------

What you are saying is absolutely true in given circumstances but you are missing the point. Discussions like these are debatable because they are purely situational. The same goes for improved rifling. If we are to continue bugging Devs over mod-adjustments that have workarounds as you suggested, we'll simply end up slowing progression towards milestones.

[Kewlin 692]

2 hours ago, Lily Rain said:

~snip~

 

Your comprehension of what a downside is and how they work is sadly very low, just F.Y.I., for example the fact that you think Epinephrine has a downside like mods are supposed to.

[LilyRain 671]

19 minutes ago, Kewlin said:

 

Your comprehension of what a downside is and how they work is sadly very low, just F.Y.I., for example the fact that you think Epinephrine has a downside like mods are supposed to.

I can sadly say the same thing towards your reading comprehension. You just missed the entire point of what I have said, even though it was re-stated prior to your reply..

 

Epinephrine is a consumable, it indeed can not be directly compared to a mod. Fortunately, it comes with a cost unlike other consumables that makes them more exploitable like the supply box. Analogously, there are mods that could be adjusted for the better, including improved rifling.

 

Point is that there are too many things to adjust in the game. Attempting to focus on and perfect something to your 'supposed' liking after a reverted change (which doesn't even harm due to it not being meta) is simply counter productive and uncalled for at the current time.

[Kewlin 692]

3 minutes ago, Lily Rain said:

~snip~

 

Nope, it doesn't actually come at a cost more than any other consumable.

 

Also, if you are in fact saying IR isn't meta, that's quite frankly hilarious.