Weapon Balance OTW Tweaks - A/B Testing Values.

[Desmila 13]

Does anyone know which Anubis plays better? Cuz It is honestly hard to tell which one is better, the fire rate boost isn't really noticeable since i still end up jamming it even doe I know it's pattern and played the gun for cpl years.

The fact that the scope in delay has been removed is fcking great, but please add a vertical prong or something to the crosshair - it's bloody hard to see if you're actually on the target.

However I think the whole "Hyperion Accuracy over time" mechanic that is similar to BL2 is pointless, just give it the accuracy of a normal DMR or something, No point making my first 2-3 shots RNG before it starts to actually make a noticeable change to the crosshair (What is notice is that the first 2-3 shots bloom a slight bit, before actually gaining accuracy).

Edited August 2, 2018 by Desmila

[TheMessiah 430]

So i watch Kempington tests and nfas is 3 shot - 8m which is not bad.Although i want my favorite weapon to make like 3 shots kill in 10 m..after all i saw csg i think to make 2 shots kill in 19m

Edited August 2, 2018 by BingoBookBG

[Tobii 346]

1 hour ago, LO_Beastie said:

Bear in mind the first pellet will be PelletsHitNum 0, so the first two hits will always do the same damage.

This part is confusing me a bit.
I am assuming that PelletHitNumber 0 is to be ignore since that would mean no pellets hit the target?
So the formula would spit out 70 for 0 and 1 but o is to be ignored?

Unless you mean that the first two pellets that hit both do 70 damage? But that would throw off the total from what I could tell.

I am guessing that the left one is the correct since that seem to match your graph as well.

[Beastie 177]

Apologies, I mispoke. Your last post is correct. I'll edit mine.

[Tobii 346]

4 minutes ago, LO_Beastie said:

Apologies, I mispoke. Your last post is correct. I'll edit mine.

Took me a bit to figure it out at first

[Tobii 346]

I managed to put this together.






Thanks for the help.

[Deftonez 125]

Great work lads

[Kewlin 692]

8 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Why is there even discussion about how to fix the current overtuning of the shotguns? The solution is extremely simple. Reduce the effective range on the traditional shotguns (JG, CSG, Strife, NFAS, True Ogre) to 5m, with the dropoff bottoming out at 15m with a 0% minimum damage percentage (in other words, they can't do damage past 15m). This allows the current changes to keep them completely consistent within their intended use case (point blank CQC and corner popping), while also fixing the current range problem. Everything is solved, with no downside.

There's more than one way to skin a cat dude, and what Tobii and I are saying is just as simple to be perfectly honest, it's just a different take. I personally do not think your idea is as good because it would make the gun way harder to predict due to an extremely short min dropoff range, plus having 0% damage at 15m would literally make it worse than the current CSG.

Basically, needing to hit fewer pellets within 5m is barely even a buff, because the spread on the CSG is already so tight, and the range dropoff you're suggesting would make the CSG no longer capable of 2-shotting past 7.3m, which is horrible, horrible range. Additionally, I've tested it before and on live the CSG can currently 4-shot players easily up to 20m, or 25m with IR3, which isn't half bad and is. . . much better than doing 0 damage at 20m.

So the only thing your suggested changes would do is effectively remove the CSG, and probably all other shotguns, from the game.

[Speedz 147]

Hello @LO_Beastie

 

this might be a bit offtopic since this thread is more about the current changes to the weapons on otw, but something that always interested me is how the curves for damage drop offs are being calculated. A quick example with the formula would be very appreciated, in case you got some time ofcourse.
 

[Tobii 346]

15 minutes ago, Speedz said:

Hello @LO_Beastie

 

this might be a bit offtopic since this thread is more about the current changes to the weapons on otw, but something that always interested me is how the curves for damage drop offs are being calculated. A quick example with the formula would be very appreciated, in case you got some time ofcourse.
 

This

[Beastie 177]

17 hours ago, Speedz said:

Hello @LO_Beastie

 

this might be a bit offtopic since this thread is more about the current changes to the weapons on otw, but something that always interested me is how the curves for damage drop offs are being calculated. A quick example with the formula would be very appreciated, in case you got some time ofcourse.
 

It varies per weapon. A lot of our weapons don't use effective range curves at all, and these just lerp between the minimum and maximum percentages over the distance. Weapons with effective range curves aren't calculated with a formula, but instead use Unreal's curve system to physically draw points on a graph. We define an X/Y point and a tangent, and Unreal stitches them together to make a curve.
For the most part we use flat tangents (they're normalised, so we don't specify any weighting), so the curves tend to be simple ease in/outs. This results in a more gradual ease at the start and end of the damage reduction, so you don't feel such an immediate impact when your weapon reaches its effective range limit. Here's the assault rifle's curve as an example:



The exception to this is the rifles, which tend to have a more exponential drop off (ease in, but drop more dramatically out), like this:


Note the little white handles to allow us to change the tangents. 

So to answer your question, there's unfortunately not an easy formula I can give you to calculate range drop-off as they're tweaked by hand (and I'm not aware of what system Unreal uses to generate these). The shotguns all linearly interpolate btw.

 

[Tobii 346]

8 minutes ago, LO_Beastie said:

 

This is kinda what we figured and most likely why we don't see any stats in regards to these curves.
Thanks for the info!

[Speedz 147]

13 minutes ago, LO_Beastie said:

<snip>
 

Thank you! 

[Tobii 346]

@LO_Beastie @MattScott is there any chance you can update the OTW forum part?
Seeing as it will most likely be used more it would be nice to have a place where we can talk about the changes.
"General" might not be the right place for that...

Something like this maybe?


Not if you want to keep it civil anyways.. Edited August 3, 2018 by Tobii

[N66 97]

These changes seem to be good, hopefully there will be a lot more choices to play with due to balance, but I don't see how the NHVR chanages will fix the close range capability, when in most cases the player crouches and gains full accuracy (correct me if I'm wrong) without zooming in, he'll still be able to do devastating damage with it, and the quick switching is not affected either..

[Noob_Guardian 417]

On 8/1/2018 at 1:20 PM, Frosi said:

its still possible to effectively do so by using cover such as

On 8/1/2018 at 3:00 PM, Tobii said:

Just tested the CSG just for the sake of it.. And I feel like the biggest issue now is the distance.
Right now you can 2 shot up to 18 meter! 18! METERS! With a shotgun... Oof.
And I believe we managed to 3 shot up to 25-30 meters.

Problem is that you have to find a place where it can be in the same spot as the OCA but not be A LOT better.
OCA has a TTK of 0.64 while the CSG is 0.68 if you get the PERFECT fire rate.
But the OCA can't corner pop like the CSG can, so in a one on one battle the CSG is most likely to win because you expose yourself less compared to the OCA.
If that is the case, the TTK will go up quite a bit for the OCA.

It's hard to make up something that is realistic, but I did make a graph to show some possible changes to the CSG dropoff that would keep it in it's own place. e.g. super CQC.

This would make the CSG VERY dangerous in CQC, even against the OCA.
But at distances past the 10 meter mark the OCA will slowly gain the upper hand. As it should be?

I am in no shape or form a master when it comes to balancing. I would personally to it over multiple revision to find the sweet spot.
So take this with a grain of salt.

A shotgun is hard to balance, especially in a 3rd person game where you would usually have the upper hand against pushing enemies.
If you have any better suggestion @ me.

CSG should be good up to 12? ish meters? 8 for sure 2 shot, maybe 10 not 18. Strife should be roughly 15m-20m though for its 1.25 ttk which is roughly 3 shots.

Shotguns could use some more tweaks but i hope its good.

[thelinux 51]

Thanks a lot for this. 

[Nickolai 206]

Shotguns feel great and consistent for once. I will take the better hit reg and damage over the slightly reduced firing rate any day.

Great job guys!