Rather than nerf the ntec, just fix IR.

[CookiePuss 5382]

2 hours ago, Crusade said:

2 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Wait, so we arent friends?
Lemme get some rest and Ill see if I can make a video for you after.
Honestly though this is pretty common knowledge. 

Make me a video on how the Yukon is broken while you're at it. Although I know that's not as important.

Uh oh, I think the Yukon is garbage.
Wanna buy one? I wanna unload the ones I have before the crybabies get it nerfed.

[Ashley 19]

Both Improved Rifling and Cooling Jacket affect the maximum accuracy loss (bloom) and not per-shot bloom. The downside is more noticeable on weapons where the maximum bloom is closer to the minimum bloom like the ATAC, which reaches maximum bloom within 2 shots, than it is with the N-TEC that takes 6 shots to hit max bloom; however, it is still a downside and it's definitely present and not broken.

[Similarities 226]

1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

Uh oh, I think the Yukon is garbage.
Wanna buy one? I wanna unload the ones I have before the crybabies get it nerfed.

l'll take one off you for free. 

[Noob_Guardian 418]

5 hours ago, Crusade said:

I'm going to ignore the talk about the other mods, because this thread is about IR3 specifically. I disagree that the downsides are minimal. Being able to CQC spray-down is one of the strengths of having an NTEC, and reducing that effectiveness cuts into the versatility of the weapon for some extra range.

Now, with that being said. This thread is saying that there is absolutely no downside to IR3 because it's broken and doesn't work properly. I was originally saying that, no it's not broken. 

I already felt like I was taking a lot of extra time to prove you wrong. Could you at least acknowledge that this mod isn't broken?

People use hS3 on ntec, cqc spraydowns point blank are not happening out of mm, and in MM having that "oca level bloom" isn't going to prevent it from not being versatile for that purpose in cqc either.

If you havn't noticed, two of the primary mods for NTEC is Hunting sight 3 and Improved Rifling 3, if they made the weapon worse and less versatile, people wouldn't be using it, especially the pro players who have played for years.

The moment HB took 1 shot extra to kill with on ntec, everyone stopped using it, if IR3 had any noticable impact on the weapon, it would be dropped as well. But IR3 only effects maximum bloom, and as such, at least 70-90% of the time the mods downside it has little to no effect on gameplay.

If it increased bloom per shot, that would be a different issue. Edited July 24, 2018 by Noob_Guardian

[Hexerin 1142]

Improved Rifling isn't bugged. How do people still fail to understand this? It's so incredibly easy to test as well, as @Crusade has already shown.

That being said, the downside it has is completely irrelevant for 90% of the guns that want to use it... so yea.

[Slickmund 58]

So IR3 only affects the maximum bloom in accuracy you can get on it? That would be too little of a downside especially compared to the other barrel mods, I think.
Ill have to inform my teammate of this though, he needs to slap IR3 back on it.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Slickmund

[Karyon 14]

2 hours ago, Ashley said:

Both Improved Rifling and Cooling Jacket affect the maximum accuracy loss (bloom) and not per-shot bloom. The downside is more noticeable on weapons where the maximum bloom is closer to the minimum bloom like the ATAC, which reaches maximum bloom within 2 shots, than it is with the N-TEC that takes 6 shots to hit max bloom; however, it is still a downside and it's definitely present and not broken.

I don't think CJ and IR have the same downside, CJ has increased per shot bloom and IR has increased maximum possible bloom.

That's why CJ and IR are both good on NTEC, it has comparitively fast bloom recovery and low bloom delay so IR's downside is not really encountered and CJ's downside at longer range is very small if you tap fire right.

The only time IR's downside actually makes a difference is for corner jumping, and even then you only do that at close range so it's not that big of a deal.

[Hexerin 1142]

Cooling Jacket does, in fact, share the same downside as Improved Rifling. In fact, it decreases the top-end accuracy even further than Improved Rifling does. Cooling Jacket also increases the rate of bloom per shot as well, causing a double negative from a single effect.

 

Edited July 25, 2018 by Hexerin

[Karyon 14]

52 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Cooling Jacket does, in fact, share the same downside as Improved Rifling. In fact, it increases the top-end accuracy even further than Improved Rifling does. Cooling Jacket also increases the rate of bloom per shot as well, causing a double negative from a single effect.

Now that you mention it, I can remember seeing someone test CJ and that ended up being the case; I stand corrected.

[Hexerin 1142]

10 minutes ago, Karyon said:

Now that you mention it, I can remember seeing someone test CJ and that ended up being the case; I stand corrected.

Modless, Improved Rifling, Cooling Jacket. Full auto with Euryale.



As you can see, Cooling Jacket is really fucked.

[Noob_Guardian 418]

14 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Modless, Improved Rifling, Cooling Jacket. Full auto with Euryale.



As you can see, Cooling Jacket is really fucked.

barely noticable with IR but definitely with CJ, buuut the ttk decrease is somewhat worth it sometimes.

[Ashley 19]

51 minutes ago, Karyon said:

I don't think CJ and IR have the same downside, CJ has increased per shot bloom and IR has increased maximum possible bloom.

Cooling Jacket has the same downside as Improved Rifling in max bloom, but the side effect of having an increased firerate is that there's less time for bloom to recover, leading to effectively "more" bloom per shot. For example, on the N-TEC it blooms 0.65 with each shot and normally recovers 0.35 by the next shot, but with CJ3 it only has time to recover 0.3, leading to the next shot being 0.05 more inaccurate than standard despite no direct change to bloom per shot.

[Hexerin 1142]

1 hour ago, Noob_Guardian said:

barely noticable with IR but definitely with CJ, buuut the ttk decrease is somewhat worth it sometimes.

On the guns you'd normally slot CJ into (primarily CQC weapons like SMGs), the decrease to top-end accuracy is never really noticed because they generally regain their accuracy faster than it blooms.

[GhosT 1301]

15 hours ago, NotZombieBiscuit said:

Or buff almost every other mid range AR?

Buffing all weapons to be as easy as the N-TEC would make APB boring as hell.

[crusade 89]

9 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Uh oh, I think the Yukon is garbage.
Wanna buy one? I wanna unload the ones I have before the crybabies get it nerfed.

I thought it was common knowledge that a secondary wasn't supposed to kill faster than an LMG. Your opinion is irrelevant.

6 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

People use hS3 on ntec, cqc spraydowns point blank are not happening out of mm, and in MM having that "oca level bloom" isn't going to prevent it from not being versatile for that purpose in cqc either.

If you havn't noticed, two of the primary mods for NTEC is Hunting sight 3 and Improved Rifling 3, if they made the weapon worse and less versatile, people wouldn't be using it, especially the pro players who have played for years.

The moment HB took 1 shot extra to kill with on ntec, everyone stopped using it, if IR3 had any noticable impact on the weapon, it would be dropped as well. But IR3 only effects maximum bloom, and as such, at least 70-90% of the time the mods downside it has little to no effect on gameplay.

If it increased bloom per shot, that would be a different issue.

Obviously point blank you wouldn't MM. But there is a sweet spot where it is necessary around 7-15 meters if you have a corner, and using MM at that range without a corner is also possible if you are feeling confident in your tracking.

And, I don't see your point, make all red mods nonviable on the NTEC? I personally feel like IR3 is a stronger mod on the Carbine, OSCAR, and RFP.

[Karyon 14]

5 hours ago, Ashley said:

8 hours ago, Karyon said:

I don't think CJ and IR have the same downside, CJ has increased per shot bloom and IR has increased maximum possible bloom.

Cooling Jacket has the same downside as Improved Rifling in max bloom, but the side effect of having an increased firerate is that there's less time for bloom to recover, leading to effectively "more" bloom per shot. For example, on the N-TEC it blooms 0.65 with each shot and normally recovers 0.35 by the next shot, but with CJ3 it only has time to recover 0.3, leading to the next shot being 0.05 more inaccurate than standard despite no direct change to bloom per shot.

It's logical that increased fire rate leads to less bloom recovery time, but are you saying that CJ has no effect on bloom magnitude itself? e.g. a full auto stock NTEC would have the same bloom characteristics as a CJ3 NTEC tap fired at the same fire rate.

It seems you have different opinion to @Hexerin on this.

[dett2 64]

I think should not nerf modification.
It affects all the weapon , it will be huge change.
IR3 is good for allmost guns.
but its not means N-TEC need nerf.
N-TEC IR3 are fine i think.

[Gizzly 37]

21 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

For real, shits been broken for how long now? 
Making that 7m extra ntec range have a downside seems like a good "balance" to me.

So nerfing a mod you use on every other AR aswell will suddenly make the most broken weapon in the game balanced, even though every weapon that's supposed to compete will receive the same nerf? SMH

Just nerf the effective range of n-tec by 5-7m and bam the weapon is kinda balanced. Edited July 25, 2018 by Gizzly

[Sniperturtle 65]

[Noob_Guardian 418]

20 hours ago, Hexerin said:

On the guns you'd normally slot CJ into (primarily CQC weapons like SMGs), the decrease to top-end accuracy is never really noticed because they generally regain their accuracy faster than it blooms.

Sadly, its very noticable if you full auto since the SMG rework.

17 hours ago, Crusade said:

I thought it was common knowledge that a secondary wasn't supposed to kill faster than an LMG. Your opinion is irrelevant.

Obviously point blank you wouldn't MM. But there is a sweet spot where it is necessary around 7-15 meters if you have a corner, and using MM at that range without a corner is also possible if you are feeling confident in your tracking.

And, I don't see your point, make all red mods nonviable on the NTEC? I personally feel like IR3 is a stronger mod on the Carbine, OSCAR, and RFP.

No, the point would be to rebalance IR3 and 3PS3 to have more noticable downsides, considering that IR3's doesn't even have too much of a downside in comparison to other mods and their downsides, and 3ps3 has 0 downside at all. Edited July 25, 2018 by Noob_Guardian

[Percocet 194]

On 7/24/2018 at 11:29 AM, Crusade said:

Alright bud. This is kinda shoddy, but I think it's apparent enough the crosshair is bigger. Just for the record, the modifier essentially raises the cap on the max possible bloom.

This image is WITH IR3.

This image is WITHOUT IR3.

this games bloom is relevant to wear bullets go 

[crusade 89]

7 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

No, the point would be to rebalance IR3 and 3PS3 to have more noticable downsides, considering that IR3's doesn't even have too much of a downside in comparison to other mods and their downsides, and 3ps3 has 0 downside at all.

I wouldn't be opposed to tweaking these two mods, but I feel that there are bigger balance issues than IR3 and 3PS3.

[Noob_Guardian 418]

On 7/26/2018 at 2:41 AM, Crusade said:

On 7/25/2018 at 7:25 PM, Noob_Guardian said:

No, the point would be to rebalance IR3 and 3PS3 to have more noticable downsides, considering that IR3's doesn't even have too much of a downside in comparison to other mods and their downsides, and 3ps3 has 0 downside at all.

I wouldn't be opposed to tweaking these two mods, but I feel that there are bigger balance issues than IR3 and 3PS3.

and i would agree.