Little Orbit, has the team had any discussions about Less than Lethal gameplay?

[Hexerin 1140]

Or is this something that hasn't even been brought up yet? I ask this not seeking any details, just out of simple curiosity about whether or not the team has any interest whatsoever in reworking the entire system so that it can be in a healthy, and competitive state. As it stands the weaponry is universally, exceptionally weak (with one exception that is essentially a mechanical exploit), and is only actually viable if you're fighting people much lower skill than yourself.

[Fyre 38]

Pretty sure it's weak by design to compensate for the on-kill reward.

[vsb 6171]

Just now, Fyre said:

Pretty sure it's weak by design to compensate for the on-kill reward.

this

also if ltl was actually competitive i'd be pretty seriously in favor of giving criminals some sort of equivalent mechanic

[Hexerin 1140]

41 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

also if ltl was actually competitive i'd be pretty seriously in favor of giving criminals some sort of equivalent mechanic

I mean, that would be the ultimate goal. It's an extremely fun gameplay style (when it works), which is why I've always been a staunch advocate for it being improved.

[Goldtiger 133]

1 hour ago, BXNNXD said:

this

also if ltl was actually competitive i'd be pretty seriously in favor of giving criminals some sort of equivalent mechanic

Criminals using zip-ties to "hostage up" enforcers would be the best, most logical equivalent. They would just need their own access to LTL weapons, or even their own unique LTL weapons. Edited July 24, 2018 by Goldtiger

[Aeronaut 647]

recent transcripts from meetings @ little orbit HQ

 

F*CK F*CK F*CK F*CK WHY DID WE BUY THIS GAME?

 

WHO IS DDOSING US?

 

WHOSE CUBICLE IS THIS AND WHY IS THERE A USB DRIVE IN A RANDOM CUBICLE CALLED "RACING DISTRICT"?

 

WAIT, THEY ONLY HAD THE TRIAL VERSION OF UNREAL ENGINE?

 

WHO IS NEUME AND WHAT IS A WATERFRONT? (i can't find the interview anymore?)

 

WHAT IS FALLEN EARTH AND WHY DIDNT THEY PAY US TO DISCARD IT?

 

WHY ARE THERE CHARTS AND CHARTS OF JOKERY MYSTERY BOX SALES POSTED UP AROUND THE OFFICE?

 

WHY IS THEIR OFFICE LOCATED IN A SHOPPING PLAZA?

 

WHAT'S THIS LIST LABELED "DO NOT BAN $$$$" (nah I highly doubtful they did this)

 

IT SMELLS LIKE HORSE MANUERE IN HERE.

 

APB VENDETTA? HAHAHAHAHA.

 

WHAT IS THIS "AUGUST 19TH?"

 

WHAT IS THIS PDF LABELED "YUKON IS NOT BUGGED - PLEASE IGNORE"

 

"APB COLLIDES WITH GTA V TRAIN"? WAIT, THEY ACTUALLY PUT THEMSELVES IN THE SAME SENTENCE WITH ROCKSTAR GAMES?

 

(office bursts into hysterical laughter)

 

 

 

[Hexerin 1140]

Just now, Goldtiger said:

They would just need their own access to LTL weapons, or even their own unique LTL weapons.

The system I've always envisioned for a reworked and streamlined LTL is to:

• Convert the Stabba weapons into lethal weapons (PIG would be removed from the game, fortunately or unfortunately depending on your opinion of the weapon).
• Move all the Cop role Stabba weapon unlocks into contact progression, like every other weapon in the game.
• Introduce open slot versions of the Stabba primaries, unlocked at Cop 5/10/15 per the usual.
• Introduce a new mod, ideally being a green mod so it doesn't conflict with any existing mods.
• "Subsonic Rounds" - Simply swaps the health and stamina damage values on the gun it's slotted into.
• Copy all this over to the Criminal side. Give Criminals the "Hostage" role to mirror Cop.
• Remove the increased score, cash, and standing rewards you get for arrests and taking hostages. These were there because of how weak LTL was.

That's all you'd need to do to make LTL a completely healthy and viable gameplay mechanic. Everything else about LTL is already balanced:

• Common misconception: The increased respawn time isn't an increased respawn timer. It's the normal respawn timer plus the several seconds you're cuffed.
• If you're rescued, you get back into the field at a minimum of 30 seconds faster, potentially even minutes if your respawn options were Waterfront tier.
• The increased potential downtime is the reward for taking the risk that the target might get rescued. The mechanic balances itself.
• The risk you take to arrest or take the target hostage is balanced against the risk the target's teammates take to rescue them. Self-balance.

[Asparii 50]

10 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

The risk you take to arrest or take the target hostage is balanced against the risk the target's teammates take to rescue them. Self-balance.

It's much quicker to save (unarrest?) someone then it is to arrest them, you also have the advantage of being crouched if you're being shot at when saving someone, but that's a minor thing.
 

11 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

The increased potential downtime is the reward for taking the risk that the target might get rescued. The mechanic balances itself.

You need to consider how the rest of the gun plays into it though.
LTL has a disadvantage in every way, so that increased difficulty in stunning someone before they can kill you can also be considered the reason why you get to keep someone down longer, but on top of that they can be saved.
Yes you get extra cash but it's really not worth it considering how little extra you get.
 

20 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Convert the Stabba weapons into lethal weapons

They'd be direct downgrades to any actual Lethal weapon, there'd be no point in using them.

20 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

•  Introduce a new mod, ideally being a green mod so it doesn't conflict with any existing mods.
•  "Subsonic Rounds" - Simply swaps the health and stamina damage values on the gun it's slotted into.

This would just be broken, lethal guns aren't made to be LTL. You also aren't considering hard damage.
If you put this on an LMG you'd be able to destroy vehicles, and stun people in seconds with your ROF, the Harrier 3 would also be an instant stun.

As nice as it is to try and balance LTL the way to do so isn't to remove them, just change their stats, give crims the same option with possibly different skins/looks and instead of arresting have them take the cops hostage
(Which I guess would be a similar animation. I always imagined they'd beat them to do or something but hostage works too)

[Fyre 38]

24 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

•  The increased potential downtime is the reward for taking the risk that the target might get rescued. The mechanic balances itself.
•  The risk you take to arrest or take the target hostage is balanced against the risk the target's teammates take to rescue them. Self-balance.

 

I broadly disagree that what you're suggesting would be balanced, but I'm just gonna poke out these little bits and say that the rate of captures to rescues you often see in games does not reflect a self-balancing effect at all.

And for the second one, the risk that the capturer takes is not at all similar to the risk that the hostage free-er takes. Being that the absurd amount of time that you're stunned for after losing to LTL is more than enough for any would-be captor to finish up fights or call over allies, able to arrest you at their leisure. As a result, arresting ends up being safer than freeing an arrested criminal. Edited July 24, 2018 by Fyre

[magik 184]

The mechanics of LTL, Ram Raiding, and Witnessing need to be fixed. 
Sure Ram Raiding is easy money, and you can go to empty districts to farm.
Sure LTL is annoying, but it's also not easy to get arrests...

I'd rather The whole set of these systems that are faction based be fixed. 
LTL was implemented as a counter to Ram Raiding. Witnessing doesn't allow you to gain money, you're waiting for a crime to be over the limit, be raiding, mugging, etc. You can stun any player, and arrest any enemy, making it a valuable money making tool as compared to Ram Raiding.

Not to mention that you can get money for a stun, but if you die, or can't make the arrest, the enemy is out of combat for a much shorter time. If they're Arrested, they can easily resume combat if a teammate saves them. 

The game is team based, work together. If you're not working with your teammates, then you're inhibiting them during a mission. That's why the mechanics were implemented as they are.

[crusade 89]

4 hours ago, Fyre said:

Pretty sure it's weak by design to compensate for the on-kill reward.

Psst, hey guys. TG-8 has the same exact TTS as the FBW has TTK. And it bypasses kevlar/clotting.

[Asparii 50]

21 minutes ago, Sergsininia said:

not working with your teammates,

Yeah but..It's the APB community.
So this is guaranteed
 

21 minutes ago, Sergsininia said:

LTL was implemented as a counter to Ram Raiding. Witnessing doesn't allow you to gain money, you're waiting for a crime to be over the limit, be raiding, mugging, etc. You can stun any player, and arrest any enemy, making it a valuable money making tool as compared to Ram Raiding.

An easy fix to this would be give cops the ability to raid apartments or something. Give them some sort of farming feature that would work the same as ram raiding, and give Crims an equivalent to LTL.
Then buff LTL because it's garbage Edited July 24, 2018 by Asparii

[stateofthegame 23]

3 hours ago, Aeronaut said:

WHY ARE THERE CHARTS AND CHARTS OF JOKERY MYSTERY BOX SALES POSTED UP AROUND THE OFFICE?

This got me good

[Unclean 45]

I've always said just give Enforcers an out-of-mission way to earn money (like hacking) and give crims a way to butt-in.

Then give criminals their own weapon sets. Either lethal, but no extra points-easy to use like LTL, or LTL equivalent with some sort of "arrest"

Criminals holding enforcers hostage or arresting goes out of lore and sense though.

It's always bugged me that people compare a way of making money out of missions to a whole other way to play the main game, but I see their reasoning

[wibsey 91]

7 hours ago, Aeronaut said:

recent transcripts from meetings @ little orbit HQ

 

F*CK F*CK F*CK F*CK WHY DID WE BUY THIS GAME?

 

WHO IS DDOSING US?

 

WHOSE CUBICLE IS THIS AND WHY IS THERE A USB DRIVE IN A RANDOM CUBICLE CALLED "RACING DISTRICT"?

 

WAIT, THEY ONLY HAD THE TRIAL VERSION OF UNREAL ENGINE?

 

WHO IS NEUME AND WHAT IS A WATERFRONT? (i can't find the interview anymore?)

 

WHAT IS FALLEN EARTH AND WHY DIDNT THEY PAY US TO DISCARD IT?

 

WHY ARE THERE CHARTS AND CHARTS OF JOKERY MYSTERY BOX SALES POSTED UP AROUND THE OFFICE?

 

WHY IS THEIR OFFICE LOCATED IN A SHOPPING PLAZA?

 

WHAT'S THIS LIST LABELED "DO NOT BAN $$$$" (nah I highly doubtful they did this)

 

IT SMELLS LIKE HORSE MANUERE IN HERE.

 

APB VENDETTA? HAHAHAHAHA.

 

WHAT IS THIS "AUGUST 19TH?"

 

WHAT IS THIS PDF LABELED "YUKON IS NOT BUGGED - PLEASE IGNORE"

 

"APB COLLIDES WITH GTA V TRAIN"? WAIT, THEY ACTUALLY PUT THEMSELVES IN THE SAME SENTENCE WITH ROCKSTAR GAMES?

 

(office bursts into hysterical laughter)

 

 

 

FeelsTiggsMan

[Seedy 324]

9 hours ago, BXNNXD said:

this

also if ltl was actually competitive i'd be pretty seriously in favor of giving criminals some sort of equivalent mechanic

baseball bat.. enough said.

[CookiePuss 5378]

Remove ram raiding and LTL. 
GG EZ

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

Eh. It is always going to be weak to offset not only the larger monetary and standing rewards you get but also the longer respawn that crims are subjected to from it.

[vsb 6171]

6 hours ago, Unclean said:

Criminals holding enforcers hostage

how does that go against lore