An Open Letter from the APB community

[Revoluzzer 274]

On 12/26/2022 at 6:08 PM, MonkaS said:

this. many br's suffer from this problem of not enough action per time invested who wants to wait minutes for seconds of action.

At least battle royales have stressors during the low-conflict-phase, which keep the player on edge. Grab good loot, make sure nobody jumps you when you're ill prepared, figure out a decent route for the ever-shrinking battlefield.

 

APB could have something like that, if it was set up more like a true cops-and-robbers game. Start a mission and anyone who notices you are on a job can intercept. But it would be much more difficult to lay down some basic rules, to prevent districts from simply devolving into mayhem.

I guess nowadays such emergent gameplay would be much easier to realise. When APB was being made, the idea was certainly there, but the technology wasn't.

[gremlen 18]

10 hours ago, glaciers said:

g1 rolled almost everything back to rtw, they didn’t just lengthen ttk

 

so guns were massively unbalanced and there were tons of old bugs and exploits available - obviously no one wanted to play in a district like that, and g1 used that to pretend no one wanted longer ttk 

I dunno but on forums the feedback was majorly about the length of ttk and majority didn't really like how long it is. The game feels clunky with it.

[yourrandomnobody74 106]

11 hours ago, gremlen said:

I dunno but on forums the feedback was majorly about the length of ttk and majority didn't really like how long it is. The game feels clunky with it.

Because they've gimped the districts on purposely to fit Qwentle's agenda of lowering TTK since G1 took over RTW (he was a big proponent of shortening STK, you can check up web archive and check old forums for this, Dopefish mentioned this numerious times back in the days)

 

 

The game right now feels clunky, unintuitive, doesn't regard mechanical skill whatsoever and rewards luck in a fight over aiming. They think lengthening TTK by adding a ton of bloom (as seen by the recent NTEC changes, complete lack of awareness by the testers what makes a good shooter game good.) is how we should approach "high TTK", but that's far from it.

I've mentioned this topic numerious times in my posts, will reiterate again.

 

 

Obnoxiously high bloom, low TTK, unnecessary movement penalties, damage curve mechanics have no place in a game that claims to be a proper competitive shooter, unless (as Matt seems to mention that a ton in his latest AMA), the devs see APB as a RPG then it does not matter

 

 

Lengthening TTK ( in the range of 1.1s to 1.5s) should be done by adjusting STK, lowering bloom (bloom recovery adjustments, blooming after X amount of shots etc.) substantially across the board, heck I'd even say make 1-shot accuracy on all guns in ADS 100% accurate (while also removing unnecessary movement penalties, curve mechanics and adjusting hipfire stock bloom), akin to the Dev Star. This will not only make stock weapons as strong as their modded counterpart (very good for newer players to get into the game without feeling behind, even though I find the idea of slotted weapons flawed to begin with), it will also make for more consistent fights and it'll make balancing MUCH easier with the huge weapon pool we have in APB.

 

 

Also, no 2STK weapons. Ever. Neither 1STK. Snipers and shotguns should be 3STK minimum.

 

 

The biggest issue with this idea are mods such as Hunting Sight, Cooling Jacket and Improved Rifling. All of them have no place in a game that claims to be a shooter. Why would a mod adjust your accuracy to begin with? Why would a mod adjust range, why not just make your life easier by adjusting range per gun, not counting for a mod possibly make the gun game-breaking (as seen numerious times during the course of weapon balancing). Reflex Sight should buff hipfire bloom, the above mentioned mods should all be removed.

 

 

22 hours ago, glaciers said:

g1 rolled almost everything back to rtw, they didn’t just lengthen ttk

 

so guns were massively unbalanced and there were tons of old bugs and exploits available - obviously no one wanted to play in a district like that, and g1 used that to pretend no one wanted longer ttk 

^ basically this

 

[R3ACT3M 489]

5 hours ago, yourrandomnobody74 said:

 

I would at least like to try a longer ttk just to see how it plays. I can say for sure though that I can't stand respawning 100+ meters away and dying in .923 seconds and then doing it all over again. I'd like battles to last a while.

[BlatMan 712]

31 minutes ago, R3ACT3M said:

I would at least like to try a longer ttk just to see how it plays. I can say for sure though that I can't stand respawning 100+ meters away and dying in .923 seconds and then doing it all over again. I'd like battles to last a while.

The closest you can get is to have a 1v1 with both players using the NCR-762 'Anubis' and OCSP 'Kommandant'. Both weapons are very accurate but ttk is a little higher than other weapons in the same niche. They also have less over damage so clotting agent and  kevlar can change the outcome.

Edited December 28, 2022 by BlatMan

[MonkaS 215]

1 hour ago, BlatMan said:

The closest you can get is to have a 1v1 with both players using the NCR-762 'Anubis' and OCSP 'Kommandant'. Both weapons are very accurate but ttk is a little higher than other weapons in the same niche. They also have less over damage so clotting agent and  kevlar can change the outcome.

dude 100% agree OCSP 'Kommandant' fights are so fun 

[Knataz 20]

'An Empty Open Letter'

Thanks 

[R3ACT3M 489]

16 hours ago, BlatMan said:

The closest you can get is to have a 1v1 with both players using the NCR-762 'Anubis' and OCSP 'Kommandant'. Both weapons are very accurate but ttk is a little higher than other weapons in the same niche. They also have less over damage so clotting agent and  kevlar can change the outcome.

anubis is one of my favorite guns to play. It sounds nice and feels nice.

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

19 hours ago, R3ACT3M said:

anubis is one of my favorite guns to play. It sounds nice and feels nice.

Still waiting for the anubis revert they promised 4 years ago.

[gremlen 18]

On 12/28/2022 at 7:15 PM, yourrandomnobody74 said:

Because they've gimped the districts on purposely to fit Qwentle's agenda of lowering TTK since G1 took over RTW (he was a big proponent of shortening STK, you can check up web archive and check old forums for this, Dopefish mentioned this numerious times back in the days)

 

 

The game right now feels clunky, unintuitive, doesn't regard mechanical skill whatsoever and rewards luck in a fight over aiming. They think lengthening TTK by adding a ton of bloom (as seen by the recent NTEC changes, complete lack of awareness by the testers what makes a good shooter game good.) is how we should approach "high TTK", but that's far from it.

I've mentioned this topic numerious times in my posts, will reiterate again.

 

 

Obnoxiously high bloom, low TTK, unnecessary movement penalties, damage curve mechanics have no place in a game that claims to be a proper competitive shooter, unless (as Matt seems to mention that a ton in his latest AMA), the devs see APB as a RPG then it does not matter

 

 

Lengthening TTK ( in the range of 1.1s to 1.5s) should be done by adjusting STK, lowering bloom (bloom recovery adjustments, blooming after X amount of shots etc.) substantially across the board, heck I'd even say make 1-shot accuracy on all guns in ADS 100% accurate (while also removing unnecessary movement penalties, curve mechanics and adjusting hipfire stock bloom), akin to the Dev Star. This will not only make stock weapons as strong as their modded counterpart (very good for newer players to get into the game without feeling behind, even though I find the idea of slotted weapons flawed to begin with), it will also make for more consistent fights and it'll make balancing MUCH easier with the huge weapon pool we have in APB.

The long ttk will make the game much worse. First of all attacking the mission will become much harder in many areas because how easy it will to run away to regen hp and comeback to defend the point, especially with a car gameplay meta. Sniper rifles will be dead in 99% scenarios, The meta will be just to drive close to the enemy and try him in cqc to prevent him running away and regen because the game will become more forgiving for him. Semi-auto will be dead for sure because none will want to click 20 times at one enemy, it will quickly exhaust you. The idea of increasing stk means that you won't be able anymore to clutch vs N-amount of enemies by one round + secondary gun. The game will end up as a tactical step by step strategy with trading kills because one guy will just not have an opportunity to keep fighting after the 1st kill without reloading. But if LO will increase the capacity of magazine it will make the game look stupid with ugly numbers (45ap with 14 bullets in one mag). What about long range fights? Should weapons have a limited effective range or maximum damage at any distance? If weapons will keep their effective range, so how many shots I need to land at one enemy at long range? 30? Fighting in this game will look unsatisfied and feel unrewarded.

 

On 12/28/2022 at 7:15 PM, yourrandomnobody74 said:

The biggest issue with this idea are mods such as Hunting Sight, Cooling Jacket and Improved Rifling. All of them have no place in a game that claims to be a shooter. Why would a mod adjust your accuracy to begin with? Why would a mod adjust range, why not just make your life easier by adjusting range per gun, not counting for a mod possibly make the gun game-breaking (as seen numerious times during the course of weapon balancing). Reflex Sight should buff hipfire bloom, the above mentioned mods should all be removed.

Why not? The only problem here is a big amount of weapons that caused balancing weapons around their most used mods to prevent changing weapon niche by switching different mods. For example Pre-LO ntec was op at most situations with meta ir3 and hs3 but at close-mid range it could destroy in cqc if you switch to cj3, you didn't really need oca or pmg. So, the balance here works like that: instead of switching mods in one weapon, you're forced to switch to other weapons. 

[BlatMan 712]

21 hours ago, NotZombieBiscuit said:

Still waiting for the anubis revert they promised 4 years ago.

It wasn't about game balance either, it was to sell the N-ISSR-B. They nerfed the jump shooting on the NCR, N-HVR 762, Vesper, and DMR. The same patch they added the N-ISSR-B, which can jump shoot.

 

2014/3/17 - 1.15.0.661971 to 1.15.0.665548

http://old.apbdb.com/changes/

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by BlatMan

[LilyRain 674]

2 hours ago, gremlen said:

The long ttk will make the game much worse. First of all attacking the mission will become much harder in many areas because how easy it will to run away to regen hp and comeback to defend the point, especially with a car gameplay meta. Sniper rifles will be dead in 99% scenarios, The meta will be just to drive close to the enemy and try him in cqc to prevent him running away and regen because the game will become more forgiving for him. Semi-auto will be dead for sure because none will want to click 20 times at one enemy, it will quickly exhaust you. The idea of increasing stk means that you won't be able anymore to clutch vs N-amount of enemies by one round + secondary gun. The game will end up as a tactical step by step strategy with trading kills because one guy will just not have an opportunity to keep fighting after the 1st kill without reloading. But if LO will increase the capacity of magazine it will make the game look stupid with ugly numbers (45ap with 14 bullets in one mag). What about long range fights? Should weapons have a limited effective range or maximum damage at any distance? If weapons will keep their effective range, so how many shots I need to land at one enemy at long range? 30? Fighting in this game will look unsatisfied and feel unrewarded.

 

Why not? The only problem here is a big amount of weapons that caused balancing weapons around their most used mods to prevent changing weapon niche by switching different mods. For example Pre-LO ntec was op at most situations with meta ir3 and hs3 but at close-mid range it could destroy in cqc if you switch to cj3, you didn't really need oca or pmg. So, the balance here works like that: instead of switching mods in one weapon, you're forced to switch to other weapons. 

Precisely. Longer TTKs will simply amplify ALL of APB existing problems.

Anyone who advocates for longer TTKs doesn't have a single clue to what they are talking about.

[Revoluzzer 274]

On 12/28/2022 at 5:15 PM, yourrandomnobody74 said:

Obnoxiously high bloom, low TTK, unnecessary movement penalties, damage curve mechanics have no place in a game that claims to be a proper competitive shooter, unless (as Matt seems to mention that a ton in his latest AMA), the devs see APB as a RPG then it does not matter

APB is hardly a competitive shooter, there are way too many random factors regarding everything to allow such a label. Doesn't make any of the curve mechanics more fun, though. Quite the contrary.

 

6 hours ago, gremlen said:

The long ttk will make the game much worse. First of all attacking the mission will become much harder in many areas because how easy it will to run away to regen hp and comeback to defend the point, especially with a car gameplay meta. Sniper rifles will be dead in 99% scenarios, The meta will be just to drive close to the enemy and try him in cqc to prevent him running away and regen because the game will become more forgiving for him. Semi-auto will be dead for sure because none will want to click 20 times at one enemy, it will quickly exhaust you. The idea of increasing stk means that you won't be able anymore to clutch vs N-amount of enemies by one round + secondary gun. The game will end up as a tactical step by step strategy with trading kills because one guy will just not have an opportunity to keep fighting after the 1st kill without reloading. But if LO will increase the capacity of magazine it will make the game look stupid with ugly numbers (45ap with 14 bullets in one mag). What about long range fights? Should weapons have a limited effective range or maximum damage at any distance? If weapons will keep their effective range, so how many shots I need to land at one enemy at long range? 30? Fighting in this game will look unsatisfied and feel unrewarded.

Missions will play out differently for sure. At the moment wiping out the enemy team is practically the only way to work an objective, because a single enemy can easily take you out before you have moved the progress-bar/circle beyond the next checkpoint. It was designed with a higher TTK in mind, so you could more easily sacrifice yourself for some desperately needed progress. Whereas now you can easily sacrifice yourself for no progress at all. It goes from a wipe and reset style of combat to a push and pull style.

 

It also requires a greater team effort to succeed, because one person could indeed rarely "clutch vs N-amount of enemies". A much better tactic was to "focus down" individual enemies, i.e. taking them out one by one as a team-effort, thus pushing them away from the objective. The HVR 762 played a crucial role in this, because of the (arguably too) high burst damage. Once the enemy was short one member, they could easily be pushed off the objective.

Cars were less of a safe haven, because getting blown to bits in or around one was more likely than making a successful runaway.

 

The combination of lowering TTK and allowing all weapons to reach across the entire range spectrum, also meant that falling back from a fight became less viable. Since any amount of damage will completely stop health regeneration, players can, with some weapons, still take you out way beyond their effective range.

 

Quote

For example Pre-LO ntec was op at most situations with meta ir3 and hs3 but at close-mid range it could destroy in cqc if you switch to cj3, you didn't really need oca or pmg. So, the balance here works like that: instead of switching mods in one weapon, you're forced to switch to other weapons. 

Minor correction: The N-Tec was so great in CQC because it had the same base TTK as dedicated CQC weapons combined with good accuracy and precision. It didn't have the mobility, but it didn't really need it in a low TTK environment.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Revoluzzer

[Nagletz 215]

Jeez u guys should get a game analytics job or something, waste of wall texting talent on apb lol

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

20 minutes ago, Nagletz said:

Jeez u guys should get a game analytics job or something, waste of wall texting talent on apb lol

You gonna hire us?

[BlatMan 712]

8 hours ago, Nagletz said:

Jeez u guys should get a game analytics job or something, waste of wall texting talent on apb lol

Then we'd have no time to play.

[gremlen 18]

On 12/31/2022 at 12:30 PM, Revoluzzer said:

The combination of lowering TTK and allowing all weapons to reach across the entire range spectrum, also meant that falling back from a fight became less viable. Since any amount of damage will completely stop health regeneration, players can, with some weapons, still take you out way beyond their effective range.

The game already has a huge advantage for defend side on the missions. With slower ttk defend side will have even more advantage because getting one bullet that stops your regen will be more forgiving than now. That means you can feel yourself more safer at corners in situations where your enemies are forced to push you.

 

Merged.

 

On 12/31/2022 at 12:30 PM, Revoluzzer said:

Minor correction: The N-Tec was so great in CQC because it had the same base TTK as dedicated CQC weapons combined with good accuracy and precision. It didn't have the mobility, but it didn't really need it in a low TTK environment.

N-tec didn't get a ttk change. It was 0.7 sec for 7 years. Combination of a good accuracy and precision made some people choosing ntec in cqc situations by switching to cj3. Then G1 buffed oca ttk from 0.7 to 0.63 and that caused even more problems. It's just an example of a wide variety of a weapon choice in the game that will never be balanced and why the game doesn't need new weapons unless LO decides to rotate meta with new patches because right now the game is a mess that's not possible to balance without just rotating meta.

[R3ACT3M 489]

On 12/31/2022 at 3:30 AM, Revoluzzer said:

Missions will play out differently for sure. At the moment wiping out the enemy team is practically the only way to work an objective, because a single enemy can easily take you out before you have moved the progress-bar/circle beyond the next checkpoint. It was designed with a higher TTK in mind, so you could more easily sacrifice yourself for some desperately needed progress. Whereas now you can easily sacrifice yourself for no progress at all. It goes from a wipe and reset style of combat to a push and pull style.

Matt mentioned something in the AMA where he would like to have districts where players can test out balance changes. I wonder if it's possible to get there attention on bringing longer TTKs into the realm of possibility. I know I already said (in a really long rant post tbh) that if gun fights in APB were longer it would make the running from point A to Point B feel like less of a waste of time. Now I could be wrong. But with a longer TTK players might actually find themselves being more aggressive rather than more defensive since running into a storm of bullets will actually get you some action vs just dying immediately. Of course clotting agent and kevlar should be balanced around a longer ttk.

I feel like what LO was trying to do, is make it so weapons like the NTEC didn't kill as fast by making it bloom much more aggressively. When instead they should have left it as is, buffed some other rifles and raised the overall health of players. (or reduce damage of guns across the board).
 

11 hours ago, gremlen said:

N-tec didn't get a ttk change. It was 0.7 sec for 7 years. Combination of a good accuracy and precision made some people choosing ntec in cqc situations by switching to cj3. Then G1 buffed oca ttk from 0.7 to 0.63 and that caused even more problems. It's just an example of a wide variety of a weapon choice in the game that will never be balanced and why the game doesn't need new weapons unless LO decides to rotate meta with new patches because right now the game is a mess that's not possible to balance without just rotating meta.

"Never be balanced" is probably not true. Right now there are a lot of core issues that are going to make balancing guns really hard. 

Raising the ttk across the board could make a lot of weapons feel less cheap to play. 

I personally think instead of what LO is trying to do which is make guns bloom more. They should make guns more accurate, but they should take more shots to land in order to actually kill. An original argument I made is that guns should be more accurate but have more recoil, but that might be too much for this style of game according to another user. So why not make guns more accurate but take more shots to kill? This would make guns more reliant on a person's skill rather than the randomness of the bloom. Part of APB's skill ceiling is it takes a long time to master the perfect rate at which to click your mouse to get that min ttk. Which is where the issue of players cheating and using Macros come into play.

Gunplay needs some core fixes for sure. I think weapons like the PMG and OCA shouldn't allow players to strafe as quick as they can right now. As once you are in range it's pretty much game over for most. Then you have the issue with shotguns and corner popping. That im not really sure how you could fix, maybe by making players have to aim the shotgun and then reducing their movement speed when aiming to punish that style of play (corner popping) whilst promoting a risk and reward with the shotgun, if you nail the hit deal massive amounts of damage, whilst missing could mean your doom.

Another way they could test out balance changes is by doing gun game events where players can test out the changes in a more focused in mode.

idk, another one of my posts that ended up in me just spitballing some ideas.

[gremlen 18]

On 1/2/2023 at 4:21 AM, R3ACT3M said:

"Never be balanced" is probably not true. Right now there are a lot of core issues that are going to make balancing guns really hard. 

The problem is that 90% of new weapons were about reinventing the wheel. Cobra is worse carbine but automatic. Ursus is ntec but less stk. Far is basically ntec with slightly worse accuracy at range. SBSR is worse dmr and many other things. You can't balance it right because the core gameplay mechanic of these weapons are the same and the only difference is their stats. If FAR gets a buff and becomes better ntec everyone just switches to it. You can't make people using such core identical weapons on the same rate, people either play far or ntec. There will always be meta.

 

This is the reason why Valve don't add new weapons in csgo after a disaster with revolver and keeps the same meta because it fits the game in the best possible way. They tried changing meta by balancing economy by lowering aug and sig prices to be a more viable choice. So, it caused people just moving into AUG and SIG meta and drop ak and m4. The majority of a playerbase didn't like it. And Valve can't find the proper way to balance it right. They can't even make a proper balance between m4-s and regular m4 to make players choose both instead they just rotate the meta each year between them. Players always choose the best choice. And it's only two weapons while apb has much more weapons in each niche.

 

Merged.

 

On 1/2/2023 at 4:21 AM, R3ACT3M said:

Part of APB's skill ceiling is it takes a long time to master the perfect rate at which to click your mouse to get that min ttk. Which is where the issue of players cheating and using Macros come into play.

Cheating and macroing should not be considered as an argument of how to balance the game. Mastering many mechanical skills in apb that are not really needed in other games is what I like about this game. In fact 90% of players you're referring to cheating or macroing category I'm sure are clean players. TTK should not be touched especially by Matt Scott a guy who has zero experience of publishing and maintaining shooters in the past because he's unaware that just nerfing ttk and buffing accuracy of each gun is not enough. Missions, movement, equipment, vehicles are balanced around the current fighting. Nerfing ttk can cause attacking side falling into a huge disadvantage because on many spots an ability of finding a tight timing where you can quickly minttk defend side opposition(im referring to german fortress) is a key to a successful attack

Edited January 2, 2023 by gremlen

[R3ACT3M 489]

On 1/2/2023 at 5:13 AM, gremlen said:

In fact 90% of players you're referring to cheating or macroing category I'm sure are clean players

the fact that you assume that I'm someone who assumes everyone is cheating is plain wrong. I was simply stating it as an obvious fact to why people *would* macro not that everyone does it. 
 

On 1/2/2023 at 5:13 AM, gremlen said:

Nerfing ttk can cause attacking side falling into a huge disadvantage because on many spots an ability of finding a tight timing where you can quickly minttk defend side opposition(im referring to german fortress) is a key to a successful attack

Don't be so narrow minded, LO have already addressed that maps need spots to mitigate the diluting into king of the hill situations. TTK has nothing to do with defending or attacking, it has to do with the lack of routes the player has available and the lack of cover to make an approach. There are a lot of dead spots on both financial and waterfront where players can see another player coming from a mile away. 

On 1/2/2023 at 4:56 AM, gremlen said:

This is the reason why Valve don't add new weapons in csgo after a disaster with revolver and keeps the same meta because it fits the game in the best possible way.

I don't see the corsair making any waves yet. (and it's one of my favorite guns to play)

On 1/2/2023 at 5:13 AM, gremlen said:

Cheating and macroing should not be considered as an argument of how to balance the game

Cheating should absolutely be considered in balancing an online game.

On 1/2/2023 at 4:56 AM, gremlen said:

You can't balance it right because the core gameplay mechanic of these weapons are the same and the only difference is their stats.

This is exactly what I'm trying to advocate for. The core mechanics for apb's gunplay need to change. Right now the game is in a state where TTK is low like you said ntec has been .7 for years. Many players including myself don't like having to run for 100m dying in ~1sec just to respawn and start it all over again. On top of that most the gun nerfing in APB atm has been around bullet spread. And if this low TTK is so great, how come servers have been dwindling for ages now?

One of the problems you have right now is there are a good handful of guns in the game right now that are too easy to play. 
I think that CQB weapons should be encouraged to ADS so that way movement debuffs can be made. Make the OCA and PMG superior at close range combat. But it's incredibly annoying for players to have to fight someone who just has to hit A and D in a pattern while holding left click. You could fix shotguns the same way by having penalties be placed if the player chooses not to aim the shotgun. This could really help prevent someone from corner camping with a shotgun. (talking about where they jump in and out of cover)

 

On 1/2/2023 at 4:56 AM, gremlen said:

Players always choose the best choice. And it's only two weapons while apb has much more weapons in each niche.

This is why in APB's case, a lot of guns just need slight buffs. 
You have the NTEC, OCA, PMG, JG, JOKER CARBINE sitting on top of the throne as top picks (which is fine)
But after the FAR nerf i've only seen one person actually play it, so it's an example of a gun that needs a slight buff
same with the cobra/adder. The free 2 play guns should remain the top most played weapons.

 

On 12/31/2022 at 12:30 PM, Revoluzzer said:

APB is hardly a competitive shooter, there are way too many random factors regarding everything to allow such a label. Doesn't make any of the curve mechanics more fun, though. Quite the contrary.

 

You might see me ask this question a lot, but what do you think people would think of when it comes to having guns be more accurate, but the TTK is made generally longer.

 

On 12/31/2022 at 8:09 AM, LilyRain said:

Precisely. Longer TTKs will simply amplify ALL of APB existing problems.

Anyone who advocates for longer TTKs doesn't have a single clue to what they are talking about.

I don't think making TTK longer on it's own will be good, but alongside other needed changes will be a much better improvement. It's definitely something I at least would like to give a chance in a some sort of a test district.

I also don't think it would be an overnight change. But with APB having mostly hitscan weapons I think trying to turn it into a twitch shooter is just not a good idea either. 

On 12/31/2022 at 12:30 PM, Revoluzzer said:

Missions will play out differently for sure.

Missions in general need complete overhauls to remove the devolving into king of the hill matches. So many of the missions end up becoming these toxic matches where players who have the high ground can just keep watch over a point 100m every direction and can watch every ladder and stair case making it impossible for attackers to make any actual advances. On top of that, players who run for 100m+ then die in less than a second only to be given the info of who killed them and the 144p icon of what represents their killer's gun are not going to be the player base that sticks around.

Keep in mind, that I'm 100% guilty of being on the giving and receiving ends of matches like this. And once a team has momentum and can just lock down a point with no avenue for comeback's it's just not fun for either side. I mean how many times have you gone, WOW, camping the point from up here for 3min and 25 seconds really was intense and promoted actual strategies to defending the point!  

I could give a list of changes I would make to objectives but I'm not gonna do that again.

[LilyRain 674]

30 minutes ago, R3ACT3M said:

I don't think making TTK longer on it's own will be good, but alongside other needed changes will be a much better improvement. It's definitely something I at least would like to give a chance in a some sort of a test district.

I also don't think it would be an overnight change. But with APB having mostly hitscan weapons I think trying to turn it into a twitch shooter is just not a good idea either. 

The changes must be drastic, namely against mobility.

APB is a game where people can instantly turn 180º and continue moving at full-speed. Currently, a lot of fights get cancelled using Clotting Agent 3 behind objects, or the ability to enter a nearby-car. Having longer TTKs will guarantee that APB will become a game that requires getting more friendlies to aim at the same target to make any progress. Solo-gameplay is already at a high-disadvantage and any higher TTK will effectively make it useless without explosives.

[R3ACT3M 489]

2 hours ago, LilyRain said:

namely against mobility.

Yea I think my bigger gripe is that there are weapons rn that you don't have to aim, get full movement speed and take nothing to aim them.

 

2 hours ago, LilyRain said:

APB is a game where people can instantly turn 180º and continue moving at full-speed

Is this something an animated transition could solve? Doesn't have to be a slow one. but a delay so players can't just run towards their camera then snap aim.
 

2 hours ago, LilyRain said:

a lot of fights get cancelled using Clotting Agent 3 behind objects

Yea really, I hate how much of a necessity clotting agent 2/3 is. You are literally at a disadvantage for not using it. And New players will have no idea about it's abilities.

 

2 hours ago, LilyRain said:

or the ability to enter a nearby-car

This one im kinda 50/50 on. I think cars can make escapes really clutch. I supposed to "fix" this would be to allow shooting drivers but that would be a can of worms to open for sure.
 

2 hours ago, LilyRain said:

Having longer TTKs will guarantee that APB will become a game that requires getting more friendlies to aim at the same target to make any progress

Maybe longer TTK isn't the core issue then, but maybe the fact that matchmaking can really screw the pooch. Some of the worst games to play are the 1v1 2v2 or even 3v3. 4v4 and up is when the games are fun imo as there's a lot going on and will be harder to coordinate a camp spot.

 

2 hours ago, LilyRain said:

Solo-gameplay is already at a high-disadvantage and any higher TTK will effectively make it useless without explosives.

Yea it really could go one of two ways

I really feel like players would try to be more aggressive since it requires a little more effort to try and get rounds down range. Keep in mind I like the idea of a longer ttk in exchange for better weapon accuracy. Right now it feels like the TTK is shortening due to weapons being less accurate which makes just about all of them feel really bad to play with.

+ Pre-nading is already a thing that players do so I don't know how that could be too much of an issue. Sure grenades will also have to be tweaked to fit a higher ttk. Maybe instead of them dealing a flat amount of damage have them deal a percent amount with range having an effect on the maximum percent (just an idea, dunno if it's a good one or not)

The other way it can go is players will be more defensive. I guess in this case CQB would be the popular option because as of now these weapons typically dish out the most amount of damage fairly quickly.
I don't think anyone would really know how players would behave until a test environment is set up. 

I'm just keeping an open mind to the idea, I can still play apb with it's short time to kill, but I recognize the issues with boths sides of a long ttk and a short ttk.

[vsb 6171]

7 hours ago, R3ACT3M said:

Cheating should absolutely be considered in balancing an online game.

wrong

[R3ACT3M 489]

2 hours ago, glaciers said:

wrong

very compelling response ill make sure to heavily analyze this before continuing to ever post again

[CookiePuss 5379]

How did longer ttk work? 
Slower RoF?

More shots to kill?

And if it is shots to kill, how would mag size / ammo pool adjusted? Or would it not be?

 

^Just some honest questions that popped into my head. 
 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by CookiePuss