Old weapon drop system

[vsb 6171]

Just now, Excalibur! said:

Why are you telling me is not rude then? How isnt taking your stuff rude? You guys make no sense ;/

gameplay mechanics arent rude

 

 

[Excalibur! 207]

4 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

gameplay mechanics arent rude

 

 

Well, that one it is.

If you want to play diferent guns then or either switch or play more the game to obtain them, no just "ey i want a drop mechanic to user other guns xDD". ???????

[vsb 6171]

Just now, Excalibur! said:

Well, that one it is.

If you want to play diferent guns then or either switch or play more the game to obtain them, no just "ey i want a drop mechanic to user other guns xDD". ???????

is killing people rude? 

 

what about doing objectives?

 

why are we even discussing this?

[Excalibur! 207]

2 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

is killing people rude? 

 

what about doing objectives?

 

why are we even discussing this?

Thats what leads nonsensical threads. OP didnt even gave reasons of why he wants it added or the downsides (or pro) to add new mechanics like this... just because "i liked the mechanic, i want to play with diferent guns from diferent players".

Like ey bud, buy ur skins, farm ur guns and legendarys...

Edited June 16, 2018 by Excalibur!

[vsb 6171]

Just now, Excalibur! said:

Thats what leads nonsensical threads. OP didnt even gave reasons of why he wants it added or the downsides (or pro) to add new mechanics like this... just because "i liked the mechanic, i want to play with diferent guns from diferent players".

i mean he did give several pros, and this is a mechanic that we've had in the past

[Excalibur! 207]

Just now, BXNNXD said:

i mean he did give several pros, and this is a mechanic that we've had in the past

Like liking that feature and using diferent guns from diferent players? What about the gameplay, can you enumerate the pros and cons he gave (or just pros...)?

[vsb 6171]

4 minutes ago, Excalibur! said:

Like liking that feature and using diferent guns from diferent players? What about the gameplay, can you enumerate the pros and cons he gave (or just pros...)?

im not going to argue for a feature i dont want

[Someone 1]

It was a GREAT mechanic but I remember the most hated thing about it was IIRC that you would pick up two primary weapons if you dropped your secondary, People thought that was game breaking because it meant winners of an engagement would double their firepower in a certain sense while the loser is left at a disadvantage.  I thoroughly understand why people might not like that mechanic or think it's fair but the reality is that it isn't just balanced but also potentially raises the skill ceiling of the game.

 

Consider an established Esports game like Quake 3/Champions where part of the game is ensuring your opponent can't collect vital weapon/item pickups after you kill them so they can never again fight you on an even playing field.  Is it fair that a player who has already died should be further punished by respawning in a weaker state then the person who just killed them?  I don't think most people would say that's "fair" which is why there was/is a fairly popular competitive quake 3 mod (Rocket Area) that removed item pickups and and made players spawn fully equipped after death. 

I don't know which was a better game but as far as I can tell vanilla Quake with it's "unfair" respawning system has lived on longer and stronger then Rocket Arena.

 

Personally I had a BLAST with weapon pick ups and never felt that the player with two primary weapons had an unfair or unearned advantage and I was disappointed when it was removed.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Someone

[Spudinskes 41]

I think the thread started off on the wrong foot. The OP should have suggested the weapon drop mechanic with some modifications like only being able to have one primary, the weapon you trade disappears (to avoid having an arsenal on the ground), and fixing the performance issues guns on the floor presented.

 

I think a lot of people are hung up on the actual old mechanic that was, from what I read, actually broken. Being able to carry two primaries? Broken. Bad performance, no good. But if fixes to these issues were suggested in the beginning of the thread we could have started on step 1 rather than step -2. Because now people, who have just read the topic name and OP, are posting about the broken-ness of the old drop system. I agree with them on their points, the old system should never be re-introduced in the state that it is right now.

[Zealocke 53]

How about just dropping ammo for the primary weapon?

 

Psd: i wouldnt mind a system where you can impound/steal enemy vehicles for money but with a slow timer and the ability to retaliate from the owner.

[Dopefish 248]

1 hour ago, Spudinskes said:

I think the thread started off on the wrong foot. The OP should have suggested the weapon drop mechanic with some modifications like only being able to have one primary, the weapon you trade disappears (to avoid having an arsenal on the ground), and fixing the performance issues guns on the floor presented.

I don't remember it causing any performance issues, but there were definitely issues with the old system. However, I believe it would be a huge improvement for the game with only some minor tweaks to it;

 

Whenever you pickup another primary weapon, you would drop yours instead. Weapons maintain the ammo of their former owners, so it might need reloading or refilling after being picked up. Weapon are kept until player death or it being switched again. Dropped weapon would despawn pretty quickly. There could be a keybind to allow for manually dropping your own weapon, in case you wanting to switch with your teammates.

 

For some reason alot of the APB community are very conservative when it comes to changes to the game, even those that would severely improve it. This would add alot more dynamic gameplay, help players understand the difference between weapons better, which would then reduce the amount of P2W speculation and give incentive for people to purchase the weapons they might've tried this way. Not to mention the earlier examples which would improve the balance for the attacking team.

 

I've linked this video below with the time where the old pickup system is being showcased. I've just picked up a JG off a guy I killed, and then I switch to a STAC 10 from the next guy I kill:

 

EDIT:

12 hours ago, Someone said:

It was a GREAT mechanic but I remember the most hated thing about it was IIRC that you would pick up two primary weapons if you dropped your secondary.

You didn't drop your own primary when you picked up the other players weapon, so you would literally be holding two primaries, until you switched to your secondary, which would then drop the weapon you picked up. So you could simply empty the mag of one primary, cycle the secondary to drop it, and then be holding your old primary with another full mag.

 

This allowed for some terribly unbalanced gameplay where someone could be holding both a HVR and an OCA, and is probably one of the biggest reasons why people are opposed to this system.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Dopefish

[Zealocke 53]

14 minutes ago, Dopefish said:

Whenever you pickup another primary weapon, you would drop yours instead. Weapons maintain the ammo of their former owners, so it might need reloading or refilling after being picked up. Weapon are kept until player death or it being switched again. Dropped weapon would despawn pretty quickly. There could be a keybind to allow for manually dropping your own weapon, in case you wanting to switch with your teammates.

 

For some reason alot of the APB community are very conservative when it comes to changes to the game, even those that would severely improve it. This would add alot more dynamic gameplay, help players understand the difference between weapons better, which would then reduce the amount of P2W speculation and give incentive for people to purchase the weapons they might've tried this way. Not to mention the earlier examples which would improve the balance for the attacking team.

 

This.

Really guys, whats the problem with wanting changes into the game. Sure some ideas are better than others, but most of the time you think we want changes cause we installed yesterday and we didnt liked a gun. Cut the toxic, please.

 

We want the game to be improved for everyone, not for just us. 

Edited June 16, 2018 by Zealocke

[vsb 6171]

2 hours ago, Dopefish said:

I don't remember it causing any performance issues, but there were definitely issues with the old system. However, I believe it would be a huge improvement for the game with only some minor tweaks to it;

 

Whenever you pickup another primary weapon, you would drop yours instead. Weapons maintain the ammo of their former owners, so it might need reloading or refilling after being picked up. Weapon are kept until player death or it being switched again. Dropped weapon would despawn pretty quickly. There could be a keybind to allow for manually dropping your own weapon, in case you wanting to switch with your teammates.

 

For some reason alot of the APB community are very conservative when it comes to changes to the game, even those that would severely improve it. This would add alot more dynamic gameplay, help players understand the difference between weapons better, which would then reduce the amount of P2W speculation and give incentive for people to purchase the weapons they might've tried this way. Not to mention the earlier examples which would improve the balance for the attacking team.

 

I've linked this video below with the time where the old pickup system is being showcased. I've just picked up a JG off a guy I killed, and then I switch to a STAC 10 from the next guy I kill:

 

EDIT:

You didn't drop your own primary when you picked up the other players weapon, so you would literally be holding two primaries, until you switched to your secondary, which would then drop the weapon you picked up. So you could simply empty the mag of one primary, cycle the secondary to drop it, and then be holding your old primary with another full mag.

 

This allowed for some terribly unbalanced gameplay where someone could be holding both a HVR and an OCA, and is probably one of the biggest reasons why people are opposed to this system.

i just don’t see it being well balanced, what’s to stop you from leaving a cqc gun next to you, tagging an enemy with something long ranged, then quickly swapping guns and rushing?

 

the scenario of two primaries isn’t really changed if you drop your primary, it just requires you to either time movement right or stay on top of a dropped gun

[SelttikS 224]

Maybe have this as a small Fight Club setup, maybe for when the Enf base map comes out..... oh yeah, sad now

[ElectroStingz 53]

With the correct rule set in place it can work.

• If you pick up a weapon, there is a 10 second delay before you can drop / pickup again.
• If you pickup / drop your ammo box cannot be used to equip until you die.
• Re-supplies ammo only.
• So a player dies,
• You pick up the weapon. (10 sec timer)
• Your current weapon drops. (5 sec timer)
• You cannot use an ammo box to equip. (restriction)
• You are allowed to acquire ammo only.
• Cycle repeats unti you die.

You are allowed to drop a weapon, give to a friend. (Only the 5 sec timer starts as you didnt pickup)
Now you have no weapon and cannot use the ammo box to equip (restriction)
You are allowed to pick up a weapon, eg if above friend wants to swap. (10 sec timer for both)
Both players now are stuck with weapons until they either pickup another weapon or die.
If they want to swap back, after waiting 10 seconds they can but restrictions will remain in place.

Should solve most problems?
The moment you pick up and drop, you can only acquire ammo.
Dropping will only start the 5 seconds timer, safe guard in the event someone drops their gun and wants to pick up again.
The moment you pick up the 10 seconds timer starts.
No one can camp with shotgun / sniper.
Fair to an extent, you can at least acquire ammo.

Or block ammo completely which would mean you better think twice about using the feature?

[CookiePuss 5378]

Plz no. 

[Dopefish 248]

28 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

i just don’t see it being well balanced, what’s to stop you from leaving a cqc gun next to you, tagging an enemy with something long ranged, then quickly swapping guns and rushing?

 

the scenario of two primaries isn’t really changed if you drop your primary, it just requires you to either time movement right or stay on top of a dropped gun

The system would be terrible if you don't properly switch out your primary. Could make weapons despawn alot faster, so they only lie on the ground 5-10 seconds. If that's not enough by itself, there could be a limit for how many times you switch a weapon before the other one despawns entirely.

 

I'm perfectly fine with if a CQC player runs up and kills a long range enemy, takes his weapon and fires off a few shots before switching back and attacking. What would be bad is when someone would be camping with two weapons constantly at the ready.

 

16 minutes ago, ElectroStingz said:

With the correct rule set in place it can work.

• If you pick up a weapon, there is a 10 second delay before you can drop / pickup again.
• If you pickup / drop your ammo box cannot be used to equip until you die.
• Re-supplies ammo only.
• So a player dies,
• You pick up the weapon. (10 sec timer)
• Your current weapon drops. (5 sec timer)
• You cannot use an ammo box to equip. (restriction)
• You are allowed to acquire ammo only.
• Cycle repeats unti you die.

I don't think it would be good with a delay to when you can drop or pickup weapons, especially if you would pick up a weapon by mistake, or pick one with little to no ammo left in it. That system wouldn't feel very intuitive either, and if you weren't aware of those rules it would feel weird why you were unable to perform certain actions. This could be alleviated a bit with proper UI feedback though.

 

Though if you can manually drop weapons (for your teammates and such), there need to be some restriction that prevents you from simply standing next to an ammo resupply and spam drops. Maybe have a restriction like you said, that prevents players from equipping new weapons from resupply sources for like 10 seconds after dropping or picking up a weapon?

[Someone 1]

5 hours ago, Dopefish said:

You didn't drop your own primary when you picked up the other players weapon, so you would literally be holding two primaries, until you switched to your secondary, which would then drop the weapon you picked up. So you could simply empty the mag of one primary, cycle the secondary to drop it, and then be holding your old primary with another full mag.

 

This allowed for some terribly unbalanced gameplay where someone could be holding both a HVR and an OCA, and is probably one of the biggest reasons why people are opposed to this system.

I only remember picking up two primary weapons that I could switch freely between and even resupply but I had to drop my secondary weapon, Also if I switched to my secondary weapon before dying I would't drop my primary weapon.  I can't remember if I then dropped my secondary weapon but I think I seen people with two secondary weapons.

 

I disagree that it was unbalanced and in fact I must insist that it added so much to the game people got mad because it made the game "less causal".

Thinking and remembering about what it took to get the OCA + HVR combo, Getting two complementary primary weapons like that meant someone had to choose a risky but rewarding engagement.

 

-If you had an OCA you needed to kill the HVR user before they switched to their secondary weapon, Which is not easy because even assuming you get within range to use your OCA on the HVR user they will for certain switch to their secondary weapon to fight you.

 

-If you had an HVR you had to to kill the OCA user at a range that gave you time to pick up their OCA, That usually meant you had to fight the OCA user with your secondary weapon because he HVR slowed you down too much and you don't want to drop the HVR.

 

I personally don't recall feeling that the HVR + OCA combo was overpowered or unfair, Fighting them wasn't different from fighting a person equipped with just and OCA or just and HVR.  Sure a good HVR user in an excellent position was even harder to dislodge if they also had an OCA, But them having an OCA didn't really matter as it was their ability with the HVR that made them powerful not the OCA.  On the flip side someone with an OCA + HVR was actually less powerful at close range then OCA + a typical secondary weapon but more far flexible at holding positions then OCA + secondary weapon.  Really that just shows that the HVR is a little too good as it does slightly more damage then it needs to.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2018 by Someone

[ElectroStingz 53]

3 hours ago, Dopefish said:

I don't think it would be good with a delay to when you can drop or pickup weapons, especially if you would pick up a weapon by mistake, or pick one with little to no ammo left in it. That system wouldn't feel very intuitive either, and if you weren't aware of those rules it would feel weird why you were unable to perform certain actions. This could be alleviated a bit with proper UI feedback though.

 

Though if you can manually drop weapons (for your teammates and such), there need to be some restriction that prevents you from simply standing next to an ammo resupply and spam drops. Maybe have a restriction like you said, that prevents players from equipping new weapons from resupply sources for like 10 seconds after dropping or picking up a weapon?

Yes different ideas need trialing out, I'm thinking more along the lines of a system that makes the player consider their actions and consequences that may arise.

Edited June 16, 2018 by ElectroStingz

[Deathshow99 10]

Firstly, i apologize for starting this thread on the wrong foot. I should've stated some facts and pros/cons, but i wasn't thinking that much when i was posting( you can even see at what time the thread was posted). But i agree with @Dopefish when he wrote:

11 hours ago, Dopefish said:

For some reason alot of the APB community are very conservative when it comes to changes to the game, even those that would severely improve it. This would add alot more dynamic gameplay, help players understand the difference between weapons better, which would then reduce the amount of P2W speculation and give incentive for people to purchase the weapons they might've tried this way. Not to mention the earlier examples which would improve the balance for the attacking team.

I think the community got used to not recieving any changes in the game for a long period of time( there's all the negativity about BE ). Thats why everybody is so protective but cmon guys, don't you agree we need at least some changes to the game?

As somebody stated if you want a gun or a sking go buy it yourself... Well not everybody is in a position to do so. For example not everybody has a monthly salary of 1k+$/€. In my country for instance (Serbia) we get roughly 300€ a month, so do your own calculations...

I remember when this mechanic first got introduced i was extremly happy when i got to use somebody else's premium or legendary weapon (Don't remember if secundary's were dropped though). As this thread recieved so much negativity and thats not good for the community now, I would like to ask @Lixil or somebody of the mods to once again, close my thread. Im asking this for a reason because i feel like i started a fight after i read all the reply's i can see thats it's bot worth to ask for a change in game mechanics because everybody will just protect apb as it is now.

 

Cheers, Deathshow

[vsb 6171]

8 minutes ago, Deathshow99 said:

Firstly, i apologize for starting this thread on the wrong foot. I should've stated some facts and pros/cons, but i wasn't thinking that much when i was posting( you can even see at what time the thread was posted). But i agree with @Dopefish when he wrote:

I think the community got used to not recieving any changes in the game for a long period of time( there's all the negativity about BE ). Thats why everybody is so protective but cmon guys, don't you agree we need at least some changes to the game?

As somebody stated if you want a gun or a sking go buy it yourself... Well not everybody is in a position to do so. For example not everybody has a monthly salary of 1k+$/€. In my country for instance (Serbia) we get roughly 300€ a month, so do your own calculations...

I remember when this mechanic first got introduced i was extremly happy when i got to use somebody else's premium or legendary weapon (Don't remember if secundary's were dropped though). As this thread recieved so much negativity and thats not good for the community now, I would like to ask @Lixil or somebody of the mods to once again, close my thread. Im asking this for a reason because i feel like i started a fight after i read all the reply's i can see thats it's bot worth to ask for a change in game mechanics because everybody will just protect apb as it is now.

 

Cheers, Deathshow

whats the point in starting a discussion if you're just going to end it when people disagree?

 

aside from the usual special ed rejects theres not even any real "toxic" posts or anything

[Deathshow99 10]

7 hours ago, BXNNXD said:

whats the point in starting a discussion if you're just going to end it when people disagree?

 

aside from the usual special ed rejects theres not even any real "toxic" posts or anything

I'm not ending it because people disagree, i'm ending it because clearly nobody want's that mechanic, just like everything else. I never said anything about toxicity, i understand the negativity about the mechanic, just dont want people arguing about something thats probably never gonna be in the game.

@Lixil decide yourself if the post needs locking down, nobody broke any rules so i will be fine if the post stays active, but i don't think there's anything more to discuss about the matter.

[Zolerox 564]

How about... Only in fightclub? Make it a beacon ruleset.

Edited June 17, 2018 by Zolerox

[Guest]

Honestly, I dont see why it was removed. I personally loved it because you had to think a little harder when choosing that broken patootie OCA and giving it to an Volcano user

 

 

Also happy 666th post to myself

Edited June 17, 2018 by Guest

[neophobia 216]

6 hours ago, Deathshow99 said:

I'm not ending it because people disagree, i'm ending it because clearly nobody want's that mechanic, just like everything else.@Lixil

quite some people were positive about it - but not in the old state

so arguments/discussion about how to change it are quite good

 

(sorry lixil, can't remove the tag from the quote for some reason)