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TzickyT

My thoughts about the guns

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personaly im not a genius comapred to guns and stuff but i got my list what i think about the changes

 

PMG - i think its nerfed to much seeing that back 
in the day we had the oca or the pmg we could take
basicly the preference of the player would go to one of 
these guns.

right now the oca got buffed while the pmg got demolished
it would be intresting to see those 2 guns be on equal 
destination in a further balancing group.
for example removing the effective range compared to the
oca is a bit much 35-20 would be better if it was 25 or 30
also i think 

 

Colby snr - personaly when playing the colby snr the only thing that 
was intresting was the fast equip time with that gun
seeing this gun being nerfed to 0.5 i think takes away 
the possibility to make this gun stil viable in any 
combat situation. having this at a 0.3 would make 
for me more sence. and it wil stil be possible to e
played.

 

PIG - i see a lot of people cry about the stabba pig.
seeing the stamina damage from 950-675 is a big hit
but an understandable hit. stil to satisfy a lot of
peopel i would maybe up it to 700 maybe 750 but 675 is
to less

 

Manic - the manic is a gun that needed to be nerfed but now i
feel like that gun is personaly a bit to much spread
compared with every gun while jumping. upgrading the 
accuricy while jumping wiht 200% to nerf it is a 
huge change. putting it on just a 4 would be in my view
enough.

 

Act 44 - how much i love my act 44 the nerf or range i can 
understand but the nerf on the equip time just makes me
irritated. getting an equip of 0.9 is so huge and 
makes this guns pick unreliable and useless

 

colby RSA - i never seen played ... so i don't know why 
so many nerfes would be needed for this gun. 

 

bottem line from this full list - The .45 AP and the FBW are the only secondary guns worth playing whitout mentioning the stabba secondary's. and i find that a bit to less variety right now. 

 

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6 hours ago, TzickyT said:

PMG - i think its nerfed to much seeing that back 
in the day we had the oca or the pmg we could take
basicly the preference of the player would go to one of 
these guns.

You might feel this way but the PMG was the clear choice for anyone that valued performance, now instead of one SMG doing everything they were split up into 3 main archetypes (OCA / SD OCA / PMG) that all do different things and have different strengths and weaknesses.

 

6 hours ago, TzickyT said:

Colby snr - personaly when playing the colby snr the only thing that 
was intresting was the fast equip time with that gun
seeing this gun being nerfed to 0.5 i think takes away 
the possibility to make this gun stil viable in any 
combat situation. having this at a 0.3 would make 
for me more sence. and it wil stil be possible to e
played.

This was a nerf to JG Snubbing which achieved a .1 ttk which was absolutely broken if played properly, the snub is a bad gun but that was aknowledged plenty of times throughout the past weeks.

 

6 hours ago, TzickyT said:

Manic - the manic is a gun that needed to be nerfed but now i
feel like that gun is personaly a bit to much spread
compared with every gun while jumping.

Manic meta is HS3 / Mob Sling and no red mod, give that a shot and you'll have much much better results. The gun still effectively reaches 25-30 meters in full auto with laserbeam accuracy (better than the OCA Whisper)

 

6 hours ago, TzickyT said:

Act 44 - how much i love my act 44 the nerf or range i can 
understand but the nerf on the equip time just makes me
irritated. getting an equip of 0.9 is so huge and 
makes this guns pick unreliable and useless

The equip time change was to put it in line with the RSA in terms of equip time but this has been a common complaint so I think something should be done here.

 

6 hours ago, TzickyT said:

colby RSA - i never seen played ... so i don't know why 
so many nerfes would be needed for this gun. 

Just because the RSA got 3 MINOR nerfs and 1 absolutely MAJOR buff doesn't mean it was nerfed. In our playtests the RSA with just the buff was completely insane and effortlessly outshot guns especially if cover was involved.

 

I'll go into the changes here some more since the RSA being nerfed is an extremely common complaint which shows that some people haven't tried the gun or played it prior to the changes. 

 

I'll start with the big one: 

 

  • Delay before bloom begins to recover: 0.5 -> 0.3 (Buff)

This makes it so the RSA can be fired at its maximum fire rate something that was not possible without having absolutely terrible accuracy prior to this patch which made it much closer to a 2.2-2.5 TTK. This patch allowed it to kill any players within 70 meters in 1.7 seconds which combined with its ability to shoot perfectly accurate on the move allowed it to easily take fights with Rifles provided the RSA user had cover. 

 

Now to the nerfs:

  • Fire interval: 0.85 -> 0.9 (Nerf)

Like mentioned above with the Bloom Recovery buff the RSA was able to kill players much much faster than it could previously so this was done to nerf its TTK to 1.8 (from 1.7) which is still much faster than previously on Live but solidified it more as a secondary weapon.

 

  • Accuracy while walking: 1.2 -> 1.75 (Nerf)

This makes it so it loses a slight bit more accuracy while in marksman ship mode, this was done to keep it more stationary on range to and weaken its strength of "corner popping" making it so it requires better positioning and leaning if you want to do so.

 

  • Accuracy while running (not sprint): 2 -> 2.5 (Nerf)

This means that its accuracy on the move in hipfire is a good bit worse, this was done because at some point during playtesting we started to run JG / RSA as a setup which enabled another form of quickswitch as opening the fight with the RSA in hipfire due to its godly hipfire accuracy enabled a 1 shot by the JG. If executed perfectly this resulted in a ttk thats around .49-.55 which is a good bit faster than using the JG regularly. 

 

Hopefully this clears some things up and keep the feedback coming 😃

Edited by Frosi
Typo x.x
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6 hours ago, Frosi said:

This was a nerf to JG Snubbing which achieved a .1 ttk which was absolutely broken if played properly, the snub is a bad gun but that was aknowledged plenty of times throughout the past weeks.

 

lazy nerf, should just add a bolt timer to shotguns to prevent quickswitching. problem solved, now the snub isnt useless for literally every other gun except the JG.

 

bolt timer/pump timer mechanic isn't used enough in this game, there are weapons that are naturally more powerful when quickswitching, you cant just nerf a sidearm that is only powerful when using these specific weapons, when the sidearm itself isn't that remarkable to begin with.

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Giving your opinion is illegal



idk why they buffed the oca and nerfed the pmg

oca was fine but the result of it's nerf is part of the reason the pmg became so strong.

So why buff one but nerf the other? 

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4 hours ago, R3ACT3M said:

idk why they buffed the oca and nerfed the pmg

oca was fine but the result of it's nerf is part of the reason the pmg became so strong.

So why buff one but nerf the other? 

They messed up, pmg is shit and oca is.. probably where it should have been from the start. If they revert the pmg nerf, everything will be fine.

 

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35 minutes ago, ColorBauss said:

They messed up, pmg is shit and oca is.. probably where it should have been from the start. If they revert the pmg nerf, everything will be fine.

 

 

PMG needed a nerf to be better aligned with the oca but all they did was switch it so now the OCA is the meta and the pmg is still good, but not as.

Edited by R3ACT3M
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Never seen nobody complaining about pmg before untill they nerfed shit out of oca so all pmg and oca users began to use pmg only which resulted in a false impression that pmg is op cuz there were so many. Just like they moaned about ntec

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They need to stop fine tuning guns that are already fine and focus on making like half the guns usable. Sbsr, cobra, norseman, revelations guns (especially harbinger). So many guns that are just garbage but nevermind that, let's just change the max-bloom of ntec some inconsequential amount, give obir a bolt timer and make the worst secondary in the game even worse (snr). Good job guys.

Edited by ColorBauss
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2 hours ago, ColorBauss said:

They need to stop fine tuning guns that are already fine and focus on making like half the guns usable. Sbsr, cobra, norseman, revelations guns (especially harbinger). So many guns that are just garbage but nevermind that, let's just change the max-bloom of ntec some inconsequential amount, give obir a bolt timer and make the worst secondary in the game even worse (snr). Good job guys.

PMG nerf is what I saw as nice, but yea i concur 

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TzickyT, The PMG needed to be nerfed i used to use it as a ntec that weapon is hella broken so its good they changed it like that.

And honestly im happy about the weapons now.

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I mentioned this to a few people before... but the patch notes stating "Nerf" after entries describing a reduction of a weapon stat isn't good because the word nerf isn't the opposite of buff and means "cause to be weak or ineffective" which brings some people to usually incorrectly conclude that the weapon itself has been actually nerfed when all it is is usually a slight decrease in one or more weapon stats which isn't particularly noticeable and which does not cause a weapon nerf at all, while the word "buff" is accurate when describing increases in weapon stats, as it means roughly "to improve" or "to make more powerful".

It some times causes misenterpretation which leads to premature complaints (I'm not saying this is the case for the original post in this thread).

Since we want people to try the changes before making too much judgement, this should be looked at, also because it's such a small thing to change in the future. It could say for instance: Increase / Decrease instead.

Edited by Cr0
clarification
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4 hours ago, Cr0 said:

 the patch notes stating "Nerf" after entries describing a reduction of a weapon stat isn't good because the word nerf isn't the opposite of buff and means "cause to be weak or ineffective" which brings some people to usually incorrectly conclude that the weapon itself has been actually nerfed when all it is is usually a slight decrease in one or more weapon stats which isn't particularly noticeable and which does not cause a weapon nerf at all

Weapon loses accuracy? Makes gun more ineffective

Drop-off range reduced? Makes gun more ineffective

Bolt timer added like with obir? Makes gun more ineffective

seems like the correct use of nerf to me

Edited by ColorBauss
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Most problem in the Weapon System of APB is, there is only one system that is important.

TTK = Time to Kill

 

That means there are no other options (another hit boxes) and other effects to make the combat more flexible.

Also there are no supporter Weapons in the game they can deal "other damage stats".

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2 hours ago, Todesklinge said:

Most problem in the Weapon System of APB is, there is only one system that is important.

TTK = Time to Kill

 

That means there are no other options (another hit boxes) and other effects to make the combat more flexible.

Also there are no supporter Weapons in the game they can deal "other damage stats".

what if every gun had the same ttk, but was balanced by other means? So that way each gun could be different but also have potential to fight every gun, so that way its player preference?

with some exceptions of course

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Since my post was deleted. I disagree completely.

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5 hours ago, ColorBauss said:

Weapon loses accuracy? Makes gun more ineffective

Drop-off range reduced? Makes gun more ineffective

Bolt timer added like with obir? Makes gun more ineffective

seems like the correct use of nerf to me

 

It's almost like you didn't read my post.

 

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On 9/23/2020 at 3:16 PM, R3ACT3M said:

Giving your opinion is illegal

idk why they buffed the oca and nerfed the pmg

oca was fine but the result of it's nerf is part of the reason the pmg became so strong.

So why buff one but nerf the other? 

they should have left OCA as is and nerfed the PMG, it was dumb imo to buff the OCA and nerf the PMG, when the issue was how strong the PMG was in the first place. Though i suppose the rebuffed the oca due to shotguns? Which was why they originally buffed it before they reverted it.

 

PMG needed the nerf,  though i agree other weapon changes seem... dumb, like the snubs equip time instead of shotgun "bolt timer" etc. It would be honestly funny if they made it so if you didn't pump the shotgun and went pistol, you have to repump it before firing again if there were rounds left.

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6 hours ago, R3ACT3M said:

what if every gun had the same ttk, but was balanced by other means? So that way each gun could be different but also have potential to fight every gun, so that way its player preference?

with some exceptions of course

Its hard to tell this to the community.

 

But thats a problem why some weapons are Meta-Weapons with this minimalized combat system.

Just for an example:

- Bulletproof Vest for personal protection.

- Armor piercing ammo.

- High Velocity ammo.

- Low velocity ammo.

- Bouncing ammo.

- Poison ammo.

 

There are more ways to give weaker weapons more alternative solutions, instead of just adjust the TTK... buff/nerfing accuracy etc. is just a to weaken fix.

Also if you are weaken the accuracy = lesser ttk, another weapon takes its place = rebalancing needed.

 

Additional Hitboxes for more different results of gameplay. If you hit the enemys weapon arm, the enemys accuracy is reduces... with your weak gun (compared to other).

Thats means, a weak gun can get very powerfull in teamplay!

 

But actually, everyone takes the weapon with best TTK = unbalanced and boring gameplay.

 

There are very much more other important things in combination, but this is a very friendly and easy ro understand info for the regular community here.

 

Most players are thinking "new content" is just a few new maps, missions, contacts... thats wrong!

Its the regular gameplay rework in combination with new map, contacts, clanwar, better teamplay, more and high quality missions and some other effects (like weather etc.).

 

 

APB is a very old and hard damaged house... just fix it, dont stops the ruin.

Make it new and better (Unreal Engine 4 -> 5).

I like APB very much but its realy total outdated... take a look to Star Citizen (general look not just a starship gsme) or GTA 5/6 and compare this with APB 2.0... this is not a hate, but gaming is changing you understand?

Stay still and the end is near.

Edited by Todesklinge
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2 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

they should have left OCA as is and nerfed the PMG, it was dumb imo to buff the OCA and nerf the PMG, when the issue was how strong the PMG was in the first place. Though i suppose the rebuffed the oca due to shotguns? Which was why they originally buffed it before they reverted it.

 

PMG needed the nerf,  though i agree other weapon changes seem... dumb, like the snubs equip time instead of shotgun "bolt timer" etc. It would be honestly funny if they made it so if you didn't pump the shotgun and went pistol, you have to repump it before firing again if there were rounds left.

I guess on paper it might sound stupid, but I believe they tested the oca up against the pmg and maybe they thought this was a good balance (at least thats what i hope) *shrug*

2 hours ago, Todesklinge said:

Its hard to tell this to the community.

 

But thats a problem why some weapons are Meta-Weapons with this minimalized combat system.

Just for an example:

- Bulletproof Vest for personal protection.

- Armor piercing ammo.

- High Velocity ammo.

- Low velocity ammo.

- Bouncing ammo.

- Poison ammo.

 

There are more ways to give weaker weapons more alternative solutions, instead of just adjust the TTK... buff/nerfing accuracy etc. is just a to weaken fix.

Also if you are weaken the accuracy = lesser ttk, another weapon takes its place = rebalancing needed.

 

Additional Hitboxes for more different results of gameplay. If you hit the enemys weapon arm, the enemys accuracy is reduces... with your weak gun (compared to other).

Thats means, a weak gun can get very powerfull in teamplay!

 

But actually, everyone takes the weapon with best TTK = unbalanced and boring gameplay.

 

There are very much more other important things in combination, but this is a very friendly and easy ro understand info for the regular community here.

 

Most players are thinking "new content" is just a few new maps, missions, contacts... thats wrong!

Its the regular gameplay rework in combination with new map, contacts, clanwar, better teamplay, more and high quality missions and some other effects (like weather etc.).

 

 

APB is a very old and hard damaged house... just fix it, dont stops the ruin.

Make it new and better (Unreal Engine 4 -> 5).

I like APB very much but its realy total outdated... take a look to Star Citizen (general look not just a starship gsme) or GTA 5/6 and compare this with APB 2.0... this is not a hate, but gaming is changing you understand?

Stay still and the end is near.

I had made the point before that APB's combat is outdated, like why do cardboard boxes stop bullets? A proper penetration system would be great! I mean the cap40 already demonstrates this concept.

Another part is back in the day apb would be an mmo. but since battle royals are pushing the 80 player per server thing. APB's combat just needs to be renewed without totally changing the gameplay feel.

Then again, APB's simple combat setup is appealing in a way.

The biggest issue with having real hitboxes is everyone would have to be the same height and possibly weight

I thought since everyone's feet are generally in the same spot you could make the lower part of the basic hitbox deal less damage. 

LO atm just needs to untangle the code that is APB Live. Then maybe we can see more modern gunplay.

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Hitbox adjustment is very easy to fix.

Its scale size of the character, its scaled health pool.

A standard size of an player with 2 metee high =  (multi 1x) 1000 HP (we actually have).

If your character get smaller, your health pool automaticly decrease with your size.

 

Smaller size = smaller hitbox = smaller ammount of health.

The lower the size so more health you lose.

On the smalles size and hitbox you have just 500-600 HP, but +10% more movement speed.

But you become a little bit more movement speed as re-compensation.

 

If you are getting higher in its size, you get more health and a biger hitbox, the higher you get your movement speed is more decreased.

On the biggest size with biggest hitbox you have 1400-1600 HP and -10-20% movement speed.

 

This gives every player more personal choise of gameplay.

 

Smaller targets are better to kill with SMGs and Shotguns.

Bigger targets with Rifle or Sniper Rifle.

Just for an easy example.

Edited by Todesklinge

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19 hours ago, Todesklinge said:

 

- Bouncing ammo.

- Poison ammo.

Are you still talking about APB??

 

19 hours ago, Todesklinge said:

 

But actually, everyone takes the weapon with best TTK = unbalanced and boring gameplay.

 

I don't see a lot of people playing Shaw? Which would make the missions a lot more exciting tbh. Does something like TTK even mean in (I guess bronze) anything??

19 hours ago, Todesklinge said:

 

Most players are thinking "new content" is just a few new maps, missions, contacts... thats wrong!

Its the regular gameplay rework in combination with new map, contacts, clanwar, better teamplay, more and high quality missions and some other effects (like weather etc.).

"Better teamplay, more and high quality missions" isn't new content, it's better gameplay, which they already try to fix with the new patches. Something like "weather" can wait a long time in APB, and then I don't even know, if it's suitable for APB. Small steps buddy.

 

19 hours ago, Todesklinge said:

 

Make it new and better (Unreal Engine 4 -> 5).

We are barely making it to 3.5, you need to start thinking realistic. 

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21 hours ago, Todesklinge said:

Hitbox adjustment is very easy to fix.

Its scale size of the character, its scaled health pool.

A standard size of an player with 2 metee high =  (multi 1x) 1000 HP (we actually have).

If your character get smaller, your health pool automaticly decrease with your size.

 

Smaller size = smaller hitbox = smaller ammount of health.

The lower the size so more health you lose.

On the smalles size and hitbox you have just 500-600 HP, but +10% more movement speed.

But you become a little bit more movement speed as re-compensation.

 

If you are getting higher in its size, you get more health and a biger hitbox, the higher you get your movement speed is more decreased.

On the biggest size with biggest hitbox you have 1400-1600 HP and -10-20% movement speed.

 

This gives every player more personal choise of gameplay.

 

Smaller targets are better to kill with SMGs and Shotguns.

Bigger targets with Rifle or Sniper Rifle.

Just for an easy example.

You always deliver best ideas, LO should hire you 🙂 

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10 hours ago, wHisHi said:

You always deliver best ideas, LO should hire you 🙂 

Luckyly... NO

 

I skipped in time after reading bouncing and poison ammo... 🥴

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3 hours ago, PingOVER9000 said:

Luckyly... NO

 

I skipped in time after reading bouncing and poison ammo... 🥴

Rare game have this, why he thinks apb should? rofl

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TBH i don't kno anymore at this point i said what i thought about the guns

On 9/24/2020 at 8:14 AM, Nocolor said:

TzickyT, The PMG needed to be nerfed i used to use it as a ntec that weapon is hella broken so its good they changed it like that.

And honestly im happy about the weapons now.

i m also happy about the guns how they are. but feel sad about certain guns changes

 

On 9/24/2020 at 4:49 PM, Todesklinge said:

Most problem in the Weapon System of APB is, there is only one system that is important.

TTK = Time to Kill

 

That means there are no other options (another hit boxes) and other effects to make the combat more flexible.

Also there are no supporter Weapons in the game they can deal "other damage stats".

TTK = meta .... so yes i can agree on that one

 

 

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