Battleye Ban Procedure

[Noob_Guardian 418]

10 hours ago, Mitne said:

Remember when LO took over and Matt tested FF? He got false banned himself during testing. I fear numbers of false bans was gigantic in retrospection (no proof of cheating other than some red flag raised in anti-cheat) and additional note: FF was set on manual mode for it's last 2 years, just giving away flags about suspicious activity.

I fear whoever was deciding bans just banned whatever was flagged and unbanned whoever they saw fit. Disgusting.

 

 

If you're testing FF to see how it bans, then you'd know what makes you get banned and try to achieve it. Isn't that what testing is? Not only that, if some of the "best" players on Jericho weren't falsely banned, some of which have near cheater like skill whom you'd assume cheated or would trigger FF, I find it hard to believe that anyone legitimately got banned. (without first knowing how to trigger it and test for it)

Edited July 9, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[vsb 6174]

1 hour ago, badass1234 said:

To me this looks like just another company that wants to make money with as low effort as possible.

seems like a dumb statement 

 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2020 by 404
doubles

[Mitne 724]

12 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

 

If you're testing FF to see how it bans, then you'd know what makes you get banned and try to achieve it. Isn't that what testing is? Not only that, if some of the "best" players on Jericho weren't falsely banned, some of which have near cheater like skill whom you'd assume cheated or would trigger FF, I find it hard to believe that anyone legitimately got banned. (without first knowing how to trigger it and test for it)

As stated before my only possible sin was getting out of bound once.

There is one problem, it was on completly different account - and that account didn't faced any consequences. Instead Mitne (my main) did. Strange red flag it would be, isn't it?

Other than that I can say with clean heart. I didn't used ANY external software while playing game. I had pretty standard background programs list (Explorer + some additional background ones, like Discord or Steam). Used advanced launcher but if that red flagged FF, then sorry - do you find FF reliable then?

I'm pretty sure any abnormality was red flagged. Who the fuck knows criteria, I assume FF was just going haywire in last years and G1 did shit to prevent that. Instead they used it as tool to ban people to show that "ye, we onto your cheater problem". As I pointed thousand times when G1 was developer and after, it was incompetent beyond belief. But if you research G1 background with others games - you will know why.

14 hours ago, xHenryman90x said:

I only remember him saying that after investigating the bans, he came to the conclusion that lot of them were questionably placed.

Sadly that thread disappeared along with old forums (there was that golden news that Matt FF got banned while testing FF - and if I remember correctly he done everything WITHIN game ONLY to get banned)... Here is though first Q&A of Matt With Kempington and SKay made transcript of it on this forums. Here's chosen fragment related to FF:

Quote

Q: Will there be unbans? Will it be a full reversal or partial reversal?

 

A: This is such a divisive issue. These last two weeks have been extremely busy for Little Orbit, especially with GDPR. What I did was sit on the customer support calls and worked through issues. We had FairFight auto-bans and I sat on the line with customers and logs, and we can clearly determine that there were improper bans. Those bans shouldn’t have been in place. It’s really hard for me to leave those bans in place. But I do want to say that this could raise issues of “oh these cheaters are bad” but specifically the bulk of the cheating bans are going to be reversed; the community is going to get a second chance. We’re not going to unban all players, for instance players committing credit card fraud, but we’re going to unban the majority of the bans. It’s going to be quite a bit of work trying to get the next patch out, but once that happens, and we get the updated FairFight with Battleye, there’s going to be unbans.

 

I did see in the stream, someone was mentioning the keys that were passed out and were the cause of a number of bans. We will be unbanning those players, I know they were linked to some credit card fraud and some other things. Again, looking back over the logs, looking back over that situation, I don’t think we can hold those players accountable. Obviously it was a murky situation, but they will be included in the unban. I honestly think that that sort of policy of in theory if you commit credit card fraud yourself and you need to bring your account back to balance, we understand that, that's the right way to handle it. You need to pay for something that you got and it's already on your account, you need to bring it back to balance. This case was such a different scenario, it wasn't handled well. So for me, look, I apologize to those players. Not all of them are scott-free or innocent, many of them knew at the time they were trying to collect these things and exploit. But it wasn't handled well by Gamersfirst.

Q&A Archive: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/265424620

Q&A Transcript: 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Mitne

[iMiss 49]

12 hours ago, badass1234 said:

Read the post by Sayori below. When another company takes over a project which is on the verge of dying - people expect them to take actions. I literally tried to contact LO in every single way possible, ticket, forum, steam, but guess what? NOTHING AT ALL 

Yes, ticket response time is behind, they know its not where it should ultimately be, and that can be seen in the thread. Some of the reasons why they get backed up are also mentioned in there too... if you ever looked. LO is taking actions, many. Or maybe you would prefer the (over) full year of complete and utter radio silence from G1 that we got that was only ended by the announcement of acquisition? If LO was out to make a buck with as little effort as possible they wouldn't have even acquired G1. They wouldn't have made balance changes and anticheat changes, and they certainly wouldn't be making weekly updates to both the state of customer support and the process of the engine upgrade, much less livestreamed Q&As. If LO were out to make a buck like old g1 was, the only things i could see they would have given you would've been the Yukon, let it sit in that broken release state for a whole year, then nerf it less than a month out from the Corsair. Nothing more, the game would still be on FairFight.

Support will get to you when it's your turn in line.

On 7/8/2020 at 9:09 AM, Sayori said:

My expectations happened - influx of cheaters, old names and "new" names, same people going 20+:1 in FCs.

I still see that guy whom I reported a while ago and got response you will investigate? Guess not going to happen since he's SPCT , right?

>20-1 and similar are not unreasonable scores. good scores, but not reason enough on their own. I have asylum screens going 52-7, 37-6, 17-0 and so on. They weren't every game of course, but they happen with some frequency.. Point is, a lot of people are way too eager to quote one's score as evidence, when it's neither here nor there... And then you go on to be accusatory, implying that the only reason the person you've reported isn't banned, is their SPCT status? Did you ever stop to think that since it's been a while since the report and response, and they're still here to possibly be signs they're infact, not a cheater? or perhaps that they're in the SPCT because they're an experienced veteran player familiar with the depth of how the game works?

Don't get me wrong here, it does appear that BE isn't quite the same caliber as EAC, but it's certainly a lot better than what we had before either of them - and i have some confidence that with 3.5 not being a cobbled mess, the anti-cheat can also safely be a bit more aggressive.. but that's to be seen and is just my own speculation.

[DreAmGirL 24]

never had a single problem with any anty-cheat in my ~23 year history of gaming. I guess not using any wird programs is a solution for that.

[Noob_Guardian 418]

On 7/10/2020 at 4:56 AM, Mitne said:

As stated before my only possible sin was getting out of bound once.

There is one problem, it was on completly different account - and that account didn't faced any consequences. Instead Mitne (my main) did. Strange red flag it would be, isn't it?

Other than that I can say with clean heart. I didn't used ANY external software while playing game. I had pretty standard background programs list (Explorer + some additional background ones, like Discord or Steam). Used advanced launcher but if that red flagged FF, then sorry - do you find FF reliable then?

I'm pretty sure any abnormality was red flagged. Who the fuck knows criteria, I assume FF was just going haywire in last years and G1 did shit to prevent that. Instead they used it as tool to ban people to show that "ye, we onto your cheater problem". As I pointed thousand times when G1 was developer and after, it was incompetent beyond belief. But if you research G1 background...

 

G1 had used it for manual bans, and the system and players were doing flagging. They never said anything about automatic to my knowledge. They used FF i think? to ban all those who did the social exploit crashes and such. I think there were only a handful of cases where players weren't listed as "FF Ban" when banned by the end. So im not sure how it could have picked up on you unless it was something manual from another player reporting, or like, facing bronzes all day and  just not missing because they're piss ez to take out and having an inflated k/d and miss %.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[Mitne 724]

9 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

G1 had used it for manual bans, and the system and players were doing flagging. They never said anything about automatic to my knowledge. They used FF i think? to ban all those who did the social exploit crashes and such. I think there were only a handful of cases where players weren't listed as "FF Ban" when banned by the end. So im not sure how it could have picked up on you unless it was something manual from another player reporting, or like, facing bronzes all day and  just not missing because they're piss ez to take out and having an inflated k/d and miss %.

Honestly I don't care what criteria they had in the end.

Fact is: There were a lot of controversal and unexplained bans.

[wHisHi 206]

3 hours ago, Mitne said:

Honestly I don't care what criteria they had in the end.

Fact is: There were a lot of controversal and unexplained bans.

Did they pronounce numbers of have many bans were made? I do remember they did that on some point, but stopped for whatever reason

[CookiePuss 5382]

1 hour ago, wHisHi said:

Did they pronounce numbers of have many bans were made? I do remember they did that on some point, but stopped for whatever reason

Total FF bans?

Like 16,000 or so.

Improper bans?

We won't know.

[wHisHi 206]

2 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Total FF bans?

Like 16,000 or so.

Improper bans?

We won't know.

Possible. I do remember some R255 getting banned literally while streaming. It was horrible

[Musul Man 60]

1 hour ago, wHisHi said:

Possible. I do remember some R255 getting banned literally while streaming. It was horrible

It is possible that false bans happened, since someone here said that Matt got himself banned while testing it. But I don't know if thats true, I'd like to see the post where he says this, and people also asked for it and there was no response so it could be fake.

Anyways remember that the goat did expose several streamers and SPCT members back in the day as hackers, and all of them were R255 or close, so neither being max rank nor a streamer excludes the person from being a closet cheater.

[Percocet 194]

nice now we have a crappy anti cheat so all the silvers think everyone is hacking cause of their bronze brains and are referencing your crappy false bans in the past of crappy players. then the actual crappy players of this crappy game get to see speedhacking return. sik

[vsb 6174]

4 minutes ago, Musul Man said:

It is possible that false bans happened, since someone here said that Matt got himself banned while testing it. But I don't know if thats true, I'd like to see the post where he says this, and people also asked for it and there was no response so it could be fake.

it came up in discussion on the unofficially official apb discord

 

there's also these quotes from the first q&a

Quote

[fairfight] has not been tuned for a year, and wasn’t being updated while the company was struggling.

Quote

We had FairFight auto-bans and I sat on the line with customers and logs, and we can clearly determine that there were improper bans. Those bans shouldn’t have been in place. It’s really hard for me to leave those bans in place.

 

[Sayori 311]

1 hour ago, 404 said:

it came up in discussion on the unofficially official apb discord

 

there's also these quotes from the first q&a

 

 

You forgot something very important, but it's ok, no need to post it because it's against your narrative I guess...

 

 

If this rule is so very specific that chances to trigger it are thinner than lottery, he knew about it, did what it had to be done.

And I'd say this was very rare rule to trigger considering majority of players didn't get banned but certain people...some over and over again.

This really invalidates the entire test...

But hey, lets keep getting things out of context.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Sayori

[Percocet 194]

why when they came back to apb over and over again do you assume they would change how they are playing/what they are doing kick rocks 

[vsb 6174]

3 minutes ago, Sayori said:

 

You forgot something very important, but it's ok, no need to post it because it's against your narrative I guess...

 

 

If this rule is so very specific that chances to trigger it are thinner than lottery, he knew about it, did what it had to be done.

And I'd say this was very rare rule to trigger considering majority of players didn't get banned but certain people...some over and over again.

This really invalidates the entire test...

But hey, lets keep getting things out of context.

my current "narrative" is just agreeing with little orbit that fairfight wasnt good enough lol

 

that specific trigger possibly being rare doesn't exactly stop it from being an issue, nor does it stop any possible other issues that ended up with orbit switching to another anticheat in the end

[Sayori 311]

9 minutes ago, 404 said:

my current "narrative" is just agreeing with little orbit that fairfight wasnt good enough lol

 

that specific trigger possibly being rare doesn't exactly stop it from being an issue, nor does it stop any possible other issues that ended up with orbit switching to another anticheat in the end

No, it wasn't good enough as server-side anti cheat is never going to be good enough.

 

If anything, those quotes from Matt Scott prove that FairFight WORKS because he managed to trigger some really stupid and rare rule by replicating the conditions that had to be made. Of course it's an issue, but since he doesn't say how many times it was triggered and by whom it's just not good to use the statement to prove whatever point.

So the issue is the rule, not like FairFight is not good.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Sayori

[Mitne 724]

8 hours ago, Sayori said:

 

You forgot something very important, but it's ok, no need to post it because it's against your narrative I guess...

 

 

So let me get it:

He looked up fairfight rules to know what properly triggers ban.

He then gives that message after being banned:

And then totally gets rid of FF because he by per rule got banned by it?

You do realize it sounds like bullshoot, do you? Pretty sure he looked up FF rules to know what should and what shouldn't ban. And for him to say such thing means he was banned OUTSIDE ruleset.

His "narrative" sticks.

8 hours ago, Sayori said:

If this rule is so very specific that chances to trigger it are thinner than lottery, he knew about it, did what it had to be done.

Clearly not since someone with zero experince whatsoever in playing APB could trigger it outside ruleset (but with a lot in bug testing).

8 hours ago, Sayori said:

And I'd say this was very rare rule to trigger considering majority of players didn't get banned but certain people...some over and over again.

We don't talk about players banned 20 times for cheating (although FF is known to have "blacklist" of players which were instant banned). We talk about players which were like me: Played properly, got banned like I would use some insane cheats. But hey, it's not only me: (pulled just from front of page) players such as MrAfroGer, Mooke or Snubnose. You can say honestly, here in front of us all - that they were cheaters?

8 hours ago, Sayori said:

This really invalidates the entire test...

But hey, lets keep getting things out of context.

The only guy who keeps it out of context so far is you. Don't try to justify outdated tool which ran on flags and manual bans as way to function.

If not for LO, this game would be dead by now and that's fact. I trust their judgement fully.

[CookiePuss 5382]

Fairfight sucked but Matt knew exactly what to do in order to trigger a ban. He wasn't just randomly banned while playing.

 

[Sayori 311]

6 hours ago, Mitne said:

So let me get it:

He looked up fairfight rules to know what properly triggers ban.

He then gives that message after being banned:

And then totally gets rid of FF because he by per rule got banned by it?

You do realize it sounds like bullshoot, do you? Pretty sure he looked up FF rules to know what should and what shouldn't ban. And for him to say such thing means he was banned OUTSIDE ruleset.

His "narrative" sticks.

Clearly not since someone with zero experince whatsoever in playing APB could trigger it outside ruleset (but with a lot in bug testing).

We don't talk about players banned 20 times for cheating (although FF is known to have "blacklist" of players which were instant banned). We talk about players which were like me: Played properly, got banned like I would use some insane cheats. But hey, it's not only me: (pulled just from front of page) players such as MrAfroGer, Mooke or Snubnose. You can say honestly, here in front of us all - that they were cheaters?

The only guy who keeps it out of context so far is you. Don't try to justify outdated tool which ran on flags and manual bans as way to function.

If not for LO, this game would be dead by now and that's fact. I trust their judgement fully.

 

He wasn't banned outside the ruleset at all, but the ruleset had stuff that probably shouldn't be there and he replicated the conditions. I've played(and majority of playerbase) under FairFight for thousands of hours and I never managed to trigger it so I'm just going to say that this is rare and if he didn't know the rules he would have never been banned(most likely)

 

Without clarification on what was the rule, how many people triggered the rule, how many times did they trigger it before getting banned(because bans were manual, except few), how many of them triggered other(proper) rules in combination, this statement is useless, it's a paperweight, stop throwing it around trying to discredit FairFight.

And just because someone didn't cheat on their main accounts, doesn't mean they didn't cheat on alts and got busted.

Btw playing properly doesn't include glitching under map during events. Just saying....in case you ever did that

 

[Salvick 248]

On 7/2/2020 at 5:34 PM, Sakebee said:

...via the forums or through Discord.

 

 

Thanks,

Sakebee

Hold on, so do we have the official APB Discord then? I would join that right away.

[Kevkof 806]

6 hours ago, Salvick said:

Hold on, so do we have the official APB Discord then? I would join that right away.

In their introduction and a few times since then they have posted their discord ID:

  

On 1/13/2020 at 8:49 PM, Sakebee said:

Feel free to reach out to me on the forums or at SakeBee#2553 on discord to say hi, and I look forward to helping rebuild APB alongside you all.