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Musul Man

Game is not balanced (Pro enforcer)

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9 minutes ago, Dasnya said:

I mean, I could try. The person I fought was a literal god with it.

1: He was definitely smart enough not to perc himself.
2: Worked a few times. I didn't have the opportunity to do this all the time.
3: Probably could have done that in hindsight, would only work IF I can land perfect shotgun hits in.
4: Not always possible.
5: Not always possible.
6: I'll be honest, I'm not sure what you mean here.


It just doesn't feel like it works as intended to me. Somebody with near-perfect aim can steamroll close-quarters objectives by just running in and near-instantly-stunning opposition. I'm not saying it's easy to do because I play both sides and the PIG is hard for me to use. But against someone who uses it perfectly and religiously, it just feels like I had much less of a chance if that makes sense. But if it's as viable to counter as you say, I would like to try and "git gud" and have some practice against it.

Any with the same skills would get you down anyways... remember this games has low ttk, around 0.7 (even less). You cant punish all players because a few have mastered a gun, or a "dirty" tactic.

Thats when you start realizing that playing in groups or depending more on your teammates is good against ltl. Even criminal side get rewarded fairly good for saving another criminal. Sometimes is better just to kill both criminal and enforcer to save a mission or a situation or prevent more damage.

 

Edited by LuzExtinguido

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5 minutes ago, LuzExtinguido said:

Any with the same skills would get you down anyways... remember this games has low ttk, around 0.7 (even less). You cant punish all players because a few have mastered a gun, or a "dirty" tactic.

Thats when you start realizing that playing in groups or depending more on your teammates is good against ltl. Even criminal side get rewarded fairly good for saving another criminal. Sometimes is better just to kill both criminal and enforcer to save a mission or a situation or prevent more damage.

 

I do beg to differ, because when my opposition is really good with a shotgun, if I die it feels like "Oh, I messed up. They had better aim than me and I should have killed them before they killed me." However, when the opposition is just as good with this combo, it feels like "There was literally nothing I could do. My gun is unable to kill them before the time it took for them to stun me. It was over the moment they saw me."

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9 minutes ago, Dasnya said:

I do beg to differ, because when my opposition is really good with a shotgun, if I die it feels like "Oh, I messed up. They had better aim than me and I should have killed them before they killed me." However, when the opposition is just as good with this combo, it feels like "There was literally nothing I could do. My gun is unable to kill them before the time it took for them to stun me. It was over the moment they saw me."

But then, that same player keeps killing you with shotgun... has better awareness, better reflex, better aim etc etc and you say "oh this player is indeed better than me, there is nothing i could do right now but get better in the game".

You can still play around cars... you can still use remote det that still working after u are stunned... you can still keep your distance... you can keep double perc them before attacking. If you keep with your pusillanimous excuses there is not much you can improve.

 

What prevents you to equip a nhvr, tag them first and perc them? You are making me think you are the problem but not the other player, you are llooking for way too many excuses to lead people to think "pig is op", "cop role is op" and increase the hysteria.

 

Edited by LuzExtinguido

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4 hours ago, LuzExtinguido said:

"I dont have fun with it, it should be removed."

Seriously???

 

Pls tell me this is bait.

 

This is what ive been saying for awhile already.

But there, have a thanks as incentive to improve in your wheelchair free parking.

what are u saying u aspie

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8 hours ago, Musul Man said:

There are things that must be fixed, that were never a good idea to begin with. Creating a big gap between Enforcers and Criminals, being beneficial only to enforcers. Like this game was planned to help enforcers from the start.

 

So far I have two aspects of the game that seem very unbalanced to me:

 

1- The non lethal weapons. Some are one shot stuns, others just stun faster than normal guns kill. Sometimes they even bug and end up killing you anyways. Overall no criminal is happy that these exist, mainly because we have nothing similar. IMHO it was a bad idea to add these, and now a fix will be difficult to find.

 

2- The cars. Some of the top tier police cars and vans have way more HP, weight and push than their criminal counterparts. That is about it. Of course the criminals can get these cars as well but not the same way. It's either with joker points or events like referral. And in most cases they can't be customized.

 

Does someone else agree on these points?

 

 

By the amount of downvotes you can see that seasoned players disagree with you.

 

I'll tell you why.

 

8 hours ago, Musul Man said:

1- The non lethal weapons. Some are one shot stuns, others just stun faster than normal guns kill. Sometimes they even bug and end up killing you anyways. Overall no criminal is happy that these exist, mainly because we have nothing similar. IMHO it was a bad idea to add these, and now a fix will be difficult to find.

LTL weapons are actually less effective than lethal counterparts in every way.  In original APB lethal weapons had a much slower TTK (time to kill), pretty much on par with current LTL weapons.  When G1 took over the devs started lowering the TTK for lethal weapons but never lowered the TTS (time to stun) of LTL weapons.  Basically what happened is that lethal weapons now kill much faster than LTL weapons can stun.

 

LTL weapons range was also nerfed with G1 took over.  Lethal weapons can have a range of 100+ meters.  LTL weapons, if I remember right, now have an effective range of 5-35 meters.  This basically makes LTL weapons CQC only.

 

LTL weapons also have limited weapon types and no open slot variations.  So your game play options are much more limited than lethal weapons.

 

LTL weapons also do negligible hard damage to vehicles, signs, breakable glass, etc.  So basically a vehicle or sign becomes an impenetrable force shield  against LTL weapons.

 

LTL weapons also have a much slower reload time than lethal weapons and in most cases a lower magazine count.  Sadly this was another change that G1 completely overlooked when buffing lethal weapons.

 

LTL weapons only stun.  The stunned player can get up from a stun and even freed once arrested.  Getting up from being stunned and freed from being arrested is faster than respawning.

 

So TLDR:  LTL weapons have limited range, limited options, longer TTS than lethal TTK, negligible hard damage, lower ammo capacity and longer reload.  Basically if anyone can stun you, you would have 100% died faster with lethal weapons.

 

8 hours ago, Musul Man said:

2- The cars. Some of the top tier police cars and vans have way more HP, weight and push than their criminal counterparts. That is about it. Of course the criminals can get these cars as well but not the same way. It's either with joker points or events like referral. And in most cases they can't be customized.

 This I will give you, but only because the Espacio (van) is inferior to the Pioneer (SUV) in  forward push power and clearance for shooting while hanging outside of the vehicle.  But these two things only apply to the Espacio and Pioneer, the rest of the vehicles are fine.  Sadly you can only buy these on Armas if you want to cross faction.

Edited by illgot

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OP has been cheesed by shotgun/PIG switching. What does need to change is the LTL arrest respawn cooldown. It has no place. Get rid of it.  The cars have teh same health poool pls stop. Put some mods if you want a tanky car...

 

/s

Edited by RandomCatface

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2 minutes ago, RandomCatface said:

OP has been cheesed by shotgun/PIG switching. What does need to change is the LTL arrest respawn cooldown. It has no place. Get rid of it. 

Get rid of one of the small bonus effects that ltl gives for what reason? Maybe we should just go back to something closer to RTW days. Re-balance back to then, add back all the content that was removed and all that was left out for reasons unknown. Having to chose more health or more stamina, and things like that would be a nice change up... for like a week till the meta gets figured out.

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1 hour ago, LuzExtinguido said:

But then, that same player keeps killing you with shotgun... has better awareness, better reflex, better aim etc etc and you say "oh this player is indeed better than me, there is nothing i could do right now but get better in the game".

You can still play around cars... you can still use remote det that still working after u are stunned... you can still keep your distance... you can keep double perc them before attacking. If you keep with your pusillanimous excuses there is not much you can improve.

 

What prevents you to equip a nhvr, tag them first and perc them? You are making me think you are the problem but not the other player, you are llooking for way too many excuses to lead people to think "pig is op", "cop role is op" and increase the hysteria.

 

But my point is, it's not fair because perc + PIG has an insanely lower time to stun than other guns' time to kill. The HVR does a lot of damage, but does not have any of the mobility you would want up close. Between two people, let's say they have near-perfect aim, forced to fight in a tight alley or nearly point-blank, the perc + PIG is flat-out the better option. The most similar thing you can get to it is percs + shotgun, but the shotgun has spread (which means there's potential for your shot to not do the damage you need) and does not do as much health damage as the PIG does stamina damage. In addition, green mods do not affect stamina, only health. It's much easier to throw your perc and then hit any part of your opponent's hitbox with the PIG than it is to throw your perc and then hit the center of your opponent's hitbox with a shotgun.

You can think I'm the problem if you want. I'm fine with that. I haven't been convinced at all. My argument only applies to percs + PIG. I think the PIG itself is fine. I think the rest of LTL is fine.

 

Edit: Yes, you can absolutely keep your distance and use cars. Of course I do that when I can. However, some objectives will force you to play in their range.

Edited by Dasnya

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5 minutes ago, Dasnya said:

But my point is, it's not fair because perc + PIG has an insanely lower time to stun than other guns' time to kill. The HVR does a lot of damage, but does not have any of the mobility you would want up close. Between two people, let's say they have near-perfect aim, forced to fight in a tight alley or nearly point-blank, the perc + PIG is flat-out the better option. The most similar thing you can get to it is percs + shotgun, but the shotgun has spread (which means there's potential for your shot to not do the damage you need) and does not do as much health damage as the PIG does stamina damage. In addition, green mods do not affect stamina, only health. It's much easier to throw your perc and then hit any part of your opponent's hitbox with the PIG than it is to throw your perc and then hit the center of your opponent's hitbox with a shotgun.

You can think I'm the problem if you want. I'm fine with that. I haven't been convinced at all. My argument only applies to percs + PIG. I think the PIG itself is fine. I think the rest of LTL is fine.

 

what about Perc + Shotgun?  At least if you are stunned you can get back up.  You also realize that the PIG has a 10 meter range before it drops to zero effectiveness plus it only has an ammo capacity of 1 and a VERY long reload timer.

 

There is nothing broken about the Perc + PIG combo, no more so than the Perc + Shotgun or even the Remote Detonator when the owner is next to the vehicle.  All these combos have counters.

Edited by illgot

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14 minutes ago, Dasnya said:

But my point is, it's not fair because perc + PIG has an insanely lower time to stun than other guns' time to kill. The HVR does a lot of damage, but does not have any of the mobility you would want up close. Between two people, let's say they have near-perfect aim, forced to fight in a tight alley or nearly point-blank, the perc + PIG is flat-out the better option. The most similar thing you can get to it is percs + shotgun, but the shotgun has spread (which means there's potential for your shot to not do the damage you need) and does not do as much health damage as the PIG does stamina damage. In addition, green mods do not affect stamina, only health. It's much easier to throw your perc and then hit any part of your opponent's hitbox with the PIG than it is to throw your perc and then hit the center of your opponent's hitbox with a shotgun.

You can think I'm the problem if you want. I'm fine with that. I haven't been convinced at all. My argument only applies to percs + PIG. I think the PIG itself is fine. I think the rest of LTL is fine.

In exchange has 100m efficiency... so we fall under the nerf circle again. OPGL has free movement and 1k damage (aka instant kill)... "b-but is not accurate", you make it accurate plus percs, it has like 80m aprox reach. PMG op, shotgun op etc etc etc.

 

14 minutes ago, Dasnya said:

 

Edit: Yes, you can absolutely keep your distance and use cars. Of course I do that when I can. However, some objectives will force you to play in their range.

 

Certain offense missions really need a lot of team work, and thats why you cant win them 1 vs 1. Some people just choose end the mission without playing 1 vs 1, others keep going... well.

Anyone corner camping will have advantage of the first shot, and pig has heavy stamina damage... so yeah you will mostly fail. There is nothing u can really do, as you cant really do anything against a corner camp ogre, nfas, any pointman honestly or most weapons.

Edited by LuzExtinguido

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50 minutes ago, SelttikS said:

Get rid of one of the small bonus effects that ltl gives for what reason? Maybe we should just go back to something closer to RTW days. Re-balance back to then, add back all the content that was removed and all that was left out for reasons unknown. Having to chose more health or more stamina, and things like that would be a nice change up... for like a week till the meta gets figured out.

 

Its a bonus you should not have. It's a direct advantage to missions. Yea you make less money with LTL but over the course of a few missions, you can make a lot in fightclub if your actually good and its fun not like farming stores... Not to mention enfs can camp crims and take the money. EZ. Yea that would be an argument if this was not possible.

Edited by RandomCatface

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6 hours ago, Zascha said:

Okay, sure. Crims still get to ram-raid. But that's been nerfed to hell and back. No one does it except that one guy who thinks it's so much fun.

Making 2 mil over a weekend sure is nerfed......

 

Yeah, no. Leave the LTL alone.

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3 minutes ago, illgot said:

 

what about Perc + Shotgun?  At least if you are stunned you can get back up.  You also realize that the PIG has a 10 meter range before it drops to zero effectiveness plus it only has an ammo capacity of 1 and a VERY long reload timer.

Yes, perc + shotgun come very close. Yes, I realize that. I've used it. Many players can't consistently use it. (See the end of my reply.)

3 minutes ago, LuzExtinguido said:

In exchange has 100m efficiency... so we fall under the nerf circle again. OPGL has free movement and 1k damage (aka instant kill)... "b-but is not accurate", you make it accurate plus percs, it has like 80m aprox reach. PMG op, shotgun op etc etc etc.

 

Yes, but if I have the HVR at a long range, my opponent isn't going to pop their head out. The thing is.. OPGL, PMG, and Shotgun aren't cheese-mode if you're forced to fight in their range.

I guess what I'm saying is, somebody who is a pro with percs + PIG will stomp on anybody forced to fight in their range, which missions will do occasionally. Somebody with perc + shotgun might be able to stand up to them if their pellets land correctly. Of course, this doesn't happen consistently. Hell no. It's hard to do. But in the hands of someone who rarely misses with their PIG and consistently achieves the near-instant TTS it feels ridiculous. I've experienced it a few times. My stance is that it would be nice not to nerf the PIG or Percs so that all the other players can't use it, but the near-instant stun should not exist to be abused by someone who can abuse it. Maybe it's not possible to achieve that, but that's what I think.

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15 minutes ago, RandomCatface said:

 

Its a bonus you should not have. It's a direct advantage to missions. Yea you make less money with LTL but over the course of a few missions, you can make a lot in fightclub if your actually good and its fun not like farming stores... Not to mention enfs can camp crims and take the money. ez

You know what's an even bigger advantage in missions?   No one on your team can bring the over all effectiveness of your team down by using LTL weapons.  Lethal weapons are more effective in every situation than LTL weapons.

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23 minutes ago, RandomCatface said:

 

Its a bonus you should not have. It's a direct advantage to missions. Yea you make less money with LTL but over the course of a few missions, you can make a lot in fightclub if your actually good and its fun not like farming stores... Not to mention enfs can camp crims and take the money. ez

So you think getting punished on tts vs ttk, having to take more time to actually do the arrest and then either guard them or hope they dont get free is part of that "Advantage"? If a ENF witness you at this point in the game then it is just because you are being an idiot with your ramraiding.

 

LTL Longer tts vs ttk of basically any weapon and on top of that you have to be able to arrest them. They can be killed before you arrest them, you can get killed before you arrest them.

 

Yeah no, LTL is a hindrance not an advantage in anyway.

Notice it is the players that play both that seem to have a better idea with this subject?

Edited by SelttikS

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I always felt the time it takes to stun with LTL is less than what it takes to kill.

I always felt the seiyo espacio was way weaker than pioneer. Pioneer can stand more hits and push the espacio like its a little taxi.

 

That's why I wrote this thread but I see I have created a monster.

 

BTW, I feel the game needs some balancing and fixing from all over the places. Especially fixing. I just got into a mission and while riding with car surfer my teammate rammed some NPC taxi which flew over our car and killed me. The kill mysteriously appeared like one of the opfor had ran me over with his car and counted as a kill for that guy... then we were all like... what the hell? Yeah, the game is broken.

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3 hours ago, Musul Man said:

I always felt the time it takes to stun with LTL is less than what it takes to kill.

I always felt the seiyo espacio was way weaker than pioneer. Pioneer can stand more hits and push the espacio like its a little taxi.

 

That's why I wrote this thread but I see I have created a monster.

 

BTW, I feel the game needs some balancing and fixing from all over the places. Especially fixing. I just got into a mission and while riding with car surfer my teammate rammed some NPC taxi which flew over our car and killed me. The kill mysteriously appeared like one of the opfor had ran me over with his car and counted as a kill for that guy... then we were all like... what the hell? Yeah, the game is broken.

What did this post teach you?  Hopefully you learned something that you can broaden past just one post.

 

Play both sides before asking for nerfs or at least do your homework and look into actual stats.  Coming to a game forum enraged because someone with an inferior weapon kicked your butt isn't the best way to make a point.  Look at the front page of this forum.  It is filled with people who refuse to play both sides or do any research yet yell about nerfs.

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5 hours ago, Nymphi-DoubleDee said:

Making 2 mil over a weekend sure is nerfed......

 

Yeah, no. Leave the LTL alone.

It was nerfed.

 

Also, you must be the guy.

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3 minutes ago, Zascha said:

It was nerfed.

 

Also, you must be the guy.

But wasn't nerfed in a massive way. It's still a viable, but boring way to make good money.

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I hate it to get arrested. Sitting on my kees waiting for my death is among the worst things in the game.

 

Please dont change anything here.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Dasnya said:

But my point is, it's not fair because perc + PIG has an insanely lower time to stun than other guns' time to kill. The HVR does a lot of damage, but does not have any of the mobility you would want up close. Between two people, let's say they have near-perfect aim, forced to fight in a tight alley or nearly point-blank, the perc + PIG is flat-out the better option. The most similar thing you can get to it is percs + shotgun, but the shotgun has spread (which means there's potential for your shot to not do the damage you need) and does not do as much health damage as the PIG does stamina damage. In addition, green mods do not affect stamina, only health. It's much easier to throw your perc and then hit any part of your opponent's hitbox with the PIG than it is to throw your perc and then hit the center of your opponent's hitbox with a shotgun.

You can think I'm the problem if you want. I'm fine with that. I haven't been convinced at all. My argument only applies to percs + PIG. I think the PIG itself is fine. I think the rest of LTL is fine.

 

Edit: Yes, you can absolutely keep your distance and use cars. Of course I do that when I can. However, some objectives will force you to play in their range.

This argument is MEH at the best....

 

 

let's say they have near-perfect aim, forced to fight in a tight alley or nearly point-blank proper distance or above 20m, the perc + PIG Sniper+pistol is flat-out the better option.

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Nymphi-DoubleDee said:

But wasn't nerfed in a massive way. It's still a viable, but boring way to make good money.

I don't think too many people waste their time doing it, frankly. My friends and I did about an hour of it a week ago, maximizing threat and all of that in Waterfront at the Instadrop guy and we made about 20k. You used to be able to make a lot more.

 

It's another system in this game that wasn't thought out very well. The whole witnessing thing, LTL, all of it is just a huge mess.

 

The business with the LtL, however, I mean look. I don't really care. But it just seems to me something that seems to always be a sore spot for half the community can't be a good thing overall.

Edited by Zascha
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Just now, Zascha said:

I don't think too many people waste their time doing it, frankly. My friends and I did about an hour of it a week ago, maximizing threat and all of that in Waterfront at the Instadrop guy and we made about 20k. You used to be able to make a lot more.

 

It's another system in this game that wasn't thought out very well.

If grouped, you split it, so each of you made 20k. 4 man group? 80k an hour.

 

At $80 an hour, that is far faster than what you could make running missions as an Enforcer.

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