DISCUSSION: Weapon balance changes to LIVE and IR3 on the Fang

[MattScott 15242]

Hi all,

 

First, this week we are going to push the older weapon balance changes to LIVE.

We aren't done yet. We will be updating Prototype districts with new changes for other weapon categories soon.

 

In making this post and reviewing all the changes, it appears we pushed RSA and ACT 44 changes to Prototype Districts, but the stat changes got missed in our patch notes. I recognize players might have missed these, but since they are very minor buffs, I have approved for them to go live as well.

 

For the patch this week, we will be including the following changes:

 

Low-Yield Fragmentation Grenade:

Explosion Radius 700 -> 550

Health Damage 575 -> 515

Stamina Damage 365 -> 295

Hard Damage 435 -> 376

 

OCA-EW 626 (And varieties):

Fire interval from 0.092 to 0.098 seconds,

Accuracy Recovery from 5.675 to 5.25

 

Joker RFP-9 (applies to the base stats of RFP variants):

Health Damage: 133 -> 110

Magazine Capacity: 21 -> 24

Ammo Pool Capacity: 105 -> 120

Radius at 10m: 10 -> 20

Min Damage Range: 25m -> 15m

Marksmanship Modifier: 0.64 -> 0.32

 

ACT 44:

Decrease Marksman Modifier from 0.63 to 0.55

 

Colby RSA:

Decrease Marksman Modifier from 0.50 to 0.40

 

 

I want to thank the players who participated with feedback and iterations.

 

Second, I want to discuss the Joker RFP-9 "Fang".

 

The base Joker RFP-9 is designed to be a close to medium ranged weapon, mimicking the OBIR in design while being held back in range.

 

However we have noticed that the 'Fang' variety of the Joker RFP-9 is currently dominating both medium and long range, due to the Improved Rifling 3 modification. The blooming of the Joker RFP-9 makes the drawback of Improved Rifling largely insignificant, leaving the gun in a very overpowered state. As a result, a lot of guns designed specifically for long range sit in the Fang's shadow. It has become the go-to secondary weapon for anyone playing a close range primary.

If all of that wasn't bad enough, this gun is only available behind a paywall, which makes it purely pay to win. We have been making a strong effort to balance the P2W aspects of the game, and unfortunately the Fang is one of those outliers that needs to be addressed.

 

For the record, I really hate changing a gun that people have paid for, even though I recognize we have already been forced to do this. Just know that we take it seriously.

I would love to see the new Colby RSA and ACT 44 come back into the spotlight for long range secondary weapon engagements. In order to do this it is important to alter the Fang so that it is no longer dominant without breaking the base gun, which also just went through a lot of re-balance. We do not wish to change how the gun is played, but rather fine tune its role.

 

With all of that in mind, I'm going to go on record saying that IR3 on the Fang sits at the heart of the problem we are seeing. It is simply a bad design decision.

It's worth mentioning that we can't do mod changes in the Prototype Districts, because unlike stat changes, we can't change mods per district.

 

The recommendation from design is to swap the Fang's mod from Improved Rifling 3 to Hunting Sight 3.

 

Improved Rifling 3 increases the range while also increasing bloom gain.

Hunting Sight 3 greatly improves accuracy in marksmanship mode.

 

We can always tweak the base RFP once the mod is changed.

 

But since we can't test this change without actually pushing it live, let's discuss it here.

 

Thanks,
Matt

 

Edit:

Shotguns are the next major category we are tackling.

[SkittyM 287]

First!

 

Also so glad the LY change is going to live.  Also, for some people, "Min Damage range" is where the gun goes from max damage to min damage.  This just means the gun will hit min damage at 55m instead of 65m.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by SkittyM

[transverse 11]

sick bro

[Iazer 204]

Shotguns next

[transverse 11]

when is nfas being removed?

 

[CookiePuss 5379]

And so it begins...

[OvermoderatedForum 71]

Great changes coming in, nice. Very good

[Darkzero3802 611]

These are some decent changes however @MattScott armas only weapons have been changed before, the VAS-C2 "Troublemaker" and the JMB "Yukon" are prime examples of guns that were changed. The "fang" needs a change as its also used in place of primaries more often then not outright its so powerful. Its not just the mod its the stats that make it what it is. Its a mini OBIR as you said but its stats are way too close to the OBIR itself as such it can be used in place of the OBIR. Also you still need to ban explosives from FC were still waiting on that.

[Bambola 379]

There it goes, my favorite and only clutch, the beloved RFP.

Farewell, you will always reside in my heart 

[staHpemh 1]

saucy now perma remove all shotguns

[SkittyM 287]

1 minute ago, Darkzero3802 said:

These are some decent changes however @MattScott armas only weapons have been changed before, the VAS-C2 "Troublemaker" and the JMB "Yukon" are prime examples of guns that were changed. The "fang" needs a change as its also used in place of primaries more often then not outright its so powerful. Its not just the mod its the stats that make it what it is. Its a mini OBIR as you said but its stats are way too close to the OBIR itself as such it can be used in place of the OBIR. Also you still need to ban explosives from FC were still waiting on that.

If you read the post, you'd notice Matt is proposing using HS3 instead of IR3.  IR3 being the only reason the Fang is so good.  All upside with next to no downside.

[Darkzero3802 611]

Just now, SkittyM said:

If you read the post, you'd notice Matt is proposing using HS3 instead of IR3.  IR3 being the only reason the Fang is so good.  All upside with next to no downside.

Im saying in addition to that the fang needs a stat change as well

[Flaws 1033]

Won't replacing IR3 with HS3 on Fang render the standard RFP superior due to less accuracy loss while hipfiring in CQC? Thought about replacing it with like IR1 or 2 instead? I agree that it's bad design to give it IR3 but it also shouldn't have to necessarily fall out of relevancy like most nerfed weapons do in APB when the next best thing suddenly outshines them.

[vsb 6171]

3 minutes ago, Darkzero3802 said:

Im saying in addition to that the fang needs a stat change as well

 

1 hour ago, MattScott said:

RFP (applies to the base stats of RFP variants):

Health Damage: 133 -> 110

Magazine Capacity: 21 -> 24

Ammo Pool Capacity: 105 -> 120

Radius at 10m: 10 -> 20

Min Damage Range: 25m -> 15m

Marksmanship Modifier: 0.64 -> 0.32

??????

[SkittyM 287]

3 minutes ago, Darkzero3802 said:

Im saying in addition to that the fang needs a stat change as well

the Fang doesn't need anything.  Its exactly the same as the RFP-9.  Changes to the RFP-9 affect all variants of the RFP.  (And in this case, the RFP-9 SD is getting the same stats so all variants of the RFP will be the same).

[Darkzero3802 611]

1 minute ago, SkittyM said:

the Fang doesn't need anything.  Its exactly the same as the RFP-9.  Changes to the RFP-9 affect all variants of the RFP.  (And in this case, the RFP-9 SD is getting the same stats so all variants of the RFP will be the same).

Right. Had a derp moment lol

[MattScott 15242]

Hi all,

 

I should have mentioned that Shotguns are the next major category we are tackling.

I'll amend my post to reflect that.

 

Thanks,
Matt

[transverse 11]

Apologies, Scott

[LilyRain 674]

"With all of that in mind, I'm going to go on record saying that IR3 on the Fang sits at the heart of the problem we are seeing. It is simply a bad design decision."

I couldn't agree more. In fact, level 3 mods on secondary-weapons are not the norm at the present moment. If there are no plans to give secondaries higher-level mods in the near-future, there is no need for the fang to have HS3.

 

How about just giving it a fang-shaped tagger-mod and call it a day? It won't make it a better/worse variant of the RFP behind a pay-wall & it will give it character.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Lily Rain

[Flaws 1033]

5 minutes ago, MattScott said:

Hi all,

 

I should have mentioned that Shotguns are the next major category we are tackling.

I'll amend my post to reflect that.

 

Thanks,
Matt

Thank you! We desperately need changes to all shotguns across the game.

[Roblo 35]

Just give us the engine already, fuck all the other balancing shit,  you can do that afterwards. god damn it ' new engine is coming soon' my patootie.

[SkittyM 287]

3 minutes ago, Lily Rain said:

I couldn't agree more. In fact, level 3 mods on secondary-weapons are not the norm at the present moment.

What?  There's an ACT 44 with HS3, an ACT 44 with CJ3, FR0G Kokoe with 3PS3, N-FA 9 with 3PS3, and an RFP-9 with EM3.  Also a S-AS PDW with mobsling and an RSA with HMS.  The problem isn't Tier 3 mods on secondaries but more what mod you put on what gun.  IR3 on something like the RFP-9 is hilariously strong since it already has range and lacks a notable downside.

[Deadliest 385]

R-2 Harbinger needs a buff 

[Zolerox 564]

Wait, Rsa even less accurate? and act44?...

[WhiskeyTangoFoxX 280]

Just now, Zolerox said:

Wait, Rsa even less accurate? and act44?...

More, not less. the smaller the modifier is, the smaller the crosshair