Kempington

In practice, there are quite a few missions in the game that aren't well balanced for certain match ups such as car delivery for 4v4s or heavy item delivery for 2v2s. It'd be nice to have separate mission pools for 2v2s and 3v3/4v4s, given what can happen. some locations are pretty bad as well and require good teamwork to pull off, a nightmare for solo players. That would require map changes, though, in order to be most effective. I'm sure they'll look into this after phase 2 "unification".

Man, I have not updated this thread for weeks. My apologies. If you were following along on stream, I want THE BEST THEME YOU CAN MAKE this week. Only one winner this time. Winner gets £100 to their paypal. Best of luck to all contestants!

I'll be trying to test this on live with the weapons provided. The better ping should help. I reckon a few more tweaks will be needed, but now with a longer testing time in populated mission districts, it should yield some more interesting results. Thanks for this though, changes to the weapons were needed for some time now.

Rolls Royce Phantom or no deal.

He used me as an excuse for some people counterarguing his point. It just might be.

Theres plenty of benefits to sticking with the game, without having the need for mods that directly improve your weaponry. However, I feel it's rather important that players who have been with this game for 100s of hours don't have the ability to be overwhelming new players primarily due to having fully geared weapons that are upgraded via their mods, with no downsides. I mean it'll still happen, but that will be down to experience differences. That would be what happened in the rtw APB. It was a tough road for new players in that game. It's a tricky one, but I feel mods being sidegrades and stat tweakers, rather than straight benefits is a better way to go.

It is, but then there would be a huge advantage to veterans, if mods were straight upgrades to weapons. If anyone remembers the OCA "Undertaker" prior to its slight change near the end days of rtw, you'll know what I'm talking about. Also, Savage 3, short sighted 3, spray and pray 3 n-tec.

Out of interest, how would you nerf them to 85% damage? Bricks and 8 balls have ramp up damage. The longer they fly, the more damage they do, up to a maximum of 2000 player damage and 400 hard damage (against vehicles). For reference, without Kevlar or flak jacket, bricks can one shot at 20m, 8 balls one shot at 27m. They achieve their max damage at 40m/54m The furthest I could throw and get a confirmed kill with them (on flat ground) is 125m with a brick and 180m with an 8 ball. So, when you say 85% damage, do you mean at their current kill range or their max damage range?

Alright. I was a bit brash at first, apologies. Let's do some simple maths here. We know for a fact that the crosshair represents the accuracy of any weapon 10m away from you. That cone will be everywhere a shot can go. It's completely RNG (as much as a computer can be random). Let's take the LCR. For this example, I'm using the 'Old Glory'. No different from the rest, since they all sport HS3. You can check the stats for it here. Accuracy Radius at 10m = 13cm Marksmanship Modifier = 0.48 13*0.48 = 6.24cm @ 10m range in marksmanship mode. That's pretty accurate so far. Let's extrapolate this to 60m. This is effectively (assuming I'm not completely moronic with maths...) multiplying this number by 6. 6.24*6 = 37.44cm RADIUS (Double it for the Diameter) Doesn't sound too shabby right? Well... Let's take the N-TEC. It SHOULD be more inaccurate with HS3.... right? I mean it's an assault rifle, not a marksmanship rifle. Here are the stats for the gun. (For this example, I'm also putting HS3 in this weapon). Accuracy Radius at 10m = 24cm Marksmanship Modifier = 0.35 (0.2 with HS3) 24*0.2 = 4.8cm radius @ 10m Wait what? The N-TEC is more accurate? Yikes... 4.8*6 = 28.8cm RADIUS So, the N-TEC is already more accurate than the LCR.... BUT LET'S CONTINUE. So, before we go any further, I urge you to click here to read the actual stats of the ISSR-B. We already know it's more accurate, but the point to question was the Time to Kill and... wait what's this? 0.9s time to kill? Compared to the LCR's 1.2 (1.14 on old glory)? Well hold on, it can't be that bad right? Surely their hipfire accuracy is relatively similar.. LCR Run Modifier = 6.5 (8 with HS3) 13*8 = 104cm RADIUS @ 10m ISSR-B Run Modifier = 1.1 (2.6 with HS3) 38*2.6 = 98.8cm RADIUS @ 10m (On a side note, you don't even need to use HS3 on the ISSR-B, its accuracy is already loads better. I'm not going to put that here, just go look at the stats. So yes, the ISSR-B is more accurate at range, more accurate hipfiring, has a faster TTK, does more damage, both to vehicles and players etc. The only thing I can't really discuss is how often the LCR will whiff at 60m away. But considering that it has a 74.88cm diameter crosshair at 60m, the only thing we need to know is the diameter of the player's hitbox. I have a feeling it might be around 60cm or fewer, but I don't know this. Simply put, you're more likely to land shots @60m with an N-TEC than you are the LCR. The LCR is outclassed. It needs some work done to it to be viable. Sorry man.

Not particularly, no. The only 3 you can equip are tagger, 3PS and mobility scooter. The rest appear to be special effects or variations of tagger.

I didn't say that 3PS is OP. It's not at all. However, the idea here is to make all mods have pros and cons, rather than being straight upgrades. That way, you can cater your weapon to benefit in one area, but lose out elsewhere. That was kind of the idea with them initially, as far as I can tell.

Sorry, just to point something out. The ISSR-B is definitely not worse than the LCR. More hard damage, better initial accuracy, more range, better damage per shot, can be hipfired in CQC with moderate success. Marksmanship mode movement speed is worse, but it really doesn't matter. The LCR fulfills a role that no-one really needs. High mobility at range isn't really a benefit, since it's arguably easier to track fast moving targets at that range anyway. The LCR's inherent inaccuracy causes it to whiff plenty of shots at 60m, causing it to be unreliable. There's not much you can do to prevent that from happening, either. ALSO, if you compare the accuracy of the LCR with HS3 vs. the CR762 with HS3, the CR762 is more accurate in marksmanship mode, by at least 3cm. I don't know how you got the whole "LCR is more accurate" idea from, if you aren't comparing them appropriately.

To counterpoint myself, a few weapons wouldn't notice my proposed downside either, such as shotguns, some SMGs. It's mostly affect the mid/long range.

3PS3 is a bit of a weird one. The benefit it provides doesn't necessarily directly improve the weapons performance, but it does reduce the delay when you need to react to something quickly. In some smaller cases, it can result in quite ridiculous maneuvers. I had quite a think about this. What if 3ps3 gave the weapon a similar effect that replicates the HVR's equip accuracy? Benefit: You equip the weapon faster. Downside: Gun stays at "equip bloom" for longer. You can choose to shoot during this time, but the gun won't be as accurate as possible. Please note. "Equip bloom" would be an amount of bloom to the weapons minimum accuracy, not maximum. For example, it would bloom the guns accuracy to 40% of max. Obviously, the length of this effect would be prolonged dependent on which 3ps you use. As a random stab at the dark for values, the delay before the gun recovers accuracy from this equip bloom could be: 0.5s/0.8s/1.1s (again random example) What do you reckon?

They went with reduced fire rate with the increased range? That's awesome. I'll give it a proper run through and see what impact that has. That's really neat though. Improved rifling needed a unique downside that hasn't happened yet. This might be the right choice.

Thanks again. You've done a great job with the descriptive and concise explanation of the changes. Really do appreciate it a lot.

Good lad. This helps a lot. Thanks so much for this.

I reckon halving the range of the CSG might do the trick. I'm honestly not sure if you'd want to do the same with the JG bit it might be for the best. At least then, IR3 would actually be a valid option to take. Shredder would then have a comfortable roam of 25m in the shotgun category. Still, what about the nfas, the true ogre and the thumper? Thumper must have some pretty nasty range now.

Oh lord. The shredder's range now.. that'll be interesting. @LO_Beastie are there any plans to spin up a financial and waterfront District for these weapon changes on OTW? It's nice to get a general idea of the changes on the guns in Baylan, but I feel proper run throughs would work better in missions. See where the shortcomings are and where the changes benefit the weapons.

Gee, thanks. I know my aim is bad. Still, I don't agree with these changes. I thought shotguns were fine, but the servers sometimes causes issues with their consistency.

I think the HVR changes are not on OTW or not working, based on what I briefly tested yesterday with a willing test subject. Not sure though.

Whilst I would agree, I like to also compare the oca as the baseline smg against other close quarter weapons, namely the shotguns. Shotguns do have more control on corners and can corner peek much safer and be more effective with it, they get outclassed almost every where else when up against an SMG (oca for example). I'm happy with smgs slightly outranging shotguns and having that advantage, but being able to outperform shotguns right up close? I'm not so sure. I feel If the OCA was reverted, the only outlier would be the manic. But that has a higher skill requirement in order to do well with it so it's swings and roundabouts.

Basically this. The whole oca Vs pmg argument is a bad one in general since the weapons handle quite different from each other. I feel the OCA should be compared to similar weaponry, high STK, high RoF. Eg. Cap40, aces, h-9 curse etc. In regards to those, it outsines them all practically. That being said, the s1-na manic is a beast that nobody uses. Seriously, check it out.

Good lord there's a lot here. Loads of positive improvements as well! Could we get a comprehensive list of the changes and how they differ between baylan A and baylan B please? Also, it looks like the HVR changes didn't make it. But that showstopper though. Love it. I'll write a full report when I have extensively tested the weapon changes.

I could be completely wrong here, but I feel the dethreating stemmed from two different aspects. Gold players who didn't want to play against other golds because they thought a lot of them cheat(ed). Gold players who don't want to play difficult matches and just want to stomp less experienced players for easy kills to make themselves feel better. The former is left to the eyes of the beholder (given the incredibly large tear down the centre of the community on how many people supposedly cheat). Whereas the latter is just selfish. Some people are out there who want to stomp other players to feel better about themselves and APB is no exception. You can see the same stuff happening in other competitive games. However, this is usually done via smurfing (creating a brand new account to play against newer players). That's how I see it. There are a few who don't play the mission because they know their enemy and don't want to repeatedly bash their head against a wall (metaphorically). I'm a culprit of this on one or two ocassions where I know the match will be frustrating and the chance of a win is 0, given what teammates I have and how much I could realistically contribute. However, I don't do this when I'm soloing as it's not fair for the others who are playing. Sorry, retrospectively.