Flaws

Very insightful, Golderlight123456789, thank you.

I could go on and on about how you understand nothing about the topics you talk about the most on these forums but knowing you at this point, it's a complete and utter waste of time and energy. You don't understand APB enough to even hold gold which is very easy (that alone already speaks volumes, believe it or not). You keep making completely (objectively) wrong statements about APB and other shooter games and other good players who reply to you confirm it over and over and over. But alas here we still are. The ones who know the littlest are the loudest. That goes for everything.

Here we go again.... APB is the furthest you can be from a solo game, the entire premise of the game is to play as a team. For example the fact that players only have one hitbox, hints that taking down multiple targets is much more difficult than it is in games such as CS:GO or R6S where one good aimer can take down entire teams over and over (headshots). In APB that's a lot more unlikely due to the fact that you still need to hit multiple shots on each of those players while they are most likely also targeting you at the same time. That is also one of the reasons top teams never take 1v1 engagements unless absolutely necessary and only stick to 2v1s, 3v1s, etc. That is the reason you have multiple roles to fill in such as close, mid and long range and different roles need to position themselves differently and have varied playstyles. I've stated the exact reasons why the game is not competitive and it has nothing to do with the fact that APB is a team game. It's not flawed game mechanics to be able to perform better with a full team than when soloing, it's how it is supposed to be because it is a team game. You are supposed to play it with friends.

"n-tec premades"? Is that what silvers call good players nowadays? Even if you are a top tier player, if you play alone you won't stand a chance against a full group of good players because APB is not a solo game. The strategy is to not expect much from these matches and just do your best, whatever that might mean, knowing full well that your skill isn't the reason for the loss 99% of those times.

Yes, I agree with most of these and they all must be addressed eventually. Edit: I mostly want to emphasize on these select few as I am most familiar with: - N-tec was indeed nerfed for no actual good reason. I won't go explaining why for the 3000th time. - Nerfing the OCA and then just leaving shotguns and the PMG as they are for such a long time is a big mistake. Either nerf the whole CQC/SMG category together at once or nerf nothing at all. The OCA is currently useless and a weak choice when it comes to close range combat. - Thunder is ridiculously overpowered due to it's range and it's capability of 3-shotting people from financial to waterfront. - CSG is a literal nerf gun without IR3. Shotguns should not need IR to begin with. - HVR's current status is abysmal, it's a terrible band aid fix to a problem that's not even addressed by said band aid fix, which is indeed the DAMAGE it deals, even at 90m. Quickswitching and jumpshooting was never the main problem of the HVR and it really wasn't the real reason the HVR was so problematic (and still is). I have some better ideas in mind to nerf quickswitching and the damage whilst maintaining it's heavy sniper rifle role as it should. - Radar tower needs to be fixed already. - I don't personally care about bounties not showing on the map and not being killable after the mission is over, as long as you can't be seen by current mission opposition, and can't be damaged by players out of the mission whilst it's going on, I'm fine with it.

lol no

I didn't ask for a reversion specifically, just for further rebalancing because right now live is god awful.

I figured that might have something to do with EU vs NA. As far as I know, most of the "good" players on Jericho just play like total scum most of the time. We don't consider those competitive players on EU, just fake golds, regardless of their win ratio. We have fastly different standards here and it's likely one of the many reasons we still have more players too.

Even if you look at the bounty icon first, you can easily see what color the name is as it's literally right below it... Either way, neither me nor anyone I know has any issue with that but making the icon not visible to people out of your mission would be fine too. Makes no difference if you pay attention.

Almost everyone looks at the color of the nametag first before even the bounty icon... How do you not see that the name is grey for such a long period that you manage to "unload a hail of bullets" without seeing that......?

No good players who take the game competitively use cheap tactics against newbies. Those are the exact same people who dethreat to bronze district (not necessarily, but that kind of mentality). Real good players are much more likely to go secondary only against proper newbies than use cheap tactics. The players you speak of are not the players I speak of when we say "competitive". I speak of the players who quit the game for the day if they don't get opp that is equal/around that level of skill within the first 10 missions. Competitive players have 0 interest in farming new players, they get nothing out of it. Fake golds farm new players, because it makes them feel good at the game and it feeds their ego. You speak of the latter and they do drive players away indeed, but nothing drives players away more than the matchmaking system because the matchmaking system can give players a whole variety of reasons to dislike playing the game. They might think everyone is cheating (as we know, that's extremely common even nowadays where cheaters are mostly extinct), they might think it is too late for them to get into the game, being 10 years late or they might just hate the matchmaking like everyone else does and so on.

What do you make out of these then? https://i.gyazo.com/731d9af7f07109b6befdf4583ec14b71.mp4 https://i.gyazo.com/f1dd0c956e61828be3ef04d036ddcf86.mp4 https://i.gyazo.com/a230cd287c9982b32f85ac4e1c87a522.mp4 https://i.gyazo.com/0b63788360ed4276b8c5db8e2b827181.mp4

I dunno about interesting, I'd much rather go with annoying.

First and foremost, I believe that no shotgun in the game should require Improved Rifling like it does in current live. CSG for example is completely useless without IR3 on live. I'd much rather have good base range and all preset variants of the CSG that have IR3, replaced with some other mod, but I digress. I'll start with the CSG as I got most time in with it. I mainly used the Speed-Dater to see how well non-IR CSG does with the current prototype changes. It felt very inconsistent because I would need to 3-shot players at point blank range, even if I'm perfectly centered on their hitbox: https://i.gyazo.com/dd3a04fb6167171c04469e6fda97b6a9.mp4 (I have plenty more clipped examples of this) And on some occassions I actually had to 4-shot people?: https://i.gyazo.com/5558f9fac03f93fba8146db4238dc4a7.mp4 But then other times I could 2-shot players with the exact same weapon: https://i.gyazo.com/9cbc7a18913288e8e03cee344c35685a.mp4 The first time I went in to play there, the district was full to the brim so I figured that the large amount of people could be causing issues with hitreg and consistency so I blamed it on that. I went to a remote spot with @Mojibaked to test the damage drop off (range) of the CSG and I was able to 3-shot him at 20m (with CSG RT1 which in terms of range and accuracy is identical to the Speed-Dater, as it has no accuracy/range mods on it). (See here for footage of that test: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/547290930?t=2h4m40s). But I still had to 3-shot players a lot of the time in point blank with the exact same weapon. What's also interesting is that CSG PR1 (which has IR3) did feel a bit more consistent but that makes no sense as the 3-shot kills I was getting were well within it's base range so I'm not entirely sure what's going on there. The JG (without any accuracy/range mods on it) felt significantly more consistent than the CSG in terms of point blank but that could be credited to the higher damage and maybe even the higher spread to an extent. Conclusion: I believe that the CSG should be the more consistent 2-shotter out of the CSG and JG and it should feel more reliable as it always was the longer range pump-action. I think that the CSG's damage should be upped to 650 and it's firerate made identical to the JG. What the JG would lack in range, should be made up by slightly higher damage and larger spread for higher efficency in closer range as it was intended to be. However, due to the nature of APB being a third person shooter where you can look around corners and corner pop shoot, I also do support potentially making pump actions 3 STK and maybe some other adjustments to kill corner popping as it's an incredibly overpowered and unfair tactic. If that is something that you would approve then we'd need to test that out as well. The N-FAS and Thumper felt slightly overnerfed (underpowered) so maybe up their range or damage a little for the next test. The way I see semi and full-auto shotguns in APB is that just because they are automatic and have massive spread, it doesn't mean that they should be an undefeatable menace that requires no aim or strategy (which is what the current state of live N-FAS and True Ogre are). They should still punish you if your aim is off target and they should only achieve minimum TTK while practically hugging the target. The Showstopper (I was only able to test the short version, as I do not have a Thunder) feels at a good spot right now. It does not have unrealistic range and it's okay for a secondary shotgun, at least from what I could gather. My main focus was on the CSG and JG.

The game being dead has zip zero nothing to do with the competitive mindset of some of us. This seems to be the one of the main misconceptions I'm seeing on the forums. It's dead due to the horrendous matchmaking and that goes both ways. Competitive high tier players legit quit the game because they have no one good to fight. Most of you don't seem to understand that we do not have fun farming newbies. That is insanely boring to us. You don't need to have a competitive mindset to dominate new players (and make them quit) AT ALL and the amount of fake golds who dethreat to go play on bronze district and stomp newbies using remote det, atac, true ogre, explosive weapons and showstopper really are the definitive proof of that. If those dethreaters took the game seriously or competitively in any way, they would never dethreat because they would be thinking about beating better players, not stomping lowbies which gains them nothing in terms of skill, only in terms of ego which is not the definition of competitiveness or competition. Point me to one game where having tons of hours doesn't make a difference in skill even if you don't take it seriously one bit. It's called experience and it comes with or without tryharding, with or without the competitive mindset, with or without toxicity. Can we stop pretending that being competitive is a bad thing and that it is somehow killing APB? It is complete and utter BS made up by salty players who never really got out of silver for 10 years. And yes, we are "crying" about the broken, horrible game design of a mechanic that is the APB bounty system because we are good enough to find it's flaws. Back when APB and some of it's mechanics were designed and integrated, the devs did not think far ahead or simply did not know what would happen if players actually became very good at the game and mastered it and it's mechanics, not thinking far ahead about what the issues would be then and in the past 5-10 years, those problems are shining brighter than anything the moment someone decided to take it seriously.

It better be, I personally know people who will quit the game for good outright, would this change be reverted. After years of suffering from it, finally doing the right thing and then reverting it would be catastrophic.

From what I've gathered of you so far, you wouldn't know the first thing about how "gaming" works. The only reason I am here, wasting my time and keystrokes on the forums is to make sure that LO don't listen to the wrong people, again.

Not at all. I understand your logic and I understand exactly where you are coming from and I am explaining exactly why it's wrong, while you just ignore 5 of my posts that prove you wrong with hard facts and logic and keep typing up the same crap from before lol.

You keep repeating the same things over and over without even trying to read into what others are writing. I am beginning to get exhausted from these forums and some of the people on them. One last time, just because someone is good does not mean that they should have to deal with such massive disadvantages exactly due to the reason that they put effort and time into it. For some bizzare, incoherent reason you believe that being good means that you can suddenly handle the entire enemy team seeing you on the map at all times, while also taking damage from players out of mission (who also see you on the map at all times) who are likely going to kill you and ruin the entire competitive experience of the game, more often than not steering the result of a mission drastically. Not because the player isn't good enough but because the game has terrible designs that trip over the comeptitiveness. Try to apply your "logic" to any other shooter and find the mistake in your understanding. Also, teams that cannot compete should not be given "free chances" because that's not how anything competitive works. Overtime is also controversial and I believe it should also be scrapped eventually with mission reworks. The loser loses, the winner wins and that's where it ends. You don't get better by having the game hold your hand, you get better by losing over and over and learning from your mistakes. Seeing other players do it better, not have the game give you a "second chance" and "balance things out" when you're worse than the enemy team. Edit: Getting bounty EVERY single mission (yes, EVERY), at least ONCE, is not "once in a while".

I will repeat it for you for the 300th time. The reason we have no players is the matchmaking, not the game mechanics. Game mechanics must be fair and consistent regardless of player numbers and features such as the bounty system compromise that fairness. If anything it's one of the repulsive features that drive new and old players alike away, who want to take the game seriously and in a competitive way. That and other RNG (random, left to complete chance, a roll of the dice) features that decide who wins and who loses. It really shouldn't be this difficult to understand.

Well put. Largley what I've been getting at.

I already explained in this very thread that APB was indeed created with it being more competitive than GTA in mind. Refer to my previous posts. It's only similar in setting and general concept, not even close in terms of actual gameplay and mechanics other than hijacking cars and it being open world in a city.

APB is competitive at it's heart but it has many mechanics that were added for one reason or another that tend to derail that such as the massive amounts of RNG, bounties, collissions out of mission and so on. Which are also the reason this game barely sees any "tournaments", because it's not even close to being polished enough to be taken seriously to the point where money is put on the line. If the game had no competitive potential then no one would take it as a competitive game, play arranged, organise community tourneys and so on. Indeed, those are more issues that must (and will) be addressed. A sandbox game of this nature already exists and it's called GTA, you can try that instead for the non-competitive side of urban warfare shooters.

That's not even relevant to the base mechanics of the game. The game should function correct and fair even if there are 10 people playing it. Also, arranged matches.

Being skilled doesn't mean that you should deal with a sudden massive disadvantage because you are better than your opp. Not even blatant cheaters last long with a bounty on their head and that says a lot. They should not be getting it at all to begin with, it has nothing to do with the matchmaking. If good players had the option to never face randoms and lesser players, almost all of them would take it 10/10 times because it is incredibly boring to play against a team that stands no chance. We are talking about the game at a high level, where two actual good teams compete against each other and suddenly one of them gets a random massive disadvantage for no logical reason other than terrible game design from 10 years ago. At high level, every little mistake can make you lose the entire mission and being bounty is absolutely terrible for competitive play.