Uminee

Some of the absolute coolest moments I've experienced in APB came from the bounty system. It's a system that makes sense in a game as chaotic as this one, and fits with the general feel of needing to constantly adapt to a changing battlefield. I would say, perhaps there should just be better rewards for maintaining P5/N5? There'd be a definite balance point you would want to achieve, such that losing a mission due to a bounty being placed still felt completely worth it, but not high enough that a player is encouraged to throw a mission just to stay alive and maintain it. Perhaps some mission reward multiplier based on time spent on bounty and number of players in the district?

When I first heard Little Orbit had acquired this game, I wondered who exactly was in possession of a genie's lamp and decided to use up a wish to save APB. I was pleasantly baffled. I don't think I was alone in that feeling. A few months go by, and now the forums are full of rage that everything isn't already fixed up and perfect. I saw something like this happen over the years with G1, the never ending barrage of players spewing negativity. You could actually see G1 losing morale each time, not knowing how to interface with a community that is determined to tear them down ... Occasionally restructuring to put forward a new approach or new public face to deal with things, only to be attacked again. I can't imagine how hard it would be to work on a game like this while constantly feeling like the people you're making it for despise you. And so I jump on the forums to check out the state of things, and see the community up to their same old hate cycle, and so I whisper, pleadingly into the void, "Please, please be nice to them, we lucked out in getting them, don't drive them away... " So far I've been extremely impressed with Matt Scott's ability to not let the negativity get to him, I just don't know if there's anyone who could maintain that forever. The current community is one which adapted to survive in a toxic environment. APB actively teaches a player to communicate in a way which is damaging to the morale of those you are addressing, it's simply part of the culture that's developed in a game with such a strong psychological component in outplaying opponents. I don't think they actually know other ways to express themselves, so please never take it too seriously.

I think you're all confused about the system in which you're measuring economic value. APB's true currency is style.

Adding more layers seems unnecessary and taxing. If you're creative, you can make incredibly detailed things with just the 100 symbols. Take a look at what some of the other designers have done, and then look at your own designs to see how you can get the most out of the smallest number of symbols. If I were to suggest a change to the symbol editor, I would suggest adding a mask option that only effects the layer directly below it. In theory this alone would significantly increase the potential for complexity without actually taking up more space in terms of data for the server to manage. Unfortunately, I've never once in my time playing APB seen any developer make the slightest change to the customization tools. Since it's the one thing about APB that is objectively superior to any other game, their hesitance to tweak these systems tells me that they no longer have anyone around who knows how, and are afraid of messing something up. (Hrm, that sounded overly critical, but I really don't blame them.)

Does the wheelchair have mod slots? Will it do a wheelie like the vegas if I activate nitro?

I love when people run from me with objectives. Not sarcasm. There's a very high chance of my opponents being better at shooting than I am. There's a significantly lower chance of my opponents being a better driver than I am. The most annoying thing is when enemies act like they're being honorable when they refuse to drive with an item, as though denying me my favorite part of the game is doing me some kind of service. If you can't drive well or don't know how to navigate the streets in such a way as to intersect fleeing opposition, then it may make you feel helpless when opponents choose this tactic. Understand that these are actual skills you can develop, and rather than try to eliminate an entire style of play, consider actually developing these skills. To you, this may be a shooting game that has cars. For me, it's a driving game that has guns.

Thank you for elaborating BXNNXD. That sounds a lot more reasonable than scrapping win/loss having any effect on threat which seemed to be implied. Your responses and their incredible timeliness do make me think you skimmed through much of what I was saying though. Not your fault entirely, I can be overly wordy. Of course having vegas stunts effect one's score would be ridiculous. However it's something that is possible to do, requires considerable skill, and can score a victory. I had that as an example of how it's impossible to calculate everything that a player does to factor into winning. People with certain skill sets get neglected by imperfect scoring systems, whereas direct win/loss doesn't care how you got it done, it just knows that you can. There are pros and cons to each I'm sure.

Maybe, but I can guarantee the one time it works will be worth the reactions Yes ... exactly ... but you had previously said that basing threat off of win/loss is bad. My entire post was explaining that 'pretty good system' that you were calling bad previously. I'm not certain if there's contradiction or miscommunication, sorry.

come clean, this never happened If it never happened, I wouldn't be so proud of it that I find ways to work it into random topics on the forums even years later

Apb is not structured in such a way that it would be remotely possible to create an accurate metric for actions that contribute to a victory. For instance, my main skillset is driving. When it comes to shooting, not so great. Under the current threat system, I've been gold for years. Could you imagine the coding nightmare that would be required to determine a statistical value of, for instance ... timing the nitro on a vegas to use a random car as a ramp and leap up onto an overpass to intersect fleeing opposition, or reach a mission objective more quickly? And yet, these are the kinds of insane variables that can take place in every mission, and as such would require an engine far more complex than the entirety of APB to accurately account for. Or ... you could measure whether or not one's ability to pull off that stunt had any actual impact on the outcome of the mission ... and the most direct way to do that, is by seeing if they won the mission or not. After enough missions, one will be able to statistically extrapolate the general likeliness of someone winning or losing missions, and use that data to assign their threat level. Is it perfect? Of course not, but any other option is either less perfect, or would require a quantum supercomputer and an enormous research grant.

Elaborate maybe? Also, suggest alternatives? If you're not basing threat on win/loss then you're either doing it by rank or by kill/death ratio, and those are both a lot more problematic than win/loss. If you base threat on rank you're just encouraging rerolling, and punishing the max rank players for whom shooter games are not a primary skillset. If you base threat on kill/death then you are misrepresenting the skills of players who focus on the objectives, and who play more supportive roles such as drivers. Personally ... I've never liked threat at all. I understand why it's needed in a game with as much of a tactical learning curve as this one, but I don't feel like it should be a giant obtrusive symbol constantly affixed to a player to determine their worth. It just creates an environment of constant judgement and breeds toxicity. But by now it seems that this sort of treatment is what the current remaining population has come to expect/want. I wish it were not so, I feel like this game would be a lot more accessible to people who didn't have a predisposition to thrive on frustration if threat weren't even visible.

I don't know how many players there are like me, but I only ever use premium for the sake of customization. My main is max ranked and I make vastly more money selling clothing/symbols on the market than I ever could in missions anyway. And while it might be more convenient for me in the short term if free players had more customization access, I also want this game to succeed, and for the people who are working on it to be paid. So as much as I'd like to hop in whenever and do some customizing without having to spring for premium, I want to be sure there'll still be a game to hop back into.

You say this as a joke, but before the half dozen nerfs they've slapped on the dumptruck over the years, its top speed was on par with a vegas. God I miss those days.

Regarding players' ability to cope with change, I've always found a bizarre inconsistancy during gameplay itself. Apb, more than any other game I've seen, is subject to so many variables that missions are almost always different. And yet, players will so often approach the game in the most formulaic way possible, becoming agitated at any tactic/weapon/strategy that defies their expectations. I would assume that a game that requires as much adaptability as apb does would attract a playerbase undaunted by change, but experience suggests otherwise. My only theory as to why this is the case, is that many players derive pleasure through a sense of overcoming the chaos of the game, of finding methods to control the varied scenarios they encounter. As such, new variables present a threat to this idea of mastery. As such, it is inevitable that many players will be upset at the changes to come. However, these changes will present new opportunities for players to master the game, which they will enjoy, assuming they do not feel too alienated by said changes. Seeing as LO appears to have an interest in maintaining the core identity of the game while improving it, I see no reason to worry.

They know what is too far, and they are going there intentionally. It's an unfortunate part of internet culture that seeks to gather attention through extremes, and is particularly pervasive in APB.

Ah, I see. Well, in my experience, no amount of explaining is able replicate just hopping in game and driving the car around for a bit and getting the feel for it. Deciding on a vehicle based on any rating system we could devise would amount to an experience like trying to choose your favorite flavor of ice-cream by someone's description of all the flavors before trying them. There's very little utility in creating such categorizations, but some people enjoy doing it I suppose. As for the figuring out what is and is not effective, we don't all have to shout and squabble to come to a consensus. The fact is, people use what is effective. Just look around at what people are using, and you'll have the consensus. As you've noted, the 4x4 does not suit you, but you've recognized it is effective. I'm fairly adept with all APB vehicles (except the crims ones I havn't tried, I assume) but I have a similar relationship to long ranged guns that you have with 4x4's. As I mentioned earlier my aim's not so good, so I only really use close quarter guns because they're what I can get good results with. I wouldn't assume that all other weapons are bad, that would be absurd. I can look around and see so many people using the guns they've found effective, which are those of varying ranges. This is true of vehicles. No one player needs to say what is 'best', but the the population will naturally gravitate towards what is most efficient, so all we really need to do is see what most people are driving.

Huh. I've been rolling around with a remote det/explosives 3/flak jacket loadout for years (yeah, turns out I've found many ways to be effective at this game while still being bad at aiming) and I never once considered that larger vehicles might have a larger explosive radius. Might have to experiment with that. Anyway, I still think it's possible to give an overall tier for a vehicle ... because if we break down a list of all potential areas a vehicle can excel at, some vehicles will will be in the top tier of more of these areas than others. Some vehicles actually have no need for certain things. Being bad at (or practically incapable of) weaving through traffic is not going to really effect the overall performance of a dumptruck, because there's very little chance that other vehicles are going to prove an obstacle. This principle would also apply to a lesser extent to the pioneer and that crim soccer van thing I can never remember how to spell, which places them at a high tier overall because they require maneuverability less often, so their lack of it counts against them less. In an ideal APB, there'd be a lot more vehicles sitting at the top tier. And indeed, someone would have to break down the existing strengths/weaknesses to figure out what to tweak to even things out. We could sit around and do that for fun if we wanted, but in the end if anyone's going to be making those changes it'll be a dev, so it'll be them making that analysis. So to explain why it's important that we use these generalized tiers rather than break down the strengths/weaknesses of the vehicles: If we ever want any devs to look and notice there needs to be adjustments for balance, a nuanced list of the pros and cons of each vehicle isn't going to get that across at all. Generalized tiers indicating the vehicles that are vastly more useful overall, will. I'm getting tired of seeing the same 3 types of cars everywhere I go.

Everything in this thread is merely a symptom of a flawed system. The very idea of icons that perpetually float over your head to indicate your worth as a player is offensive. The fact that it's always there on display more easily visible than even your name or faction, even in social district where it couldn't possibly even matter just adds more toxicity to an environment that already breeds it. You are not silver. Or gold. Unless you've managed to slather yourself in some sort of metallic paint. Perhaps your threat rating in APB is one of those colors, but it should not form any part of your identity. Anyone who addresses you by your APB threat rating has given you a good indicator that they are not likely the sort of person with opinions that are worth your time or attention.

You make some good points in that vehicles, much like the variety of guns in the game, are useful situationally. Which to me seems like the way it should be, balance wise. Where I disagree is that you cannot put tier on a vehicle ... because some vehicles are useful in more types of situations than others, or are useful in a type of situation that occurs frequently. That's not to say that driving skill is not a factor in determining a vehicle's usefulness, as with your vaquero vs vegas example scenario. I myself am a lot better with cars than I am with guns, often getting more vehicular kills than gunfire ones. I've had more than one gold player accuse me of 'drive botting' after a match. I can say with certainty that it's a skillset as important to winning missions as fps skills. But the balance of cars abilities at the moment is such that we see very little to no variety. As much as I love how effective my 4x4 vegas is in missions, I really miss the days before they existed. The regular, rear wheel vegas had such a high risk vs reward factor, as it's very unforgiving of mistakes, but unmistakably faster than anything else. Now driving it just feels directly inferior to the 4x4, because even if it has a slightly higher top speed, the time it takes reaching that top speed would still put it behind the 4x4 on all but the longest, straightest roads.

They seem to be indicating that they identify as non-binary. Sadly English language and syntax are just really bad at addressing non-gendered people.

A lot of cars could use some changes in regards to the handling, among other things, especially as there's only about 3 vehicles anyone bothers using these days. It would be nice to see diversity again. In regards to the physics, however .... I honestly hope they always stay as wonky as they are now. Seeing and doing ridiculous things in vehicles has brought me so much joy over the years.