Weekly Poll

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

This time, to avoid talking about a topic that Matt has stated he has future plans for, let's throw a curveball (cooky I'm looking at you)

 

If you've played apb for long enough, you'll know that there's a handful of guns that get little usage, and that an even smaller handful are non-exsistent in terms of use rate (but that can be a topic for another day)

 

The gun, or rather, guns up for discussion today is none other than the Norseman series. What are your opinions on them?

 

The best way for LO to make changes that will be accepted is to voice our opinions in an easy analysable manner, so let's put our initial opinions out in the open for them

[Saxtus 497]

I voted for "could use a bit of tweaking" because right now it is a dethreating gun and dethreating is not allowed. 

[Ketog 1031]

Norsemen series ? Well i voted a complete rework.

 

Honestly these guns had the meme status since they came out :

 

and the featured playermade launch trailer that came with it basically showed how bad it is :

 

 

 

On that video above, you can see how outrageously long the time to kill is, (don't get me wrong the statistical TTK is fine, but the actual average time to kill is much higher due to the higher number of shots needed to kill)

 

Not only that but Norsemens came in with those weird magical mods, they restrict modding capabilities, they don't make any sense not fit with apb, who had the idea that introducing magical mods in apb was a smart idea ?.

 

Oh and the odin, that gun is specific to a pack, and that pack, oh man, it's not cheap. the funny thing is those guns weren't popular since their launch because they were more expensive, and bad.

 

Now to the more statistical side of things :

 

Norseman doesn't fullfill any specific role well :

 

It's not a great SMG due to it's high number of shots to kill, even if ttk is higher than average, that's not the main problem, the number of shots is, we all know that high STK weapons aren't popular, look at ACES Rifle, ACES Smg, Yukon, NFA-9, and there's a few more that i probably missed, all of those aren't popular because they feel very inconsistant .

 

What's the point of using a CQC gun if it can't take care of someone fast and efficently.

 

It's not even a good corner popping gun either, because even if you hit your enemies first, the gun is so weak that they can easly turn around, react fast enough to still kill your first .

 

It's not good at being a longer range SMG either, it had horrible recoil and a bad spread which prevents you to do that, and for some reason Norseman has 32 meters range ...

 

Any other SMG's is better at taking care of people more accurately while being faster, more consistent, free, have more modding capabilities, and actually makes you a good team supporter, and not just a weight slowing you down.

 

Those guns have an awesome model, but that's all the good they have to my eyes, complete rework needed .

[Szambi 85]

They need a tweak but on top of that I'd say that because of their unique mods they should be turned into legendaries.

[VanilleKeks 735]

The 4 Nopemen

[Trivirium 62]

I bought the collection as a meme buy to say I have every gun or a least a variant of it, and I have to say I wish I got a discount of some kind because EVERY GUN BUT THE ODIN was worthless in terms of usage. Like the Hel was the only mildly usable one besides the pack exclusive. Which mind you was like.. 5K+ creds?

Over $50 for a handful of under preforming stuff. 

On the other hand I realize the actual TTK might be bad but if you do have a good hand you can manage to a degree. The mag size complements the fact that it's shit at doing everything else.

 

Regardless, I still feel almost always you'll be outgunned by almost any other SMG that comes prepared to fight. 

[Guest]

Would love to see a rework or adjustement to them, TTK is rediculous.

Im not asking one shot but.. should be a bit more powerful (just a bit).

[AxeTurboAgresor 268]

Wrong. Accuracy, and mods are okay. What kills this weapon is its TTK. It has too high TTK (0.79!) for an SMG. High TTK is not a problem with a weapons such as obir, obeya and hvr, becouse they are accurate. But its a very big problem for SMGs that have generally lower TTK in most games.

Its high TTK makes this 11 hits to kill weapon very very unreliable. It needs its TTK way lower. 0,67s-0,68s is my guess. It means higher rate of fire.

 

ACES rifle is cool, becouse its accurate.  But ACES smg is failure due to its small magazine size and how unaccurate it is.

[yood 345]

Not now!!!!

the game is CHAOS . for somebody to do it ? for three hundred trolls who've been killing the game for 7 years ?

[CookiePuss 5378]

To give them an even remotely competitive ttk would be a start.

[vsb 6171]

they’re bullethose guns that offer no incentive to use as bullethoses

 

either make them significantly more accurate or lower the ttk to somewhere around .7s

 

get rid of the “unique” mods, that’s a garbage mechanic that only belongs on legendaries (maybe throw the ‘odin’ into a joker box if need be)

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

I want to love the Hoenir, or whatever the blue mod one is, so badly but my god does it suck.

[Unseen2339 6]

i am no ones god dont make me use 1%

[Noob_Guardian 417]

On 5/8/2019 at 7:49 AM, Ketog said:

Norsemen series ? Well i voted a complete rework.

 

Honestly these guns had the meme status since they came out :

 

and the featured playermade launch trailer that came with it basically showed how bad it is :

 

 

 

On that video above, you can see how outrageously long the time to kill is, (don't get me wrong the statistical TTK is fine, but the actual average time to kill is much higher due to the higher number of shots needed to kill)

 

Not only that but Norsemens came in with those weird magical mods, they restrict modding capabilities, they don't make any sense not fit with apb, who had the idea that introducing magical mods in apb was a smart idea ?.

 

Oh and the odin, that gun is specific to a pack, and that pack, oh man, it's not cheap. the funny thing is those guns weren't popular since their launch because they were more expensive, and bad.

 

Now to the more statistical side of things :

 

Norseman doesn't fullfill any specific role well :

 

It's not a great SMG due to it's high number of shots to kill, even if ttk is higher than average, that's not the main problem, the number of shots is, we all know that high STK weapons aren't popular, look at ACES Rifle, ACES Smg, Yukon, NFA-9, and there's a few more that i probably missed, all of those aren't popular because they feel very inconsistant .

 

What's the point of using a CQC gun if it can't take care of someone fast and efficently.

 

It's not even a good corner popping gun either, because even if you hit your enemies first, the gun is so weak that they can easly turn around, react fast enough to still kill your first .

 

It's not good at being a longer range SMG either, it had horrible recoil and a bad spread which prevents you to do that, and for some reason Norseman has 32 meters range ...

 

Any other SMG's is better at taking care of people more accurately while being faster, more consistent, free, have more modding capabilities, and actually makes you a good team supporter, and not just a weight slowing you down.

 

Those guns have an awesome model, but that's all the good they have to my eyes, complete rework needed .

i love the reduced spread one, but its ttk is horrible.

 

I think the ttk allround needs decreased to at least .7-.73 to be considered "effective" for them. But that means either increasing ROF or decreasing STK. I feel STK is fine, so decreasing TTK would be the better option. Or even increasing STK and decreasing TTK due to mag size would be fine.

On 5/8/2019 at 2:35 PM, BXNNXD said:

they’re bullethose guns that offer no incentive to use as bullethoses

 

either make them significantly more accurate or lower the ttk to somewhere around .7s

 

get rid of the “unique” mods, that’s a garbage mechanic that only belongs on legendaries (maybe throw the ‘odin’ into a joker box if need be)

the unique mods are fun with them, but the problem is that they all have a really crappy ttk. Otherwise i'd use em more. It's extremely hard to get a kill with them because oca fires several bullets more over its ttk than you get just to hit your STK.

[vsb 6171]

21 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

the unique mods are fun with them

i'm a big fan of consistency in games, i really dislike that the norseman series (and a few other guns) have unique mods even though they're "normal" guns

 

its the same reason i dislike random unique mechanics like the dmr reverse drop off or the hvr accuracy/damage link (altho i understand the balance reasons behind them), just unnecessary complications of what at one time was a simple, polished gunplay system

[Noob_Guardian 417]

1 hour ago, BXNNXD said:

i'm a big fan of consistency in games, i really dislike that the norseman series (and a few other guns) have unique mods even though they're "normal" guns

 

its the same reason i dislike random unique mechanics like the dmr reverse drop off or the hvr accuracy/damage link (altho i understand the balance reasons behind them), just unnecessary complications of what at one time was a simple, polished gunplay system

Oh i can agree to some degree. I bought a bee series and never use it cause of that recoil. But norsemen are kinda fun imo, they feel different with each one and its like using a different weapon almost. It just sucks that their ttks are so high.

 

I  disagree with the dmr reverse drop though. The DMR  was under powered and useless for the longest time, and now you have reason to fear it and use it. The HVR accuracy link sucks imo, i felt there were better ways to fix qsing... but that issue was singularly with 3ps3 and its effects on the sniper. The gunplay system was never "polished" it always had its glaring issues. From broken guns (c2, buffed csg, atac prenerf), sprint shooting, and broken shooting mechanics (qsing, jumpshooting)

[vsb 6171]

6 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

I  disagree with the dmr reverse drop though. The DMR  was under powered and useless for the longest time, and now you have reason to fear it and use it.

agreed that the dmr now unquestionably has a niche i just don't like that the mechanic basically violates the "rule" that every other gun follows, less damage after x range

 

12 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

The gunplay system was never "polished"

disagree, the gunplay pre-dropoff system (and even the period directly after tbh) was very polished imo - everything had a fairly logical input/output, and the game wasnt quite so cluttered with wonky guns with their own mechanics

 

obviously there were some issues, things like the ntec and obeya outperforming their niche for example, but those were relatively minor fixes compared to the balance today

 

20 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

sprint shooting

sprint shooting itself was never actually a problem, and its "fix" (that didnt really fix anything) had unintended negative effects on other guns, i really wish g1 had just left that alone tbh

 

21 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

It just sucks that [the norseman] ttks are so high

in an attempt to not derail the thread, would you give the norsemen a significantly lower ttk (.6x) and leave their accuracy/bloom alone, a slightly lower ttk (.7x) and slightly better accuracy/bloom, or something different?

 

and would you lower the stk or keep it at 11?

[Noob_Guardian 417]

On 5/9/2019 at 10:53 PM, Glaciers said:

agreed that the dmr now unquestionably has a niche i just don't like that the mechanic basically violates the "rule" that every other gun follows, less damage after x range

 

disagree, the gunplay pre-dropoff system (and even the period directly after tbh) was very polished imo - everything had a fairly logical input/output, and the game wasnt quite so cluttered with wonky guns with their own mechanics 

 

obviously there were some issues, things like the ntec and obeya outperforming their niche for example, but those were relatively minor fixes compared to the balance today

 

sprint shooting itself was never actually a problem, and its "fix" (that didnt really fix anything) had unintended negative effects on other guns, i really wish g1 had just left that alone tbh

  

in an attempt to not derail the thread, would you give the norsemen a significantly lower ttk (.6x) and leave their accuracy/bloom alone, a slightly lower ttk (.7x) and slightly better accuracy/bloom, or something different?

 

and would you lower the stk or keep it at 11?

I'd keep the stk, or increase it slightly due to the mag size (its like 60 rounds), while decreasing the ttk to ~.7. The TTk of .67 or .65 may be balanced as well but i wouldn't know without testing. The bloom i feel could be bettered slightly, but it isnt needed in the accuracy recovery one since it gets better over time. If they can be accurate and get kills at ~20m reasonably well (about the same reliability as the oca at 20m) i'd call them balanced with a lower ttk. It would depend on their intended niche whether its closer cqc or further cqc.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Noob_Guardian