Little Orbit support Cheaters or what ?

[Darkzero3802 633]

Just now, Fortune Runner said:

Was there any actual "evidence" of cheating in this thread with current data?

Or was it only pre - Little Orbit and pre - BattleEye days?

If its only outdated "proof" then the accusations are unwarranted and only stirring up saltiness at the very least for APB

Nobody is really saying anything but if you spend as much time in FC as I do you see who the cheaters are quite easily as they tend to be there more then anywhere else. There are still a good number of cheaters ruining the game and it would seem like battle eye and the new report system are doing jack to ban these players. Spend a month is FC and you will see whose who as well. The discussion on hackers is still very valid even if you have those who say they dont exist anymore.

[CookiePuss 5394]

2 minutes ago, Darkzero3802 said:

Nobody is really saying anything but if you spend as much time in FC as I do you see who the cheaters are quite easily as they tend to be there more then anywhere else. There are still a good number of cheaters ruining the game and it would seem like battle eye and the new report system are doing jack to ban these players. Spend a month is FC and you will see whose who as well. The discussion on hackers is still very valid even if you have those who say they dont exist anymore.

No one is saying they dont exist.

Ive even said there are 3 on Jericho.

What is being said is people hackusate far more than they should.

[Darkzero3802 633]

3 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

No one is saying they dont exist.

Ive even said there are 3 on Jericho.

What is being said is people hackusate far more than they should.

Thats common in ANY game played especially when it comes to PVP. It will always be around no matter what amd while yes its annoying its something that wont be going away so long as hacking is a thing.

[CookiePuss 5394]

Just now, Darkzero3802 said:

Thats common in ANY game played especially when it comes to PVP. It will always be around no matter what amd while yes its annoying its something that wont be going away so long as hacking is a thing.

As will level headed players who will point out that no, these players arent cheating, they are just better than us.

[Fortune Runner 796]

1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

As will level headed players who will point out that no, these players arent cheating, they are just better than us.

guns don't kill people

 

lag does

 

Edit : disclaimer

         this is meant as a joke and in no way shape or form meant to complain over server lag

         especially since it is not Little Orbits fault of DDoS attacks

         never blame the victims

Second Edit : it is also not meant as off topic but meant to agree with cookie

Edited January 12, 2019 by Fortune Runner

[Fortune Runner 796]

Too much mis information and outdated accusations on this thread is causing toxicity

Even from the title it felt that way from the start with how its written as an accusation against Little Orbit

I hope they closes this thread soon its not befitting us at all only causing more harm

[image 9]

Still waiting for the day where LO will actually do something about the problems they have with their BE version.

Whoever says BE is working and doing it's job and that it's all the engine's fault if we have cheaters is out of his mind, multiple public exploits work on APB and LO even if aware of all of these just doesn't care enough to fix any of them. 

 

On 1/8/2019 at 1:14 AM, Thaumaturge said:

3. Until there's an engine and file upgrade, the many hundreds of old coded hacks are not going to go away. As long as there's a BE bypass, some will cheat. I'm sure its that easy, must be why most major cheat distributors that were actively updating and carrying cheats for APB:R are no longer doing so. Its not hard to find several resources where you can actually look at making a BE bypass, and, if you're interesting that sort of thing and actually like studying it, you would quickly come to the realization that it is not at all easy to create and maintain a BE bypass, and the more people that play the game, the less likely BE heuristics won't catch it, which is an existing issue currently.

3.0 -> 3.5 doesnt do jackshit its literally the same thing and 3.5 -> 4.0 is not a big difference either, stop smoking crack dude

in apb you can LITERALLY paste a complete BE bypass and get away with it, the problem isn't the engine. 

Edited January 12, 2019 by image

[Rade 54]

The problem with APB is cheating has never been dealt with properly. G1's past was ban waves followed by mass unban waves, selective banning by GMs, inefficient implementation of FF.

 

Little Orbit's approach, unban every single past ban because we don't know the reasons behind some and have evidence of false positives, I have no issue with this.

 

But Little Orbit's policy going forward concerns me. They will not ban cheaters permanently in the first instance (neither did G1), but after reading Matt's Dec 2018 statement it seems they won't ban any cheaters permanently. If you are caught cheating again it is another temp ban, and so on (I accept I might be wrong here but the ambiguous wording by Matt needs clarification).

 

I'm still waiting for @MattScott to clarify his statement in addition to some practical aspects of the ban policy. For example how long are the temp bans for, are permanent bans still on the table and if so when etc...

 

I've posted my concerns in the main cheating thread below.

 

 

Another gripe I have with Little Orbit is they will not publish permanent ban statistics for cheating. Matt says it encourages toxic behaviour......I say it inspires confidence in the player base that cheating will not be tolerated and will encourage more players to play fairly and past players to come back. 

 

Trying to brush the long standing cheater issue in APB under the carpet won't change public perception Matt, only good actions with good intentions will help you. If you provide clarification and confirm you are banning cheaters on a permanent basis, it would be good if you could back it up with some real and believable statistics.

[CookiePuss 5394]

1 hour ago, Rade said:

~snip~

The temp ban vs perma ban seems to be a common issue that is misunderstood by the community. 

Temp bans are issued by the BattlEye software. This gets the suspected cheater out of the game, and gives Little Orbit the opportunity to manually review the ban before making it permanent. (Thereby removing the possibility of false bans) The last time Matt explained this we learned that fully 100% of temp BE bans were converted into permanent bans once reviewed by Little Orbit staff. 

If a player receives a temp ban ONLY, it's not for cheating. 

 

 

When Matt says he doesn't like to ban players, and that he views banning as a failure on the part of Little Orbit, I think he simply means he feels it's the responsibility of Little Orbit to create an environment where players do not feel the need to cheat. 

 

[Thaumaturge 83]

3 hours ago, image said:

Still waiting for the day where LO will actually do something about the problems they have with their BE version.

Whoever says BE is working and doing it's job and that it's all the engine's fault if we have cheaters is out of his mind, multiple public exploits work on APB and LO even if aware of all of these just doesn't care enough to fix any of them. 

 

3.0 -> 3.5 doesnt do jackshit its literally the same thing and 3.5 -> 4.0 is not a big difference either, stop smoking crack dude

in apb you can LITERALLY paste a complete BE bypass and get away with it, the problem isn't the engine. 

the engine and the bypass are two separate issues, but the engine allows for pretty much any outdated cheat made for the same engine to work. (ignoring detection) there's nothing special that has to be done to keep them maintained, if you didn't know.

 

and it's a pretty big difference, can you show me why you think it doesn't? 3.0 to 4.0 would be a huge difference, especially considering 4.0 is the modern engine and takes advantage of all the new modern technology or did you forget that? 4.0 is also actively maintained, and again, takes advantage of modern technology.

 

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/what-is-unreal-engine-4

 

im going to assume you don't have a clue what you're talking about. look at the date UE3 was released. and when you do, keep in mind its not running on the "Stable release" or it'd be 3.5, so it's running on something about 5-10 years out of date, 20 if things are particularly grim.

Edited January 12, 2019 by Thaumaturge

[Rade 54]

@CookiePuss

 

We already exchanged responses in the main thread and I made it clear what my issues were. But for your benefit I'll summarise again.

 

There is no misundrestanding on my part, I do not like the language in the Dec 2018 statement used by Matt because it has an ambiguous nature to it and contradicts past statements. You already know this since you read all my replies in that thread. You also know I fully accept I might be wrong. You also know in absence of confirmation from Little Orbit I will not make any assumptions based on past statements or accept the view of anyone else including you.

Edited January 12, 2019 by Rade

[CookiePuss 5394]

19 minutes ago, Rade said:

@CookiePuss

 

We already exchanged responses in the main thread and I made it clear what my issues were. But for your benefit I'll summarise again.

 

There is no misundrestanding on my part, I do not like the language in the Dec 2018 statement used by Matt because it has an ambiguous nature to it and contradicts past statements. You already know this since you read all my replies in that thread. You also know I fully accept I might be wrong. You also know in absence of confirmation from Little Orbit I will not make any assumptions based on past statements or accept the view of anyone else including you.

Fair enough. 

I wouldn't be surprised if as soon as he has the time, Matt gives an official statement... again. 

[PACwoMAN 37]

The publisher/devs are just saving (trying to save) in game population. They don’t understand (obviously) what U ARE and many other people who are playing this game aren’t understanding this.  They think that the more people playing the more people see that the game is popular.  

 But in real they do forget about social media: “boring game, cheaters everywhere, pay2win”.

 

 They should: bring back FairFight firstly. These days too many pro silvers and r90 golds.

Edited January 12, 2019 by PACwoMAN

[MattScott 15296]

Hi all,

 

Here are a couple points of clarification:

• "Little Orbit support Cheaters or what?"

I really shouldn't have to answer this. We spend millions a year on improving the game, building new features, and on anti-cheat systems themselves. APB is a PvP game that is only fun if you get a fair match. I've already gone on record saying that the game will die if we can't fix the cheating problem. Why would we subvert all that hard work and money by supporting cheaters and letting them run rampant?

• Does LO do permanent bans?

Yes. With proper evidence, we ban cheaters. There is no warning or second chance. You get permanently banned. If BattlEye or any of our other systems flag you, then you get a temp ban ranging from 3-7 days. During that period, my staff verifies the information and converts the ban to a permanent ban. This happens in the vast majority of cases.

• "Support takes too long to respond to cheat reports."

I agree. The turnaround time was atrocious. That's why we revamped the /report system to make it more useful. We are still responding to old reports that were submitted, but the team is now using data from the new /report system to focus their efforts.

• Who can ban cheaters?

Only LO employees and paid contractors can ban players. We do have volunteers who help, and they have some power to remove problematic players, but they can also escalate reports or summon someone we employ directly. We did this because of the history in this game and abuse by previous GMs.

• Permanent bans are only a partial solution for cheaters.

This is important. Bans only deter players who really want to play the game and progress. For those cheaters who don't care about their accounts and want to troll other players, they just come right back under a new account. We ban using various methods. They come back. We ban them again using other methods. They come back. The only long term solution to battle these cheaters is to block the actual cheat, and that takes time.

• Several players post or contact me with lists of "known cheaters", and then complain when they still see those players in the game.

I get messages all the time from players with "proof" and lists of names. I always turn that information over to my team. However, we cannot act directly on player submitted evidence or testimonials. There are several reasons you may still a "cheater" in-game: (1) we are still collecting evidence, (2) we did an investigation and could not prove they were cheating, or (3) we found evidence but sometimes we'll flag that player for BattlEye so they can work on detecting the cheat and block it. Once we have collected enough data, then we ban these players. Waiting is sometimes critical to gathering information, because banning isn't an effective long term solution.

 

As I have said before, we can never make the game cheat-free, but we are working hard to continually improve.

 

Thanks,

Matt

[PACwoMAN 37]

6 minutes ago, MattScott said:

Hi all,

 

Here are a couple points of clarification:

• "Little Orbit support Cheaters or what?"

I really shouldn't have to answer this. We spend millions a year on improving the game, building new features, and on anti-cheat systems themselves. APB is a PvP game that is only fun if you get a fair match. I've already gone on record saying that the game will die if we can't fix the cheating problem. Why would we subvert all that hard work and money by supporting cheaters and letting them run rampant?

• Does LO do permanent bans?

Yes. With proper evidence, we ban cheaters. There is no warning or second chance. You get permanently banned. If BattlEye or any of our other systems flag you, then you get a temp ban ranging from 3-7 days. During that period, my staff verifies the information and converts the ban to a permanent ban. This happens in the vast majority of cases.

• "Support takes too long to respond to cheat reports."

I agree. The turnaround time was atrocious. That's why we revamped the /report system to make it more useful. We are still responding to old reports that were submitted, but the team is now using data from the new /report system to focus their efforts.

• Who can ban cheaters?

Only LO employees and paid contractors can ban players. We do have volunteers who help, and they have some power to remove problematic players, but they can also escalate reports or summon someone we employ directly. We did this because of the history in this game and abuse by previous GMs.

• Permanent bans are only a partial solution for cheaters.

This is important. Bans only deter players who really want to play the game and progress. For those cheaters who don't care about their accounts and want to troll other players, they just come right back under a new account. We ban using various methods. They come back. We ban them again using other methods. They come back. The only long term solution to battle these cheaters is to block the actual cheat, and that takes time.

• Several players post or contact me with lists of "known cheaters", and then complain when they still see those players in the game.

I get messages all the time from players with "proof" and lists of names. I always turn that information over to my team. However, we cannot act directly on player submitted evidence or testimonials. There are several reasons you may still a "cheater" in-game: (1) we are still collecting evidence, (2) we did an investigation and could not prove they were cheating, or (3) we found evidence but sometimes we'll flag that player for BattlEye so they can work on detecting the cheat and block it. Once we have collected enough data, then we ban these players. Waiting is sometimes critical to gathering information, because banning isn't an effective long term solution.

 

As I have said before, we can never make the game cheat-free, but we are working hard to continually improve.

 

Thanks,

Matt

Never cheats-free - is truth. I hate those liars who told what they will ban every cheater. It’s unreal.

 

 

IMO you should do more events to bring back as many players as you can with the streamers also. We’ve waiting for the ppl like Dope, Kemp and Shini will back. You should “delute” those cheaters between average players. So the game will be much more enjoyable.

[vfterlife 87]

11 minutes ago, MattScott said:

We do have volunteers who help, and they have some power to remove problematic players, but they can also escalate reports or summon someone we employ directly. We did this because of the history in this game and abuse by previous GMs.

I look at the Asylum - then to your comment.
I look again at Asylum - and at your comment.
I do not believe. 
 

Quote

(2) we did an investigation and could not prove they were cheating, or (3) we found evidence but sometimes we'll flag that player for BattlEye so they can work on detecting the cheat and block it

It is very sad if you can’t find triggerbots for some players for two months. Everyone knows their names. Everything, except you, and your "volunteers".

[vsb 6211]

2 minutes ago, vfterlife said:

Everyone knows their names. Everything, except you, and your "volunteers".

it’s like you missed the entire point of the post you quoted

[Rade 54]

Thanks for the reply Matt.

[Lato 188]

24 minutes ago, MattScott said:

 

We spend millions a year on improving the game

uhhh, did i read that correctly?

[vsb 6211]

5 minutes ago, Lato said:

uhhh, did i read that correctly?

cheating is a multimillion dollar business, it makes perfect sense to me that anticheating would have to be equivalent in order to compete, and that’s just one facet of running a game

 

you didn’t think employment costs, server costs, licensing fees, etc were cheap did you?

[Lato 188]

18 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

cheating is a multimillion dollar business, it makes perfect sense to me that anticheating would have to be equivalent in order to compete, and that’s just one facet of running a game

 

you didn’t think employment costs, server costs, licensing fees, etc were cheap did you?

for a game like this? yea, definitely

[CookiePuss 5394]

1 hour ago, Lato said:

for a game like this? yea, definitely

Well... We are all now a little more informed then, aren't we?

Edited January 12, 2019 by CookiePuss

[Rebelliousness 85]

On 1/11/2019 at 5:03 PM, Fortune Runner said:

Was there any actual "evidence" of cheating in this thread with current data?

Or was it only pre - Little Orbit and pre - BattleEye days?

If its only outdated "proof" then the accusations are unwarranted and only stirring up saltiness at the very least for APB

Since no one at all was accused... your point is moot.  No one brought evidence against anyone at all... the discussion was simply are there hacks for APB because the rabid deniers get ridiculous saying they don't exist. I've seen in-game what I think are shenanigans.  That said I still stand by temp bans since perma bans all but destroyed this game the vast majority of which were false bans. 

I kinda wish we had a system like FF, that would temp kick players for being too good consistently.  Not to spoil fun or anything, and not only for hacks, but even pros... if their performance was so off the scale of the average player to force them out of the trolled bronze district. Kinda would help matchmaking too if someone consistently performs above normal... he shouldn't get the option to call backup against a lowbie.  Just, the way I envision it should be.

[Fortune Runner 796]

Just now, Rebelliousness said:

Since no one at all was accused... your point is moot.

The very title of this thread accuses Little Orbit *facepalm*

I'll let the others comment on the rest of your post and flaws in it

[CookiePuss 5394]

12 minutes ago, Rebelliousness said:

he shouldn't get the option to call backup against a lowbie.  Just, the way I envision it should be.

Average threat between teams determines whether or not you can all backup, not rank.

For instance...

I was not able to call backup in this mission, and it turned out to be pretty fun for both sides. (even though we didn't win)

 

The best advice I can give is get out of your own head, ignore the colors and ranks, and just give it your best every match. You'll win some, you'll lose some, but as long as you just focus on yourself, you WILL get better.

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2019 by CookiePuss