New Downside Suggestion For Improved Rifling

[Kewlin 692]

19 hours ago, speee said:

In general, more bloom/spread is a bad idea. I like my shots to go where I am aiming without having to roll the dice. 

 

 

I'm pretty sure you missed the point, the point is that it requires you to slow down your RoF, lol.

[February 22]

Just leave ir3 alone and as is I dont remember people complaining about it before

[HighSociety 148]

5 hours ago, February said:

Just leave ir3 alone and as is I dont remember people complaining about it before

+this

[CookiePuss 5379]

7 hours ago, February said:

Just leave ir3 alone and as is I dont remember people complaining about it before

 

2 hours ago, HighSociety said:

+this

I mean, plenty of us thought it was strange that it didnt really have a downside for many guns.

[AxeTurboAgresor 268]

IR had a downside, but it wasnt very noticeable in practice on certain weapons. Both recoil or bloom would naturally force to shoot slower to land these shots, and it makes sence also cuz "if u wanna ur weapon to fire further, it will kick more logically" so it doesnt rly matter which one of these two options would be applied as it is only matter of opinion of everyone of us.

RoF downside is the worst downside they could ever apply for IR as it broke many weapons and pissed a lot of players off.

 

As somebody has mentioned trade of better range for damage nerf under 15m, I got an idea of IR applying damage nerf just like HB has, as weapon will be more reliable in longer distances while nerf will be rly noticeable in cqc. This could also work.  Edited: This one was a brain fart, lol

Edited October 22, 2018 by AxeTurboAgresor

[HighSociety 148]

6 hours ago, AxeTurboAgresor said:

As somebody has mentioned trade of better range for damage nerf under 15m, I got an idea of IR applying damage nerf just like HB has, as weapon will be more reliable in longer distances while nerf will be rly noticeable in cqc. This could also work.

Yea but its bullshooiiaat for the pre modded CSG and TAS20... will end in the same discussion of "change my IR3 on mah shotgun" 

why should i do less dmg with them if i hit nothing above 12m ??? 

[Tenginima 74]

Bloom will simply lead to more RNG, thus rewarding the one that is the luckiest. It should either be more Recoil, or the firerate decrease, but people didn't like that. So I would suggest more recoil, and add a type of recoil curve, adding to the fact that you shouldn't spray with IR, only tap, and ofc keep the old increased max bloom. 

[Kewlin 692]

7 minutes ago, Tenginima said:

Bloom will simply lead to more RNG, thus rewarding the one that is the luckiest. It should either be more Recoil, or the firerate decrease, but people didn't like that. So I would suggest more recoil, and add a type of recoil curve, adding to the fact that you shouldn't spray with IR, only tap, and ofc keep the old increased max bloom. 

 

How do people not understand that more bloom does not equate to more RNG? Do you people full-auto the N-TEC at 50m or something? Do you not burst or tap fire?

 

At least half of APB's gunplay revolves around controlling bloom, everyone should understand this and that more bloom is not the same as more RNG. Hell, you even state in your post that you want IR to encourage more tap-firing, and yet you somehow don't comprehend that the best way to encourage tap-firing with a gun is to increase the stat that forces people to tap fire.

[Tenginima 74]

Just now, Kewlin said:

 

How do people not understand that more bloom does not equate to more RNG? Do you people full-auto the N-TEC at 50m or something? Do you not burst or tap fire?

 

At least half of APB's gunplay revolves around controlling bloom, everyone should understand this and that more bloom is not the same as more RNG. Hell, you even state in your post that you want IR to encourage more tap-firing, and yet you somehow don't comprehend that the best way to encourage tap-firing with a gun is to increase the stat that forces people to tap fire.

I never said people spray at 50m, that is stupid, but at closer ranges it will reward rng, as in order to hit the min ttk or close to it you must full auto. Adding more bloom, will simply increase that RNG in the ranges that Assault rifles are used to spray at.

[Kewlin 692]

5 minutes ago, Tenginima said:

I never said people spray at 50m, that is stupid, but at closer ranges it will reward rng, as in order to hit the min ttk or close to it you must full auto. Adding more bloom, will simply increase that RNG in the ranges that Assault rifles are used to spray at.

 

Yes, but that's the whole point: IR should make you better at close range and worse in CQC. Furthermore, adding recoil like you were saying would not affect full-auto in close quarters really, and it wouldn't affect longer ranges where you're already bursting either as you already have enough time to reset your aim.

[Kevkof 806]

6 minutes ago, Tenginima said:

Adding more bloom, will simply increase that RNG in the ranges that Assault rifles are used to spray at.

Would that be such a bad thing though?

[speee 90]

6 minutes ago, Kewlin said:

 

How do people not understand that more bloom does not equate to more RNG? Do you people full-auto the N-TEC at 50m or something? Do you not burst or tap fire?

 

At least half of APB's gunplay revolves around controlling bloom, everyone should understand this and that more bloom is not the same as more RNG. Hell, you even state in your post that you want IR to encourage more tap-firing, and yet you somehow don't comprehend that the best way to encourage tap-firing with a gun is to increase the stat that forces people to tap fire.

Then they can add recoil patterns that are consistent and more pronounced. Adding bloom is an RNG mechanic. It does not matter if the player can mitigate the symptoms of bloom; It still introduces random factors to the gun play.

[Tenginima 74]

Just now, Kewlin said:

 

Yes, but that's the whole point: IR should make you better at close range and worse in CQC. Furthermore, adding recoil like you were saying would not affect full-auto in close quarters really, and it wouldn't affect longer ranges where you're already bursting either as you already have enough time to reset your aim.

It would affect longer and shorter ranges if the recoil is significant enough, tommygun-ish.

1 minute ago, Kevkof said:

Would that be such a bad thing though?

It would be indeed.

 

Would you rather have a game where it is a 50/50 slot machine on who wins between 2 equally skilled players? Or a game which rewards good plays, and punishes bad ones.

[ZoriaDunne 327]

I always wondered why mods has to have downsides, it's already hard to get weapons with slots, to get downsides by using a mod.
Why would you get a downside by adding a handgrip to control the recoil?
 

[Tenginima 74]

Just now, TheKeanuReeves said:

I always wondered why mods has to have downsides, it's already hard to get weapons with slots, to get downsides by using a mod.
Why would you get a downside by adding a handgrip to control the recoil?
 

It's because of gamebalance, not realism.

[Kevkof 806]

3 minutes ago, Tenginima said:

Would you rather have a game where it is a 50/50 slot machine on who wins between 2 equally skilled players? Or a game which rewards good plays, and punishes bad ones.

That all depends on the amount of extra rng that's introduced by that change. I can see skilled players adapting to that and it wouldn't affect them too much. 

I'm not saying there should be a lot more rng, but just a bit more to make it less optimal to fully auto, even at short range

[Sneerz 2]

What about increased effective range with a smaller minimum damage drop off range? Something like 15% effective range and 15-20% less total range. In other words, you get an increase in range, but the increase isn't as game changing over longer ranges.

[Kewlin 692]

51 minutes ago, speee said:

Then they can add recoil patterns that are consistent and more pronounced. Adding bloom is an RNG mechanic. It does not matter if the player can mitigate the symptoms of bloom; It still introduces random factors to the gun play.

 

First off, this isn't CS:GO, second, it really doesn't, except at full auto, which should be RNG. Even CS has spread, it's a legitimate balance mechanic used by nearly every game.

 

52 minutes ago, TheKeanuReeves said:

I always wondered why mods has to have downsides, it's already hard to get weapons with slots, to get downsides by using a mod.
Why would you get a downside by adding a handgrip to control the recoil?
 

 

Because APB isn't about gear, so having a slotted gun isn't supposed to give you an advantage (at least in theory.)

 

Also. . . why did you use an example that's not even in the game?

 

18 minutes ago, Sneerz said:

What about increased effective range with a smaller minimum damage drop off range? Something like 15% effective range and 15-20% less total range. In other words, you get an increase in range, but the increase isn't as game changing over longer ranges.

 

As it is, min damage range is already irrelevant most of the time, especially in comparison to any increase in dropoff range. I can't think of a scenario where I wouldn't take 7+ meters of max damage over even instantly dropping to min damage.

[CookiePuss 5379]

58 minutes ago, Tenginima said:

 

It would be indeed.

 

Would you rather have a game where it is a 50/50 slot machine on who wins between 2 equally skilled players? Or a game which rewards good plays, and punishes bad ones.

>not using your secondary for cqc cuz you think one gun should work at all ranges 

[Tenginima 74]

1 minute ago, CookiePuss said:

>not using your secondary for cqc cuz you think one gun should work at all ranges 

I'm highly confused, can you elaborate? Since I am not sure what you are referring to with using a secondary. 

4 minutes ago, Kewlin said:

 

First off, this isn't CS:GO, second, it really doesn't, except at full auto, which should be RNG. Even CS has spread, it's a legitimate balance mechanic used by nearly every game.

 

True, but CS:GO's spread can be mitigated by the recoil pattern, thus creating a highly repeatable outcome while spraying. Should this be CS:GO? No, since I like APB's gun mechanics, when I refer to an increase in Recoil, I mean a lot of upward recoil, I.E recoil that makes your gun jump upwards, and a curve that makes it jump more the more you shot, untop of the increased max bloom, essentially making it useless at spraying. 

 

[Sneerz 2]

22 minutes ago, Kewlin said:

As it is, min damage range is already irrelevant most of the time, especially in comparison to any increase in dropoff range. I can't think of a scenario where I wouldn't take 7+ meters of max damage over even instantly dropping to min damage.

1

 

Picking a mod shouldn't mean you have to make a decision between original condition over what the mod does. Most of the mods give a better effect but provide another negative effect, yet the positives still outweigh the negatives (mostly), and if they don't, then the mod is designed poorly. The only thing they should do is provide an adequate negative effect, while still providing a positive effect in another way, to avoid being overpowered in comparison to non-modded guns. 

 

Also if the damage drop off effect is significant enough, it could allow players to decide if its really worth using in mid-long range guns, particularly ones like the OBIR and Obeya (even possibly ARs) that would get a large range gain. The point is to close the excessive range gap IR opens and I feel that this is more creative than doing something that doesn't work like more recoil, bloom, or anything in terms of gun handling.

[CookiePuss 5379]

44 minutes ago, Tenginima said:

I'm highly confused, can you elaborate? Since I am not sure what you are referring to with using a secondary. 

 

Think of it this way. All weapon classes have a ranges in which they are dominant, and ranges in which they are not.

Increasing bloom with IR simply reduces the overall range at which ARs are serviceable while both allowing them to be the most versatile weapon class in the game, and the dominant weapons class in the 30m-55m range.

 

 

 

tl;dr if you no likey the full auto bloom, use a secondary for the range in which you would full auto (ie: cqc)

 

 

Edited October 21, 2018 by CookiePuss

[Tenginima 74]

11 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Think of it this way. All weapon classes have a ranges in which they are dominant, and ranges in which they are not.

Increasing bloom with IR simply reduces the overall range at which ARs are serviceable while both allowing them to be the most versatile weapon class in the game, and the dominant weapons class in the 30m-55m range.

 

 

 

tl;dr if you no likey the full auto bloom, use a secondary for the range in which you would full auto (ie: cqc)

 

 

However secondaries shouldn't excuse the fact that AR's get more RNG into the equation.

[CookiePuss 5379]

3 minutes ago, Tenginima said:

However secondaries shouldn't excuse the fact that AR's get more RNG into the equation.

As has been explained to you already, you only increase the rng of AR's because of IR if you full auto. 

You only full auto in cqc.

 

 

I dont know how much simpler I can make this.

Edited October 21, 2018 by CookiePuss

[Tenginima 74]

2 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

As has been explained to you already, you only increase the rng of AR's because of IR if you full auto. 

You only full auto in cqc.

 

 

I dont know how much simpler I can make this.

Yes, and the less luck the better. even if you full auto 15m, it will be more RNG with people's current suggestion rather then if we just increase recoil.