OTW 8/17 Balance changes

[CookiePuss 5373]

3 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

depends, what's its "intended" range?

CSG and JG for example should 2 hit up to at least 5-7m
OCA and PMG should be able to 8 hit up to 15-20m
Atac should reliably 8 hit up to 20-30m
 

lol wut?

[Noob_Guardian 417]

3 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

9 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

depends, what's its "intended" range?

CSG and JG for example should 2 hit up to at least 5-7m
OCA and PMG should be able to 8 hit up to 15-20m
Atac should reliably 8 hit up to 20-30m
 

lol wut?

i'm sure you've used each of those weapons i mentioned. Each one at least currently can do exactly what I stated. Though ATAC is closer to a 15-25m 8 hit normally, though it tends to take ~10-12 25+ simply due to bloom.

I was giving examples of what is normally expected with how a weapon should perform, at least on "paper" or how they function currently. If a weapon does not act effectively within its intended range, then it isn't a good weapon. Edited August 22, 2018 by Noob_Guardian

[Luminesca 102]

On 8/17/2018 at 9:25 PM, Hexerin said:

Grabs popcorn and waits for the inevitable shitstorm of weeping cries from NTEC mains.

Laughs in 778 average population.

[SirEdwin 4]

16 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Fang is already affected by the IR change. 
It now has greater range than other RFPs, but a slower burst interval. 

Yea, but im saying that  other rfps are actually better than the fang, so i bought an armas weapon thats less powerful than a free weapon. I dont have any problem with its burst interval reduction (it seems balanced with the range), despite those 3 bullets from a burst are moving so slow towards the enemy that the target can even easily evade them... (if the enemy is running u cant really hit any) It should be changed or reverted, but only the speed of the bullets, not the burst fire rate. 

[Kevkof 806]

32 minutes ago, SirEdwin said:

Yea, but im saying that  other rfps are actually better than the fang, so i bought an armas weapon thats less powerful than a free weapon. I dont have any problem with its burst interval reduction (it seems balanced with the range), despite those 3 bullets from a burst are moving so slow towards the enemy that the target can even easily evade them... (if the enemy is running u cant really hit any) It should be changed or reverted, but only the speed of the bullets, not the burst fire rate. 

The speed at which bullets move wasn't changed, so that's not really anything that needs fixing

[CookiePuss 5373]

33 minutes ago, Kevkof said:

1 hour ago, SirEdwin said:

Yea, but im saying that  other rfps are actually better than the fang, so i bought an armas weapon thats less powerful than a free weapon. I dont have any problem with its burst interval reduction (it seems balanced with the range), despite those 3 bullets from a burst are moving so slow towards the enemy that the target can even easily evade them... (if the enemy is running u cant really hit any) It should be changed or reverted, but only the speed of the bullets, not the burst fire rate. 

The speed at which bullets move wasn't changed, so that's not really anything that needs fixing

^This

Though the Fang now has a ttk of around 1.24 seconds, you also have a 47.5m damage dropoff (49m if new IR stats go live)vs a 40m damage dropoff.
Try to think of it as different rather than worse when compared to the standard RFP.


Full disclosure: I have the Fang account bound on 2 accounts and I too was rather upset at first, but once you get used to it the Fang is still a monster of a gun.


  Edited August 22, 2018 by CookiePuss

[Keshi 436]

8 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

^This

Though the Fang now has a ttk of around 1.24 seconds, you also have a 47.5m damage dropoff (49m if new IR stats go live)vs a 40m damage dropoff.
Try to think of it as different rather than worse when compared to the standard RFP.


Full disclosure: I have the Fang account bound on 2 accounts and I too was rather upset at first, but once you get used to it the Fang is still a monster of a gun.


 

I use the 10day stock rfp from the contact and that alone already hits hard from a distance
Which is why i kinda never bought the fang but i kinda want to buy a permanent rfp...and the UE3.5 is the only thing that will let me throw some money in my account again now
already pushed 100 end july :')

[vsb 6170]

4 hours ago, SirEdwin said:

Yea, but im saying that  other rfps are actually better than the fang, so i bought an armas weapon thats less powerful than a free weapon. I dont have any problem with its burst interval reduction (it seems balanced with the range), despite those 3 bullets from a burst are moving so slow towards the enemy that the target can even easily evade them... (if the enemy is running u cant really hit any) It should be changed or reverted, but only the speed of the bullets, not the burst fire rate. 

armas weapons should never be more powerful than a free weapon

the fang isnt really worse, its just more specialized - better at range in exchange for cqc ability, altho realistically its cqc ability hasnt changed much since you'd rarely hit min ttk anyway

[Nemoss 2]

17 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

CSG and JG for example should 2 hit up to at least 5-7m

CSG and JG are shotguns, not melee weapons. Prepatch JG was like this 5-7m and no one used this shit on missions. CSG with 7m range and 0.8 ttk rly?

[CookiePuss 5373]

39 minutes ago, Nemoss said:

18 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

CSG and JG for example should 2 hit up to at least 5-7m

CSG and JG are shotguns, not melee weapons. Prepatch JG was like this 5-7m and no one used this shit on missions. CSG with 7m range and 0.8 ttk rly?

I think the idea is 10m range and .8 ttk

not that it matters still wont be any good

[SirEdwin 4]

7 hours ago, Kevkof said:

8 hours ago, SirEdwin said:

Yea, but im saying that  other rfps are actually better than the fang, so i bought an armas weapon thats less powerful than a free weapon. I dont have any problem with its burst interval reduction (it seems balanced with the range), despite those 3 bullets from a burst are moving so slow towards the enemy that the target can even easily evade them... (if the enemy is running u cant really hit any) It should be changed or reverted, but only the speed of the bullets, not the burst fire rate. 

The speed at which bullets move wasn't changed, so that's not really anything that needs fixing

It was changed, that's why they want to change also cooling jacket to increase the speed of the bullets in burst fire mode.

6 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

^This

Though the Fang now has a ttk of around 1.24 seconds, you also have a 47.5m damage dropoff (49m if new IR stats go live)vs a 40m damage dropoff.
Try to think of it as different rather than worse when compared to the standard RFP.


Full disclosure: I have the Fang account bound on 2 accounts and I too was rather upset at first, but once you get used to it the Fang is still a monster of a gun.


 

I d also played alot with it , got used to using it, but when i tried the standard one, i realised that it is better ... Edited August 22, 2018 by SirEdwin

[CookiePuss 5373]

9 minutes ago, SirEdwin said:

It was changed, that's why they want to change also cooling jacket to increase the speed of the bullets in burst fire mode. I d also played alot with it , got used to using it, but when i tried the standard one, i realised that it is better ...

IR and CJ used to only effect fire rate within the burst (which is what I think you mean by "speed of bullets").
IR now only effect time between bursts, and the OTW version of cooling jacket is the same. 
The Fang was a big reason for this change as IR3 gave the gun +7m range with absolutely no downside. 

The good news is if you dont like using the Fang anymore, you can get the standard versions of the RFP-9 with in-game cash.  Edited August 22, 2018 by CookiePuss

[SirEdwin 4]

Just now, CookiePuss said:

IR and CJ used to only effect fire rate within the burst (which is what I think you mean by "speed of bullets").
IR now only effect time between bursts, and the OTW version of cooling jacket is the same. 
The Fang was a big reason for this change as IR3 gave the gun +7m range with absolutely no downside. 

The good news is if you dont like using the Fang anymore, you can get tje standsrd versions with in game cash. 

Then tell me why had i spent money on it ? to not use it ?
 

[CookiePuss 5373]

1 minute ago, SirEdwin said:

Then tell me why had i spent money on it ? to not use it ?
 

But you can still use it.
 

[SirEdwin 4]

Just now, CookiePuss said:

But you can still use it.
 

Why would i? If i use it i'll probably die.

[CookiePuss 5373]

2 minutes ago, SirEdwin said:

4 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

But you can still use it.
 

Why would i? If i use it i'll probably die.

It used to unfairly good, and along with the manic, was the best example of p2w in apb. 

You bought it for that advantage, and the gun has suddenly been balanced. That sucks, I get it. 

This has happened before with the nano, the m1922, the Troublemaker, and most recently the Yukon. 

I assure you the gun is still viable, but if you dont want to use it, thats your choice  

[SirEdwin 4]

Just now, CookiePuss said:

It used to unfairly good, and along with the manic, was the best example of p2w in apb. 

You bought it for that advantage, and the gun has suddenly been balanced. That sucks, I get it. 

This has happened before with the nano, the m1922, the Troublemaker, and most recently the Yukon. 

I assure you the gun is still viable, but if you dont want to use it, thats your choice  

Lets continue in private messages, i dont want to spam this topic.

[SirEdwin 4]

On 8/22/2018 at 7:41 PM, BXNNXD said:

armas weapons should never be more powerful than a free weapon

the fang isnt really worse, its just more specialized - better at range in exchange for cqc ability, altho realistically its cqc ability hasnt changed much since you'd rarely hit min ttk anyway

"bullshoot" , nvm lets close this conversation ... Edited August 23, 2018 by SirEdwin

[Keshi 436]

21 hours ago, SirEdwin said:

Id also played alot with it , got used to using it, but when i tried the standard one, i realised that it is better ...

The reason i didn't buy the fang
The stock 10day from contact is still good Edited August 23, 2018 by Keshi

[vsb 6170]

46 minutes ago, SirEdwin said:

"bullshoot"

which part?

[Virgil 55]

Didn't read the thread ,only OP but...

Shredder definitely needs way more than a firerate nerf, thumper too.

[dett2 64]

Shredder need more nerf still OP. nerf firerate little more and effective range should be 20 -> 15m , min damage range should be 40m -> 25m.
Thumper need range and firerate nerf too.
after patch , shotguns are easy to hit and easy to deal damage , that's a problem. 
LO should nerf them immediately , both guns are OverPowered.

to be honest i hope just revert shotgun changes. 

Edited August 30, 2018 by dett2

[Cru 4]

they should just revert , they want to build a house over a rambling ground. It doesnt work like that , since u admited ur mistakes u are still in time to recover from that .

You should just try to focus on improving dead weapons and nerf op weapons , making a patch evry 2 weeks like league of legends does, thats the only way u can do the balance changes , u aint gonna fix all whit massive patches all at 1 time .
SO , revert ( shotguns were fine ) , and start again whit little steps . G1 did not care about the game in the last years , but they werent that bad at balancing, they just made few op shit for the cash $$ but the other stuff was good , and in my opinion u shouldnt change wat they did but fix it instead 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Cru

[Spheri 66]

These are counting in the current OTW changes that'll happen.

JG
So after playing on and off for some time, both financial and waterfront, I'm ready to make a good estimate of the current states of the weapon. 
Right now, the JG has too much range, the JG itself is a powerhouse and will have to make you think twice about your positioning, much like the NFAS did before but now it's almost double the range of that. 
If the JG loses a bit of its range, people will have to consider using IR instead of just ignoring the mod completely. So you can go two ways with this, you either reduce the effective range of the JG, or you take some damage of the powerhouse. Personally I think removing range is a better option here, as shotguns will only get 4.5M increases range, meaning it's fairly small for reduced fire rate. 

CSG
Currently overshadowed by the JG, nerfing the JG will probably put the CSG in the spotlight, but further balancing if necessary will have to be done once the initial nerf of the JG comes out.

Shredder
Extremely forgiving pellet spread allows this "shotgun" to take down targets at longer ranges than intended. Honestly that's fine if that was the intention of a medium-range shotgun, but this thing "shreds" at close range too, allowing for little counterplay unless you adapt and take one out yourself, reducing the fire rate of the shredder will NOT help, the shredder and thumper should be like the NFAS where the reduced fire rate is compensated for its extra range, but it's a bit too much. 

HVR
I see a reduced amount of people playing the HVR, I'm not sure if this is because of a bug that makes you hit nothing, or it's because people got scared of a nerf. The HVR in my opinion is in a good position, it's still an extremely powerfull weapon on defending, and IR will make this an absolute menace if you can snipe even further than the eye can see, but we'll see. 

N-TEC
Ntec, the most versatile weapon still see's a lot of play for obvious reasons, but reducing range on it might make the CR-762 a very attractive alternative for long range as an example. I've always wondered if the NTEC isn't too versatile for what it does, It's an upgrade to the star essentially, but requires some skill to master it. 

OCA and its variants
If it isn't a JG or an N-TEC, it's probably this weapon that sees the most spotlight for good reason. 
Personally I'd rather see the underperforming SMG's get a buff, but nerfing the OCA is fine. 

Apart from the Shredder and JG, I feel like this is a step in the right direction though.
A change in the META is healthy for a game, but make sure it stays true to its roots. Changing a game too much will cause it to lose its soul. It's also pretty good for a business standard. 

 

[Keshi 436]

1 hour ago, Spherii said:

JG
So after playing on and off for some time, both financial and waterfront, I'm ready to make a good estimate of the current states of the weapon. 
Right now, the JG has too much range, the JG itself is a powerhouse and will have to make you think twice about your positioning, much like the NFAS did before but now it's almost double the range of that. 
If the JG loses a bit of its range, people will have to consider using IR instead of just ignoring the mod completely. So you can go two ways with this, you either reduce the effective range of the JG, or you take some damage of the powerhouse. Personally I think removing range is a better option here, as shotguns will only get 4.5M increases range, meaning it's fairly small for reduced fire rate. 

CSG
Currently overshadowed by the JG, nerfing the JG will probably put the CSG in the spotlight, but further balancing if necessary will have to be done once the initial nerf of the JG comes out.

Shredder
Extremely forgiving pellet spread allows this "shotgun" to take down targets at longer ranges than intended. Honestly that's fine if that was the intention of a medium-range shotgun, but this thing "shreds" at close range too, allowing for little counterplay unless you adapt and take one out yourself, reducing the fire rate of the shredder will NOT help, the shredder and thumper should be like the NFAS where the reduced fire rate is compensated for its extra range, but it's a bit too much. 

As someone who always loved shotgun(tasz20 before the ir3 nerf)
The JG makes the csg and tasz look weak

Shredder range needs a hard nerf

The key of weapon balance is to make each gun feel special in certain situation, and ever since the patch i've been feeling this as to people are using new toys instead of the daily ntec, hvr qs, carbine so LO is def going into the right direction. Just some tweaks missing to correct the balance and we good, even tho people will always find something to complain Edited August 29, 2018 by Keshi