Why shotguns are so inconsistent (especially JG) and how it could be fixed.

[Senodus 49]

So right now we have it so the pellet pattern inside the cone of spread is completely random. Because of this the patterns on the JG often are very unfavorable when you for example shoot with half of the spread cone on the target, but the pellet patter put 90% of the pellets on the side of the cone that is not on target. Example pic.
You should have hit with 50% of the spreads damage but you didn't because of bad RNG. This is also why CSG feels so much more consistent. It has more pellets on a smaller area so even with bad pellet RNG you still will have a good portion of the pallets on target.
To fix that I think the shotguns spread patterns should be predetermined and evenly spread inside its cone. Example pic.
This would add way more consistency to the shotguns and those recently propose buffs would not be necessary.
This is just my view on it though. Feel free to post what your ideas are to increase shotguns consistency or what you think about mine.

[Valkyrja- 55]

No

[Senodus 49]

2 minutes ago, xertioN said:

No

Could you explain why?

[TackoGirl 130]

the JG dont need a change i love this shotgun just the way she is.

Jg is for close close range (if your aim is not good enough do not take shotgun) and the Csg's have more range so you make more dmg if the opponent is further away (at least that's how it feels)..

I think that's good as it is so there are shotguns for melee but also for farther away opponents.

Edited July 28, 2018 by TackoGirl

[Senodus 49]

2 minutes ago, TackoGirl said:

the JG dont need a change i love this shotgun just the way she is.

Jg is for close close range (if your aim is not good enough do not take shotgun) and the Csg's have more range so you make more dmg if the opponent is further away.

I think that's good as it is so there are shotguns for melee but also for farther away opponents.

Yeah but the problem is that everything that JG can do in its little range, CSG can do exactly as good + on top of that do it up to a longer range. Which makes running JG pointless.

[TheJellyGoo 343]

So you want to revert back to 2013 times (sadly pics are gone already)!

Also your example of the current spread is wrong. The "cone" is basically a grid with a fixed number of pellets (maybe was one? dunno how many) in each part.
However the location of those pellets is random.
 

Edited July 28, 2018 by TheJellyGoo

[Senodus 49]

4 minutes ago, TheJellyGoo said:

So you want to revert back to 2013 times (sadly pics are gone already)!

Also your example of the current spread is wrong. The "cone" is basically a grid with a fixed number of pellets (maybe was one? dunno how many) in each.
However the location of those pellets is random.
 

Not exactly back to 2013 times cuz it had that ridiculous exact center god pellet.

My point still stands. Because the location of the pellets is random stuff like in the first example can happen. Edited July 28, 2018 by xSagittiSx

[Kempington 295]

What Jelly Goo said.

Imagine the spread as a quadrat (best way to visualize it). Each pellet is assigned a quadrant inside this quadrat. Then, when you fire, the pellet will land somewhere within that quadrant. Each pellet has this. It essentially allows the spread a little bit more randomness, without taking away consistency.

For example, here is the JG's spread.



Apologies for the crude drawing, but this is pretty much what a JG shot looks like.

Before that, we had a "god pellet" (a single pellet that always hit centre of the spread), then a perfect circle around it. This worked for a time, but was a really lazy way of doing the spread. Especially when you could deliberately miss the god pellet and offset your shot just enough to land at least 50% of the pellets with a skim.

Edited July 28, 2018 by Kempington

[Slickmund 58]

Yout point is not entirely invalid, however LO is already planning on changing the shotgun play, dmg wise, not spread wise. I say we see how that plays out first.

[Senodus 49]

3 minutes ago, Kempington said:

What Jelly Goo said.

Imagine the spread as a quadrat (best way to visualize it). Each pellet is assigned a quadrant inside this quadrat. Then, when you fire, the pellet will land somewhere within that quadrant. Each pellet has this. It essentially allows the spread a little bit more randomness, without taking away consistency.

For example, here is the JG's spread.



Apologies for the crude drawing, but this is pretty much what a JG shot looks like.

Before that, we had a "god pellet" (a single pellet that always hit centre of the spread), then a perfect circle around it. This worked for a time, but was a really lazy way of doing the spread. Especially when you could deliberately miss the god pellet and offset your shot just enough to land at least 50% of the pellets with a skim.

Thanks for clarification. But it's interesting since sometimes when I look back at some of my clips frame by frame where I shoot 2 times on someone it seems to put the entire spread to one side.But maybe it has something to do with the fact that client and server side spread is desynced.
And yeah the thing with the god pellet was stupid, wouldn't want that to return.

[Nite 261]

37 minutes ago, xSagittiSx said:

But maybe it has something to do with the fact that client and server side spread is desynced.

More likely, enemy hitbox on the server doesn't match enemy character model on your screen.

The bigger issue is UI based - shotguns (except the strife) use the same crosshair as rifles, which tells you nothing about where you're aiming the "cone of influence" vs where your target is.

Shotguns need a new, Strife derived crosshair that's more informative.

[vsb 6174]

shotguns are inconsistent because the servers are garbage

[TheJellyGoo 343]

I argue that most of the time it isn't even the fault of the server and people just missed.
As someone who watched his own gameplay on several occasions in the past it is just a matter of perception in the heat of moment.

(Not saying the server doesn't go ape on you sometimes but you know...)

 

[CookiePuss 5382]

Yeah, servers are obv bad for shotguns... matt has said so himself.
But people also assume a hitmarker = full damage when it may only mean 1 pellet hit. 
Either way, the buff should help somewhat. 

[Senodus 49]

1 hour ago, TheJellyGoo said:

I argue that most of the time it isn't even the fault of the server and people just missed.
As someone who watched his own gameplay on several occasions in the past it is just a matter of perception in the heat of moment.

(Not saying the server doesn't go ape on you sometimes but you know...)

 

Yeah when I watch my clips I notice that the shooting animation is always delayed. When you click the pellets go where the crosshair was at that moment but the animation starts tiny bit later and if you were off target but moved your aim on target again in that time frame it looks as if it was the games fault you missed instead of yours. =/ Edited July 28, 2018 by xSagittiSx

[magik 184]

2 hours ago, Nite said:

The bigger issue is UI based - shotguns (except the strife) use the same crosshair as rifles, which tells you nothing about where you're aiming the "cone of influence" vs where your target is.

Shotguns need a new, Strife derived crosshair that's more informative.

What does the strife's crosshair look like?

[Senodus 49]

Just now, Sergsininia said:

2 hours ago, Nite said:

The bigger issue is UI based - shotguns (except the strife) use the same crosshair as rifles, which tells you nothing about where you're aiming the "cone of influence" vs where your target is.

Shotguns need a new, Strife derived crosshair that's more informative.

What does the strife's crosshair look like?

Google it or watch a yt video of some gameplay with it? Imo too it will be way better than the current shotgun crosshair. 

[magik 184]

This certainly looks nicer and more informative.
All shotguns should have this crosshair.

[Hexerin 1142]

4 hours ago, Kempington said:

Snip cause long.

When was this change pushed?

[Senodus 49]

7 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

4 hours ago, Kempington said:

Snip cause long.

When was this change pushed?

In November 2013.

[speee 90]

1 hour ago, Sergsininia said:

This certainly looks nicer and more informative.
All shotguns should have this crosshair.

Better yet, we should be able to choose. 

[Hexerin 1142]

8 minutes ago, xSagittiSx said:

In November 2013.

I can guarantee you it wasn't a thing then. I was still playing back then, and we most definitely were still using center dot and circle design.

[Senodus 49]

1 minute ago, Hexerin said:

10 minutes ago, xSagittiSx said:

In November 2013.

I can guarantee you it wasn't a thing then. I was still playing back then, and we most definitely were still using center dot and circle design.

https://apbreloaded.gamersfirst.com/2013/11/quick-update-today-i-call-shotgun.html

[TheJellyGoo 343]

1 hour ago, Hexerin said:

1 hour ago, xSagittiSx said:

In November 2013.

I can guarantee you it wasn't a thing then. I was still playing back then, and we most definitely were still using center dot and circle design.

Maybe read the source of the post where I mentioned it very first in this topic?

  Edited July 28, 2018 by TheJellyGoo