SARD Anti-Cheat Update

[Nagletz 215]

It's kinda amusing when most of the players vouch for "permanently ban all fkn cheaters instantly", yet when someone in particular gets banned and people acknowledge who that is, so many named cheater's defenders appearing claiming he's "just good and yall are stupid silvers l2p". APB is really have cheating-basing fanon of some kind, people want to be as good as possible, training their aim to the insane grades (which is not really bad), idolizing cheaters, sometimes without realizing that. The system here suggests something... flexible? I'd still be agree about permabans, regarding speedhackers at least. When it comes to aimbotters and triggerbotters it's a very slippery topic and i can understand such decision regarding that. However, new system just have to take in consideration in-game and (if that possible lmaooo) support reports, including old reports before SARD update, there's so many blatant cheaters running around right now which have no doubt collected many, including mine. Some of them are actually discussing their own sht like it's a weather talk or something. however i think it's mostly my fellow russians confidence. xD 

 

[MACKxBOLAN 431]

46 minutes ago, Nagletz said:

just good and yall are stupid

Been the standard reply and Hacker Motto for Years. 

 This is part of their sociopathic rhetoric, 

They say these things as if it were written in a sports play book.

The object being to make you feel inferior and cause you to lose confidence. 

While at the same time trying to boost their own ego, and possible make you think 

they are not cheating. 

 Their objective is to make you quit playing.

These people only play games they can cheat at.

To them the game is like a Club-House, You are welcome to come in, 

as long as they can bash and meme you. 

 Now if two hackers fight each other, knowing the other has hax, 

they will blame the gun, accuse the other of using it for a Crutch.

Then they will go into the semantics of the gun and go on in chat 

about the ttk and range specs of the gun. Again trying to make the chat audience feel inferior, 

 All being part of their Mind Scam. 

Most hackers know each other, and are in communication via Discord, 

So even using the in-game chat is obsolete to them, so if they are using it, 

it is for You to hear or see. 

 Now some hackers may be able to play, but for the most part they can't. 

Not without hax and or other exploits in play such as spies within the enemy team or 

outside the mission. So in reality they are the ones who are 'Bad', 

they also suffer from ego issues, and so they compensate for their Failed life 

by trying to bring others down to their level so they feel big and important. 

 Not all but most of your career cheaters are gonna have some sort of social imbalance or 

psychological issues, possibly stemming from early childhood events or pre-existing psychiatric

issues.  

 

[Nagletz 215]

5 minutes ago, MACKxBOLAN said:

Been the standard reply and Hacker Motto for Years. 

 This is part of their sociopathic rhetoric, 

They say these things as if it were written in a sports play book.

The object being to make you feel inferior and cause you to lose confidence. 

While at the same time trying to boost their own ego, and possible make you think 

they are not cheating. 

 Their objective is to make you quit playing.

These people only play games they can cheat at.

To them the game is like a Club-House, You are welcome to come in, 

as long as they can bash and meme you. 

 Now if two hackers fight each other, knowing the other has hax, 

they will blame the gun, accuse the other of using it for a Crutch.

Then they will go into the semantics of the gun and go on in chat 

about the ttk and range specs of the gun. Again trying to make the chat audience feel inferior, 

 All being part of their Mind Scam. 

Most hackers know each other, and are in communication via Discord, 

So even using the in-game chat is obsolete to them, so if they are using it, 

it is for You to hear or see. 

 Now some hackers may be able to play, but for the most part they can't. 

Not without hax and or other exploits in play such as spies within the enemy team or 

outside the mission. So in reality they are the ones who are 'Bad', 

they also suffer from ego issues, and so they compensate for their Failed life 

by trying to bring others down to their level so they feel big and important. 

 Not all but most of your career cheaters are gonna have some sort of social imbalance or 

psychological issues, possibly stemming from early childhood events or pre-existing psychiatric

issues.  

 

Bro. You better than me should know that everyone has issues and insecurities, damn, even i did cheating in GTAO bcuz of money previously, and that's not something i'm proud of... among other things, my title kinda, uk... but this game just doesn't seem to deserve such toxicity. From my retrospective, It used to be centered around fun and customization, maybe some fragmovies (but with actually cooler music lmfao, gen z cry pls i need salt) which has soul in it. Now it just deserves to die, or just be in a better universe to live and be played on, not in a struggle.

And ffs stop write like that. You're supposed to be an adult at this point, you know...

[Bruhd101 25]

2 hours ago, Nagletz said:

, even i did cheating in GTAO bcuz of money previously, and that's not something i'm proud of.

I know this is a weird thing to say, but you aren't proud of it for money-related stuff? Especially with how Rockstar ruined the economy and how Ai on any decent-paying mission/ heist are as atrocious as GTA 3 and 3d era psp games with their +85% accuracy and dumping a whole mag in milliseconds in long-distance

 

I guess with me, it is because I helped people to enjoy the game (making other people earn enough millions to balance the inflation while people that never played prime GTAO got to experience the original heists which had less of the ai bs and where goated (outside of prison break with an awful crew)), especially in a world filled with the Griefing script kiddies on pc and how everything became 9-5 jobs of going 10 miles back and forth with broomstick witches on your butt

 

 

 

 

Edited November 15 by Bruhd101

[BlatMan 711]

On 11/14/2024 at 11:30 AM, Queen of Love said:

Allow ninjaripper, noobs.

 

You might be able to get RenderDoc working in Linux. I'm not sure if SARD will stop it. I haven't tried it. Actually, I did try it and it seems to work.

https://forums.gamersfirst.com/topic/120-the-amazing-apb-reloaded-3d-render-community/?do=findComment&comment=252086

 

https://renderdoc.org/

 

These threads might help you set it up.

https://forums.gamersfirst.com/topic/20780-apb-130-on-linux-now-including-easy-non-steam-method/

https://old.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/iw2mgi/need_help_attaching_renderdoc_to_steam_game/

Edited November 17 by BlatMan

[Nagletz 215]

20 hours ago, Bruhd101 said:

I know this is a weird thing to say, but you aren't proud of it for money-related stuff? Especially with how Rockstar ruined the economy and how Ai on any decent-paying mission/ heist are as atrocious as GTA 3 and 3d era psp games with their +85% accuracy and dumping a whole mag in milliseconds in long-distance

 

I guess with me, it is because I helped people to enjoy the game (making other people earn enough millions to balance the inflation while people that never played prime GTAO got to experience the original heists which had less of the ai bs and where goated (outside of prison break with an awful crew)), especially in a world filled with the Griefing script kiddies on pc and how everything became 9-5 jobs of going 10 miles back and forth with broomstick witches on your butt

 

 

 

 

Somehow it's more satisfying to earn things in there legitimately, despite broken economy. Cheating is cheating in the end of the day... yes, i did helped random people too, hosting 15m heists, helping them to do their own etc, slowly realizing some of them are getting dependant on me. However, i did some griefing as well, trying to hide myself cheating like a truly APB player would do, i guess its just a nature of us APB players lmao. It gets boring, and very fast btw. I don't know how mfs in here do cheat for years and still here, not even trying to confess to themselves it worth nothing let alone change something...

Edited November 16 by Nagletz

[Bruhd101 25]

4 hours ago, Nagletz said:

getting dependant on me

You just reminded me I use to get messages alot about the when is the next heist or so 

It kinda got tiring tbh

 

at the same time it felt rewarding to me anyways considering many people still fumble prison break alot, or how I be picking low levels to do heists outside of Serie A funding (easiest of the 4 other heists that arent fleeca) or when am playing the heists on hard

Edited November 16 by Bruhd101

[Yapopal 169]

Today I met with a cheater and came to the conclusion that anti-cheat is useless. Judge for yourself, the cheater plays and spoils the game, accumulating points, he is banned after three hours in the game. He returns to the game under a different name, continuing to spoil the game. Anti-cheat does not bring any benefit to the average player, because the player does not care what nickname the cheater has - gamer 1234 or gamer 4321. Matt, unlock the damn exit button from the mission, this is the only way to get rid of the negative influence of the cheater on the average player.

Edited November 16 by Yapopal

[LilyRain 674]

Yet again, I told them that chasing Cheaters and messing with the matchmaker would simply be a waste of time against actual game improvement.

It looks like I was right after all, heh.

[Darkzero3802 611]

You need to do more then just SARD. SARD hasnt worked well and there is no evidence of cheaters being banned. You need more then SARD alone to combat this but the biggest thing LO can do is adopt a 0 tolerance policy against cheaters and actually put effort into it. When you have cheaters actively streaming their cheats on Twitch and not being banned it shows LO isnt doing anything and the cheaters arent afraid and know they wont get banned.

[kidi 14]

cheat fucking points my patootie

[MACKxBOLAN 431]

32 minutes ago, kidi said:

cheat  points

 I have my own brand of cheat points.

 We'll call them Patootie Points.

So You don't have to necessarily let me see you hacking. 

Pretty much a 2 Strikes n You're OUT. 

I consider a few things that lean my opinion one way or another.

Name's, Threat, Demeanor in Chat, if car trolling, and other gut feelings. 

With aim hackers you need to sorta check em out, consider if they could

have seen you and aimed that fast, and or missed a few or not missed any. 

So I need at least two times of me highly suspecting smooth aim or full bot was used. 

One of the things i watch for are Golds or Gud's that come in talking about other people hacking. 

But are otherwise toxic, as if they work for the Good Guys.

 Now none of this mean i will or won't report, it just makes you a patootie to Mack. 

The result being i will play in different fashion.

Now this doesn't mean that if you troll me twice and call my mama names, I think 

You're a Hacker, No I think you're a patootie. 

But I also think you are just as much a cancer to this game as the hacker. 

So it comes down to Judgement by Patootie Points.

Then you are considered a 'Known' in my book. 

  

[Westford 167]

I’m kind of up in the air about the proposed “Cheat Points” accrual,
and subsequent segregation pools.

I’m guessing this approach is specific to Districts and not Fight Club.
A segregation pool for Fight Club would imply that Cheaters would be
forwarded to one instance of FC , but non-Cheaters would be forwarded
to another instance of FC.

I do not believe Jericho has the population to populate 2 FC’s.
If this is the case than Cheaters and non-Cheaters would still exist in only
one FC instance, defeating the purpose of “Cheat Points” and segregation.
And with no more bans, FC might not be the best place for non-Cheaters
to engage in any competitive gameplay, as it has not been able to exist between these two player types.

So basically no competitive gameplay would be had in FC.

So with Districts being the viable option where the population “might”
support this concept of segregation pools, then comes the question of incentives.

No Bans anymore for Cheaters.
Cheaters can enjoy the use of 3rd party tools, potentially a short lived experience
going up against non-Cheaters until that Cheater reaches a certain threshold to
be segregated to the Cheater Pool.

A fair assumption that there will always be some Cheaters that have not yet reached that
threshold, and until such time, will continue competing against non-Cheaters.

What incentive will there be for non-Cheaters to not Cheat ?
There are no longer any penalties for Cheating, so ……

There really is no incentive that I can see for a Cheater to not cheat.
They will continue playing, potentially going up against other Cheaters.
May the best Aimbot win, so to speak.

I’m still trying to wrap my head around how this is all going to all play out.
Although, it may be a few months I guess until Microsoft certifies the SARD drivers and such.

 

Curious how this will all work.
If Matt ever wants to do a Q/A specially about this new concept, that would be an interesting discussion.

EDIT:
Here's another scenario that will probably come up, but not sure how it would be handled.

4 friends create their group to team up and play.
One of the players has reached the "Cheater" threshold, and marked for segregation.
The other 3 friends have not, or are non=Cheating characters/players.
They K up for a mission.

How is segregation handled in this scenario ?
 

Edited November 18 by Westford

[Uhtdred 238]

game is full of cheaters, unplayable.

now obt and cbt veterans are cheating too, they KNOW they aren't getting banned.

people still try to hide the fact that FF was the best anti cheat we ever had.

Edited November 18 by Uhtdred

[Darkzero3802 611]

On 11/18/2024 at 5:45 PM, Uhtdred said:

game is full of cheaters, unplayable.

now obt and cbt veterans are cheating too, they KNOW they aren't getting banned.

people still try to hide the fact that FF was the best anti cheat we ever had.

FailFight still failed more then is succeeded. It did more then any anti cheat Matt and LO have tried and retried but it still failed pretty badly as you still had plenty of hackers running around and not getting banned

[Uhtdred 238]

8 hours ago, Darkzero3802 said:

FailFight still failed more then is succeeded. It did more then any anti cheat Matt and LO have tried and retried but it still failed pretty badly as you still had plenty of hackers running around and not getting banned

at least it actually banned people, SARD isn't

[MACKxBOLAN 431]

5 hours ago, Uhtdred said:

it actually banned people, SARD isn't

I would agree that FF was the best we've had, it may have had faults but the 

Hud announcements that So n So got banned, was comforting to legits. 

 Thing is that now we have to wait for Microsoft to sign off on the new AC. 

So again we are waiting. 

  Worst part of hackers is they want to hang out in the cool people spots. 

Basically so the cool people haven't had a place to hang since desegregation. 

So unless sard/Matt's restriction plan includes removing said hacks from action districts. 

 The game will have lost many amenities as a Free Rome game. 

Its so full of hater trolls, using the music player is out. 

Hackers way of protesting sard is to troll non hackers out of the game. 

Always has been, if they don't know you as a cheater, they attack you. 

[Revoluzzer 274]

I guess it's easier for anticheat-developers to test drive stuff like this on smaller titles like APB. Less risk to burn your reputation if it does go wrong. But a great case study to sell their product to big games if it goes well.

 

Since I don't like the idea of running non-critical software with potentially system-breaking access, I'd much prefer a purely server-sided approach using big data and neural networks.

 

Going with a shadow-ban approach is the better way to go, too, I believe. If it doesn't impact matchmaking too much, which it will at such low player numbers. So you'll need to get that sorted out somehow as well.

Outright banning people has led to false bans. Not outright banning people has led to cheaters running rampant (and/or people feeling this way). To pit potential cheaters against other ones might even lead to more reliable data.

 

On 11/22/2024 at 2:44 AM, Darkzero3802 said:

FailFight still failed more then is succeeded. It did more then any anti cheat Matt and LO have tried and retried but it still failed pretty badly as you still had plenty of hackers running around and not getting banned

I'm still curious if FairFight couldn't accommodate for the fact that APB gives players what is essentially wallhacks in some missions and thus couldn't make proper use of the data, since everyone at some point showed signs of being at least a wallhacker. Also third person view allowing players to track others "through walls" when peaking around a corner using the camera, while the line-of-sight between (LOS) barrel and target is obstructed. And subsequently "instantly locking on" to a target once the player moves out of cover, thus technically establishing LOS according to some data, while already having LOS according to other data.

[iRawwwN 283]

1 hour ago, Revoluzzer said:

Since I don't like the idea of running non-critical software with potentially system-breaking access, I'd much prefer a purely server-sided approach using big data and neural networks.

I'd prefer a server sided approach with active GM's to inspect and prioritise gamers.

1 hour ago, Revoluzzer said:

Going with a shadow-ban approach is the better way to go, too, I believe. If it doesn't impact matchmaking too much, which it will at such low player numbers. So you'll need to get that sorted out somehow as well.

100%, pop is too low to shadow-ban. Cheaters will just keep rerolling new accounts when they think they're getting stuffed when it comes to MM, not like this doesn't happen already.

 

Matt, what's the % of new accounts in a year to new accounts banned within 1 year?

1 hour ago, Revoluzzer said:

I'm still curious if FairFight couldn't accommodate for the fact that APB gives players what is essentially wallhacks in some missions and thus couldn't make proper use of the data, since everyone at some point showed signs of being at least a wallhacker. Also third person view allowing players to track others "through walls" when peaking around a corner using the camera, while the line-of-sight between (LOS) barrel and target is obstructed. And subsequently "instantly locking on" to a target once the player moves out of cover, thus technically establishing LOS according to some data, while already having LOS according to other data.

APB is the type of game where tracking players through walls isn't a great indicator. Should be time spent tracking target vs average, STK vs average (and some other measurements), and then anything in the above 3% should added to a list and inspected. Anything higher and whole accounts/messages etc should be inspected. Groupings etc. All of it, the usual cheaters all spend time in discord together but for the most part group together and jerk themselves.

 

Again, ACTIVE GM's would be a great help but Matt can't trust anyone for such a role... again due to the low pop of the game, favourites usually arise.

Edited Saturday at 04:30 PM by iRawwwN

[RoxieBragg 1]

How are you going to say there is a point system. But, not explain what that system even means????? What happens when someone get's 5 points, 10 points, etc etc??? And how does someone know if they have points on them or not? IE how does someone know if they are getting hit with false positive points or not? This doesn't seem very well thought out or at least y'all aren't being transparent enough about the new system to make it seem as though it is. 

[iRawwwN 283]

 

Basically?

[Hexerin 1140]

5 hours ago, iRawwwN said:

 

Basically?

It's the same song and dance as antivirus programs. The malware (cheats) are made by the same people that maintain the antivirus programs (anticheats).

[Anella 70]

15 hours ago, Hexerin said:

It's the same song and dance as antivirus programs. The malware (cheats) are made by the same people that maintain the antivirus programs (anticheats).

So basically we're doomed?

[Darkzero3802 611]

16 hours ago, Anella said:

So basically we're doomed?

Basically. LO has been trying the same thing over and over expecting different results. Fact is that the same thing has happened each time and LO fails to either care enough to crack down and do more or just tolerates hackers.

[Anella 70]

Must be some sort of not care any more, sadly