Optimize APB Reloaded

[Shiniko 5]

While APB runs on different engine than Fallen Earth, I'll assume for the following that G1 had about the same coding prowess in both games.

 

From reading MattScott's State of the Game posts on the FE subforum, G1's code base was so beyond mangled that they had multiple include libraries and repeated code all over the place where they didn't need to be, which would slow down the game severely since it's calling external code where it doesn't need to. Alot of LO's current work there is properly reorganizing all this stuff, and pretty much just making sure that existing code is placed where it should be. While Matt hasn't made a SotG post for APB, I'm hoping that fact means that we're in a slightly better state than FE is, and might get performance fixes sooner. All things said, it should improve performance quite a bit after they're done, but no telling when that would be since we don't really how the scale of the codebase LO has to sift through.

[LilyV3 323]

compressing? so it runs worse on peoples end? because anything compressed needs to be decompressed before being used.

 

compression with loss of information? so we get more crappy graphics?

 

quite easy saying they should optimise, but we have seen performance "optimisation" in the past leading to reduced graphic details.

 

 

Lo hopefully will just optimise soem stuff when they do the engine upgrade. but how much is possible for them, we will just have to see.

 

Edited June 18, 2018 by LilyV3

[Kimotsi 41]

hopefully the new engine will favor older systems

[UnawarePolarBear 50]

10 hours ago, Darkzero3802 said:

While yes a new engine would be a vast improvement optimizing what we currently have would at least make things more bearable. I dont think this engine upgrade is going to be out for sev months so getting what improvement we can now helps.

Ok, but I feel as if you're assuming it's a flip of a switch for them to do these things, when in reality it isn't. There's a cost for everything - and if it includes diverting resources from an engine upgrade, it's a no from me dawg.

[KyoukiDotExe 231]

Upgrade first, optimize later. Just like processors in a tick tock fashion. First release a new cpu based on a new architecture/process node. Then optimize it further.

[m-mme 4]

Better go for the engine update directly instead of wasting money.

With the engine update waiting in line, it makes economy wise no sense to pump money into these optimizations right now.

 

Edited June 18, 2018 by m-mme

[Darkzero3802 611]

4 hours ago, m-mme said:

Better go for the engine update directly instead of wasting money.

With the engine update waiting in line, it makes economy wise no sense to pump money into these optimizations right now.

 

With the problems plaguing the server since battle eye there might not be a choice.

[BlakeEclipse 15]

53 minutes ago, Darkzero3802 said:

With the problems plaguing the server since battle eye there might not be a choice.

Optimizing the game has nothing to do with the servers. I think thats what you do not understand. Optimizing the game would lead to better fps and less stuttering (client side). Nothing to do with the servers.

[ElectroStingz 53]

Hello,

18 hours ago, Darkzero3802 said:

This has been an issue since G1 took over in which they released updates, patches, hotfixes without optimizing the game files and compressing them so they the game would run smoother and with less issues and space required. I think optimizing all the files would benefit not only the playerbase but LO and the servers as things would run smoother.

 

I don' know if you ever read the APB Blogs back in 2013, this makes good reading if you would like to know more on the history of the APB tweaks and why what you are asking for is seen as a waste of time.

 

https://apbreloaded.gamersfirst.com/2013/02/optimization-magic.html

 

https://apbreloaded.gamersfirst.com/2013/10/colliding-with-gta-v-train-and-getting.html

 

Quote

Due to the vintage of the engine, we keep bumping up against performance limitations, and also severe limitations in our product development speed. Because we use many custom systems in the game, it takes a very long time for our team to make material changes to the game, resulting in a lot of features being shelved or delayed.

An upgraded engine would let us tackle important things like min-spec system performance, lighting system improvements, net code improvements and new graphic card optimizations and it would likely lead to a faster content creation pipeline by taking advantage of new systems available in the updated engine.

Back then it was already tried with the outcome being to move forward and proceed with the engine upgrade.

[Darkzero3802 611]

40 minutes ago, BlakeEclipse said:

Optimizing the game has nothing to do with the servers. I think thats what you do not understand. Optimizing the game would lead to better fps and less stuttering (client side). Nothing to do with the servers.

Better fps would make the game more playable no? As for the servers is as I said elsewhere. New ones are required as G1 downgraded them to cheaper ones as the yrs went on so they could save a buck for their pockets. Normally the more data thats used the slower things r no? I would think less data would help the servers alittle.

25 minutes ago, ElectroStingz said:

Hello,

 

I don' know if you ever read the APB Blogs back in 2013, this makes good reading if you would like to know more on the history of the APB tweaks and why what you are asking for is seen as a waste of time.

 

https://apbreloaded.gamersfirst.com/2013/02/optimization-magic.html

 

https://apbreloaded.gamersfirst.com/2013/10/colliding-with-gta-v-train-and-getting.html

 

Back then it was already tried with the outcome being to move forward and proceed with the engine upgrade.

Wether its a waste or not something needs to be done to help things untill an engine upgrade is ready. Its like the oil in ur car after 3,000 miles it needs to be changed cause its dirty and it starts doing harm. Ignoring that means eventually ull burn up all the oil and the engine will sieze up. Thats after all the dirty oil slowly damages the pistons. The APB servers and data were left alone for so long that there are big issues that cant be fixed that simply. Look at how unstable the servers are now, something has to be done with what we currently have otherwise its all going to crash for an extended amount of time.

[Rosseau90 4]

There is nothing left to do but wait for the new engine.

[ElectroStingz 53]

46 minutes ago, Darkzero3802 said:

Wether its a waste or not something needs to be done to help things untill an engine upgrade is ready. Its like the oil in ur car after 3,000 miles it needs to be changed cause its dirty and it starts doing harm. Ignoring that means eventually ull burn up all the oil and the engine will sieze up. Thats after all the dirty oil slowly damages the pistons. The APB servers and data were left alone for so long that there are big issues that cant be fixed that simply. Look at how unstable the servers are now, something has to be done with what we currently have otherwise its all going to crash for an extended amount of time.

 

Interesting analogy but in this case it is not about changing the oil. What has happened so far is that the oil is constantly being topped up. The APB bus has reached it's service life, the leather seats are no longer leather. The wheel bearings are toast, the pison rings are worn, the valves do not seat correctly and the engine is misfiring. It has served its purpose and now is beyond economical repair, furthermore the engine was heavily modified to the point of making some changes impossible to reverse. Lets say the head has been skimmed, inlet ports bored, custom designed exhaust manifold, custom designed pistons...

 

Do you change the oil to try and keep it going or consider the alternative, we need a better engine / newer car to take our customers into the furture. (as already mentioned by other users)

Yes I would like the game to be better, anything that helps but the biggest problem is the outdated hard to modify engine.

 

Imagine all the APB players that have been waiting for years reacting to a new update that aims at trying to provide the current engine with optimisations.

It might not go down very well especially for a developer that is trying to restore confidence among the playerbase.

 

Can I also ask, what are your issues (performance related) right now with the game?

Most reasonable PCs can obtain a solid 60fps, stutters are more noticeable on HDDs, my gaming experience without considering DDoS related issues isn't that bad.

Edited June 18, 2018 by ElectroStingz

[Darkzero3802 611]

3 minutes ago, ElectroStingz said:

 

Interesting analogy but in this case it is not about changing the oil. What has happened so far is that the oil is constantly being topped up. The APB bus has reached it's service life, the leather seats are no longer leather. The wheel bearings are toast, the pison rings are worn, the valves do not seat correctly and the engine is misfiring. It has served its purpose and now is beyond economical repair, furthermore the engine was heavily modified to the point of making some changes impossible to reverse. Lets say the head has been skimmed, inlet ports bored, custom designed exhaust manifold, custom designed pistons...

 

Do you change the oil to try and keep it going or consider the alternative, we need a better engine / newer car to take our customers into the furture. (as already mentioned by other users)

Yes I would like the game to be better, anything that helps but the biggest problem is the outdated hard to modify engine.

 

Imagine all the APB players that have been waiting for years reacting to a new update that aims at trying to provide the current engine with optimisations.

It might not go down very well especially for a developer that is trying to restore confidence among the playerbase.

 

Can I also ask, what are your issues (performance related) right now with the game?

Most reasonable PCs can obtain a solid 60fps, stutters are more noticeable on HDDs, my gaming experience without considering DDoS related issues isn't that bad.

My issue perf wise is server lagg. My 6yr old gaming rig handles anything thats avail on max stats thanks to a solid processor and afew months ago I upgraded from my GTX770 to a GTX1050Ti so graphics im fine on for another 6yrs.

As for your question yes I would continue to change the oil and anything else untill I purchased said new car and had the keys in my hand for it. Untill that time the old bus needs to be maintained.

[BrandonBranderson 672]

Compressing the game's files started the decline in performance to begin with.  They also encrypted them which made it even worse just so nobody would steal assets anymore because some shitty mobile game used a Cisco model.

 

The file size isn't the issue here.  As someone else said, Any file that is compressed needs to be decompressed before it can be used, which takes longer than loading a single large file.  A lot of games with huge file sizes run great, and part of that is probably because nothing is compressed.  They care about quality and playability more than how much hard drive space it takes up.  Simply making the files smaller will not help.

Edited June 18, 2018 by BrandonBranderson

[magik 184]

2 hours ago, Darkzero3802 said:

My issue perf wise is server lagg. My 6yr old gaming rig handles anything thats avail on max stats thanks to a solid processor and afew months ago I upgraded from my GTX770 to a GTX1050Ti so graphics im fine on for another 6yrs.

As for your question yes I would continue to change the oil and anything else untill I purchased said new car and had the keys in my hand for it. Untill that time the old bus needs to be maintained.

If your issue is with server lag, then any changes in terms of compression client or server side would not help the game. Server changes, and networking changes help lag. And if you read Matt Scott's post on what they're doing to improve the server performance, they're currently:

 

Quote

• We now have a new DDOS solution that is being tested, and if we find that the results are solid, then the new solution will all but eliminate the kind of lag caused by the existing mitigation solution. I'm already sick and tired of talking about how DDOS mitigation causes lag. I never want that to be an excuse for laggy servers again.
• We did some brainstorming, and we started on some new networking layer changes that will help with DDOS vulnerabilities. These sorts of changes need to be thoroughly tested, but we are committed to making this more difficult.
• We have provisioned several new servers. The player concurrency has doubled since we took over, and we are expanding our ability to host districts and provide a smoother in-game experience.
• We are altering our monitoring to not only determine whether servers are up, but also whether they care actively increasing their concurrent player count and other important metrics that let us know things are running correctly.

So to respond to your suggestion... They're working on the servers. They've been working on the servers. They're also working on the Engine Upgrade. And the engine upgrade takes priority over any new content or ideas.

 

Let the devs do what they feel should be necessary for the game to get back onto its feet again. Yes there are some issues, and patches that could be rolled out, but that diverts resources away from what their end goal would be. If you divert resources away, you delay the time it takes to get the goal. If you divert resources, those skills that have been put to use are moved elsewhere, or effort can be detracted from the end goal. Let the road map they have serve as a guide. Anything that modifies the current engine, anything that is implemented to improve upon the current engine, outside of building a new one shouldn't be worked on. It's like pumping water out of the sinking ship. You'll help it a bit more, but it's still sinking.

 

Anything outside of fixing game breaking glitches, or game breaking patches, should be kept far away from. The devs can fix major issues that could come up, but it's not worth it if most of it will be fixed by the new engine.

[SelttikS 224]

So we should triple compress and encrypt all the files on a quantum level so that it runs better?

 

Server side needs work more than improving how the game is optimized atm. After that the engine update so that the code is something from this decade.

[ElectroStingz 53]

1 hour ago, Darkzero3802 said:

My issue perf wise is server lagg. My 6yr old gaming rig handles anything thats avail on max stats thanks to a solid processor and afew months ago I upgraded from my GTX770 to a GTX1050Ti so graphics im fine on for another 6yrs.

As for your question yes I would continue to change the oil and anything else untill I purchased said new car and had the keys in my hand for it. Untill that time the old bus needs to be maintained.

As others have pointed out, the lag issues are not going to benefit from changes as a result of DDoS mitigation even with a new car but particular vulnerabilities may disappear as a result of the engine upgrade.

Edited June 18, 2018 by ElectroStingz