On APB's weapon balance

[Reprimand 101]

 

This video is really well thought out and pretty much makes me think of things I never considered. The fact that so many mods are locked behind Rank 195 is ridiculous and the barrier of entry for new players is crazy high. If we want to at least make the game fairer we'd make it possible for newer players to be on a level playing field with golds.

[Talla 85]

This video is hitting bullseye on balance points.
But now I'm wondering:

Is it preferable to have a perfectly balanced game? Or a game with good player retention?

It is a well known practice:
Players are more likely to invest themselves (both in time & money) if they think they already are invested.
a.k.a. the sunk cost fallacy.
Progression & unlocking are giving a pragmatic goal to new players and makes them more likely to stick.

Let's say you are the developer.
If you were to remove all "negligible PvP advantages" tied to player progression,
would it actually do more benefit than harm?

 

From the video's point of view, the "investment time to reach an even playing field" also happens to be a barrier to entry.
 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Talla

[Deadliest 388]

new player with star gun and starter car  lol

 

they should all start with a pioneer / espacio.

 

 

 

  

Edited April 19, 2021 by Deadliest

[Reprimand 101]

1 hour ago, Talla said:

This video is hitting bullseye on balance points.
But now I'm wondering:

Is it preferable to have a perfectly balanced game? Or a game with good player retention?

It is a well known practice:
Players are more likely to invest themselves (both in time & money) if they think they already are invested.
a.k.a. the sunk cost fallacy.
Progression & unlocking are giving a pragmatic goal to new players and makes them more likely to stick.

Let's say you are the developer.
If you were to remove all "negligible PvP advantages" tied to player progression,
would it actually do more benefit than harm?

 

From the video's point of view, the "investment time to reach an even playing field" also happens to be a barrier to entry.
 

To answer your first question, very much so. The access to modifications and good weaponry requires quite a heavy grind left behind from previous owners of APB. Consider the permanent vehicles/weapons in game. They cost about 10,000 Joker Tickets which would be in my mind roughly 100 hours of play in Fight Club. This is a number chosen because Little Orbit have revamped the market and made it so any player if they work hard enough can get a permanent weapon or a better vehicle.

 

Now flip over to the contacts in both Districts. To get the best modification in game you need be rank 195. That doesn't include the grinding for weapons with slots aswell. See where the imbalance is? The investment ceiling is higher than it is because Little Orbit haven't taken the time to address the unlock requirements elsewhere in the game. As calculated in the video, it would take you about 10,000 kills to get the same.

[CookiePuss 5382]

APB's new player experience is abysmal.

New engine wont change that.

Something must be done.

[BlatMan 718]

Thinks Nano is a secondary OCA. Thinks OSCAR is Carbine. Ya..... The video being a year old makes it even worse since the primary OCA had 30M back then, and the RFP-9 was better at range.

Edited April 19, 2021 by SquirrelFace

[AlienTM 138]

2 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

APB's new player experience is abysmal.

New engine wont change that.

Something must be done.

like what..with 400 players in total

[CookiePuss 5382]

Just now, AlienTM said:

like what..with 400 players in total

I cant imagine we are getting many new players at the moment.

[AlienTM 138]

1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

I cant imagine we are getting many new players at the moment.

Then the only solutions i see for new players are making T/tutorial district for new players only and locking for the first 25 ranks only for them(first 3 contacts)So they learn the game by playn vs another new players only.They stay T till reaching rank 25-then they get threat based on how well they played.This T district must be like option if new players want to join it

This plus video tutorial attached to the game about apb basics like this made by Reagan years ago..

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by AlienTM

[vsb 6174]

my thoughts on this video haven't changed since it made the rounds a year-ish ago -  its just pointing out a few common sense observations that have already been discussed a billion times and offering no meaningful solutions or suggestions beyond the vague "revamp pls" at the end

 

add in the mistakes on easily verified information and its mostly just a waste of 15 minutes

 

 

[Reprimand 101]

53 minutes ago, xiphos said:

my thoughts on this video haven't changed since it made the rounds a year-ish ago -  its just pointing out a few common sense observations that have already been discussed a billion times and offering no meaningful solutions or suggestions beyond the vague "revamp pls" at the end

 

add in the mistakes on easily verified information and its mostly just a waste of 15 minutes

 

 

He did raise a good point about the ceiling for modifications and weapon slots, while that does add a level of flavour which keeps the weapons balanced the issue is the slog it takes to get to them (which makes it unbalanced)

 

The OSCAR is more like a CQC OBIR in my opinion.

[RETARD 13]

if we give new players everything in the game at the start then leveling up will be boring, the thing that makes this game fun is leveling up and unlocking more op things and 556 and starter pistol isnt that bad of a starter weapon , but we cant give them everything a gold has to start or it'll just make it so boring.

[CookiePuss 5382]

5 hours ago, outfit said:

the thing that makes this game fun is

shooting people
 

[vsb 6174]

5 hours ago, outfit said:

if we give new players everything in the game at the start then leveling up will be boring, the thing that makes this game fun is leveling up and unlocking more op things and 556 and starter pistol isnt that bad of a starter weapon , but we cant give them everything a gold has to start or it'll just make it so boring.

changing progression so that it doesnt take ten thousand hours to unlock everything as a f2p player is not the same as "giving new players everything at the start"

 

also different people feel differently about progression - i for one cant stand the ranking up process and only play on my max rank characters (when pop allows), even as someone who owns everything on armas the progression on a new character is obnoxious and irritating

[Nagletz 219]

In my opinion:

- Weapon roles should be less grindy, like 2x times less.

- Also 16th role should be removed because it makes no sense.

- In continuation, Chrome skin and slightly changed version of 3-slotted guns should be available after 15th role.

- There is have to be kill count after reaching max rank.

- 3rd level mods can be unlocked on 10th level, why not?

- Every role should be account-bounded.

 

Voila! Perfect game with less grind and reasonable rewards.

At least account bounded roles will solve so many problems for veteran players and give no penalty for new players who just reached max rank and already get some kills and some roles gained.

 

Also I have to say that game is not much p2w since half of Armas guns is complete shit. But 3-slotted version of normal ones give players slight advantage. 

However, EVERY gun must be useful on it's own niche WITHOUT mods, like Scout, N-TEC or JG. Just correct me if I'm not right.

 

P.S: Heavy Barrel shouldn't have damage penalty at all. Buff it.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Nagletz

[Reprimand 101]

12 hours ago, Nagletz said:

In my opinion:

- Weapon roles should be less grindy, like 2x times less.

- 3rd level mods can be unlocked on 10th level, why not?

- Every role should be account-bounded.

 

Can you explain this to me please?

23 hours ago, outfit said:

if we give new players everything in the game at the start then leveling up will be boring, the thing that makes this game fun is leveling up and unlocking more op things and 556 and starter pistol isnt that bad of a starter weapon , but we cant give them everything a gold has to start or it'll just make it so boring.

Nobody is saying that, but the fact that most of the meta is locked behind 10,000 hours of gameplay is ridiclous and unbalanced. In order to stand your ground against a gold player you have to pay money for better gear. Before the pandemic I wouldn't have ever been able to get the mods I have on F2P because it just would have taken weeks to earn the cash required.

On 4/19/2021 at 4:03 PM, CookiePuss said:

APB's new player experience is abysmal.

New engine wont change that.

Something must be done.

Can't you ask Matt to drop the rank requirements on this stuff? You're our only Armas contact

[RETARD 13]

its pretty easy to take down these golds with a star 556 and starter pistol , you really dont need to spend money at all to vs golds

[EVInezca 81]

All nice guns I love are Free to Play. And you become then very early without mods. And without Mods its same gun you can make Kills i see no problem. 

And who cant wait for unlock from only playing. Can use armars for more open Mods or can buy Armars Only guns. All  your own decision.

LO maked the balance good. Looking nice all  most played guns.  there are but a few weapons that have really been forgotten.

 

[SacheM 17]

All weapons and mods need unlock but all weapons and mods expensive.Role rewards should be discount.For example rifle man role 14 complete your rewards %35 discount etc.

Edited April 25, 2021 by SacheM

[Gateron 267]

This guy says that the Oscar is a reskin of joker carbine i am done. Also this game was p2w in the past by G1 now that is almost not the case anymore. I do agree you have to grind for open slot guns but it ain't that bad compared to other games but, how else do you expect a F2P game to make revenue? Only game that didn't have P2w in any form was Artic combat as fast as they came and everyone was happy the game still closed because they didn't bring in enough revenue.

 

F2P can't be happy and rainbows. 

[Sniperturtle 65]

If i give brandnew players all weapons, and the not yet created "M1Abrams" car and put them against random rank 125 silvers with just what they have now, the new player will still lose 90% of matches.

This fixation on gear is a mistake all new players make, and this included myself back in the day.

 

The game is not meant to be "perfectly balanced" because that would break the teamplay element where teammates have to account for the individual weaknesses and strengths of their co-players.

Does this create shit moments? - Yes certainly.

But it also creates legendary moments. Sometimes you're the dog, and other times you're the tree - nuff said.

[Noob_Guardian 418]

On 4/19/2021 at 6:38 AM, Reprimand said:

 

This video is really well thought out and pretty much makes me think of things I never considered. The fact that so many mods are locked behind Rank 195 is ridiculous and the barrier of entry for new players is crazy high. If we want to at least make the game fairer we'd make it possible for newer players to be on a level playing field with golds.

 

"OSCAR IS A JOKER CARBINE RESKIN AND FUNCTIONALLY IDENTICAL"

 

dude, this guy had some decent points, but he lacked a billion others that would have been identified with basic game knowledge.

"complains about nano" which got nerfed within like a month. C-9 lasted ages, and he completely ignored the f2p broke guns of their times.

 

2 slotted guns give you the "necessary" mods, 3 gives access to a feel good mod.

 

can i agree its a bit much and guns too expensive? sure, but he ignores that a win nets ~700-2k  apbd generally. 21 wins in 10 days is enough to get a 3 slot easily especially because by the time you can get a 3 slot, you're not a "newb" anymore.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Noob_Guardian