Weapon balance sheet

[Chilavert 9]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1f5XZ3v92R6_gRnRH8D4DkYGpXX5Ic349nNffaqnhQHU/edit?usp=sharing

[owzzy 181]

3 hours ago, EMilika said:

uselles post.... because everyone wants, guns that theyre playing with buffed. 
pss. if you want FBW nerf then delete yukon. and for fuck sake fix .45 being the top dog

Might seem useless to you because you have literally zero sense when it comes to balancing weapons. I could take a guess and say you haven't even used half of these weapons.

[claude 223]

4 hours ago, UwUMaster666 said:

I pray for fucking god that people like this ^ are just ignored by LO. 

Proves my point that forum people shouldn't have a say in balancing shit. 

pretty easy to weed out the bad ones

 

if they say "HVR needs a buff" or "FBW OP" you just ignore it.

[mojical 160]

Nice idea, I tried to comment on every weapon (except grenades, don't think anything needs to be done there):

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vTz7LxjALaLC25i89gwO0zuXulqG-G_NYHvxuO0b-QY/edit?usp=sharing

 

I feel like one of APB's issues in terms of weapon balance is how haphazardly overdamage (damage over the minimum necessary for a gun to achieve its TTK) is distributed accross weapons. For instance, the ISSR-A desperately needs some more damage while the .45 and Obeya would still be more than good enough doing a bit less damage per shot. It seems to me that adding overdamage to the Harbinger helped it more than any of the other changes due to CA3 being everywhere.

 

 

[Dezire 107]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14Se8enEeEPNpq2fst-3hucS_cm3x0zVVcqCLFs352as/edit?usp=sharing

 

thumper revert when???

Edited February 3, 2021 by Dezire

[wHisHi 206]

6 hours ago, EMilika said:

uselles post.... because everyone wants, guns that theyre playing with buffed. 
pss. if you want FBW nerf then delete yukon. and for fuck sake fix .45 being the top dog

Thats your narrative

amazing post, people are delivering

[UwUMaster666 9]

Since I didn't have the chance to try all the weapons out because I'm a f2p player I thought that doing the sheet would result in misinformation.

 

Instead I will just go over the gun play I experienced in mission district and a lot of fc, so if someone disagrees with my pov and shares a different experience, we can discuss it. 

 

Agrotech ACES Rifle: nerf

It's basically a rifle and SMG at the same time. It has a lot of range and accuracy with it, while being able to compete with other SMG's in CQC. If you want this gun to stay in the AR section I would suggest you nerf its CQC abilites. 

 

N-TEC 5: none for now

It's still the good all rounder, not insane at range like Obeya/Obir and not that good in CQC. 

 

N-TEC 7: minor nerf

I agree with lazer that the tap-fire is still too good for it's abilities, literally every silver can beam you with it.

 

Obeya CR762: minor nerf

Unfortunately I don't know how to correctly nerf it, so it doesn't lose its identity and/or gets too weak. Maybe you could start by making it a 6 STK.

 

OSCAR: minor nerf

Apart from being very spammable and having a little bit too much range (considering it's being spammed while hip-firing), I think a minor movement speed nerf while shooting it, would be enough as it is easily countered by SMG's.

 

S1-NA 'Manic': minor buff

Being a SMG used by firing it only in marksman mode, it's harder to track people so you would need that ttk power to have an advantage against other SMG's. I'm not trying to say it needs the same insane ttk time pre-nerf, but it definitely feels like it needs a little too much shots to kill someone. It has good range and accuracy, but it doesn't really stand a chance against other SMG's, so it would help having a 0.7 ttk instead 0.72 while only needing 9 STK instead of 10. Or keeping the 0.72 ttk and only having 9 STK, it would need testing.

 

Colby PMG: minor buff

As seen that many people want the PMG buffed, I must say, don't get the wrong idea of where it's lacking. If you hit your shots it easily can obliterate someone. It's still a good viable SMG. Buffing its ttk or firerate, will result in it being OP again. Where it lacks though, is having the dropoff range nerfed too wildly. While it still has good range (around 30m I think) accuracy, it lacks the damage. Having the OCA overshadow the PMG in really close combat slighty is ok, since PMG is designed as a more ranged SMG, that's where the PMG will overshadow the OCA. Give it at least 5m more dropoff range.

 

JG: major nerf

Having a corner it's THE unbeatable gun in the game. While CSG has that same peek-a-boo potential since it's a shotgun, JG has a fast firerate. Everyone who plays Asylum should know it's capabilites which are ridiculous. Whereas I think that CSG shouldn't be really touched, I still would suggest that JG and CSG have a movement speed reduction while/after shooting, since it's nearly impossible to being able to hit a good JG/CSG player if he peeks-shoots-hides. You can literally spam your OCA at the corner and still only hit *maybe* hit a single shot by luck. But that's not the only problem JG has. It nearly has the same damage as the HVR, with a ttk time of 0.65 seconds. Shotguns have already an advantage by being in a 3rd person shooter and having lots of corners, and you don't have to constantly track people like with SMG, so you have less chance to miss someone than with SMG. APB being APB, no SMG always hits all the shots because RNG and/or having "trouble" tracking the movement of a good player, while you only have to hit 2 Shots with JG, and one is sometimes even enough to kill someone. I had many situations where a player missed like 2-3 shots in a row only strafing me (not making my screen even slightly red), but doing enough damage for the final shot to literally delete me. 

 

O-PGL 79R: nerf

Reduce its radius and/or add a timer like on every other explosive (the stun version of opgl is debatably even more annoying). 

 

Lastly, FBW: nerf

I'm surprised not more people realize how good FBW truly is. Honestly, it's a pick-pocket Carbine with less recoil. It's insanely easy to use since it has so many bullets, has a fast firerate, has really good accuracy even in range (while hip-firing) and basically no recoil. The argument that .45 is better because it has a lower ttk time is actually ridiculous considering that you can only miss 2 shots, have to actually control the gun like no other and hit all of your 5 other shots. Ask any really good player how many times he/she is able to one clip a enemy (even not a good one), comparing it to the times of the FBW. FBW is just insanely much easier not to mention forgiving than any other pistol. The least you can do is to reduce its ammo to 10-11, as it's even easier to use than the FR0G which also has only 10 shots.

 

 

 

 

 

[RespectThis 121]

8 hours ago, claude said:

pretty easy to weed out the bad ones

 

if they say "HVR needs a buff" or "FBW OP" you just ignore it.

I mean the UwU guy you quoted said the Aces Rifle needs to be nerfed. Which by your statement means he should be ignored since it seems absurd to do such a change/say said statement. Which is pretty crazy considering its killing power is pretty bad to be honest. 14stk with a mag size of 35. While it is 2 kills in the mag the chances of you landing 14 perfect shots 2 times is very very unlikely. Also saying the Hvr needs a buff or the fbw is op isn't something to just ignore.  As it is right now the HVR should be buffed by having its damage based on accuracy reverted. Its received multiple damage nerfs in multiple ways. While the scout has been buffed multiple times. Thus having the gap between the HVR and the Scout has become minimal. Where as before you could have a high damage sniper with limited mobility. Then a medium damage sniper with high mobility that didn't require you to swap to your pistol. Point is don't just ignore something because YOU think its bad. Emilika is right in saying it does need a buff. More so a revert but its still a buff none the less. All it ever needed was its based damage reduced slightly.

Edited February 3, 2021 by RespectThis

[claude 223]

1 hour ago, RespectThis said:

I mean the UwU guy you quoted said the Aces Rifle needs to be nerfed. Which by your statement means he should be ignored since it seems absurd to do such a change/say said statement. Which is pretty crazy considering its killing power is pretty bad to be honest. 14stk with a mag size of 35. While it is 2 kills in the mag the chances of you landing 14 perfect shots 2 times is very very unlikely. Also saying the Hvr needs a buff or the fbw is op isn't something to just ignore.  As it is right now the HVR should be buffed by having its damage based on accuracy reverted. Its received multiple damage nerfs in multiple ways. While the scout has been buffed multiple times. Thus having the gap between the HVR and the Scout has become minimal. Where as before you could have a high damage sniper with limited mobility. Then a medium damage sniper with high mobility that didn't require you to swap to your pistol. Point is don't just ignore something because YOU think its bad. Emilika is right in saying it does need a buff. More so a revert but its still a buff none the less. All it ever needed was its based damage reduced slightly.

scout changes (like 90% of the changes LO has made) should be reverted, and the HVR should remain where it is right now.

 

the aces rifle nerf meme is pretty cringe though, we def dont need that.

[RespectThis 121]

27 minutes ago, claude said:

scout changes (like 90% of the changes LO has made) should be reverted, and the HVR should remain where it is right now.

 

the aces rifle nerf meme is pretty cringe though, we def dont need that.

The HVR really shouldn't remain where it is and that's coming from someone who dislikes the gun. The damage to bloom is awful and was just added as a "fun" mechanic to the gun. No gun should function like that in this game tbh. Considering none of them ever have until LO decide to add them in.

[claude 223]

59 minutes ago, RespectThis said:

The HVR really shouldn't remain where it is and that's coming from someone who dislikes the gun. The damage to bloom is awful and was just added as a "fun" mechanic to the gun. No gun should function like that in this game tbh. Considering none of them ever have until LO decide to add them in.

in a game where premades of 3 or 4 players can steamroll anyone as long as they're coordinated, there doesn't have to be a weapon that tags an enemy for nearly all of their health, just for their teammate to finish them off in a single hit.

 

nerfing the HVR to what it is right now barely fixes the issue, you could remove the damage/bloom shit but the HVR will still be too good at its current damage.

 

it straight up doesnt belong in this game.

[BlatMan 711]

I can't make suggestions for most individual weapons because they were locked behind paywalls, but I can give an overall of what I would change.

 

Generic Mechanics:

- Remove all "curve" mechanics. Every weapon should bloom, recoil, damage, etc at a linear rate. It's easy for humans to learn and understand linear change, unlike curve systems. You don't see too many gamers praising mouse acceleration.

- Random horizontal recoil. Some weapons, like the SWARM, have a recoil pattern. This creates two issues. Veterans will have no recoil because they learned it, and new players can just use scripts to bypass it. With random recoil, veterans still need to adjust their aim on the fly, and new players can't use scripts.

- Remove range reduction on suppressors. You cannot remove these mods. Some are red mods which means you cannot use improved rifling with them.

- Remove Medspray. I know, it's not a weapon, but it drastically increases the average ttk of most fights. We can't balance weapons if players can manipulate their HP mid fight with no downsides.

 

Minimum Damage:

- Minimum damage must be more than or equal to 50% of the base damage.

- Distance between minimum and maximum damage greater or equal to 20M.

 

Range:

- Minimum range greater or equal to 20M.

- Revert carbines to 40M.

- Revert rifles to 60M.

- Revert shotguns to 20M.

 

Movement:

- 250ms / 0.25s sprint delay for every weapon.

 

Weapon specific:

- OBIR: Revert the switch weapon delay.

- SNR: Revert the draw time to 0.1s

- RFP-9: Revert latest changes. Make shots to kill 9.

- JG, CSG: Tighten spread, reduce HP damage slightly, but keep 2 shots minimum.

- S-AS PDW: Tighten accuracy radius.

- N-HVR 762: Remove the accuracy affects damage feature. It doesn't make sense, and it is bugged. Sometimes you deal minimum damage while your crosshair is fully closed.

- N-HVR 'Scout': Lower damage to 550. Increase jump accuracy.

- Mountie: Tighten Markmans Mode accuracy.

- Mountie 'Yukon': Remove draw time modifier.

- OCA/PMG: Increase minimum range to 30M.

Edited February 4, 2021 by SquirrelFace

[RespectThis 121]

51 minutes ago, claude said:

in a game where premades of 3 or 4 players can steamroll anyone as long as they're coordinated, there doesn't have to be a weapon that tags an enemy for nearly all of their health, just for their teammate to finish them off in a single hit.

 

nerfing the HVR to what it is right now barely fixes the issue, you could remove the damage/bloom shit but the HVR will still be too good at its current damage.

 

it straight up doesnt belong in this game.

Which is why in my other post I stated they should have just lowered the based damage of it. Also premades steam rolling people shouldn't dictate a weapons balance. Teamplay =/= weapon performance. I can play in a premade an steam roll people with the TG-8. Doesn't mean its broken. Not to mention the DMR-AV hits for 85 at extreme ranges and works very well if not better with coordinated teams. Regardless of teams how the weapon functions currently is terrible and no weapon should have a blooming system like that. Since all it does is slow down gameplay. The weapon has been in the game for a decade now and wasn't crazy broken. Its just annoying to go against hence why its damage should be lowered slightly.

Edited February 4, 2021 by RespectThis

[Flaws 1033]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PKh5cP_wsPzutmhApq1oZLzpjHGXWTAehAEMCtPky-U/edit?usp=sharing

 

I wrote something about almost every weapon, pointed out weaknesses and reasons why they are underused. I also wrote a paragraph under some categories with more detailed thoughts.

 

Generally, I'd also like a revert back to pre-LO stats save for things like the Yukon and maybe COBR-A and then buff some things using ARs like the N-TEC and FAR as base. I think the meta was in a good spot back then, you had a wider choice of viable guns for high tier play and the game was more dynamic, more fun and it lived up to being an arcade shooter which it always has been. Jumpshooting should be back, more accurate full auto should be back, higher mobility across the board should be back. Less bloom, RNG and weird out of place mechanics and other things that force you to stay glued to the ground, exactly where you stand to have any feasible chance to hit. It was more satisfying and you felt like you are in control and if you mess up it was mostly your fault. Nowadays everything feels like an underwhelming casino where the game does a lot of the work through abysmal bloom and leaves you in the hands of RNGesus. Its just not fun, not satisfying, not rewarding, everything feels like its out of your control and no one likes that.

 

I also had a thing to say about grenades in APB in general.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Flaws

[claude 223]

58 minutes ago, RespectThis said:

Which is why in my other post I stated they should have just lowered the based damage of it. Also premades steam rolling people shouldn't dictate a weapons balance. Teamplay =/= weapon performance. I can play in a premade an steam roll people with the TG-8. Doesn't mean its broken. Not to mention the DMR-AV hits for 85 at extreme ranges and works very well if not better with coordinated teams. Regardless of teams how the weapon functions currently is terrible and no weapon should have a blooming system like that. Since all it does is slow down gameplay. The weapon has been in the game for a decade now and wasn't crazy broken. Its just annoying to go against hence why its damage should be lowered slightly.

powerful weapons/mods/items that are strong in premades are either in the process of being nerfed or are labeled as OP or unfair by literally everyone who plays the game. Spotter, mobile radar tower, flare gun/firework launcher, blowtorch, *HVR*, i might be missing a couple of others but there absolutely are reasons to rebalance a weapon if it's too good when used by premades. 

[RespectThis 121]

8 minutes ago, claude said:

powerful weapons/mods/items that are strong in premades are either in the process of being nerfed or are labeled as OP or unfair by literally everyone who plays the game. Spotter, mobile radar tower, flare gun/firework launcher, blowtorch, *HVR*, i might be missing a couple of others but there absolutely are reasons to rebalance a weapon if it's too good when used by premades. 

That's odd because literally everyone would include me which funny enough I don't feel that way. There are also plenty of people i know who would very much disagree with that statement. Also the "op or unfair" sounds more on the level of a player skill issue more than anything. Its like people complaining that they're losing to an ntec while using an OCA. That is 100% the players fault not the weapons. Not to mention its the player using the weapon knows how to use it. Its not just strong because they're in a premade.  You can't just chalk everything up to "a premade is destroying me with x so it needs to be nerfed". Then every gun in the game will just be nerfed. People do put time and effort into learning the limits of weapons and that's why they accel and make them seem "broken". It has nothing to do with premades its just player skill as a whole. Hence the learning/skill curve in apb.

Edited February 4, 2021 by RespectThis

[claude 223]

4 minutes ago, RespectThis said:

That's odd because literally everyone would include me which funny enough I don't feel that way. There are also plenty of people i know who would very much disagree with that statement. Also the "op or unfair" sounds more on the level of a player skill issue more than anything. Its like people complaining that they're losing to an ntec while using an OCA. That is 100% the players fault not the weapons. Not to mention its the player using the weapon knows how to use it. Its not just strong because they're in a premade.  You can't just chalk everything up to "a premade is destroying me with x so it needs to be nerfed". Then every gun in the game will just be nerfed. People do put time and effort into learning the limits of weapons and that's why they accel and make them seem "broken". It has nothing to do with premades its just player skill as a whole. Hence the learning/skill curve in apb.

listen bro if u dont see anything wrong with a premade of 3/4 being able to kill you as fast as literally .10 seconds because u get HVR'd and ntec'd at the same time, making pushes impossible on waterfront (because waterfront is a dogshit map with awful spawns that leave you vulnerable at extremely long ranges the moment you touch your feet on the ground) then ig we can agree to disagree

 

I actually like playing the video game, I dont wanna spawn and get instakilled because Silver Jimmy left clicked my ballsack with his HVR while Gold Terry Jon left clicked me with an ntec 1 or 2 times. i cant even react, i cant even compete bro.

Edited February 4, 2021 by claude

[BlatMan 711]

You're both arguing that the N-HVR 762 deals too much damage correct?

[RespectThis 121]

16 minutes ago, claude said:

listen bro if u dont see anything wrong with a premade of 3/4 being able to kill you as fast as literally .10 seconds because u get HVR'd and ntec'd at the same time, making pushes impossible on waterfront (because waterfront is a dogshit map with awful spawns that leave you vulnerable at extremely far ranges the moment you touch your feet on the ground) then ig we can agree to disagree

 

I actually like playing the video game, I dont wanna spawn and get instakilled because Silver Jimmy left clicked my ballsack while Gold Terry Jon left clicked me with an ntec 1 or 2 times. i cant even react, i cant even compete bro.

Can't say I can relate to your experience of being killed in .10 secs as I don't have that occur to me ever. Regardless though premades are premades. They play together and work well together. You shouldn't be punishing them for that. Second don't blame being killed in .10secs on the hvr and ntec because waterfront is crap. Third I also enjoy playing video games. Its the reason i'm on this forum right now because I'd LIKE the game to be where it use to be when it was actually enjoyable and not resident sleeper like it is now. Lastly if you're getting outmatched by Silver Jimmy I don't know what to tell you. Ya I get it being HVR'd isn't fun. Hence why I said they should nerf the base damage as its ONLY nerf (as i've said a few times now). At the same time though there are most definitely ways to NOT get destroyed by Silver Jimmy who probably is just sitting in the middle of the road *cough* use a vehicle *cough*. Just saying if you enjoy playing video games you shouldn't like where the HVR is mechanically. Because its not a fun concept at all. As I said I'v disliked the HVR since I started playing back in 2011. But no gun deserves that kind of mechanic in a arcade shooter like APB. 

8 minutes ago, SquirrelFace said:

You're both arguing that the N-HVR 762 deals too much damage correct?

Incorrect. I'm saying it does to little damage with its base nerf in addition to its bloom scaling. Relative to the Scout.

Edited February 4, 2021 by RespectThis

[claude 223]

1 minute ago, RespectThis said:

Can't say I can relate to your experience of being killed in .10 secs as I don't have that occur to me ever. Regardless though premades are premades. They play together and work well together. You shouldn't be punishing them for that. Second don't blame being killed in .10secs on the hvr and ntec because waterfront is crap. Third I also enjoy playing video games. Its the reason i'm on this forum right now because I'd LIKE the game to be where it use to be when it was actually enjoyable and not resident sleeper like it is now. Lastly if you're getting outmatched by Silver Jimmy I don't know what to tell you. Ya I get it being HVR'd isn't fun. Hence why I said they should nerf the base damage as its ONLY nerf (as i've said a few times now). At the same time though there are most definitely ways to NOT get destroyed by Silver Jimmy who probably is just sitting in the middle of the road *cough* use a vehicle *cough*. Just saying if you enjoy playing video games you shouldn't like where the HVR  mechanically. Because its not a fun concept at all. As I said I dislike the HVR since I started playing back in 2011. But no gun deserves that kind of mechanic in a arcade shooter like APB. 

Silver Jimmy can be a Green Gary, it doesnt fking matter bro, 1 shot and all ur health is dead, and all the player needs is a monitor, a PC, a mouse, and 2 braincells. 1 braincell for holding down right click to aim, and 1 braincell to left click the guy they wish to obliterate. after they hit that guy once, literally any other specimen within a 100m radius can finish them off faster than they could blink.

 

you understand that there are weapons in the game that regardless of skill disparity, are extremely strong because they require no skill to use, right? ATAC, Euryale, HVR, OPGL, you could suck at the game but as long as you use these weapons, they can carry you. (hardly ever see the ATAC anymore but its still aids)

 

if im 2v2ing, both teams have 1 silver, both silvers are genuinely new players or just suck at the game, whichever team has the silver using the HVR will have a way higher chance of winning. why? because MY silver (the beta male STAR 556 silver) has to hit MORE THAN ONE SHOT to be of any use to me in 2v2s, but if the other dudes MEGA CHAD BASED HVR SILVER lands ONE shot on me, im FUCKED. sure, if im on defense, the bloom meme they added to the HVR might make it harder for the silver to hit me because he has to do two things at once (push the objective AND hit a shot) with the HVR, but it doesnt matter, because HVR is so OP on defense in a game where every mission is inherently defender-sided, it shouldnt even be in the game.  this is one of the reasons why the JG  and shotguns in general are so powerful.

 

so, here are some solutions:

 

rebalance the maps (ESPECIALLY waterfront) by adding more entrances to insanely OP high-ground areas, and find a way to make spawns less shitty

 

find a way to make attacking way less shitty without making shit like Spotter and Flare Guns the only solutions

 

remove the HVR or nerf it harder. revert all the other weapon changes. nerf percs, nerf OPGL, nerf AMG.

[Hexerin 1140]

Replace all instances of HVR 762 with HVR 243, including any open slots and/or preset mods, then delete HVR 762 from the game. The HVR 762 can never be balanced with the way the game is designed now (low health / fast TTK), and anyone who tries to say otherwise is either completely ignorant or has an ulterior motive for keeping it around.

[RespectThis 121]

35 minutes ago, claude said:

Silver Jimmy can be a Green Gary, it doesnt fking matter bro, 1 shot and all ur health is dead, and all the player needs is a monitor, a PC, a mouse, and 2 braincells. 1 braincell for holding down right click to aim, and 1 braincell to left click the guy they wish to obliterate. after they hit that guy once, literally any other specimen within a 100m radius can finish them off faster than they could blink.

 

you understand that there are weapons in the game that regardless of skill disparity, are extremely strong because they require no skill to use, right? ATAC, Euryale, HVR, OPGL, you could suck at the game but as long as you use these weapons, they can carry you. (hardly ever see the ATAC anymore but its still aids)

 

if im 2v2ing, both teams have 1 silver, both silvers are genuinely new players or just suck at the game, whichever team has the silver using the HVR will have a way higher chance of winning. why? because MY silver (the beta male STAR 556 silver) has to hit MORE THAN ONE SHOT to be of any use to me in 2v2s, but if the other dudes MEGA CHAD BASED HVR SILVER lands ONE shot on me, im FUCKED. sure, if im on defense, the bloom meme they added to the HVR might make it harder for the silver to hit me because he has to do two things at once (push the objective AND hit a shot) with the HVR, but it doesnt matter, because HVR is so OP on defense in a game where every mission is inherently defender-sided, it shouldnt even be in the game.  this is one of the reasons why the JG  and shotguns in general are so powerful.

 

so, here are some solutions:

 

rebalance the maps (ESPECIALLY waterfront) by adding more entrances to insanely OP high-ground areas, and find a way to make spawns less shitty

 

find a way to make attacking way less shitty without making shit like Spotter and Flare Guns the only solutions

 

remove the HVR or nerf it harder. revert all the other weapon changes. nerf percs, nerf OPGL, nerf AMG.

If green Gary is causing an issue then its really a player skill issue. There are no weapons in the game that carry you if you suck. A GOOD player can beat these bad players using these "no skill carry guns" that you've listed. Silver players with ATACs? beaten time and time again by myself and mates I play with. OPGL? Slap on Flak Jacket problem solved. Ok so because a high caliber rifle hits harder in one shot than the star means its broken? Let alone they're both NEW players they aren't going to understand the tactics or ways to counter it. Players like yourself should have the experience to know how to play around HVRs. You shouldn't use new players as an example.

 

You solutions for rebalancing have no relevance to the HVR except for the last one. Waterfront? Its the map not the gun. Being on offense and the only solutions being flare gun/spotter? You aren't required to run that ever. That's usually why when you play you flank spots. Not to mention the multiple years flare gun and spotter didn't exist... lol. Nerf the HVR harder? This is the exact opposite direction this game needs to be going. You're just going to nerf it till its nothing then what? We nerf the scout into the ground because its to broken? Then the DMR next? Sounds like you're just super upset about the HVR as a whole leading to a bias opinion on it. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by RespectThis

[claude 223]

4 minutes ago, RespectThis said:

There are no weapons in the game that carry you if you suck. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, RespectThis said:

OPGL? Slap on Flak Jacket problem solved.

 

7 minutes ago, RespectThis said:

Ok so because a high caliber rifle hits harder in one shot than the star means its broken?

(disingenuous framing... but the point was that the silver with an HVR only needs to hit a single shot to deal a massive amount of damage while the other silver with the STAR needs to hit multiple shots to make any meaningful impact in the fight)

8 minutes ago, RespectThis said:

Players like yourself should have the experience to know how to play around HVRs. You shouldn't use new players as an example.

 

9 minutes ago, RespectThis said:

You solutions for rebalancing have no relevance to the HVR except for the last one. Waterfront? Its the map not the gun.

when the gun is extremely OP in nearly every spot on the only other map in the entire game, I feel like it's safe to say that the HVR is too powerful and should be nerfed now because the chances of Waterfront getting a rework before the HVR could get another nerf are slim to none, because they have to finish the engine update in order to do any map-related balance.

12 minutes ago, RespectThis said:

Being on offense and the only solutions being flare gun/spotter? You aren't required to run that ever.

you arent, but they grant you insane utility on offense, and these are the only two things that can drastically improve your offensive capabilities. you could throw the OPGL in this list, too.
 

 

14 minutes ago, RespectThis said:

That's usually why when you play you flak spots.

do people actually run flak now? i cant imagine running flak in a game where nades and explosives are just way too good, you literally give up one nade to get a little protection from them. guess what, the dude double nading you while you have flak? you can only nade him once? you're losing that fight. if they lose that fight, they suck.

16 minutes ago, RespectThis said:

This is the exact opposite direction this game needs to be going.

we just disagree. different visions ig

17 minutes ago, RespectThis said:

You're just going to nerf it till its nothing then what? We nerf the scout into the ground because its to broken? Then the DMR next?

Scout changes should be reverted. the clotting meta must be addressed. I wouldnt mind nerfing the DMR if waterfront continues to be as bad as it is, a couple years from now. I dont think it needs a nerf now, but if people wanted one in the future after the HVR problem gets fixed, then I'd understand why, and would be open to it.

19 minutes ago, RespectThis said:

Sounds like you're just super upset about the HVR as a whole. 

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[UwUMaster666 9]

8 hours ago, RespectThis said:

I mean the UwU guy you quoted said the Aces Rifle needs to be nerfed. Which by your statement means he should be ignored since it seems absurd to do such a change/say said statement. Which is pretty crazy considering its killing power is pretty bad to be honest. 14stk with a mag size of 35. While it is 2 kills in the mag the chances of you landing 14 perfect shots 2 times is very very unlikely. Also saying the Hvr needs a buff or the fbw is op isn't something to just ignore.  As it is right now the HVR should be buffed by having its damage based on accuracy reverted. Its received multiple damage nerfs in multiple ways. While the scout has been buffed multiple times. Thus having the gap between the HVR and the Scout has become minimal. Where as before you could have a high damage sniper with limited mobility. Then a medium damage sniper with high mobility that didn't require you to swap to your pistol. Point is don't just ignore something because YOU think its bad. Emilika is right in saying it does need a buff. More so a revert but its still a buff none the less. All it ever needed was its based damage reduced slightly.

I rated the ACES Rifle based on it's overall abilites, not the 1v2 ability. 1v2 in high skill is unlikely anyway, so I described it as I personally experienced it, if you are one of the few players who has truly aim in this game, you can literally beam people with it in range. The high firerate makes a ttk easier. I don't care about having a mag size of 35, if you want, buff it, but one of it's abilities in CQC or range should be nerfed since like I already said, it's a SMG rifle together. 

[RespectThis 121]

3 hours ago, claude said:

when the gun is extremely OP in nearly every spot on the only other map in the entire game, I feel like it's safe to say that the HVR is too powerful and should be nerfed now because the chances of Waterfront getting a rework before the HVR could get another nerf are slim to none, because they have to finish the engine update in order to do any map-related balance.

you arent, but they grant you insane utility on offense, and these are the only two things that can drastically improve your offensive capabilities. you could throw the OPGL in this list, too.

Honestly I do think you're over exaggerating how OP it is in Waterfront. Ya its a very open map. But other weapons still very much hold their own against the HVR in this map. Again its more of a map thing than a weapon thing. 

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do people actually run flak now? i cant imagine running flak in a game where nades and explosives are just way too good, you literally give up one nade to get a little protection from them. guess what, the dude double nading you while you have flak? you can only nade him once? you're losing that fight. if they lose that fight, they suck.

I edited my post to flank which is what I meant but you quoted me before I fixed it. Anyway, In regards to Flak Jacket, a lot of people do actually use it. I myself use it all the time when it comes to explosives. Even outside of that. Med spray its pretty strong and flak does help a lot against people who pre nade. In regards to having less nades I don't really find it a problem. If you're finding yourself struggling to push with less nades you just need to use flak more often to get a feel for it. Ya its a bit odd at first but you adapt to it pretty quick.

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we just disagree. different visions ig

I mean ya. I don't have a problem with that. We wouldn't be having this discussion if we didn't .

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Scout changes should be reverted. the clotting meta must be addressed. I wouldnt mind nerfing the DMR if waterfront continues to be as bad as it is, a couple years from now. I dont think it needs a nerf now, but if people wanted one in the future after the HVR problem gets fixed, then I'd understand why, and would be open to it.

Yes I do think the scout should be changed back. This is where my biggest problem with your ideology lies. You want to nerf the HVR so much that the DMR becomes the next one. Then you want to nerf that. That is just killing the game because you are just killing one gun after another. That doesn't actually do anything positive or healthy for the game. There will always been a meta weapon. Which is why when the Holy Trinity was a thing the game was at its best. Because there were always 3/4 (since oca/pmg) weapons you could always use without problem. Then all the other ones were still good but not the meta.

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I do feel like it clouds your judgement a bit in regards to balancing. In regards to you being upset about the hvr.

 

 

26 minutes ago, UwUMaster666 said:

I rated the ACES Rifle based on it's overall abilites, not the 1v2 ability. 1v2 in high skill is unlikely anyway, so I described it as I personally experienced it, if you are one of the few players who has truly aim in this game, you can literally beam people with it in range. The high firerate makes a ttk easier. I don't care about having a mag size of 35, if you want, buff it, but one of it's abilities in CQC or range should be nerfed since like I already said, it's a SMG rifle together. 

Im not rating it off 1v2 either. I'm stating that it has 2 kills in the mag. Which is a factor in what makes guns good. Its what makes the FBW strong is because it has 15 in the mag and allows for 2 kills per mag. As for the Aces Rifle its not that strong at range. At 35-40m its ok if you tap fire it. But it is classified as an assault rifle. Its how I finished my last 200 kills for my Rifleman 16 role. I'm not saying its needs a buff either. It sure doesn't need a nerf though. It loses to the base smgs and is outclassed by assault rifles. Its very far from being in need of any changes.

Edited February 4, 2021 by RespectThis