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Posted (edited)

The role progression and the grind regarding it is completely okay as it is.

Mattscott mentioned that he wants to rework the role grinding to be more applying to new comers, it sounds like it will be less of a grind/more easy to complete everything,

This decision will not be the smartest thing to do because there are players that already completed all the roles years ago, and if you change the grind on those it wont be fair to those who already spent
their time completing everything or getting to rank 15 on the weapon roles which is fairly easy considering going from rank 15 to 16 isn't really worth the grind judging its only a chrome skin and a unique 3 slotted weapon, i fear this will make the base population eg. (the old accomplished player) just quit what is already a crumbling game. 

 

EDIT: The dislikes are probably from people who CANT complete all the roles lol so they want a discount or something.. Because i have a good point here.

Edited by ReaperTheButcher
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Posted (edited)
Quote

New player retention and progression/role balancing are officially added to the roadmap for after the engine upgrade launches. I see it as a major area where we can help make the game generally more fun for everyone.

Quote

This has recently been escalated to a high priority on the post engine upgrade road map. I think the existing progression and amount of grind doesn't fit with the kind of game I want APB to be. We need to level the playing field more between the accessibility of items between new and old players.

 

Are these the quotes you are referring to? I can't say I disagree with Matt, new players to APB face a number of considerable hurdles towards being able to compete with long standing players, and the progression system is definitely one of them. When we think that some very useful mods such as High Burn Point Fuel or Valzipram are locked away at a fairly high level requirement (Especially for non premium players), there certainly is a case to be made that new players are at a significant disadvantage. This is especially true for weapon mods for example, where if you are a player with no friends in the game, you would need to either grind out the necessary role to then have the chance to buy the modification, or purchase it for an inflated price on the marketplace (Which may not be obvious to do in the first place).

 

I believe Matt's thinking is probably more in line with the changes made to the Joker Store, which was essentially making a wider variety of weapons more accessible to more players. APB has always had an uncomfortable design when it comes to player progression as a result of its unfocused development. On the one hand, we like to believe that an experienced player on a new character would still be able to fight just as effectively, but on the other they also have the benefit of being able to send mods over from other characters and have the knowledge that shiny gold guns don't make you win. If we're not going to restrict matchmaking by character level, then we need to ensure that more players are on the same playing field. This is without going into the mess of the unfinished merging of player characters. By this I mean almost 10 years ago now they decided to make threat account bound instead of character bound, yet still we have very few account bound facilities (Such as symbol storage or shared bank accounts).

 

I don't believe the kill requirements for the Chrome skin are going anywhere, but it's important for more experienced players of APB to not dismiss these ideas. You may say the game will crumble by changing progression, but how can we expect APB to survive without new players?

Edited by Lord Cashpoint
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Posted (edited)

it takes 50,000 kills to get 3 slot of assault rifle/rifle/smg/shotgun/machinegun/sniper

 

vs

 

buy from armas in 1 minute

 

so much fun !!

oh and it costs a shit ton of APB cash$ to purchase 3 slot guns for 10 days. (premium$ fixes that though)

Edited by FakeBungo
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Posted (edited)

 

35 minutes ago, Lord Cashpoint said:

 

Are these the quotes you are referring to? I can't say I disagree with Matt, new players to APB face a number of considerable hurdles towards being able to compete with long standing players, and the progression system is definitely one of them. When we think that some very useful mods such as High Burn Point Fuel or Valzipram are locked away at a fairly high level requirement (Especially for non premium players), there certainly is a case to be made that new players are at a significant disadvantage. This is especially true for weapon mods for example, where if you are a player with no friends in the game, you would need to either grind out the necessary role to then have the chance to buy the modification, or purchase it for an inflated price on the marketplace (Which may not be obvious to do in the first place).

 

I believe Matt's thinking is probably more in line with the changes made to the Joker Store, which was essentially making a wider variety of weapons more accessible to more players. APB has always had an uncomfortable design when it comes to player progression as a result of its unfocused development. On the one hand, we like to believe that an experienced player on a new character would still be able to fight just as effectively, but on the other they also have the benefit of being able to send mods over from other characters and have the knowledge that shiny gold guns don't make you win. If we're not going to restrict matchmaking by character level, then we need to ensure that more players are on the same playing field. This is without going into the mess of the unfinished merging of player characters. By this I mean almost 10 years ago now they decided to make threat account bound instead of character bound, yet still we have very few account bound facilities (Such as symbol storage or shared bank accounts).

 

I don't believe the kill requirements for the Chrome skin are going anywhere, but it's important for more experienced players of APB to not dismiss these ideas. You may say the game will crumble by changing progression, but how can we expect APB to survive without new players?

I totally agree, there are too many modifications and advanced vehicles that are available to high rank characters, well this is not the problem here, the problem is that these high ranking golds are going against maybe lets say less experienced players with lower ranking characters eg. (matchmaking's fault).
i do feel if they fix matchmaking somehow it will be the most beneficial thing right now. 

8 minutes ago, FakeBungo said:

it takes 50,000 kills to get 3 slot of assault rifle/rifle/smg/shotgun/machinegun/sniper

 

vs

 

buy from armas in 1 minute

 

so much fun !!

If it was easier to get those 3 slotted weapons, no one would buy these from armas meaning the company makes less money.

Edited by ReaperTheButcher
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3 minutes ago, ReaperTheButcher said:

 

I totally agree, there are too many modifications and advanced vehicles that are available to high rank characters, well this is not the problem here, the problem is that these high ranking golds are going against maybe lets say less experienced players with lower ranking characters eg. (matchmaking's fault).
i do feel if they fix matchmaking somehow it will be the most beneficial thing right now. 

If it was easier to get those 3 slotted weapons, no one would buy these from armas meaning the company makes less money.

armas shouldnt even exist

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Just now, FakeBungo said:

armas shouldnt even exist

Then how a Free 2 play game will make their living ? when the game was purchasable from RTW they made money by selling copies now its ingame purchases via armas.

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1 minute ago, ReaperTheButcher said:

Then how a Free 2 play game will make their living ? when the game was purchasable from RTW they made money by selling copies now its ingame purchases via armas.

everything in armas should be only cosmetic and they should remove premium apb$ and standing bonuses

 

buying guns for $30 makes me cringe

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, FakeBungo said:

everything in armas should be only cosmetic and they should remove premium apb$ and standing bonuses

 

buying guns for $30 makes me cringe

This is what World of Warcraft did, but APB doesn't have enough players to make enough money from selling cosmetics and subscription of premium only.

Edited by ReaperTheButcher

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, ReaperTheButcher said:

This is what World of Warcraft did, but APB doesn't have enough players to make enough money from selling cosmetics and subscription of premium only.

they should hire somebody who creates a new cosmetic item/outfit for purchase every week

and not those crappy joker store ones which are just regular clothes, i mean custom models and new clothing entirely (car kits, etc)

Edited by FakeBungo
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Posted (edited)
On 6/4/2020 at 12:36 PM, FakeBungo said:

oh and it costs a shit ton of APB cash$ to purchase 3 slot guns for 10 days. (premium$ fixes that though)

15 matches weekly (WITHOUT premium) and you can maintain lease. If you don't play that much weekly I doubt this gun would be even considerable gamechanger in most of this matches.

Can we quit this shitty argument? - Every time it ends with how APB is "P2W" and I though we are behind that ever since changes to Joker Distribution.

On 6/4/2020 at 12:46 PM, FakeBungo said:

armas shouldnt even exist

Peak comedy. You do realize developers are company and need to generate some income from game to find justifcation for taking costs of it maintenance?

You would prefer subscription like in WoW?... Of course not, you wouldn't even play then.

On 6/4/2020 at 12:51 PM, FakeBungo said:

everything in armas should be only cosmetic and they should remove premium apb$ and standing bonuses

60% of ARMAs guns are reskins. So yeah, they are cosmetic. With few expections most of unique guns (one which aren't reskins and aren't avaliable otherwise) were moved also onto Joker Distribution.

And removing premium bonuses would kill it already low attraction (all this bonuses don't really influence your fucking gameplay long-term (grind is as huge as without premium in the end) so quit moaning about it, jeez).

On 6/4/2020 at 12:51 PM, FakeBungo said:

buying guns for $30 makes me cringe

In certain games I saw cosmetics for that price. And guns being locked in lootboxes. For that price.

On 6/4/2020 at 1:01 PM, FakeBungo said:

they should hire somebody who creates a new cosmetic item/outfit for purchase every week

Oh boy. With current engine it would be lovely. I already lost 50 fps from all customizations loading every time I enter game. They should finish EU first, THEN add attachments to it...

On 6/4/2020 at 1:01 PM, FakeBungo said:

and not those crappy joker store ones which are just regular clothes, i mean custom models and new clothing entirely (car kits, etc)

???

Ahhh, you talking about this designer clothing.

Nobody forces you to buy that. It's their shop.

 

On 6/4/2020 at 11:41 AM, ReaperTheButcher said:

The role progression and the grind regarding it is completely okay as it is.

Agreed. Level 15 isn't hard to get. Mods for weapons are widely sold on marketplace by other players (despite it being "dead game"). Only problem is with 3-slot weapons locked behind role progress and whole phenomen of mod-locked weapons but that's completely different subject.

On 6/4/2020 at 11:41 AM, ReaperTheButcher said:

Mattscott mentioned that he wants to rework the role grinding to be more applying to new comers, it sounds like it will be less of a grind/more easy to complete everything,

3 months ago I just finished my grind. If they really want to rework grind in my opinion all weapon unlocks should be moved to lower levels of weapon roles.

I would take it as offense if they suddenly would lower grind after I litteraly 3 months ago completed all weapon roles.

On 6/4/2020 at 11:41 AM, ReaperTheButcher said:

This decision will not be the smartest thing to do because there are players that already completed all the roles years ago, and if you change the grind on those it wont be fair to those who already spent
their time completing everything or getting to rank 15 on the weapon roles which is fairly easy considering going from rank 15 to 16 isn't really worth the grind judging its only a chrome skin and a unique 3 slotted weapon, i fear this will make the base population eg. (the old accomplished player) just quit what is already a crumbling game. 

Not quit but I would had even bigger reason to be moaning fuzzy bunny about every thing.

>Make everything extremely easy for everyone else to reduce impact of my grind and shit on years spent just to complete roles - instead of fixing real problems with gun unlocks.

>All while gameplay still suffers because newbies still face dethreaters while lacking proper tutorial, proper matchmaking and are not defended against abuse (I understand one match with golds in bronze taking current situation but if getting several matches in row with the same dethreating team is normal to you, you must be fucked in mind).

>All while levels of contacts are still ultra grindy as fuck.

Edited by Mitne

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Mitne said:

15 matches weekly (WITHOUT premium) and you can maintain lease. If you don't play that much weekly I doubt this gun would be even considerable gamechanger in most of this matches.

Can we quit this shitty argument? - Every time it ends with how APB is "P2W" and I though we are behind that ever since changes to Joker Distribution.

Peak comedy. You do realize developers are company and need to generate some income from game to find justifcation for taking costs of it maintenance?

You would prefer subscription like in WoW?... Of course not, you wouldn't even play then.

60% of ARMAs guns are reskins. So yeah, they are cosmetic. With few expections most of unique guns (one which aren't reskins and aren't avaliable otherwise) were moved also onto Joker Distribution.

And removing premium bonuses would kill it already low attraction (all this bonuses don't really influence your fucking gameplay long-term (grind is as huge as without premium in the end) so quit moaning about it, jeez).

In certain games I saw cosmetics for that price. And guns being locked in lootboxes. For that price.

Oh boy. With current engine it would be lovely. I already lost 50 fps from all customizations loading every time I enter game. They should finish EU first, THEN add attachments to it...

???

Ahhh, you talking about this designer clothing.

Nobody forces you to buy that. It's their shop.

 

Agreed. Level 15 isn't hard to get. Mods for weapons are widely sold on marketplace by other players (despite it being "dead game"). Only problem is with 3-slot weapons locked behind role progress and whole phenomen of mod-locked weapons but that's completely different subject.

3 months ago I just finished my grind. If they really want to rework grind in my opinion all weapon unlocks should be moved to lower levels of weapon roles.

I would take it as offense if they suddenly would lower grind after I litteraly 3 months ago completed all weapon roles.

Not quit but I would had even bigger reason to be moaning fuzzy bunny about every thing.

>Make everything extremely easy for everyone else to reduce impact of my grind and shit on years spent just to complete roles - instead of fixing real problems with gun unlocks.

>All while gameplay still suffers because newbies still face dethreaters while lacking proper tutorial, proper matchmaking and are not defended against abuse (I understand one match with golds in bronze taking current situation but if getting several matches in row with the same dethreating team is normal to you, you must be fucked in mind).

>All while levels of contacts are still ultra grindy as fuck.

Yes ranking up the contacts might feel extra grindy to people without premium subscription, to the dethreating problem, this was dealt with before when G1 decided that people who become gold in a silver/bronze district will have certain penalty like less money and standing from completing missions, and golds only could enter gold and ect.. it was good for the new commers untill it was cancled.

Edited by ReaperTheButcher
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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, ReaperTheButcher said:

Yes ranking up the contacts might feel extra grindy to people without premium subscription, to the dethreating problem, this was dealt with before when G1 decided that people who become gold in a silver/bronze district will have certain penalty like less money and standing from completing missions, and golds only could enter gold and ect.. it was good for the new commers untill it was cancled.

I remember that crying.

"WHY WE HAVE TO PLAY GOLDS VS GOLDS" "WHAT IF I HAVE FRIENDS IN DIFFERENT THREAT"

In the end, this all was excuses.

Excuses to abuse system. If you really care about your friend you would play despite losses. Hell, you would even play in gold (punishment for playing in higher threat was though smart bad (this censorship works bad) - despite being symbolical). But they played because it was easy grind and G1 spotted that.

Edited by Mitne
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Posted (edited)

It might be a good idea to suggest this system to LO and see how it goes, what can go wrong when everything is literally wrong right now, untill the EU and their way of fixing matchmaking this might help.

Edited by ReaperTheButcher

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How about to make the roles progression account bounded? Pledge every char on account for chrome skin... pain.

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Mitne said:

I remember that crying.

"WHY WE HAVE TO PLAY GOLDS VS GOLDS" "WHAT IF I HAVE FRIENDS IN DIFFERENT THREAT"

In the end, this all was excuses.

Excuses to abuse system. If you really care about your friend you would play despite losses. Hell, you would even play in gold (punishment for playing in higher threat was though smart bad (this censorship works bad) - despite being symbolical). But they played because it was easy grind and G1 spotted that.

Most of my clan were silvers, it had 80 members with 20 active almost daily/weekend and the others played a few times a week/once a week. It litterally died to like 5 people on at any random time... tops. I played with all of them, and when gold lock occured I legit couldn't play with most, and because of how many cheaters, tryhards, exploiters, etc etc were in gold. No one but maybe 4 people wanted to play with me. You can say that "if they wanted to play they'd play with you. I mean, why would they if they legit only face the scummiest players in the district? People actually want to have fun with friends. Not get face stomped and go 0/13 while their buddy goes 12/10.

 

  Majority of the clan did end up all leaving within the 3 month span of gold lock as well. Not surprised though.

 

Threat seg was a terrible idea, because there are FAR better ideas to protect new players.

 

We can disagree on that, though i'm almost positive gold lock was the reason that half the g1 team disappeared after gold lock. Joker server in 3 months went from 800-1000 population - 300-500.

Can you imagine having to tell your boss/bosses boss "hey guys, we just lost half our playerbase in 3 months because of this idea". Within like a month or two after its reversion a bunch of GMs disappeared, and we got a new community manager. I certainly have reason to suspect it was because of Gold Lock's failure.

Edited by Noob_Guardian

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2 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Most of my clan were silvers, it had 80 members with 20 active almost daily/weekend and the others played a few times a week/once a week. It litterally died to like 5 people on at any random time... tops. I played with all of them, and when gold lock occured I legit couldn't play with most, and because of how many cheaters, tryhards, exploiters, etc etc were in gold. No one but maybe 4 people wanted to play with me. You can say that "if they wanted to play they'd play with you. I mean, why would they if they legit only face the scummiest players in the district? People actually want to have fun with friends. Not get face stomped and go 0/13 while their buddy goes 12/10.

I didn't said anything about threat lock if you would notice, which happened earlier. I talked about rewards reductions for being on wrong threat servers - something which in my opinion was proper way to punish dethreaters.

2 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Majority of the clan did end up all leaving within the 3 month span of gold lock as well. Not surprised though.

If that was reason for them leaving permantely, then they wouldn't hang around for long either.

2 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Threat seg was a terrible idea, because there are FAR better ideas to protect new players.

Rank segmentation. Also we see rank segmentation in all kind of shooters and in many of them it's succesful. Only this game got pathology that high rank gold can dethreat into green to stomp newbies and game sees it as alright.

 

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32 minutes ago, Mitne said:

I talked about rewards reductions for being on wrong threat servers - something which in my opinion was proper way to punish dethreaters.

the reward reduction mechanic was probably the single worst anti-dethreater solution we've had, other than not doing anything at all

 

 

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Posted (edited)

3-slot weapons need to become much much more accessible even on new characters. Having to grind roles to rank 15 on a single character (or grind 10k JT) for a single 3-slot weapon is insane and no one would bother to do that, who isn't commited enough to APB to spend some money on it regardless. On top of that, having to lease it every 10 days for 20k APB$ is even more insane for a newer player.

 

Also your argument is the same as what people were saying when they lowered ARMAS prices. I have 3 maxed PRIMARY weapon roles on my main by just playing tons of fight club and I still wouldn't mind if they reduced the grind significantly. New players that only get a STAR and an FBW and get devastated by players with fully modded weapons that they have to pay for or grind for a year to unlock would much rather go play a more balanced game. Even in games like R6S or Apex where you need to unlock characters its still a waaay shorter grind to be able to compete against everyone else. In APB not only do you need to grind all that weaponry but you also need to buy overpriced level 3 mods for each of them. It is so much effort for so little reward in the end due to how busted the game is in general.

 

I personally fully support the reduction of grind for 3-slot weapons of all kinds. It is necessary for APB to get at least some new players in. As a matter of fact, I wonder whether there should even be weapons that are less than 3-slot in the game. They could just give you 3-slots at like rank 5 and role progression beyond only awards cosmetic changes, so we get more weapon skins that are unique and require grinding, ones which you cannot buy anywhere, such as Chrome. That way, everyone can compete but fancier, more rare and unique cosmetics come at a grindy cost.

 

We need to look past our own ego's if this game is to go anywhere.

 

On top of this, all roles should be account wide. If I have chrome on my main, I should have it on all of my characters. Period.

Edited by Flaws
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I definitely agree that the grind some players put into the roles in their current state should be rewarded in a better way before they fix it for new comers.

But imo, I really see that as a personal challenge, so eitherway, I don't really care.

 

But yea, the point is also to make roles, and 3 slotted weapons more accessible to new players, roles in their current state are absolutely horrible and can result (if you care about finishing them) making you play fight club and 1 or 2 particular gun the whole time, which kinda breaks the fun. (because let's be honest maxing out a role on mission would take more than years)

 

Also, don't mind the dislikes, it happens frequently lol.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/4/2020 at 11:41 AM, ReaperTheButcher said:

from rank 15 to 16 isn't really worth the grind judging its only a chrome skin and a unique 3 slotted weapon

Exactly.Is absurd grind and locks all 3 main type of weapons(close,medium and long range)I play almost 9 years this game and dont have completed none of weapon role 16(never was my goal anyway)

Edited by TheMessiah

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On 6/4/2020 at 11:36 AM, FakeBungo said:

it takes 50,000 kills to get 3 slot of assault rifle/rifle/smg/shotgun/machinegun/sniper

What the fuck are you smoking?

 

It's about 15k roughly to get 15, and besides, you can get the Cops Bane NTEC in almost ZERO time.

 

Besides, people overstate how good slots are, after 2, the 3rd is mostly irrevelant.

 

 

I agree with Reaper anyway. The point is, easier progression means less incentive to keep playing.

 

It reminds me of the Cop rank. Back when only Enforcer could get Jericho (the good old days) and the ONLY way to get rid of your sirens was to get Cop 15 to unlock a discrete siren. It added some reason to grind, and serious prestige if you managed to get it. (LTL isn't that hard, but whatever, it's still no fun to play).

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Grinding to get max role for cop, nades, and pistols is fine, but grinding to unlock 3 slotted weapon specificaly which is necessary to have is almost inhumane torture. Imo 3 slotted lethal weapon unlocks should be set to rank 10

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Intake said:

What the fuck are you smoking?

 

It's about 15k roughly to get 15, and besides, you can get the Cops Bane NTEC in almost ZERO time.

 

Besides, people overstate how good slots are, after 2, the 3rd is mostly irrevelant.

 

 

I agree with Reaper anyway. The point is, easier progression means less incentive to keep playing.

 

It reminds me of the Cop rank. Back when only Enforcer could get Jericho (the good old days) and the ONLY way to get rid of your sirens was to get Cop 15 to unlock a discrete siren. It added some reason to grind, and serious prestige if you managed to get it. (LTL isn't that hard, but whatever, it's still no fun to play).

from 0 to 15 its 10k kills, from 15 to 16 is 10k kills, so total 20k kills with the weapon to finish the role, he said 50k kills its 5 weapon roles 10k kills each for rank 15 🙂

Edited by ReaperTheButcher
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11 minutes ago, ReaperTheButcher said:

from 0 to 15 its 10k kills, from 15 to 16 is 10k kills, so total 20k kills with the weapon to finish the role, he said 50k kills its 5 weapon roles 10k kills each for rank 15 🙂

Fair, honestly it's been so long since I played I've started to forget stuff lmao

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4 minutes ago, Intake said:

Fair, honestly it's been so long since I played I've started to forget stuff lmao

The last time i heard the sound of ranking up a role was back in 2015, and i dont have other characters and i still remember its 10k 🙂

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