The ATAC. Yay or nay?

[Noob_Guardian 418]

15 hours ago, RespectThis said:

Yes the bloom mechanic was the last breath from RP ~2yrs ago. 

Yes, however LO didn't touch "that" mechanic in the patch notes, they touched other things. That's the point i'm trying to make, LO likely will never revert it to pre G1 nerf stats, however if you can "prove" that their changes unnecessarily tampered with that bloom mechanic by changing the bloom, you may be able to get that aspect slightly reworked/buffed slightly.

 

As for that topic, most people agree in general that a number of the AR's do need buffed yes, however you also seem to discount that the forum population =/= game population. In general the forum population only accounts for ~10% of a game's population if that. Most casual players also don't tend to use forums so much.

 

They didn't make new weapons based on the NTEC because such weapons would almost have be ntec clones to compete and that's disregarding the other weapons in the same niche that you have to be careful about, so that the weapon you're buffing isn't going negate those weapons as well.

 

Instead they made the cobra- a carbine hybrid, the Misery (literal trash), FAR which is a star/ntec hybrid, and such. They didn't "witch hunt" after the ntec either. When almost every AR in the AR role got buffed in the last 4 years, and the NTEC still dominated and was used over any other AR in 90% of the games there's a reason for that. They already buffed the AR role, the NTEC was STILL "overused". You can say "well buff them more", but that disregards the fact that you just buffed an entire weapon role (aside from like atac and far) and still got nowhere, and would still have to be careful about those weapons negating other weapon roles.

[Abduct / Devote 69]

On 5/20/2020 at 8:47 PM, Fortune Runner said:

cqc up to 70 away n tec dominated , so yes it was far better.

Its why anyone who wanted to get the upperhand used it , and was known for it for an extremely long time. years. eons.

not a backhanded insult  it was just a jest loosen up a bit. I'm not that type of person.

 

 

 

13 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

you seem to be veering off too far. like i said ntec wasnt supposed to be able to dominate at cqc and was unbalanced from it so they changed it.

you wanting those features back that made the ntec a crutch only shows that you don't truly care about gun balancing.

So which is it? You seem to think it dominated all the way up to 70m from CQC range? If you look up what dominate means, it means to exercise control over, or have a commanding influence on. AKA it makes everything else inferior. No actual CQC weapon should struggle in CQC vs the ntec, not then not now. It didn't actually dominate that range, not in cqc or all over cqc > 70m range. Was it able to perform well in most of the ranges? Yeah, that's called being versatile. But dominate? That's not true at all. 

[RespectThis 121]

3 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Yes, however LO didn't touch "that" mechanic in the patch notes, they touched other things. That's the point i'm trying to make, LO likely will never revert it to pre G1 nerf stats, however if you can "prove" that their changes unnecessarily tampered with that bloom mechanic by changing the bloom, you may be able to get that aspect slightly reworked/buffed slightly.

 

As for that topic, most people agree in general that a number of the AR's do need buffed yes, however you also seem to discount that the forum population =/= game population. 

 

They didn't make new weapons based on the NTEC because such weapons would almost have be ntec clones to compete and that's disregarding the other weapons in the same niche that you have to be careful about, so that the weapon you're buffing isn't going negate those weapons as well.

 

Instead they made the cobra- a carbine hybrid, the Misery (literal trash), FAR which is a star/ntec hybrid, and such. They didn't "witch hunt" after the ntec either. When almost every AR in the AR role got buffed in the last 4 years, and the NTEC still dominated and was used over any other AR in 90% of the games there's a reason for that. They already buffed the AR role, the NTEC was STILL "overused". You can say "well buff them more", but that disregards the fact that you just buffed an entire weapon role (aside from like atac and far) and still got nowhere, and would still have to be careful about those weapons negating other weapon roles.

I'm aware LO didn't touch that mechanic. Its not a matter of what LO touched and didn't touch. Its the ntec in general not just what LO has done as i said in my previous post.

 

You're also assuming the same thing as Fortune Runner where i specifically said to him "...nor do i think most players are on the forums..". I dont think that forum pop equals online pop. It still represents how some players feel. 

 

They wouldn't have to be ntec clones just because the ntec would be used as the basis for the creation of them. You take part of the ntec and focus on said part. Or see where the ntec lacks and focus more on that i.e the atac. Ya im well aware you have to be careful of intersecting of niches and what not. Unfortunately for apbs case thats pretty difficult to do.

 

They (being LO and RP) definitely witch hunted the ntec. Just because something else got buffed doesn't negate that fact. As i also stated in my other post which is why Cookie and I both like the ntec is because it felt good to use. Why do you think people use things in games like that. Its like playing a specific character in league of legends or  smash bros. Because they're fun and enjoyable. Other ARs dont have that feeling. 

 

-Misery

-Adder

-Aces Rifle

-Star

-Far

-Issr-a

-Old Glory

 

All of these guns either feel clunky or they just potato. It doesn't stop me specifically from using them but others aren't going to want to access them. Not to mention you have to keep in mind alot of these weapons were locked behind a paywall for some time. Along with joker tickets not being as easily accessible after the nerf to them in FC and the weapons only being rentals. So that also accounts for alot of ntec usage. As i said if they make the guns more appealing and enjoyable to use then it would increase the AR pool. Now the ntec is hurting and people are revolving around pmg, shotguns, and percs.

Edited May 23, 2020 by RespectThis

[Xnetexe 78]

I like how the Raptor 45 is so garbage nobody even recognizes its existence despite it filling the same role as ATAC.

Heck, I bet if you slap RS3, MP3, and HB3 on an ATAC it'd still be better than the Raptor 45.

[CookiePuss 5379]

21 minutes ago, Xnetexe said:

I like how the Raptor 45 is so garbage nobody even recognizes its existence despite it filling the same role as ATAC.

Heck, I bet if you slap RS3, MP3, and HB3 on an ATAC it'd still be better than the Raptor 45.

I don't think we are playing the same game, my friend.

[Noob_Guardian 418]

1 hour ago, Xnetexe said:

I like how the Raptor 45 is so garbage nobody even recognizes its existence despite it filling the same role as ATAC.

Heck, I bet if you slap RS3, MP3, and HB3 on an ATAC it'd still be better than the Raptor 45.

I keep thinking it's a smg honestly, and i only have it through contact leases so i actually haven't bought one in ages cause i forget that I actually have one.

 

2 hours ago, RespectThis said:

I'm aware LO didn't touch that mechanic. Its not a matter of what LO touched and didn't touch. Its the ntec in general not just what LO has done as i said in my previous post.

 

You're also assuming the same thing as Fortune Runner where i specifically said to him "...nor do i think most players are on the forums..". I dont think that forum pop equals online pop. It still represents how some players feel. 

 

They wouldn't have to be ntec clones just because the ntec would be used as the basis for the creation of them. You take part of the ntec and focus on said part. Or see where the ntec lacks and focus more on that i.e the atac. Ya im well aware you have to be careful of intersecting of niches and what not. Unfortunately for apbs case thats pretty difficult to do.

 

They (being LO and RP) definitely witch hunted the ntec. Just because something else got buffed doesn't negate that fact. As i also stated in my other post which is why Cookie and I both like the ntec is because it felt good to use. Why do you think people use things in games like that. Its like playing a specific character in league of legends or  smash bros. Because they're fun and enjoyable. Other ARs dont have that feeling. 

 

-Misery

-Adder

-Aces Rifle

-Star

-Far

-Issr-a

-Old Glory

 

All of these guns either feel clunky or they just potato. It doesn't stop me specifically from using them but others aren't going to want to access them. Not to mention you have to keep in mind alot of these weapons were locked behind a paywall for some time. Along with joker tickets not being as easily accessible after the nerf to them in FC and the weapons only being rentals. So that also accounts for alot of ntec usage. As i said if they make the guns more appealing and enjoyable to use then it would increase the AR pool. Now the ntec is hurting and people are revolving around pmg, shotguns, and percs.

Oh I thought you were complaining that LO had changed that aspect further and I was like what?!

 

They do have feeling though, you might not like how they handle, how you have to change your play style to compensate for them. However they certainly DO have feeling. The difference between the NTEC and the other AR's (aside from ATAC and FAR) is that you have to put a LOT more effort into them and their playstyles for them to be anywhere near as effective as NTEC.  You liked the "ease" of the ntec and how it's easily manageable and extremely efficient, fine. But don't dismiss other weapons because they aren't as easy. Can some of them use further buffs. Absolutely! But does that mean that the ntec should have remained as is? No, not really. Every weapon you listed aside from FAR and "maybe" star has extremely clear downsides and niches. Downsides that the NTEC doesn't have. Sure you can simply "buff" the weapons further and never touch the ntec, but that would have been little different from trying to hide the elephant in the room. Not only that, but you can't have almost every weapon but one have clear downsides.

 

Edited May 23, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[Fortune Runner 796]

4 hours ago, Abduct / Devote said:

No actual CQC weapon should struggle in CQC vs the ntec, not then not now

which is why the ntec was changed. fact. now its more balanced as it should be.

[Abduct / Devote 69]

9 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

which is why the ntec was changed. fact. now its more balanced as it should be.

No, they don't struggle vs it, its the player not the guns. You just can't get it through your mind. FACT. I TYPED FACT MUST BE TRUE!

 

Sigh... It's really amazing how far you'll stretch what I'm saying to fit your agenda mentally, even if you're completely off the mark.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Abduct / Devote

[RespectThis 121]

17 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

They do have feeling though, you might not like how they handle, how you have to change your play style to compensate for them. However they certainly DO have feeling. The difference between the NTEC and the other AR's (aside from ATAC and FAR) is that you have to put a LOT more effort into them and their playstyles for them to be anywhere near as effective as NTEC.  You liked the "ease" of the ntec and how it's easily manageable and extremely efficient, fine. But don't dismiss other weapons because they aren't as easy. Can some of them use further buffs. Absolutely! But does that mean that the ntec should have remained as is? No, not really. Every weapon you listed aside from FAR and "maybe" star has extremely clear downsides and niches. Downsides that the NTEC doesn't have. Sure you can simply "buff" the weapons further and never touch the ntec, but that would have been little different from trying to hide the elephant in the room.

 

You really don't have to put ALOT more effort into them. I really think you're stretching the "effort" for them. Yes you have to play differently then the ntec obviously because they aren't the ntec. They aren't revolving around mid range combat. But they aren't so trash that you have to sweat bullets to make them work. The ntec isn't "easy" based on the vast majority of people who can't use it correctly in the past 9 years of my APB experience. Also im not dismissing other weapons because they aren't "easy". Don't assume thats the case. I even said that i still use them. I enjoy guns like the Aces Rifle and the Adder. The Aces Rifle being one of my favorite guns. These newer ARs just need more tuning. Ntec was fine before. Then new ARs are released in a disastrous state. Now the ntec is just a growing problem when it wasn't before.

[Noob_Guardian 418]

43 minutes ago, Abduct / Devote said:

No, they don't struggle vs it, its the player not the guns. You just can't get it through your mind. FACT. I TYPED FACT MUST BE TRUE!

 

Sigh... It's really amazing how far you'll stretch what I'm saying to fit your agenda mentally, even if you're completely off the mark.

To be fair it also depends on which iteration of NTEC you both are talking about. The original NTEC he'd be right about, G1's first nerfed NTEC was a wee bit more balanced than the original with the hb nerf, however LO clearly nerfed it in CQC for some reason with jumpshooting and spray accuracy being drastically nerfed. They clearly have all the data they needed to nerf it, and SPCT AND the game population were open to testing and pretty much, "picked" which nerf they wanted.

[Abduct / Devote 69]

2 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

To be fair it also depends on which iteration of NTEC you both are talking about. The original NTEC he'd be right about, G1's first nerfed NTEC was a wee bit more balanced than the original with the hb nerf, however LO clearly nerfed it in CQC for some reason with jumpshooting and spray accuracy being drastically nerfed. They clearly have all the data they needed to nerf it, and SPCT AND the game population were open to testing and pretty much, "picked" which nerf they wanted.

The iteration after the damage to hb2 nerf...? I figured that's what we were talking about.

[Noob_Guardian 418]

6 minutes ago, RespectThis said:

You really don't have to put ALOT more effort into them. I really think you're stretching the "effort" for them. Yes you have to play differently then the ntec obviously because they aren't the ntec. They aren't revolving around mid range combat. But they aren't so trash that you have to sweat bullets to make them work. The ntec isn't "easy" based on the vast majority of people who can't use it correctly in the past 9 years of my APB experience. Also im not dismissing other weapons because they aren't "easy". Don't assume thats the case. I even said that i still use them. I enjoy guns like the Aces Rifle and the Adder. The Aces Rifle being one of my favorite guns. These newer ARs just need more tuning. Ntec was fine before. Then new ARs are released in a disastrous state. Now the ntec is just a growing problem when it wasn't before.

I mean, before their buffs you had to use a lot of effort to make the cobra or misery at all effective. Their buffs helped that but they still aren't quite there... well maybe the cobra is pretty close to where it should be.

 

I think you forget that the vast majority of players also play differently than you or I or abduct or anyone else that's been around and active for 5+ years. What "vets" like us view as normal or best weapon usage, isn't often the same has how other players use it, primarily because they've never been helped to learn it know its ranges and such. I've helped a number of players learn how to use the NTEC and other weapons, and afterwords in a matter of a few matches they were doing much better with it. Being handed a weapon ingame and having no clue what you're doing with it, doesn't mean it's not an easy gun. If you have an inking of how to operate it, it becomes rather easy to use, well not anymore at least, but before LO's changes I'd of said that.

 

Even using the ATAC optimally doesn't mean literally spraying with it at all times, it may be "easy" in the sense of just aim and spray like the OCA, but even then, if that's all you do, you end up losing out a lot of the time.

 

I do agree some of the newer weapons and ARs can still use more tuning, though.

[RespectThis 121]

2 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

I mean, before their buffs you had to use a lot of effort to make the cobra or misery at all effective. Their buffs helped that but they still aren't quite there... well maybe the cobra is pretty close to where it should be.

 

I think you forget that the vast majority of players also play differently than you or I or abduct or anyone else that's been around and active for 5+ years. What "vets" like us view as normal or best weapon usage, isn't often the same has how other players use it, primarily because they've never been helped to learn it know its ranges and such. I've helped a number of players learn how to use the NTEC and other weapons, and afterwords in a matter of a few matches they were doing much better with it. Being handed a weapon ingame and having no clue what you're doing with it, doesn't mean it's not an easy gun. If you have an inking of how to operate it, it becomes rather easy to use, well not anymore at least, but before LO's changes I'd of said that.

 

Even using the ATAC optimally doesn't mean literally spraying with it at all times, it may be "easy" in the sense of just aim and spray like the OCA, but even then, if that's all you do, you end up losing out a lot of the time.

 

I do agree some of the newer weapons and ARs can still use more tuning, though.

Im talking about after the AR buffs not before because those are current.

 

Its not really the responsibility of the vets to teach new players how to play the game. Ya sure i dont mind helping them but its not a requirement. Even before any ntec change (hb2 one) players might have knowledge on how to use it and were still mediocre at best. Hence why people are gold, silver, etc. Not that rank really means something but you get my point. When i first started i never used the ntec. I only started using it after maining the obeya for a good chuck of obt. I wasn't that great with the ntec when i first started. But i learned from facing people. Also the reason i started using CJ3 on my ntec is because of Blackout (an older player). Half of apb is learning these things. Plus when i first grasped the understanding on how to use the gun i put it to practiced and found the most optimal way to use it. But to master it at the levels that people complain about isn't just a one day thing. To be honest at the end of the day what keeps APB afloat in my opinion is the vets. Not the newbies. 

 

Yes you can spray the atac but you get more value out of tap firing. Same goes for the Aces Rifle. you can spray it but it excels in tap-firing.

[Flaws 1033]

8 hours ago, Abduct / Devote said:

 

So which is it? You seem to think it dominated all the way up to 70m from CQC range? If you look up what dominate means, it means to exercise control over, or have a commanding influence on. AKA it makes everything else inferior. No actual CQC weapon should struggle in CQC vs the ntec, not then not now. It didn't actually dominate that range, not in cqc or all over cqc > 70m range. Was it able to perform well in most of the ranges? Yeah, that's called being versatile. But dominate? That's not true at all. 

I don't think I've ever used up my entire reactions quota for a day to upvote multiple posts by the exact same person on the forums. Finally someone with common sense on here.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Flaws

[Fortune Runner 796]

6 hours ago, Abduct / Devote said:

No, they don't struggle

you seem to misunderstand the present with the past and why it was changed. you can stop now please.

[Abduct / Devote 69]

8 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

you seem to misunderstand the present with the past and why it was changed. you can stop now please.

You are selectively quoting to attempt to... look intelligent? I guess. Not sure what else you'd be going for. I understand very much what I'm talking about, but I think you lack enough argument that you have to go to such extremes in order to look better. You're the one who should have stopped. You're just personally going after me with a vendetta, you don't care about balance. That's the honest truth, you just don't like losing.

[Fortune Runner 796]

2 hours ago, Abduct / Devote said:

 

and yet again the ntec was changed to balance it because it failed at being balanced - it wasn't supposed to cqc like that since its not its field yet it did.

why you keep talking about the present when its the past that was changed to the present to fix balancing is beyond anyone.

like i said. its a fact about the changers and why. you can stop now. like seriously. stop. its done.

 

[Abduct / Devote 69]

14 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

and yet again the ntec was changed to balance it because it failed at being balanced - it wasn't supposed to cqc like that since its not its field yet it did.

why you keep talking about the present when its the past that was changed to the present to fix balancing is beyond anyone.

like i said. its a fact about the changers and why. you can stop now. like seriously. stop. its done.

 

CQC like what? It didn't beat CQC back then, and it doesn't now if the CQC is equal skill level and competent. My point was that if you are losing with the CQC, that's player issue not NTEC. You're whining about that as if I don't understand for w.e reason and have some weird issue with this. It wasn't "too strong" in cqc before, why would I not make the case for the pre-nerf version if I'm saying it shouldn't have been nerfed? Are you that incompetent to understand past/present yourself?

[CookiePuss 5379]

6 minutes ago, Abduct / Devote said:

my point was that if you are losing with the CQC, that's player issue not NTEC

That is how I felt as well.
 

 

[Flaws 1033]

3 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

and yet again the ntec was changed to balance it because it failed at being balanced - it wasn't supposed to cqc like that since its not its field yet it did.

why you keep talking about the present when its the past that was changed to the present to fix balancing is beyond anyone.

like i said. its a fact about the changers and why. you can stop now. like seriously. stop. its done.

 

No offense, mate. But its exactly thanks to people like you on the forums that weapon balancing has taken such an insane downfall. The game is only being hurt by this. Just because it was changed by LO who don't play the game much themselves (so they don't know any better) thanks to noob veteran opinions on the forums (like yours), does not mean that they're right. Not only with N-TEC but other guns too. I don't mean to offend but its just a fact.

[RespectThis 121]

5 minutes ago, Flaws said:

No offense, mate. But its exactly thanks to people like you on the forums that weapon balancing has taken such an insane downfall. The game is only being hurt by this. Just because it was changed by LO who don't play the game much themselves (so they don't know any better) thanks to noob veteran opinions on the forums (like yours), does not mean that they're right. Not only with N-TEC but other guns too. I don't mean to offend but its just a fact.

Better watch out there bud, gonna hurt some feelings. You're 100% correct and thats also what i've tried saying time and time again. Multiple QQ posts on X weapon leads to weapon changes. Community moves to the next gun. QQ posts on X weapon. Rinse and repeat.

[Iazer 204]

1 hour ago, Flaws said:

LO who don't play the game much themselves

How sure are you of that though, they aren't exactly gonna be playing on the same names that you see on the forums, Discord etc.

[Abduct / Devote 69]

4 minutes ago, Iazer said:

How sure are you of that though, they aren't exactly gonna be playing on the same names that you see on the forums, Discord etc.

It's a pretty normal assumption to make, but even if they are "playing" the game, they aren't doing it like normal people. For example, progressed from the normal start, gone through leveling, progression, "getting good" and well, putting the time in. That's what Flaws really means, because they don't play the game like we have. I think it's pretty safe to assume that by that definition, he's right. 

[Kevkof 806]

2 minutes ago, Abduct / Devote said:

It's a pretty normal assumption to make, but even if they are "playing" the game, they aren't doing it like normal people. For example, progressed from the normal start, gone through leveling, progression, "getting good" and well, putting the time in. That's what Flaws really means, because they don't play the game like we have. I think it's pretty safe to assume that by that definition, he's right. 

They might not have played since 2011 like you, but they probably did go through all the standard steps as well. Likely that includes the 20 or so uninstalls 

[Abduct / Devote 69]

16 minutes ago, Kevkof said:

They might not have played since 2011 like you, but they probably did go through all the standard steps as well. Likely that includes the 20 or so uninstalls 

So its safe for you guys to assume they have done this but it isn't for us to assume they haven't? Nice double standards. 

Very big doubts here  

I do not think they've gone through truly playing the game, but you do you man. I definitely have to go in agreement with Flaws here though.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Abduct / Devote