Shotguns

[yJung 10]

I know it's kinda weird to talk about the Shotguns since they were just recently "adjusted", but as I try to play with them, I can't get over this feeling that they are just in a wrong place. In my opinion they are really unreliable. I compared the Joker TAS20 PR1 (with Improved Rifling 3) and a JG with Improved Rifling 3. Honestly, they are both unreliable but TAS is just horrible. Even if you hit your shots, if the enemy is more than around 7m away from you, it will just make no damage. TAS feels and plays wrong, can't even properly corner camp with it, even though it's one of the strong point of Shotguns. Idk if it's due to ghostshots but i had many fights, with JG, when I had to hit 6 whole body shots to kill one guy within 7m range. I can't be the only one to see it, can I?

[CookiePuss 5378]

12 minutes ago, yJung said:

I know it's kinda weird to talk about the Shotguns since they were just recently "adjusted", but as I try to play with them, I can't get over this feeling that they are just in a wrong place. In my opinion they are really unreliable. I compared the Joker TAS20 PR1 (with Improved Rifling 3) and a JG with Improved Rifling 3. Honestly, they are both unreliable but TAS is just horrible. Even if you hit your shots, if the enemy is more than around 7m away from you, it will just make no damage. TAS feels and plays wrong, can't even properly corner camp with it, even though it's one of the strong point of Shotguns. Idk if it's due to ghostshots but i had many fights, with JG, when I had to hit 6 whole body shots to kill one guy within 7m range. I can't be the only one to see it, can I?

The CSG has tighter spread and more range than the JG, so I'm not sure your representation is accurate.

[MotokoHutt 22]

On 3/29/2020 at 6:16 PM, CookiePuss said:

The CSG has tighter spread and more range than the JG, so I'm not sure your representation is accurate.

I think your overlooking or just straight up missing the entire point of his post, it's not about comparing 1 shotgun to another, it's about how unreliable shotgun's are now post nerf. 99.9% of the time SMG's are just 100x more reliable and more effective in any and all combat scenario's even in corner camping where shotgun's are suppose to hit there real prime. This is why we have seen a rapid decline in the use of shotguns amoung the APB community, everyone that would normally use a CSG20 or JG or hell even an NFAS have now just swapped over to using OCA's and PMG's because they require far less skill and land there intended damage with almost flawless certainty unlike shotguns which feel like spinning a roulette wheel everytime you shoot someone.

Edited April 22, 2020 by MotokoHutt

[RealSlimShady 26]

You have to put your crosshair on their chest or you’ll miss a lot of shots, yet i still feel rng is too hard on these guns 

Edited April 22, 2020 by RealSlimShady
grammar

[MotokoHutt 22]

31 minutes ago, RealSlimShady said:

You have to put your crosshair on their chest or you’ll miss a lot of shots, yet i still feel rng is too hard on these guns 

yup 9/10 times even if your oponent was standing still and your crosshair is dead center of mass it feel's like rolling a dice to whether or not you will get the damage you rightfully earned.

[Resine 144]

That's funny, I am quite sure that I tested it post balance it's still 2 shot from 13 meters away? I can understand that there are people that are laggy mess from god's know where and for some reason are not automatically kicked even playing at 200ms and some shots are not registered properly. But if someone is having an issue in every fight complaining over and over its usually their aim ability failing them.

[Noob_Guardian 417]

Pump Shotguns don't reliably kill in 2 hits past 7m unless its the strife. The only time they did was when CSG was OP and ended up getting nerfed. You should expect 3-5 hits past 7m for most pump shotguns.

 

SMGs have always had more range than shotguns, shotguns have always been for much closer engagements. Don't expect them to be good outside of 10m (except for strife/shredder/corsair) because they aren't meant to kill reliably that far out.

 

Shotguns have random spread, CSG used to not, and they gave it random spread to make it not "ptw". Shotguns are in a decent place if you know how to use them and approach with them, but with you being new it'll be a bit of a learning curve.

4 hours ago, Resine said:

That's funny, I am quite sure that I tested it post balance it's still 2 shot from 13 meters away? I can understand that there are people that are laggy mess from god's know where and for some reason are not automatically kicked even playing at 200ms and some shots are not registered properly. But if someone is having an issue in every fight complaining over and over its usually their aim ability failing them.

It's more likely the random spread is biting them. I dont think it was 2 shotting reliably that far, maybe once in a while but 3+ shots with CSG at 13m sounds about right, and 5+ for JG sounds right.

 

CSG (I'm pretty sure is the TAS?) has tighter spread than the JG, and the JG has the same spread as an NFAS. As such expect CSG to be more reliable further out, however it also does less damage than JG so you may think you're tickling them instead if you miss slightly or don't get good on the spread.

 

TDLR Dont expect most shotguns to be good past 10m

Edited April 22, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[Dezire 107]

The thumper and normal showstopper are both useless atm. Sure they’ve got a 3 stk on paper, but anything outside of 2m it instantly takes a whole mag or 2 to kill someone. I get that they might’ve been slightly too powerful pre patch, but god damn if they aren’t just straight up garbage atm.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Dezire

[PingOVER9000 189]

On 4/22/2020 at 8:27 PM, Dezire said:

The thumper and normal showstopper are both useless atm. Sure they’ve got a 3 stk on paper, but anything outside of 2m it instantly takes a whole mag or 2 to kill someone. I get that they might’ve been slightly too powerful pre patch, but god damn if they aren’t just straight up garbage atm.

 

I confirm, DOW is so sadly bad

[Darkzero3802 611]

Heres the thing about shotties, they can tweak and balance them till the cows come home its not going to mean jack when hitreg is so garbage hits become RNG and you have to prey to the RNG gods that your shots hit as they should. Untill hitreg and server perf is addressed these cant accurately be balanced.

[Hexerin 1140]

I told you people that the rayscaling revert would cause these issues, but ya'll just downvoted me to oblivion.

 

You get what you deserve, and I have no sympathy to spare for your tears now.

[R3ACT3M 489]

On 3/29/2020 at 10:02 AM, yJung said:

they are really unreliable

They can be, but you can definitely see what LO was trying to do. The more you play with the shot gun the more you realize you need to be really good at hitting all the pellets.

[Jilleroo 349]

On 4/22/2020 at 3:59 AM, MotokoHutt said:

it's about how unreliable shotgun's are now post nerf.

Shotguns have always been a riskier gun to run with a weird niche corner hump role. SMGs are way more forgiving, shotguns just aren't and never will be.

 

Shotguns in APB are for masochists.

[Tenginima 74]

4 hours ago, Hexerin said:

I told you people that the rayscaling revert would cause these issues, but ya'll just downvoted me to oblivion.

 

You get what you deserve, and I have no sympathy to spare for your tears now.

Rayscaling was incredibly broken however, as yes while it made shotguns somewhat more reliable, it made them way too forgiving, as any half-assed Removed inappropriate language ~@mayii scrub could hit 30% of their pellets on you and do close to 50% and more health damage, meaning that it made aiming very trivial. Also it made the Thunder and NFAS with IR3 hilariously broken.

It also was more of a band-aid solution to a deep serrated wound that is bleeding bad, hitreg should be a more important area of change and after that we can start looking at actually changing shotguns. 

Also spelled Removed inappropriate language ~@mayii the way I did cause the fuking word censorship is stupid

[CookiePuss 5378]

JG still owns.
That's what Ive been using.

[Noob_Guardian 417]

21 hours ago, Hexerin said:

I told you people that the rayscaling revert would cause these issues, but ya'll just downvoted me to oblivion.

 

You get what you deserve, and I have no sympathy to spare for your tears now.

Rayscaling would have been fine, but they didn't balance rayscaling properly at all. Imagine a shotgun that only has to hit 3 of 8 pellets to do full damage. That's stupid af. Most shotguns in other games 1 shot off a full shot with "most" pellots, but that'd be broke AF in APB. Rayscaling would work "better" for a key "few" shotguns when done right (looking at massive spread ones), but others wouldn't need it. Should have need "most" shots to hit for rayscaling to do normal damage. Like, make JG fire 10 shots, then make it so 8 does full damage still type of rayscale.

 

Strife, CSG, and dow (out of mm), and shredder probably wouldn't need it, other high spread ones could use it if done right.

 

It's not even like anyone "asked" for rayscaling to my knowledge either, so you can get off that high horse.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[CookiePuss 5378]

12 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Rayscaling would have been fine, but they didn't balance rayscaling properly at all. Imagine a shotgun that only has to hit 3 of 8 pellets to do full damage. That's stupid af. Most shotguns in other games 1 shot off a full shot with "most" pellots, but that'd be broke AF in APB. Rayscaling would work "better" for a key "few" shotguns when done right (looking at massive spread ones), but others wouldn't need it. Should have need "most" shots to hit for rayscaling to do normal damage. Like, make JG fire 10 shots, then make it so 8 does full damage still type of rayscale.

 

Even with per ray scaling you still needed to land all pellets to do full damage, and for say the JG, you needed to land only 1 less pellet (out of two shots) to min stk.

If you check the math it wasn't nearly as big a change as you say, and your example of "3 of 8 pellets do full damage" is just laughable.
 

17 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

It's not even like anyone "asked" for rayscaling to my knowledge either, so you can get off that high horse.

The community, as a whole, has wanted weapon balance for years. Some iterations work and other's won't, but to say no one asked for this is dishonest.

[PingOVER9000 189]

On 7/24/2020 at 3:32 PM, CookiePuss said:

JG still owns.
That's what Ive been using.

This isnt answer nothing sadly, we are more and less the same point of departure.

 

I re-write what my feedback about  shotguns here below, but "someone" continue to cancel my message without a reason, sorry if I was late but I didnt played a lot these months or used them, except JG.

- CSG/ Tas is almost fine, reward your aim and I like how it is now, but I feel it a little slower its fire rate/ ttk compared to other cqc weapon for firing the second shot or following ones.

 

The supposed advantage of having more range than JG, very barely I see it or the difference, the JG is still better, faster and versatile. (I admit the JG  it's more rng, but unless of very bad luck 89% of the times and if you have a decent tracking/aim  the pellet spread is in your favour)

 

So,In my weak opinion, LO may follow two direction:

 

1) Leave all like that and just buff a little, but a little little the fire rate, 0.75 for a CQC weapon is kinda mediocre.

2) Leave all like that but  give a accuracy buff/ pellet spread, i mean make it at 9/10m  if there are 2 fired clear shot it shall be a 90/100% kill, not just a weak possibility/ variable ( sincerly I am NOT so full convinced  a lot about this option, but actually you cant archieve it neither with CSG also with 3/4/5 shots especially after one step above 10.00000001 m,  because of the spread or very simple they will KILL you before to land those shots...)

 

- JG is fine, nothing to add, make its rough work if servers/ latency are ok.

 

 

- DOW is sadly bad, for what I remind worst of it was before the last balance.

I am not surpraised to see it selled in marina  for 300/500k, nowdays.

 

- NFAS... sincerly I like this weapon got nerfed to oblivion, it would be nice a total rework of this weapon, if LO want to make/ continue shotguns a 3 shot to kills experiment, have to make it first balanced for giving a clue to themself and us... I guess

 

- Shredder, no clue,  I havent tried it except the trial when it was op and I didnt purchased it for how lame it was and knowing it will end the story with it after purchased....

Fire rate seem very slow, range  nothing of special, accuracy... I dont see a lot of hopes to get a role in APB for this weapon in future 

 

I will try a little heavily showstopperS next days too, but I bet here we didnt change a lot from before... 

On 7/25/2020 at 12:27 AM, Noob_Guardian said:

It's not even like anyone "asked" for rayscaling to my knowledge either, so you can get off that high horse.

 

On 7/25/2020 at 12:46 AM, CookiePuss said:

The community, as a whole, has wanted weapon balance for years. Some iterations work and other's won't, but to say no one asked for this is dishonest.

 

Asked yes, but for crap tier weapons, not the ones are already in competitive tier 

Edited July 25, 2020 by PingOVER9000
GRAMMAR corrections -.-

[Darkzero3802 611]

On 7/23/2020 at 8:33 PM, Hexerin said:

I told you people that the rayscaling revert would cause these issues, but ya'll just downvoted me to oblivion.

 

You get what you deserve, and I have no sympathy to spare for your tears now.

Oh glorious forum warriors

[Noob_Guardian 417]

On 7/25/2020 at 1:03 PM, PingOVER9000 said:

you have posted more of 10 times of mine post and double (ok x1.5 times...) than of Hexerin.

 

Without counting you are a furry furriness and... there isnt nothing glorious about this  

I mean, i have 3x more than him, actually had people complaining about me being active on forums saying i was "strong arming" LO and G1 to balance things certain ways lel.

 

There's nothing wrong with people being a "furry". There is a problem with people being self righteous for litterally "no" reason.

On 7/25/2020 at 3:21 AM, PingOVER9000 said:

Asked yes, but for crap tier weapons, not the ones are already in competitive tier 

 

Asked for better balance of crap tier weapons. I don't remember anyone asking for ray scaling "specifically" in any situation.

 

Merged.

 

On 7/25/2020 at 12:46 AM, CookiePuss said:

Even with per ray scaling you still needed to land all pellets to do full damage, and for say the JG, you needed to land only 1 less pellet (out of two shots) to min stk.

If you check the math it wasn't nearly as big a change as you say, and your example of "3 of 8 pellets do full damage" is just laughable.
 

The community, as a whole, has wanted weapon balance for years. Some iterations work and other's won't, but to say no one asked for this is dishonest.

What's laughable is being able to 2 shot kill only hitting 6 of the needed 16 shots. That still equates to 3/8. Soo, my math may have not been full accurate, since "full damage" of the gun is like 1700? damage, but full damage on a player is only 1000 without kev.

 

My point was for people SPECIFICALLY ASKING for RAYSCALING. I've been calling for balance of different weapons for years as have others, that doesn't mean people were calling for "RAYSCALING". No one to my knowledge specifically asked for rayscaling on forums or in game, so if we're being honest, saying "well people wanted balance" and claiming that they meant rayscaling IS dishonest because most people specifically stated other ways to balance things.

 

That's like some artist saying "I want red" then his assistant grabbing maroon paint because "it's red you asked for it".

[CookiePuss 5378]

1 hour ago, Noob_Guardian said:

 my math may have not been full accurate

More than that, it shows you don't actually know what you are talking about.

[Nagletz 215]

I don't get why NFAS gets much hate, sure it was annoying, but wasn't like ATAC nowadays.

I want it back tbh...

[PingOVER9000 189]

6 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

I mean, i have 3x more than him, actually had people complaining about me being active on forums saying i was "strong arming" LO and G1 to balance things certain ways lel.

 

There's nothing wrong with people being a "furry". There is a problem with people being self righteous for litterally "no" reason.

 

Asked for better balance of crap tier weapons. I don't remember anyone asking for ray scaling "specifically" in any situation.

 

Anyway chill out, we were just joking. embrace the meme furry boi 

1 hour ago, Nagletz said:

I don't get why NFAS gets much hate, sure it was annoying, but wasn't like ATAC nowadays.

I want it back tbh...

I didnt retain it excatly overpowered in past, but one or a pair of steps above other CQC weapons  certainly yes,  and the fact you dont need literraly to aim for making a kill and just spam the entire mag for kill 1 or also 2 opponents at the same times have no sense.

Not agree with the total nerf and not a proper rework, but actually a little breath from nfas spammers isnt so bad.

 

ATAC is still the same since ages, it's versatile for its range/ recoil and noobfriendly but lose against  specialist weapons in their forte category.

Edited July 25, 2020 by PingOVER9000

[Darkzero3802 611]

On 7/25/2020 at 7:03 AM, PingOVER9000 said:

you have posted more of 10 times of mine post and double (ok x1.5 times...) than of Hexerin.

 

Without counting you are a furry furriness and... there isnt nothing glorious about this  

Im being sarcastic when I say that however to shed some light a forum warrior is someone who stopped actively logging in and playing yet they remain active on the forums