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On 3/8/2020 at 5:12 AM, PingOVER9000 said:

Sorry I am not playing a lot lately, may u tell me what have they nerfed about the ntec? 

 

For what I remind about ntec has just nerfed its accuracy during jump-corner shotting, am I wrong?

They nerfed jump accuracy and made its max bloom even larger. I feel they could have reduced its bloom recovery and jump accuracy instead, but having a gimped ntec in cqc is pretty nice imo.

 

11 hours ago, Flaws said:

I am far more experienced than you and that's not ego talk, that's just facts. It is indeed the best balanced weapon in the game and most everyone else who is good at the game has acknowledged that. Just because they don't come on the forums to argue with certain individuals because it is a waste of time and energy doesn't mean that they don't acknowledge it, they just can't be bothered and they are probably right 🙂

 

I am downvoting simply because you are typing up bs. You come here to read what you wanna read and be in denial about everything else even if it's factual. I have no reason to be salty.

The star/far is the most balanced weapon in the game. The NTEC is/was superior to every other "mid range" weapon ingame. There's a reason why the majority used the NTEC over any other midrange gun even when owning most of them. If something in APB is balanced, like the OCA, it's used, but not overtly so compared to other weapons in its niche and category. When something is overpowered, it's used without end, like qs hvr, jump scout, prenerf C-2, and prenerf atac, and NTEC by the majority.

 

4 hours ago, Flaws said:

I've attempted that way too many times, especially with you and one or two others on this forums over the past year+ in many different threads made about the N-TEC changes prior and post the nerf and you've had nothing of value to put forward other than "you just want to keep your crutch" which is a laughable statement.

Considering people who never wanted it touched argue "just buff every other gun to be as strong" and then when a weapon like the ATAC or anything similar that isn't an NTEC comes along or gets buffed to be capable of competing, or performed better than the NTEC in "x" range, it got nerfed from ntec mains (and litterally everyone else complaining because it's too powerful). Why? Because NTEC was broke and anything stronger than it is automatically considered broken. Anything that tends to be stronger than the NTEC in the rifle-ish niche, also ends up being too overpowered for cqc weapons, which ironically, is why NTEC got nerfed in CQC and jump shooting.

 

NTEC really only needed jump shooting nerfed and bloom recovery lessened to like 4 or 4.25 for a start to see how it performed. But that would have accrued billions of whiners. At least not too many people bitched about the current ntec changes from what I've seen. NTEC is still used heavily because no other weapon aside from obeya can easily harrass people at range, but I've seen other weapons being used a little bit more often now as well which is good.
 

The STAR should be the ideal weapon that one considers the most balanced, and which other AR's should revolve around. The reason the NTEC was always seen as that was because it was always too powerful, and not "the newbie weapon" which is ironic since the best pistol aside from the .45 is the fwb.

 

Edited by Noob_Guardian
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16 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

They nerfed jump accuracy and made its max bloom even larger. I feel they could have reduced its bloom recovery and jump accuracy instead, but having a gimped ntec in cqc is pretty nice imo.

 

The star/far is the most balanced weapon in the game. The NTEC is/was superior to every other "mid range" weapon ingame. There's a reason why the majority used the NTEC over any other midrange gun even when owning most of them. If something in APB is balanced, like the OCA, it's used, but not overtly so compared to other weapons in its niche and category. When something is overpowered, it's used without end, like qs hvr, jump scout, prenerf C-2, and prenerf atac, and NTEC by the majority.

 

Considering people who never wanted it touched argue "just buff every other gun to be as strong" and then when a weapon like the ATAC or anything similar that isn't an NTEC comes along or gets buffed to be capable of competing, or performed better than the NTEC in "x" range, it got nerfed from ntec mains (and litterally everyone else complaining because it's too powerful). Why? Because NTEC was broke and anything stronger than it is automatically considered broken. Anything that tends to be stronger than the NTEC in the rifle-ish niche, also ends up being too overpowered for cqc weapons, which ironically, is why NTEC got nerfed in CQC and jump shooting.

 

NTEC really only needed jump shooting nerfed and bloom recovery lessened to like 4 or 4.25 for a start to see how it performed. But that would have accrued billions of whiners. At least not too many people bitched about the current ntec changes from what I've seen. NTEC is still used heavily because no other weapon aside from obeya can easily harrass people at range, but I've seen other weapons being used a little bit more often now as well which is good.
 

The STAR should be the ideal weapon that one considers the most balanced, and which other AR's should revolve around. The reason the NTEC was always seen as that was because it was always too powerful, and not "the newbie weapon" which is ironic since the best pistol aside from the .45 is the fwb.

 

The difference why people hated on the ATAC is because it’s a braindead gun, extremely easy to use, high reward, just hold LMB. NTEC may have been easy to get into but the gun had so much depth, you could mod it anyway, tap fire, 2 burst, 3 burst, spray. One of the main reasons it was used so much was because it was such a well rounded gun, perfect for carrying if you had the skill required. However, it is far from the    only gun that can carry in both long and cqc range, you can do the exact same thing with an obeya or an obir. That’s why you see so many players playing obeya now, it can even be done with a carbine or scout to a certain extent. The versitility of the guns is what makes them feel good to play. The current NTEC feels kinda clunky and boring, much like the current HVR along with the shotguns.

 

Honestly the way I see it, you lose with longrange vs an NTEC past 60m or with a cqc weapon within 20m unless the enemy has some massive advantage, you’re just bad. You should not be losing within your own range with a cqc unless you mess up in someway. Even within the 20-60m range I wouldn’t say the NTEC is the best gun, there are plenty of guns that could challenge it on this range. I feel like it’s just the most accessible weapon for how well rounded it is. 
 

Since it also only takes 10 kills with AR to unlock I don’t see a problem in it being a straight upgrade to star. 
 

 

 

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On 3/8/2020 at 9:24 AM, Flaws said:

Nope. It is currently suffering from an unnecessary nerf that should be reverted.

Out of curiosity, which of the nerfs did you think was bad? Jumpshooting or bloom changes?

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6 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

The star/far is the most balanced weapon in the game.

Those are two different guns my dude.

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6 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

The star/far is the most balanced weapon in the game. The NTEC is/was superior to every other "mid range" weapon ingame. There's a reason why the majority used the NTEC over any other midrange gun even when owning most of them. If something in APB is balanced, like the OCA, it's used, but not overtly so compared to other weapons in its niche and category. When something is overpowered, it's used without end, like qs hvr, jump scout, prenerf C-2, and prenerf atac, and NTEC by the majority.

Both the STAR and the FAR have practically no full-auto bloom and are capable of jump shooting so the N-TEC was perfectly in line with them but isn't anymore. The only reason it's been nerfed isn't because it needed a nerf but because people cried about it non-stop so it got attention. There are so many other examples of overpowered and broken guns in the game that are completely overlooked because there isn't enough noise about them (two examples are AMG weapons and Manic). It's the N-TEC that took the hit because of extremely loud bad players who get smashed on a daily basis by good players who happen to be playing N-TEC due to it's versatility against mediocre players. Not to mention that both STAR and FAR are incredibly boring to play, they feel very plastic, slow and just overall meh which is why I still stick to N-TEC for ARs even if the FAR is currently superior (and it always was in line with the N-TEC until now).

 

On that note, don't compare the N-TEC with HVR, C2 or the ATAC. Those are weapons that are largely only used by lesser players who need a crutch to carry themselves while the N-TEC is/was massively used by actually skilled players who've mastered the weapon which is the only reason they could make it somewhat work in close range. If you pay attention to who uses what, you will largely see new players, lesser players, people with low FPS playing those weapons exactly due to how easy they are and require zero knowledge yet they yield a high reward. The N-TEC was never dominant because there were and still are weapons in the game that are more than capable enough of smashing any N-TEC user at any range. The HVR, C2 and ATAC require no skill, aim or knowledge about the game. The difference between the crowds that use those weapons from the N-TEC is 180 degrees off. One's a group of casuals who don't care to learn the game or are simply incapable so they pick the easiest ways to go while the others are talented players who practically play a whole different game in a completely different world.

 

6 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Considering people who never wanted it touched argue "just buff every other gun to be as strong" and then when a weapon like the ATAC or anything similar that isn't an NTEC comes along or gets buffed to be capable of competing, or performed better than the NTEC in "x" range, it got nerfed from ntec mains (and litterally everyone else complaining because it's too powerful). Why? Because NTEC was broke and anything stronger than it is automatically considered broken. Anything that tends to be stronger than the NTEC in the rifle-ish niche, also ends up being too overpowered for cqc weapons, which ironically, is why NTEC got nerfed in CQC and jump shooting.

 

NTEC really only needed jump shooting nerfed and bloom recovery lessened to like 4 or 4.25 for a start to see how it performed. But that would have accrued billions of whiners. At least not too many people bitched about the current ntec changes from what I've seen. NTEC is still used heavily because no other weapon aside from obeya can easily harrass people at range, but I've seen other weapons being used a little bit more often now as well which is good.
 

The STAR should be the ideal weapon that one considers the most balanced, and which other AR's should revolve around. The reason the NTEC was always seen as that was because it was always too powerful, and not "the newbie weapon" which is ironic since the best pistol aside from the .45 is the fwb.

 

Yeah, buff weapons that actually require skill to make them fun and more in line with a weapon such as the N-TEC that has so much more depth than any other gun in the game. Players don't play the N-TEC just because it's good but also because it's fun and it feels good to use it, it is satisfying. For a skilled player there's nothing satisfying about getting kills with an ATAC, it just feels like a cheap waste of time unless you're bored or trolling around. Like others have pointed out, the ATAC is a braindead gun as it requires literally no knowledge of the game. It is simply hold LMB and you get free kills similarly to N-FAS and these mechanics simply cannot be a part of a game that is trying to be competitive. You can't even begin to compare it to the N-TEC, it is simply not serious. The players who will "whine" about N-TEC nerfs are the high skilled players who don't want the game to become more boring as it already is becoming slowly. For example, the HVR nerf is awful as they didn't address the main problem of the HVR but instead made the weapon dreadfully boring to play while it maintained it's broken damage output. So do you genuinely think that high tier players won't be able to dominate lesser players without the N-TEC too? Come on. Also, I am not sure what weapons you speak of that got nerfed by N-TEC users or that were too overpowered for CQC.

 

The fact is that when I face an ATAC (which is supposed to be an AR) I'd go and pick an SMG to counter it due to how broken and easy it is for others to get kills with but when I face an N-TEC I'll actually pick an N-TEC too because I don't need to overpower it with something else that's not even made for that range and I can enjoy an interesting N-TEC duel instead of who's gonna get better RNG while holding LMB.

 

Every weapon in every category is more than well equipped to take on the N-TEC. Every SMG and Shotgun is capable of devastating the N-TEC in close range if you're not terrible. Every marksman weapon is capable of devastating the N-TEC in mid range (Carbine, OSCAR, Obeya Rifle, OBIR) if you're not terrible. Every long range weapon is capable of devastating the N-TEC at it's range if you're not terrible. The N-TEC in its previous form was not dominant at any range unless you were actually good at the game and even then you'd need actual skill, aim, extra effort and correct positioning to take on players of equally high skill who pick different weapons. You can't just expect every weapon to be able to take on every weapon at face value as it is a game that attempts to be competitive therefore some skill, thought and effort must be put into defeating players.

 

Regardless, players being low skilled is not the concern of game devs and that's one of the biggest points that need to be driven on these forums. The N-TEC debate problem seems to stem from the fact that the players who want a weapon such as the N-TEC nerfed are players who play a vastly different game than the players who could use N-TEC to it's full potential. The way these different groups of players perceive the game is 99% different. One group just does everything they can to get kills but they either don't care or are incapable of playing the game on a higher level so they stick to their ATACs, N-FAS and remote detonator. The other group have already mastered every mechanic of APB and will simply focus on strategy and outplaying enemies who are of similar skill level.

 

I am fully aware that there are plentyful short-sighted people who are going to read this and take offense (and probably downvote only due to that) because I call them bad but these are the facts. There's no way of settling this without talking about the Grand Canyon that is the skill gap between these two groups of players. Unfortunately, the terrible matchmaking plays a big role in this conversation but most people are unaware of that. The same can be said about the endless cheating discussion in APB and to the people who think that EAC is somehow disabled or a bad anti-cheat which is just downright delusional and comedic in a sad way.

2 hours ago, ExoticZ said:

Out of curiosity, which of the nerfs did you think was bad? Jumpshooting or bloom changes?

I disagree with both changes as they take away from the N-TEC's fun, versatility and skill ceiling and it is no longer in line with a bunch of other weapons in the game.

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On 3/11/2020 at 9:38 AM, CookiePuss said:

Those are two different guns my dude.

They are however rather similar. Aside from mag and base accuracy that is.

 

Merged.

 

On 3/11/2020 at 11:29 AM, Flaws said:

Both the STAR and the FAR have practically no full-auto bloom and are capable of jump shooting so the N-TEC was perfectly in line with them but isn't anymore. The only reason it's been nerfed isn't because it needed a nerf but because people cried about it non-stop so it got attention. There are so many other examples of overpowered and broken guns in the game that are completely overlooked because there isn't enough noise about them (two examples are AMG weapons and Manic). It's the N-TEC that took the hit because of extremely loud bad players who get smashed on a daily basis by good players who happen to be playing N-TEC due to it's versatility against mediocre players. Not to mention that both STAR and FAR are incredibly boring to play, they feel very plastic, slow and just overall meh which is why I still stick to N-TEC for ARs even if the FAR is currently superior (and it always was in line with the N-TEC until now).

 

On that note, don't compare the N-TEC with HVR, C2 or the ATAC. Those are weapons that are largely only used by lesser players who need a crutch to carry themselves while the N-TEC is/was massively used by actually skilled players who've mastered the weapon which is the only reason they could make it somewhat work in close range. If you pay attention to who uses what, you will largely see new players, lesser players, people with low FPS playing those weapons exactly due to how easy they are and require zero knowledge yet they yield a high reward. The N-TEC was never dominant because there were and still are weapons in the game that are more than capable enough of smashing any N-TEC user at any range. The HVR, C2 and ATAC require no skill, aim or knowledge about the game. The difference between the crowds that use those weapons from the N-TEC is 180 degrees off. One's a group of casuals who don't care to learn the game or are simply incapable so they pick the easiest ways to go while the others are talented players who practically play a whole different game in a completely different world.

 

Yeah, buff weapons that actually require skill to make them fun and more in line with a weapon such as the N-TEC that has so much more depth than any other gun in the game. Players don't play the N-TEC just because it's good but also because it's fun and it feels good to use it, it is satisfying. For a skilled player there's nothing satisfying about getting kills with an ATAC, it just feels like a cheap waste of time unless you're bored or trolling around. Like others have pointed out, the ATAC is a braindead gun as it requires literally no knowledge of the game. It is simply hold LMB and you get free kills similarly to N-FAS and these mechanics simply cannot be a part of a game that is trying to be competitive. You can't even begin to compare it to the N-TEC, it is simply not serious. The players who will "whine" about N-TEC nerfs are the high skilled players who don't want the game to become more boring as it already is becoming slowly. For example, the HVR nerf is awful as they didn't address the main problem of the HVR but instead made the weapon dreadfully boring to play while it maintained it's broken damage output. So do you genuinely think that high tier players won't be able to dominate lesser players without the N-TEC too? Come on. Also, I am not sure what weapons you speak of that got nerfed by N-TEC users or that were too overpowered for CQC.

 

The fact is that when I face an ATAC (which is supposed to be an AR) I'd go and pick an SMG to counter it due to how broken and easy it is for others to get kills with but when I face an N-TEC I'll actually pick an N-TEC too because I don't need to overpower it with something else that's not even made for that range and I can enjoy an interesting N-TEC duel instead of who's gonna get better RNG while holding LMB.

 

Every weapon in every category is more than well equipped to take on the N-TEC. Every SMG and Shotgun is capable of devastating the N-TEC in close range if you're not terrible. Every marksman weapon is capable of devastating the N-TEC in mid range (Carbine, OSCAR, Obeya Rifle, OBIR) if you're not terrible. Every long range weapon is capable of devastating the N-TEC at it's range if you're not terrible. The N-TEC in its previous form was not dominant at any range unless you were actually good at the game and even then you'd need actual skill, aim, extra effort and correct positioning to take on players of equally high skill who pick different weapons. You can't just expect every weapon to be able to take on every weapon at face value as it is a game that attempts to be competitive therefore some skill, thought and effort must be put into defeating players.

 

Regardless, players being low skilled is not the concern of game devs and that's one of the biggest points that need to be driven on these forums. The N-TEC debate problem seems to stem from the fact that the players who want a weapon such as the N-TEC nerfed are players who play a vastly different game than the players who could use N-TEC to it's full potential. The way these different groups of players perceive the game is 99% different. One group just does everything they can to get kills but they either don't care or are incapable of playing the game on a higher level so they stick to their ATACs, N-FAS and remote detonator. The other group have already mastered every mechanic of APB and will simply focus on strategy and outplaying enemies who are of similar skill level.

 

I am fully aware that there are plentyful short-sighted people who are going to read this and take offense (and probably downvote only due to that) because I call them bad but these are the facts. There's no way of settling this without talking about the Grand Canyon that is the skill gap between these two groups of players. Unfortunately, the terrible matchmaking plays a big role in this conversation but most people are unaware of that. The same can be said about the endless cheating discussion in APB and to the people who think that EAC is somehow disabled or a bad anti-cheat which is just downright delusional and comedic in a sad way.

I disagree with both changes as they take away from the N-TEC's fun, versatility and skill ceiling and it is no longer in line with a bunch of other weapons in the game.

NTEC is easy af to play, the reason people use it is because it was versatile in CQC and mid-long, where weapons like the star and far lose out at mid because the bloom recovery is slower and weapons like obeya were only superior at/past the NTEC damage drop. The STAR and FAR feel "meh and boring" because they require slower paced shots at mid range to be effective, while the NTEC doesn't. It tap fires and achieves kills quickly in comparison.

 

The reason why buffing every other weapon to old NTEC standards is impossible, is because game balance overall would then be atrocious. The other weapons that take out ntec, do so within their separate niches which they have to be competitve against the other weapons within their niches to be capable of doing so. If you're to buff anything to the NTECS strength, then their niches would be broke and much less defined, like the shredder first thing from the shotgun rework. Any weapon that goes into mid range, has to compete against the NTEC, and the only guns that are often effective against it, are only effective either as an SMG in 10-15m, or obeya at 40+/obir past 57m. Other AR's are tend to be much more useless in midrange. Aside from the FAR who's accuracy helps negate the slow bloom recovery. The only thing wrong with NTEC imo has always been the bloom recovery speed, but they've opted to nerfing it in a billion "other" ways lel.

 

Dunno about you but getting kills is getting kills. It's satisfying to use NFAS and ATAC to teamwipe. Dunno why you think that it's boring, it's no different than using the NTEC to teamwipe. Using non-meta guns like the shredder, odin series, and such are extremely satisfying to get kills with but they aren't broken and uber ez either.

 

When facing an NTEC I would go NTEC because its the only thing that would effectively compete against it at all ranges from cqc to mid. Not because "oh ntec fight is fun" (lel). There are a number of high skill players who wanted the NTEC nerfed as well, because they know that it isn't the "epitome of balance" that people claim it to be. I don't find "ntec vs ntec" fights 24/7 to be fun. Dealing with only 1 out of like 15? mid range weapons 90% of the time IS boring.

 

HVR's issue was QSING, not damage imo. They decided to break both in an annoying and backwards way.

 

One group does everything to get easy kills, including crutch behind a previously too versatile weapon and the other plays the game and has to deal with the consequences of not using broken weapons by using them as well or losing. That's a fun game to play.

 

The NTEC ATM is probably the most balanced its been, however the fact that they had to hardnerf CQC because they don't dare touch the midrange aspects of it is laughable.

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32 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

NTEC is easy af to play, the reason people use it is because it was versatile in CQC and mid-long, where weapons like the star and far lose out at mid because the bloom recovery is slower and weapons like obeya were only superior at/past the NTEC damage drop. The STAR and FAR feel "meh and boring" because they require slower paced shots at mid range to be effective, while the NTEC doesn't. It tap fires and achieves kills quickly in comparison.

 

The reason why buffing every other weapon to old NTEC standards is impossible, is because game balance overall would then be atrocious. The other weapons that take out ntec, do so within their separate niches which they have to be competitve against the other weapons within their niches to be capable of doing so. If you're to buff anything to the NTECS strength, then their niches would be broke and much less defined, like the shredder first thing from the shotgun rework. Any weapon that goes into mid range, has to compete against the NTEC, and the only guns that are often effective against it, are only effective either as an SMG in 10-15m, or obeya at 40+/obir past 57m. Other AR's are tend to be much more useless in midrange. Aside from the FAR who's accuracy helps negate the slow bloom recovery. The only thing wrong with NTEC imo has always been the bloom recovery speed, but they've opted to nerfing it in a billion "other" ways lel.

 

Dunno about you but getting kills is getting kills. It's satisfying to use NFAS and ATAC to teamwipe. Dunno why you think that it's boring, it's no different than using the NTEC to teamwipe. Using non-meta guns like the shredder, odin series, and such are extremely satisfying to get kills with but they aren't broken and uber ez either.

 

When facing an NTEC I would go NTEC because its the only thing that would effectively compete against it at all ranges from cqc to mid. Not because "oh ntec fight is fun" (lel). There are a number of high skill players who wanted the NTEC nerfed as well, because they know that it isn't the "epitome of balance" that people claim it to be. I don't find "ntec vs ntec" fights 24/7 to be fun. Dealing with only 1 out of like 15? mid range weapons 90% of the time IS boring.

 

HVR's issue was QSING, not damage imo. They decided to break both in an annoying and backwards way.

 

One group does everything to get easy kills, including crutch behind a previously too versatile weapon and the other plays the game and has to deal with the consequences of not using broken weapons by using them as well or losing. That's a fun game to play.

 

The NTEC ATM is probably the most balanced its been, however the fact that they had to hardnerf CQC because they don't dare touch the midrange aspects of it is laughable.

 

totally agree with your analysis, nothing to contradict !

 

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12 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

NTEC is easy af to play, the reason people use it is because it was versatile in CQC and mid-long, where weapons like the star and far lose out at mid because the bloom recovery is slower and weapons like obeya were only superior at/past the NTEC damage drop. The STAR and FAR feel "meh and boring" because they require slower paced shots at mid range to be effective, while the NTEC doesn't. It tap fires and achieves kills quickly in comparison.

N-TEC is "easy af to play" if your N-TEC abilities start and end with average speed tap firing at range which you've picked up from watching a video or a stream. No one who hasn't spent a respectable amount of time with the gun is able to use it efficently at close range and is most definitely not going to make use of faster tap firing. And when someone does master it, the N-TEC can defend itself in CQC but it cannot dominate in CQC. If someone complains about consistently losing to N-TECs in CQC while they are using a CQC weapon then that's 100% on them alone and not on the game's weapon balancing.

 

ARs are supposed to be versatile and more jack of all trades kind of weapons and that goes for every game. It's the same thing in every game out there you can think of. The Star and FAR might be ever so slightly slower (irrelevantly slower) at tap firing but their max bloom is ridiculously small, allowing for more reliable spraying where the N-TEC loses a lot of accuracy. On top of that, Star and FAR are both better at CQC than the N-TEC as their hip fire accuracy is also very high even with HS3. They both have the same jump shooting capabilities as pre-nerf N-TEC too, those are still in the game and virtually no one is talking about it. Yet despite them being this good at CQC (and ever so slightly worse at tap firing than the N-TEC) they still cannot dominate CQC because actual CQC weapons are so much better for CQC. I hope that you are beginning to understand where you are wrong. Being able to defend yourself in a field =/= dominating a field to the point where you can call it overpowered. It just isn't.

 

4 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

The reason why buffing every other weapon to old NTEC standards is impossible, is because game balance overall would then be atrocious. The other weapons that take out ntec, do so within their separate niches which they have to be competitve against the other weapons within their niches to be capable of doing so. If you're to buff anything to the NTECS strength, then their niches would be broke and much less defined, like the shredder first thing from the shotgun rework. Any weapon that goes into mid range, has to compete against the NTEC, and the only guns that are often effective against it, are only effective either as an SMG in 10-15m, or obeya at 40+/obir past 57m. Other AR's are tend to be much more useless in midrange. Aside from the FAR who's accuracy helps negate the slow bloom recovery. The only thing wrong with NTEC imo has always been the bloom recovery speed, but they've opted to nerfing it in a billion "other" ways lel.

Every other mid range weapon is more than capable enough of competing against the N-TEC. If you want to claim that the Star and FAR are at such a big disadvantage due to their slightly slower recovery speed (which isn't even relevant), consider Carbine and Oscar which have incredible mobility and have very little that you need to control to use it. They barely have recoil, the oscar has no bloom and it has decently high drop off range + everyone uses IR3 on it (with no downside to it). N-TEC doesn't have even close to such mobility and has to ADS to combat anything which makes it way less mobile and a much easier target. An N-TEC user needs to have mastered the recoil, the vastly different fire rates depending on range (bloom control) and aim tracking as the gun has every weapon mechanic and element that needs control to be used to it's full potential. All SMGs and shotguns are perfectly capable of dispatching any N-TEC user easily without a hitch even after recent rebalancing because they are made for CQC and they are so much more accurate, faster, more reliable and much easier for CQC than any AR in the game, as it should be.

 

The same thing is applicable for mid-long range weapons such as the Obeya Rifle. The Obeya can obliterate an N-TEC even within the N-TEC's optimal range if the user has the fire rate down, the OBIR will devastate an N-TEC if used combined with cover correctly and well timed shots which is how the OBIR is meant to be used. I fail to see how other weapon's niches are broken while they are already capable of dispatching N-TECs just fine.

 

4 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Dunno about you but getting kills is getting kills. It's satisfying to use NFAS and ATAC to teamwipe. Dunno why you think that it's boring, it's no different than using the NTEC to teamwipe. Using non-meta guns like the shredder, odin series, and such are extremely satisfying to get kills with but they aren't broken and uber ez either.

Then that simply means that you fall into the casuals category who simply enjoy getting kills and not the way you get them or how much skill and effort you put into it. Most (European) high tier players don't receive much fun or pleasure from slaughtering people with broken and overpowered weapons so it is very different (aside from when they are trolling and messing around). How much fun a weapon is isn't defined by meta or non-meta, it's defined by how the weapon is designed and more often than not - the aesthetics of it will play a role too (which is where the Star and FAR are lacking severely).

 

4 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

When facing an NTEC I would go NTEC because its the only thing that would effectively compete against it at all ranges from cqc to mid. Not because "oh ntec fight is fun" (lel). There are a number of high skill players who wanted the NTEC nerfed as well, because they know that it isn't the "epitome of balance" that people claim it to be. I don't find "ntec vs ntec" fights 24/7 to be fun. Dealing with only 1 out of like 15? mid range weapons 90% of the time IS boring.

I don't know who these high skill players are that you speak of but as we've seen, EU houses the top players the game has ever seen and I'm yet to hear of someone who thinks that the N-TEC needed a nerf. The closest I've heard to that is that the nerf isn't that big of a deal and that's only from one person out of many others that I've discussed it with. The reason you don't see N-TEC fights as fun is that you just don't perceive the game in the same way some of us do and there's nothing wrong with that. However, if you are a more flexible player you could also pick a CQC weapon and push said N-TEC player either with a car or flank them or you'd pick any other mid range weapon. You can't take how a weapon performs at face value based on sitting out in the open with no cover and no movement because that's not how APB is ever played by anyone. If you put zero thought into your gameplay, you deserve to lose to someone who does put thought and skill into their gameplay.

 

4 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

HVR's issue was QSING, not damage imo. They decided to break both in an annoying and backwards way.

HVR's main issue was never QS as it's not even that hard to counter but even if you want to say that it is, they could've nerfed it in a number of different ways instead of making it the unfun mess of a weapon that it is now. They could increase the equip time so that it remains viable at long ranges which is what a sniper rifle is supposed to be. The main problem with the HVR has always been the damage output it has even at 100m which makes all the difference. The fact that it can leave you at 1 hit from virtually anything in the game is absolutely insane. It gives so much credit and reliability to even the worst of players (we all know about those bronze HVRs who never miss) and it allows ANYONE to make a difference so huge that it changes the entire course of a mission 9/10 times. It's ridiculous. Just think about why every crutch player instantly swaps out their N-FAS or ATAC for an HVR the moment they start struggling at range.

 

My idea for the HVR is to first revert it to previous stats (aka get rid of the ridiculous damage based on accuracy mechanic that makes exactly 0 sense) and then increase equip time some, maybe just enough to make it so 3PS3 gives the HVR the current stock equip time. And then reduce damage to say 75 or 80 or something like that. That will deal with both quickswitching as we know it and it's ridiculous damage output while keeping it the definitive heavy sniper rifle that it is intended to be.

4 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

One group does everything to get easy kills, including crutch behind a previously too versatile weapon and the other plays the game and has to deal with the consequences of not using broken weapons by using them as well or losing. That's a fun game to play.

If you genuinely think that high tier players who use N-TEC are using it as a "crutch" and they can't dominate lesser players just as much without the N-TEC you are delusional. If someone needs to use a crutch they will use N-FAS, ATAC, AMG, Manic, Explosives, HVR, Showstopper secondaries, percs and so on. The casuals need to deal with playing bad at the game whether by choice or not, facing much better players pretty often due to the matchmaking system being as scuffed as it is. It has nothing to do with them having to deal with consequences of loadout choice lmao. If they picked the exact same loadouts as those high tier players, they would still get smashed just as hard if not twice as hard because they wouldn't have their actual crutches like N-FAS and ATAC. The N-TEC isn't a crutch and it never was. It's just very good for killing noobs.

4 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

The NTEC ATM is probably the most balanced its been, however the fact that they had to hardnerf CQC because they don't dare touch the midrange aspects of it is laughable.

You can't change the mid range aspect of the weapon when those are the exact AR standards for mid range, if you start nerfing that then it would outright kill the gun. The other ARs in the game behave the same exact way at mid-long range so there is no valid reason to touch that either.

 

The 3 main ARs in the game were already balanced decently as each of them excelled in a specific areas of AR. The Star and FAR are more reliable in CQC and the N-TEC is better at mid but less reliable at CQC. Regardless, as it is in every single game in existence, there will always be a meta that everyone will use. One will always be better than the others for X and Y reason unless all of the options are identical which they are not. In our case the N-TEC is the meta AR as it is strong at mid range and at CQC you can pull out a secondary if need be. If we brought down the N-TEC from meta then something else would take it's place and overtime people will start complaining about that too and it's always the people who have no way of dealing with it themselves in-game so they take to the forums to cry and whine, living in a dream world where they become better players just because some weapon gets nerfed lol.

 

I really hate having to type up essays on the forums.

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40 minutes ago, Flaws said:

N-TEC is "easy af to play" if your N-TEC abilities start and end with average speed tap firing at range which you've picked up from watching a video or a stream. No one who hasn't spent a respectable amount of time with the gun is able to use it efficently at close range and is most definitely not going to make use of faster tap firing. And when someone does master it, the N-TEC can defend itself in CQC but it cannot dominate in CQC. If someone complains about consistently losing to N-TECs in CQC while they are using a CQC weapon then that's 100% on them alone and not on the game's weapon balancing.

 

ARs are supposed to be versatile and more jack of all trades kind of weapons and that goes for every game. It's the same thing in every game out there you can think of. The Star and FAR might be ever so slightly slower (irrelevantly slower) at tap firing but their max bloom is ridiculously small, allowing for more reliable spraying where the N-TEC loses a lot of accuracy. On top of that, Star and FAR are both better at CQC than the N-TEC as their hip fire accuracy is also very high even with HS3. They both have the same jump shooting capabilities as pre-nerf N-TEC too, those are still in the game and virtually no one is talking about it. Yet despite them being this good at CQC (and ever so slightly worse at tap firing than the N-TEC) they still cannot dominate CQC because actual CQC weapons are so much better for CQC. I hope that you are beginning to understand where you are wrong. Being able to defend yourself in a field =/= dominating a field to the point where you can call it overpowered. It just isn't.

 

Every other mid range weapon is more than capable enough of competing against the N-TEC. If you want to claim that the Star and FAR are at such a big disadvantage due to their slightly slower recovery speed (which isn't even relevant), consider Carbine and Oscar which have incredible mobility and have very little that you need to control to use it. They barely have recoil, the oscar has no bloom and it has decently high drop off range + everyone uses IR3 on it (with no downside to it). N-TEC doesn't have even close to such mobility and has to ADS to combat anything which makes it way less mobile and a much easier target. An N-TEC user needs to have mastered the recoil, the vastly different fire rates depending on range (bloom control) and aim tracking as the gun has every weapon mechanic and element that needs control to be used to it's full potential. All SMGs and shotguns are perfectly capable of dispatching any N-TEC user easily without a hitch even after recent rebalancing because they are made for CQC and they are so much more accurate, faster, more reliable and much easier for CQC than any AR in the game, as it should be.

 

The same thing is applicable for mid-long range weapons such as the Obeya Rifle. The Obeya can obliterate an N-TEC even within the N-TEC's optimal range if the user has the fire rate down, the OBIR will devastate an N-TEC if used combined with cover correctly and well timed shots which is how the OBIR is meant to be used. I fail to see how other weapon's niches are broken while they are already capable of dispatching N-TECs just fine.

 

Then that simply means that you fall into the casuals category who simply enjoy getting kills and not the way you get them or how much skill and effort you put into it. Most (European) high tier players don't receive much fun or pleasure from slaughtering people with broken and overpowered weapons so it is very different (aside from when they are trolling and messing around). How much fun a weapon is isn't defined by meta or non-meta, it's defined by how the weapon is designed and more often than not - the aesthetics of it will play a role too (which is where the Star and FAR are lacking severely).

 

I don't know who these high skill players are that you speak of but as we've seen, EU houses the top players the game has ever seen and I'm yet to hear of someone who thinks that the N-TEC needed a nerf. The closest I've heard to that is that the nerf isn't that big of a deal and that's only from one person out of many others that I've discussed it with. The reason you don't see N-TEC fights as fun is that you just don't perceive the game in the same way some of us do and there's nothing wrong with that. However, if you are a more flexible player you could also pick a CQC weapon and push said N-TEC player either with a car or flank them or you'd pick any other mid range weapon. You can't take how a weapon performs at face value based on sitting out in the open with no cover and no movement because that's not how APB is ever played by anyone. If you put zero thought into your gameplay, you deserve to lose to someone who does put thought and skill into their gameplay.

 

HVR's main issue was never QS as it's not even that hard to counter but even if you want to say that it is, they could've nerfed it in a number of different ways instead of making it the unfun mess of a weapon that it is now. They could increase the equip time so that it remains viable at long ranges which is what a sniper rifle is supposed to be. The main problem with the HVR has always been the damage output it has even at 100m which makes all the difference. The fact that it can leave you at 1 hit from virtually anything in the game is absolutely insane. It gives so much credit and reliability to even the worst of players (we all know about those bronze HVRs who never miss) and it allows ANYONE to make a difference so huge that it changes the entire course of a mission 9/10 times. It's ridiculous. Just think about why every crutch player instantly swaps out their N-FAS or ATAC for an HVR the moment they start struggling at range.

 

My idea for the HVR is to first revert it to previous stats (aka get rid of the ridiculous damage based on accuracy mechanic that makes exactly 0 sense) and then increase equip time some, maybe just enough to make it so 3PS3 gives the HVR the current stock equip time. And then reduce damage to say 75 or 80 or something like that. That will deal with both quickswitching as we know it and it's ridiculous damage output while keeping it the definitive heavy sniper rifle that it is intended to be.

If you genuinely think that high tier players who use N-TEC are using it as a "crutch" and they can't dominate lesser players just as much without the N-TEC you are delusional. If someone needs to use a crutch they will use N-FAS, ATAC, AMG, Manic, Explosives, HVR, Showstopper secondaries, percs and so on. The casuals need to deal with playing bad at the game whether by choice or not, facing much better players pretty often due to the matchmaking system being as scuffed as it is. It has nothing to do with them having to deal with consequences of loadout choice lmao. If they picked the exact same loadouts as those high tier players, they would still get smashed just as hard if not twice as hard because they wouldn't have their actual crutches like N-FAS and ATAC. The N-TEC isn't a crutch and it never was. It's just very good for killing noobs.

You can't change the mid range aspect of the weapon when those are the exact AR standards for mid range, if you start nerfing that then it would outright kill the gun. The other ARs in the game behave the same exact way at mid-long range so there is no valid reason to touch that either.

 

The 3 main ARs in the game were already balanced decently as each of them excelled in a specific areas of AR. The Star and FAR are more reliable in CQC and the N-TEC is better at mid but less reliable at CQC. Regardless, as it is in every single game in existence, there will always be a meta that everyone will use. One will always be better than the others for X and Y reason unless all of the options are identical which they are not. In our case the N-TEC is the meta AR as it is strong at mid range and at CQC you can pull out a secondary if need be. If we brought down the N-TEC from meta then something else would take it's place and overtime people will start complaining about that too and it's always the people who have no way of dealing with it themselves in-game so they take to the forums to cry and whine, living in a dream world where they become better players just because some weapon gets nerfed lol.

 

I really hate having to type up essays on the forums.

I never felt NTEC dominated CQC, it was viable but annoying, not as good as an oca or shotgun half the time without crouching and such, but not dominating it. As i've mentioned, I'd rather have had a bloom recovery nerf, because I've always felt that 5.0 is too fast. CQC bothered me far less with the NTEC than how it easily shut out the majority of other midrange weapons 4.0-4.25 i feel would have been fine. I felt that doing so would help the other AR's compete in mid, while opening more room for obeya/obir at mid without making them overbearing. I won't deny that I enjoy the current iteration of NTEC however.

 

The only "Jack of All Trades" weapon is the STAR, and Far is really similar to it. Not the NTEC which people like to "put in it's place" instead.

 (likely why they made ntec trash at cqc as well)

 

Other midrange assault rifles have a longer TTK than the NTEC, and it is extremely noticable especially with the bloom recovery being slower when facing "skilled NTEC users".

 

I pick what weapon I want to use based on how I feel and how I want to have fun. If I want to actually "try" I would go NTEC, HVR, or 3 slot OCA over my silenced 0 slot one, or even a shotgun if need be. But I prefer to have fun and not go "try-mode" 24/7 and stick with whatever weapon I want because I can pull 20+kills out regardless if I cared to put that effort in. I know how to play "high skill matches" and abuse cover to the fullest to where I can lure and bait a flank of 3 annoying coordinated High skill players who love to push in a manner to which I kill all 3 one after another. It's not the most enjoyable thing to do, but it works. Though I do prefer just to go braindead half the time against such coordinated groups because bothering to try while in a PUG which I run 95% of the time is beyond my effort to care. If bother I can pull a 1.0 or positive K/d against some of the hardest players to beat in the server. But since facing them is boring I don't try that hard.

 

Your experience is different than on Jericho, as here people use whatever easy weapons they can to stomp anyone at all times. Rather than "just for lols". But we established that a while ago I think.

 

I feel APB is one of its most balanced states atm despite the random jank and annoying hvr-esk mechanics. A few weapons could do with minor tuning, but I can't say that anything is glaringly "overpowered". NTEC was "too versatile" imo and without a definite niche, now it seems to more or less have one, leaving the STAR as the Jack of Trades (as it should be).

 

Edited by Noob_Guardian

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11 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

They are however rather similar. Aside from mag and base accuracy that is.

I hate to bring this up, but Ive never been a fan of the FAR STAR comparison

 

Base accuracy is the same, however they have different shot modifier caps, different marksman modifiers, different reload times, different mag sizes, different refire rates, and of course different ttk's

 

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5 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

The only "Jack of All Trades" weapon is the STAR

the star isn't really a jack of all trades nor should it be imo

 

its a noob gun meant to allow players with little understanding of apb mechanics to still spray and pray to the occasional cqc victory, the far is a better contender for a true jack of all trades - accuracy and ttk giving it the flexibility to be a threat at pretty much any range below 60m without actually excelling anywhere

 

i've personally never understood the desire to handicap the ntec at range, since that's always where it was intended to excel, as the f2p long range alternative to the close range focused star

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8 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

I never felt NTEC dominated CQC, it was viable but annoying, not as good as an oca or shotgun half the time without crouching and such, but not dominating it. As i've mentioned, I'd rather have had a bloom recovery nerf, because I've always felt that 5.0 is too fast. CQC bothered me far less with the NTEC than how it easily shut out the majority of other midrange weapons 4.0-4.25 i feel would have been fine. I felt that doing so would help the other AR's compete in mid, while opening more room for obeya/obir at mid without making them overbearing. I won't deny that I enjoy the current iteration of NTEC however.

 

The only "Jack of All Trades" weapon is the STAR, and Far is really similar to it. Not the NTEC which people like to "put in it's place" instead.

 (likely why they made ntec trash at cqc as well)

 

Other midrange assault rifles have a longer TTK than the NTEC, and it is extremely noticable especially with the bloom recovery being slower when facing "skilled NTEC users".

N-TEC only seems like it's so much better than the FAR because the playerbase has decided that it is meta but if they had picked the FAR, we'd be having the same exact conversation about the FAR. I've seen enough top tier players go from N-TEC to FAR after the N-TEC nerf and they've been devastating N-TECs left and right. Since the N-TEC also had jump shooting capabilities, everyone kept whining about it and it is now gone. Had it been the FAR, the fate would've been the exact same as that weapon is perfectly capable of filling in the N-TEC's role 1 to 1.

 

The Star is more of a noob gun than a jack of all trades. It says it in the description of the gun but guess what the description of the weapon also says:

Quote

A jack-of-all-trades in its class, the Somatic Tactical Assault Rifle works best at short to middle ranges. While not the most accurate of rifles, the STAR 556 can fire fully-automatic without extreme loss of precision, making it a useful training weapon.

It's supposed to be the noob gun which allows you to more or less spray all you want with little consequences but it isn't supposed to excel at what the N-TEC does. The N-TEC excels at mid range but it ain't no training weapon that you can spray with at ranges like the Star can, even pre-nerf. It requires much more knowledge and feel for the game before you can use it efficently at what it's made for. There's a reason noobs tend to jump from Star to ATAC or any easier alternatives and they stray from the N-TEC. The N-TEC isn't nearly as easy as you think just because people have mastered it and are able to dominate with it consistently. They do the same with the FAR and recently even with the Star if they feel like it.

8 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

I feel APB is one of its most balanced states atm despite the random jank and annoying hvr-esk mechanics. A few weapons could do with minor tuning, but I can't say that anything is glaringly "overpowered". NTEC was "too versatile" imo and without a definite niche, now it seems to more or less have one, leaving the STAR as the Jack of Trades (as it should be).

If you feel like APB is a balanced place I urge you to check out the Manic which has no bloom and is probably one of the most efficent jump shoot weapons that easily work at mid range as well as close range while full autoing. Take a look at how incredibly accurate the AMG weapons are, specifically the Euryale and Stheno which can full auto snipe people with ease unlike the Shaw which requires quick bursts, accuracy and extreme recoil control/management. Take a look at the OBIR's quickswitching mechanic (which I am not necessarily against but it is considered broken). The HVR's damage output like I already stated. The PMG which now largely dominates the OCA since the last OCA nerf. There are many examples of weapons that need changes but no one is talking about most of those because nothing slays noobs better than a good N-TEC.

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Posted (edited)

It was, as expected over nerfed, especially if you consider how LO has gone about buffing weapons in the past, remember the Shredder with rayscaling before they tuned that gun down somewhat?

And as I preached before this misshap went off into production, it won't fix the (and didn't fix) the core issue with APB's gun and gameplay balance, and just as I said would happen, Obeyas, OBIR's and Carbines took its place. Now you could say STAR and FAR aswell, though those 2 weapons aren't as high in priority in high tier gameplay.

However it does make sense from a business perspective, LO needs to make money, pleasing the masses, even though they are factually wrong, is a "smart" move on their end, no matter what we say about it. 

And as a sidenote, although the shotgun changes are a good change, it also made the meta more stale, since as I preached as well, the PMG now finally took the crown as the De Facto CQC weapon. 

Edited by Tenginima

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10 hours ago, Flaws said:

N-TEC only seems like it's so much better than the FAR because the playerbase has decided that it is meta but if they had picked the FAR, we'd be having the same exact conversation about the FAR. I've seen enough top tier players go from N-TEC to FAR after the N-TEC nerf and they've been devastating N-TECs left and right. Since the N-TEC also had jump shooting capabilities, everyone kept whining about it and it is now gone. Had it been the FAR, the fate would've been the exact same as that weapon is perfectly capable of filling in the N-TEC's role 1 to 1.

 

The Star is more of a noob gun than a jack of all trades. It says it in the description of the gun but guess what the description of the weapon also says:

It's supposed to be the noob gun which allows you to more or less spray all you want with little consequences but it isn't supposed to excel at what the N-TEC does. The N-TEC excels at mid range but it ain't no training weapon that you can spray with at ranges like the Star can, even pre-nerf. It requires much more knowledge and feel for the game before you can use it efficently at what it's made for. There's a reason noobs tend to jump from Star to ATAC or any easier alternatives and they stray from the N-TEC. The N-TEC isn't nearly as easy as you think just because people have mastered it and are able to dominate with it consistently. They do the same with the FAR and recently even with the Star if they feel like it.

If you feel like APB is a balanced place I urge you to check out the Manic which has no bloom and is probably one of the most efficent jump shoot weapons that easily work at mid range as well as close range while full autoing. Take a look at how incredibly accurate the AMG weapons are, specifically the Euryale and Stheno which can full auto snipe people with ease unlike the Shaw which requires quick bursts, accuracy and extreme recoil control/management. Take a look at the OBIR's quickswitching mechanic (which I am not necessarily against but it is considered broken). The HVR's damage output like I already stated. The PMG which now largely dominates the OCA since the last OCA nerf. There are many examples of weapons that need changes but no one is talking about most of those because nothing slays noobs better than a good N-TEC.

I've used far and NTEC, I own almost every gun in the game. I do love the far, and it does feel nice to use, but it's also extremely similar to the star with the bloom recovery. The far is capable of doing well against ntec, even before the nerf, but you would still lose out due to that. I never complained about NTEC's jump shooting, but I do remember hearing complaints about it. Mine was only the BR.

 

While the star is meant to be a training gun, also note that the best pistol is also the starter pistol. Just because something in APB is starter, doesn't mean that its not supposed to be viable/good. We saw that especially after they buffed the star to make it better in the AR category because it was completely shadowed by the NTEC. (It only took 4 years of complaints though) And by making the FBW the newbie pistol

 

APB is the most balanced it has been. Yes, I agree S1NA is a little out there, previously I called it balanced because they buffed the CQC weapons, however after they put the CQC weapons back to near their original states. (.7 OCA TTK, ETC) I feel that it is a little too strong now. Probably could use with a slight nerf to jump shooting for a first. If it's too overbearing still, increase max bloom slightly.

 

I've used the AMG and Shaw, honestly the full auto snipe is more of a lucky gimmick imo. I've managed it a few times but it's always been luck. I tend to burst/tap fire it really fast at range to make it a little more manageable.

 

PMG has always been borderline since it got buffed, I wouldn't know where to begin on it since when I use it its either lucky RNG or can't hit the broad side of a barn.

 

Like I said, I feel the game is in the most balanced state it's ever been. I didn't say it's entirely balanced, there are still minor changes that can be done to a few weapons to buff, and to slightly nerf things without making them underpowered and overpowered.

 

Merged.

 

13 hours ago, Solamente said:

the star isn't really a jack of all trades nor should it be imo

 

its a noob gun meant to allow players with little understanding of apb mechanics to still spray and pray to the occasional cqc victory, the far is a better contender for a true jack of all trades - accuracy and ttk giving it the flexibility to be a threat at pretty much any range below 60m without actually excelling anywhere

 

i've personally never understood the desire to handicap the ntec at range, since that's always where it was intended to excel, as the f2p long range alternative to the close range focused star

"A jack-of-all-trades in its class, the Somatic Tactical Assault Rifle works best at short to middle ranges. While not the most accurate of rifles, the STAR 556 can fire fully-automatic without extreme loss of precision, making it a useful training weapon."

 

They made FAR long after, when it first came out it was seen as a hybrid between ntec and star, however star got buffed to be on par with it bloom recovery wise since then.

 

My issue with the NTEC was the "logic" that reducing its bloom recovery slightly would effect it at range, to give a little more space for the obeya and obir, lessening the difference between it and say the STAR and FAR at range, while still giving it an edge at range. I always felt it had been too versatile from cqc to mid, and it needed one or the other reduced, and I would have rather not touched its CQC abilities because then it'd be near "useless" in cqc against other weapons (which is what we see now currently). I didn't want the NTEC to be as versatile as it was, however I still wanted it to be capable in CQC and mid, just not as much of a "must pick" in comparison to star/far and obeya.

14 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

I hate to bring this up, but Ive never been a fan of the FAR STAR comparison

 

Base accuracy is the same, however they have different shot modifier caps, different marksman modifiers, different reload times, different mag sizes, different refire rates, and of course different ttk's

 

It's because the bloom recovery for both is the same. They both handle and feel extremely similar despite their differences. FAR used to be considered a STAR/NTEC hybrid, but they buffed the star's bloom recovery and it just ended up that they felt about the same so people say that.

 

Merged.

 

5 hours ago, Tenginima said:

It was, as expected over nerfed, especially if you consider how LO has gone about buffing weapons in the past, remember the Shredder with rayscaling before they tuned that gun down somewhat?

And as I preached before this misshap went off into production, it won't fix the (and didn't fix) the core issue with APB's gun and gameplay balance, and just as I said would happen, Obeyas, OBIR's and Carbines took its place. Now you could say STAR and FAR aswell, though those 2 weapons aren't as high in priority in high tier gameplay.

However it does make sense from a business perspective, LO needs to make money, pleasing the masses, even though they are factually wrong, is a "smart" move on their end, no matter what we say about it. 

And as a sidenote, although the shotgun changes are a good change, it also made the meta more stale, since as I preached as well, the PMG now finally took the crown as the De Facto CQC weapon. 

It's always been a tossup between pmg and shotguns though since the PMG got buffed years ago. OCA is an easy weapon to use (I prefer it over the pmg's recoil by far), but 5 shots often matter damage/tag wise moreso than 8.

Edited by Noob_Guardian
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On 3/12/2020 at 4:59 PM, Noob_Guardian said:

I've used far and NTEC, I own almost every gun in the game. I do love the far, and it does feel nice to use, but it's also extremely similar to the star with the bloom recovery. The far is capable of doing well against ntec, even before the nerf, but you would still lose out due to that. I never complained about NTEC's jump shooting, but I do remember hearing complaints about it. Mine was only the BR.

 

While the star is meant to be a training gun, also note that the best pistol is also the starter pistol. Just because something in APB is starter, doesn't mean that its not supposed to be viable/good. We saw that especially after they buffed the star to make it better in the AR category because it was completely shadowed by the NTEC. (It only took 4 years of complaints though) And by making the FBW the newbie pistol

 

APB is the most balanced it has been. Yes, I agree S1NA is a little out there, previously I called it balanced because they buffed the CQC weapons, however after they put the CQC weapons back to near their original states. (.7 OCA TTK, ETC) I feel that it is a little too strong now. Probably could use with a slight nerf to jump shooting for a first. If it's too overbearing still, increase max bloom slightly.

 

PMG has always been borderline since it got buffed, I wouldn't know where to begin on it since when I use it its either lucky RNG or can't hit the broad side of a barn.

 

Like I said, I feel the game is in the most balanced state it's ever been. I didn't say it's entirely balanced, there are still minor changes that can be done to a few weapons to buff, and to slightly nerf things without making them underpowered and overpowered.

 

Have to say that you've got some very well written and thought out comments regarding the current state of weapons. Refreshing as all hell to see around here. Anyways I'd have to say I agree with pretty much everything you've mentioned here.

 

Time for me to balance that out with some poorly thought out comments!

 

As for the S1NA they could always try an alternative approach to fixing it. I just don't think yet another gun getting yet another accuracy hit is necessarily the right call.  I'd rather they give it some sort of bizarre downside not well represented in the current lineup. Not saying it'd work but it would help keep a dividing line between it versus other guns. Something I've always felt to be lacking in the last couple of years in APB. As for what? I dunno. Already got a low kill to mag SMG, high accuracy one, one that requires scoping in, high mag count one, all-arounder (OCA), fancier all-arounder (PMG), etc.

 

Then again re-working guns is often a horrible idea in most cases. Lends itself to more problems than it solves. Not to mention requiring significantly more dev time. So perhaps they could just add a shot to kill and call it a day there. Moving on!

 

As for the PMG they could try some sort of far lesser take on it's original nerf during the early G1 days. Where it would increase in bloom as you fired for long durations perhaps. Though it'd have to be extremely minor, but it would help give the OCA a little more room to shine versus it overshadowing it a lot of the time as it does now? Dunno! Haven't thought that one out much.

 

That said I do agree that things are definitely in a relatively balanced state. Though there are a few outliers that could certainly use further tweaking to bring them up or down. Such as the sad, sad, sad, sad Norseman line of guns. Those things definitely need to be touched up.

 

 

 

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On 3/13/2020 at 8:40 PM, Genobee said:

 

Have to say that you've got some very well written and thought out comments regarding the current state of weapons. Refreshing as all hell to see around here. Anyways I'd have to say I agree with pretty much everything you've mentioned here.

 

Time for me to balance that out with some poorly thought out comments!

 

As for the S1NA they could always try an alternative approach to fixing it. I just don't think yet another gun getting yet another accuracy hit is necessarily the right call.  I'd rather they give it some sort of bizarre downside not well represented in the current lineup. Not saying it'd work but it would help keep a dividing line between it versus other guns. Something I've always felt to be lacking in the last couple of years in APB. As for what? I dunno. Already got a low kill to mag SMG, high accuracy one, one that requires scoping in, high mag count one, all-arounder (OCA), fancier all-arounder (PMG), etc.

 

Then again re-working guns is often a horrible idea in most cases. Lends itself to more problems than it solves. Not to mention requiring significantly more dev time. So perhaps they could just add a shot to kill and call it a day there. Moving on!

 

As for the PMG they could try some sort of far lesser take on it's original nerf during the early G1 days. Where it would increase in bloom as you fired for long durations perhaps. Though it'd have to be extremely minor, but it would help give the OCA a little more room to shine versus it overshadowing it a lot of the time as it does now? Dunno! Haven't thought that one out much.

 

That said I do agree that things are definitely in a relatively balanced state. Though there are a few outliers that could certainly use further tweaking to bring them up or down. Such as the sad, sad, sad, sad Norseman line of guns. Those things definitely need to be touched up.

 

 

 

Now that I think about it with the PMG, it could be a more mid range weapon (40m rather than 35) compared to the oca. Tighten its accuracy "slightly", increase ttk (.8?), and reduce the recoil slightly. I do agree that it's bloom is really easy to get kills with currently, even with cj but that's all i could think of would be to lessen the niche overlap and give it something slightly different. Would depend on the accuracy buff for how much to increase ttk. You don't want it exceptionally accurate at 40m, but you don't want it useless either.

 

I love norseman, it's just so urky that the recoil and the reload ones seem so meh. The accuracy gain one is nice because you then have good accuracy at mid and cqc, but the rest don't have that with the high ttk and it makes me cri every time.

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1 hour ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Now that I think about it with the PMG, it could be a more mid range weapon (40m rather than 35) compared to the oca. Tighten its accuracy "slightly", increase ttk (.8?), and reduce the recoil slightly. I do agree that it's bloom is really easy to get kills with currently, even with cj but that's all i could think of would be to lessen the niche overlap and give it something slightly different. Would depend on the accuracy buff for how much to increase ttk. You don't want it exceptionally accurate at 40m, but you don't want it useless either.

 

I love norseman, it's just so urky that the recoil and the reload ones seem so meh. The accuracy gain one is nice because you then have good accuracy at mid and cqc, but the rest don't have that with the high ttk and it makes me cri every time.

PMG already outperforms even the Whisper at 40m btw

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3 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

PMG already outperforms even the Whisper at 40m btw

I mean... true.

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On 3/10/2020 at 2:14 PM, TurboBRCrim said:

It’s still good, not op that’s all

+1

 

but Ursus op one kinda

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people thinking weapons need to be balanced and this and that is the reason all the weapons suck now. go play the game instead of posting on the forums ur all bad anyways 

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16 hours ago, safdfsgkjhdgsjkhs said:

people thinking weapons need to be balanced and this and that is the reason all the weapons suck now. go play the game instead of posting on the forums ur all bad anyways 

Yeah, how dare people want a... *ruffles through note cards* BALANCED GAME?!?!

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