The hell did you do to the bounty system

[VanilleKeks 737]

Just now, HawtGirl said:

It is fault but is it really such of an issue that people are trying to make it be?

It has been in the game for how long now? Do you really believe it made the game tons a lot better now? I doubt so. 

This system has been consistently critiqued and ranted over for close to a decade now. If you want to confirm, browse the history of this and the old forum. I haven't been able to play missions (because I'm on a really bad laptop) but I have heard from within the circles of players I know that this is a great change. I also think it's a great change and I hope for it to be present when I have my PC in a couple of months.

[Flaws 1033]

3 minutes ago, VanilleKeks said:

This system has been consistently critiqued and ranted over for close to a decade now. If you want to confirm, browse the history of this and the old forum. I haven't been able to play missions (because I'm on a really bad laptop) but I have heard from within the circles of players I know that this is a great change. I also think it's a great change and I hope for it to be present when I have my PC in a couple of months.

It better be, I personally know people who will quit the game for good outright, would this change be reverted. After years of suffering from it, finally doing the right thing and then reverting it would be catastrophic.

[PotatoeGirl 220]

2 minutes ago, VanilleKeks said:

This system has been consistently critiqued and ranted over for close to a decade now. If you want to confirm, browse the history of this and the old forum. I haven't been able to play missions (because I'm on a really bad laptop) but I have heard from within the circles of players I know that this is a great change. I also think it's a great change and I hope for it to be present when I have my PC in a couple of months.

Lets go back to overtime for analysis. Do you think it should be removed as well? Do you think it will make the game more fun? Even with overtime around I see people giving up half way through the mission. Is that how a game should play? having the opposition just giving up at the start when they see that they are outmatched? 

[VanilleKeks 737]

1 minute ago, HawtGirl said:

Lets go back to overtime for analysis. Do you think it should be removed as well? Do you think it will make the game more fun? Even with overtime around I see people giving up half way through the mission. Is that how a game should play? having the opposition just giving up at the start when they see that they are outmatched? 

People not playing against certain players has nothing to do with overtime. Overtime is a feature that was introduced to make those games that are really close in skill, more even. Overtime is not designed to be a crutch against enemies that severely outclass you and neither should it be. P5 and overtime were designed for different purposes so I don't think it's reasonable to discuss these in the same argument.

 

Coming from a ranked Overwatch perspective, I know that overtime can be really rewarding without destroying the experience of the team losing because of it. In fact in Overwatch, both teams can manipulate the spawns by paying attention to some game mechanics (which I'm not gonna go into detail here), which means that both teams can potentially gain from the Overtime feature.

 

I don't think it should be removed, in fact I think it should be improved upon. As an example, for some missions, capturing a point does not prevent the mission from ending, even if you are capturing all points at once because you just wiped the enemy. Fixes like that would make it even better. Overtime is a complimentary feature to decent matchmaking. In a world where you don't constantly go against people that are either way below or above your skill, it's a great addition that allows for rewarding clutch plays.

[mojical 160]

44 minutes ago, VanilleKeks said:

People not playing against certain players has nothing to do with overtime. Overtime is a feature that was introduced to make those games that are really close in skill, more even. Overtime is not designed to be a crutch against enemies that severely outclass you and neither should it be. 

 

Not only that, but it reduced the number of situations where one team could find itself without any options whatsoever to come back and win the mission, especially on Item Hold. It is not good game design if the mission keeps going on with one team already guaranteed to win. Therefore overtime was one of the better changes APB received over its lifetime in my opinion.

 

I also like the removal of P5/N5 since, besides unfair, it was way too situational for the "it helps new/struggling players" argument to make any sense. I have had missions which I have both won and lost due to the bounty system in the past (fortunately very few) and the negatives always outweighed the positives. Also, it made factions unbalanced as Criminals were able to prevent bounties by paying off, whereas Enforcers had to always be subjected to them. All in all, I consider this one of the best things LO has done for this game despite a rough start with weapon balancing, and it makes me look forward to more changes of this style in the future. 

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by Mojibaked

[Lign 361]

 

 

6 minutes ago, Mojibaked said:

 

Not only that, but it reduced the number of situations where one team could find itself without any options whatsoever to come back and win the mission, especially on Item Hold. It is not good game design if the mission keeps going on with one team already guaranteed to win. Therefore overtime was one of the better changes APB received over its lifetime in my opinion.

 

I also like the removal of P5/N5 since, besides unfair, it was way too situational for the "it helps new/struggling players" argument to make any sense. I have had missions which I have both won and lost due to the bounty system in the past (fortunately very few) and the negatives always outweighed the positives. Also, it made factions unbalanced as Criminals were able to prevent bounties by paying off, whereas Enforcers had to always be subjected to them. All in all, I consider this one of the best things LO has done for this game despite a rough start with weapon balancing, and it makes me look forward to more changes of this style in the future. 

 

In my opinion missions with final stages such as item hold and points hold should not have overtime but should not have timer for the stage as well. It should be ended when someone reaches enough points, 120/120 points for item hold stage. It would be the most balanced way, imo

[PotatoeGirl 220]

13 minutes ago, Mojibaked said:

Also, it made factions unbalanced as Criminals were able to prevent bounties by paying off

Lets be real here. No one does that.

[TheJellyGoo 343]

15 minutes ago, HawtGirl said:

Lets be real here. No one does that.

Literally every decent crim I know did it... sometimes as opportunists when close to contacts sometimes even making a detour just for that.

So let's be real you keep proving how unqualified you are to even realize the extent of the problem that the feature issued for good players.

 

19 minutes ago, Lign said:

In my opinion missions with final stages such as item hold and points hold should not have overtime but should not have timer for the stage as well. It should be ended when someone reaches enough points, 120/120 points for item hold stage. It would be the most balanced way, imo

Very open for exploits to just keep points neutral and farm kills or be an patootie in general.

I would even go as far and say add a little more time to most last stages. If it's a wash it will be over faster than the timer anyway and if it's a balanced mission more time to duke it out for both. 

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by TheJellyGoo

[Lign 361]

13 minutes ago, TheJellyGoo said:

 

Very open for exploits to just keep points neutral and farm kills or be an patootie in general.

I would even go as far and say add a little more time to most last stages. If it's a wash it will over faster anyway and if it's a balanced mission more time to duke it out. 

 

You might be right if the matchmaking gives bronzes against vets. But I would make these type of finals 10mins. Enough for many opportunities to retake. For now, it's stupid when you retake the item and opposition just needs to press f on it, they should be moved in the same situation that you were while retaking.

See, attacking is so hard if you play against the same skill level opposition. When I'm on defend side, I always predict, meet by spawns my enemies and don't forget there're a lot of imbalanced places that is so hard to attack without proper team play  (german fortress hello)

Edited February 7, 2020 by Lign

[watsoNN 27]

18 minutes ago, HawtGirl said:

Lets be real here. No one does that.

 

Who are you speaking for... your fellow silvers? Just because you don't do something doesn't mean no one else does lmao. Everyone I've played with or watched on crim that has a brain pays off their bounty  

[Lign 361]

1 minute ago, watsoNN said:

 

Who are you speaking for... your fellow silvers? Just because you don't do something doesn't mean no one else does lmao. Everyone I've played with or watched on crim that has a brain pays off their bounty  

I usually just kill random guy, happened often times when I killed the guy who was doing the point during overtime on their mission, lovely words were filling my pm afterwards 

[watsoNN 27]

1 minute ago, Lign said:

I usually just kill random guy, happened often times when I killed the guy who was doing the point during overtime on their mission, lovely words were filling my pm afterwards 

See i tend to not be that Ahole tho lmao. Thats why bounty needed to go  

Edited February 7, 2020 by watsoNN

[Lign 361]

Just now, watsoNN said:

See i tend to not be that pleasant fellow tho lmao. Thats why bounty needed to go  

Glad, LO has changed it

[watsoNN 27]

1 minute ago, Lign said:

Glad, LO has changed it

I think the majority of us are mate, only a small selection of edgelords that are salty

[PotatoeGirl 220]

6 minutes ago, watsoNN said:

Who are you speaking for... your fellow silvers? Just because you don't do something doesn't mean no one else does lmao. Everyone I've played with or watched on crim that has a brain pays off their bounty  

Yes, my fellow silvers knows a faster and free way to do that. 

[swft 356]

10 minutes ago, HawtGirl said:

Lets be real here. No one does that.

 

Just because you say it doesn't mean it's true. Also, I can't help but notice that you're out of touch with the game, at least, regarding the way it's played when you actually care to win.

 

Now, we can go back to your argument that the game isn't competitive, which is true, I'll give you that - but what if it could be? I can see APB getting a lot more patches that favor the game's health from a competitive side, even if it doesn't mean eSports tournaments, the game experience is going to be better for those who actually like playing to win and not just troll around aimlessly.

 

LO is doing a great job as of late by listening to feedback from few of the SPCTs that are voicing their opinions from a game balance perspective, so hopefully LO doesn't get distracted in comments such as the ones made by some of the people on this thread who completely disregard game healthiness in favor of gimmicks that don't belong in PvP shooters.

[PotatoeGirl 220]

4 minutes ago, swft said:

 

Just because you say it doesn't mean it's true. Also, I can't help but notice that you're out of touch with the game, at least, regarding the way it's played when you actually care to win.

 

Now, we can go back to your argument that the game isn't competitive, which is true, I'll give you that - but what if it could be? I can see APB getting a lot more patches that favor the game's health from a competitive side, even if it doesn't mean eSports tournaments, the game experience is going to be better for those who actually like playing to win and not just troll around aimlessly.

 

LO is doing a great job as of late by listening to feedback from few of the SPCTs that are voicing their opinions from a game balance perspective, so hopefully LO doesn't get distracted in comments such as the ones made by some of the people on this thread who completely disregard game healthiness in favor of gimmicks that don't belong in PvP shooters.

because surely the bounty system is the biggest issue and makes the game unplayable, right? 

[watsoNN 27]

13 minutes ago, HawtGirl said:

because surely the bounty system is the biggest issue and makes the game unplayable, right? 

Im sure you're trolling right now... I thought we discovered you're silver and you play bronze districts already? So you getting bounty doesn't phase you because when AND IF you get chased, its by a bunch of headless chickens that don't know what there doing.

 

To answer your question for the hundreth time, yes the game is unplayable with bounty (Im speaking for GOLD players in silver districts). You're an automatic target to your own faction or enemy faction and in missions, any death is crucial. You will understand one day, its taken you 6 years and you're still silver.

 

edit - one thing at a time needs to be changed and i feel bounty was a high priority on the list

Edited February 7, 2020 by watsoNN
edit

[CookiePuss 5378]

Protip: state your case as effectively as you can and move on

 

LO reads the forums so they will see your post, and you are unlikely to change another players mind through discourse anyways.

 

This advice will save you a lot of headaches.

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by CookiePuss

[swft 356]

26 minutes ago, HawtGirl said:

because surely the bounty system is the biggest issue and makes the game unplayable, right? 

 

Your short, not thought out answer, actually answered that question by itself. But, just in case it didn't, NO, it didn't make the game unplayable, it made it frustrating when getting P5/N5, so much that most people would just try to kill a member of the same faction from another nearby mission to get rid of it - this is great game design, isn't it?

 

Now, I know what you're gonna say, "but, but LO should've just made it so teamkilling would be impossible or very punishable", and to that I say: No, that's not even a band-aid to the actual problem, what they actually did is a band-aid, and one that's going to work just fine until they get rid of the Bounty system for good.

Edited February 7, 2020 by swft

[valdas001 22]

47 minutes ago, Lign said:

I usually just kill random guy, happened often times when I killed the guy who was doing the point during overtime on their mission, lovely words were filling my pm afterwards 

thats why they now ruined it because of killing own faction...

[TheJellyGoo 343]

58 minutes ago, Lign said:

You might be right if the matchmaking gives bronzes against vets. But I would make these type of finals 10mins. Enough for many opportunities to retake. For now, it's stupid when you retake the item and opposition just needs to press f on it, they should be moved in the same situation that you were while retaking.

See, attacking is so hard if you play against the same skill level opposition. When I'm on defend side, I always predict, meet by spawns my enemies and don't forget there're a lot of imbalanced places that is so hard to attack without proper team play  (german fortress hello)

Yes, like I said for that reason an increase in stage time equals more balance since one unfortunate spawn/crash into other players or w/e isn't instantly mission deciding.

 

 

[PotatoeGirl 220]

21 minutes ago, swft said:

 

Your short, not thought out answer, actually answered that question by itself. But, just in case it didn't, NO, it didn't make the game unplayable, it made it frustrating when getting P5/N5, so much that most people would just try to kill a member of the same faction from another nearby mission to get rid of it - this is great game design, isn't it?

 

Now, I know what you're gonna say, "but, but LO should've just made it so teamkilling would be impossible or very punishable", and to that I say: No, that's not even a band-aid to the actual problem, what they actually did is a band-aid, and one that's going to work just fine until they get rid of the Bounty system for good.

It is not good design but it takes away from the game by simply removing it. At least have it reworked to something else before getting rid of it entirely.

And speaking of teamkilling, I would say it is much more cancerous and pointless system (at least in this game in particular) than the bounty. 

[Noob_Guardian 417]

On 2/6/2020 at 4:18 PM, Flaws said:

Another one of these threads complaining about the now improved state of the bounty system. The bounty system is absolutely ATROCIOUS at it's core and that's an understatement. The LEAST they could do is what they did with the latest update to it and it is a very welcome and commendable change. APB is competitive at it's core, whether people like it or not and that should be obvious considering it's gameplay focus. The way everything is structured, the missions, the combat and so on is incredibly obviously competitive oriented but they added a few features that got in the way of that and the bounty system is one of those. GTA is where it's at if you want a casual and "fun"-oriented experience, if you can even call something so distasterous as the bounty system fun in any capacity. It was just there to punish you for being actually good at the game and nothing else, it added nothing of value to the actual game and only took away from the already RNG-ridden disaster this game currently is. There are so many other things that need to get removed or changed that casuals think are just fine to be in a game that clearly tried to be competitive since it's creation.

So competitive in fact that the Game's population is literally dead because of competitive mindset of high rank golds farming lowbies. Yes, that's sooo much worse than everyone being able to kill the actual problem.

On 2/7/2020 at 2:41 PM, VanilleKeks said:

People not playing against certain players has nothing to do with overtime. Overtime is a feature that was introduced to make those games that are really close in skill, more even. Overtime is not designed to be a crutch against enemies that severely outclass you and neither should it be. P5 and overtime were designed for different purposes so I don't think it's reasonable to discuss these in the same argument.

 

Coming from a ranked Overwatch perspective, I know that overtime can be really rewarding without destroying the experience of the team losing because of it. In fact in Overwatch, both teams can manipulate the spawns by paying attention to some game mechanics (which I'm not gonna go into detail here), which means that both teams can potentially gain from the Overtime feature.

 

I don't think it should be removed, in fact I think it should be improved upon. As an example, for some missions, capturing a point does not prevent the mission from ending, even if you are capturing all points at once because you just wiped the enemy. Fixes like that would make it even better. Overtime is a complimentary feature to decent matchmaking. In a world where you don't constantly go against people that are either way below or above your skill, it's a great addition that allows for rewarding clutch plays.

Overtime used to work, you can thank G1 for changing OT 1-2x and breaking it into its current mess.

On 2/7/2020 at 1:51 PM, Flaws said:

I will repeat it for you for the 300th time. The reason we have no players is the matchmaking, not the game mechanics. Game mechanics must be fair and consistent regardless of player numbers and features such as the bounty system compromise that fairness. If anything it's one of the repulsive features that drive new and old players alike away, who want to take the game seriously and in a competitive way. That and other RNG (random, left to complete chance, a roll of the dice) features that decide who wins and who loses. It really shouldn't be this difficult to understand.

New players pretty much NEVER get bounty though unless ramraiding. The only people legit crying are the vets/skilled players for getting killed and losing the obj hold because of it, new players can't care less because they'll never get it.

 

Merged.

 

On 2/7/2020 at 4:17 PM, swft said:

 

Just because you say it doesn't mean it's true. Also, I can't help but notice that you're out of touch with the game, at least, regarding the way it's played when you actually care to win.

 

Now, we can go back to your argument that the game isn't competitive, which is true, I'll give you that - but what if it could be? I can see APB getting a lot more patches that favor the game's health from a competitive side, even if it doesn't mean eSports tournaments, the game experience is going to be better for those who actually like playing to win and not just troll around aimlessly.

 

LO is doing a great job as of late by listening to feedback from few of the SPCTs that are voicing their opinions from a game balance perspective, so hopefully LO doesn't get distracted in comments such as the ones made by some of the people on this thread who completely disregard game healthiness in favor of gimmicks that don't belong in PvP shooters.

You talk about competitiveness in APB as if there's even a population left to support it after the competitive players ravaged the population to nothingness. But please, lets talk about making it even moooore competitive than playing like assholes and sitting 400m away from obj on the items for ez wins against newbies and exploiting broken game animations to move medium items at sprint speed. It'll never be competitive for as long as such things exist, but if you actually "fix" those issues you'd have a whole slew of baddies crying.

 

[Flaws 1033]

3 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

So competitive in fact that the Game's population is literally dead because of competitive mindset of high rank golds farming lowbies. Yes, that's sooo much worse than everyone being able to kill the actual problem.

New players pretty much NEVER get bounty though unless ramraiding. The only people legit crying are the vets/skilled players for getting killed and losing the obj hold because of it, new players can't care less because they'll never get it.

The game being dead has zip zero nothing to do with the competitive mindset of some of us. This seems to be the one of the main misconceptions I'm seeing on the forums. It's dead due to the horrendous matchmaking and that goes both ways. Competitive high tier players legit quit the game because they have no one good to fight. Most of you don't seem to understand that we do not have fun farming newbies. That is insanely boring to us. You don't need to have a competitive mindset to dominate new players (and make them quit) AT ALL and the amount of fake golds who dethreat to go play on bronze district and stomp newbies using remote det, atac, true ogre, explosive weapons and showstopper really are the definitive proof of that. If those dethreaters took the game seriously or competitively in any way, they would never dethreat because they would be thinking about beating better players, not stomping lowbies which gains them nothing in terms of skill, only in terms of ego which is not the definition of competitiveness or competition. Point me to one game where having tons of hours doesn't make a difference in skill even if you don't take it seriously one bit. It's called experience and it comes with or without tryharding, with or without the competitive mindset, with or without toxicity. 

 

Can we stop pretending that being competitive is a bad thing and that it is somehow killing APB? It is complete and utter BS made up by salty players who never really got out of silver for 10 years. And yes, we are "crying" about the broken, horrible game design of a mechanic that is the APB bounty system because we are good enough to find it's flaws. Back when APB and some of it's mechanics were designed and integrated, the devs did not think far ahead or simply did not know what would happen if players actually became very good at the game and mastered it and it's mechanics, not thinking far ahead about what the issues would be then and in the past 5-10 years, those problems are shining brighter than anything the moment someone decided to take it seriously.