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TheHidden-Tember

The hell did you do to the bounty system

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20 minutes ago, Kevkof said:

  

I didn't find this mentioned anywhere in here,  but this is just a temporary change. It should get more work to it at some point

 

And the current way it works is just that it doesn't allow Heat 5 (So both Notoriety and Prestige 5) players to shoot, or get shot by, anyone that is not in their mission

I still don't understand what was so urgent about it that it had to be disabled now. No one ever said it is a test or anything. 

It only removes from the experience instead of adding to it.

Edited by HawtGirl

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1 hour ago, Raichu said:

I'm so glad they fixed it.

me either, hope it will stay like that, I don't want any change to it. It's just a useless system

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5 hours ago, TheHidden-Tember said:

As I said before, games like CS GO and R6 have proper matchmaking BECAUSE they have thousands of players at any given time.

Can't do that in APB. Default matchmaking algorithms are bound to be bad if you only have 40 players on.
Also YES, fixing the matchmaking IS a good thing. It's just REALLY hard to do in the game's current pop state.

Just imagine that none of the teams can be balanced so the system tries to pit whoever can against each other.

doesn't help most people just sit in social anyways. at least on Jericho.

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The Bounty System is not tense after the 1500th time, hell even after the first 50 it probably isn't. It's not like many people these days actually go out of their way for bounties. I remember years ago it actually felt tense, but nowadays people have learned that it's just not worth their time.

 

It's not "Wow the entire District is going after me, I need to be careful!". The reality is:  That one dude with an HVR who just happened to have their own mission next to yours can potentially lose you a mission. Even when you consider it as a negative feedback loop, which it hardly even is, it's not a good design choice because it isn't consistently slowing down the good players. It's simply RNG. Most of the time it's just slightly annoying and the other times it can be absolutely mission ruining, which no one enjoys.

 

Imagine if I have a decent score in CSGO and now there's a random chance that my bomb explodes on me when planting/defusing. That's what the Bounty System feels like. The Bounty System was bad at what it was intended to do, so it needs to stay removed or be completely reworked.

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1 hour ago, VanilleKeks said:

The Bounty System is not tense after the 1500th time, hell even after the first 50 it probably isn't. It's not like many people these days actually go out of their way for bounties. I remember years ago it actually felt tense, but nowadays people have learned that it's just not worth their time.

 

It's not "Wow the entire District is going after me, I need to be careful!". The reality is:  That one dude with an HVR who just happened to have their own mission next to yours can potentially lose you a mission. Even when you consider it as a negative feedback loop, which it hardly even is, it's not a good design choice because it isn't consistently slowing down the good players. It's simply RNG. Most of the time it's just slightly annoying and the other times it can be absolutely mission ruining, which no one enjoys.

 

Imagine if I have a decent score in CSGO and now there's a random chance that my bomb explodes on me when planting/defusing. That's what the Bounty System feels like. The Bounty System was bad at what it was intended to do, so it needs to stay removed or be completely reworked.

 

I agree with some parts of what you say and the analogies are also valid but since the comparison with a PvP shooter doesn't fit with an Open World MMO I find hard to accept that last statement.

 

Yet I don't think the intention of the bounty system was to reward or punish a player, I believe it is just as simple as calling an APB on a subject, which honors the name of the game and adds an additional feature that could get you in trouble or make you be the problem to others yourself if you perform consistently for a long enough. So its true it is a bit random, is also true it could and should be reworked, but allowing a player to either randomly kill people or "join" any team as an extra player to help them win a mission is something that totally makes sense in this game and its environment., and one of the features I enjoy the most since it doesn't last too long and you have to be careful when you get it.

 

The only thing that is actually random, as you mentioned it, are the chances of having that HVR guy that loses your mission because you turn on bounty in the last stage while missioning in the same area, everything else is under our own skills at a given situation to get rid of the 5 stars or try to survive and avoid it.

 

What is the point of the intro videos when you join the game and rocket launchers and car bombs are exploding all around without allowing any interaction with these players you are not part of their mission?

 

Missions are important, totally, but the environment is also very important in regards of immersion. If I want a competitive game I'd play CS:GO, if I want immersion in an open world experience with missions designed to fight other players in all sort of different situations and scenarios I play APB. Adding a feature that could make me become a bounty hunter or a wanted fellow ices the cake.

Is not that I love the bounty system but neither do I hate it at all, that's why I feel these arguments coming from glorified high skill players are not always valid if they can't consider design aspects of this game that they don't like but many others do as part of the deal.

Many people used to play the game without complaining so much, now the remaining ones always wants something to change as if their perspective was the only one valid and the rest of this game population should quit, as they indeed did.

Regards.

 

 

Edited by Salvick
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11 hours ago, Lign said:

Why should I be punished for being good?

to be fair golds in bronze are not "good" nor are they "good"

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here's my take on it:

When you play good, you're rewarded with death
And when you play bad, you're rewarded with less rewards.

Doesn't that seem a bit counter intuitive ?

 

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Bounty right now makes sense.I dont have to worry that im gonna get killed from a random player during my mission

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11 hours ago, Salvick said:

 

 - -

 

 

I think the problem is that people see this as a primarily open world experience, when in reality it is a shooter with open world elements. This distinction is important to point out, because I believe it to be the reason that a lot of new players quit the game very fast because of this misconception.

 

The core gameplay loop is always a shooter. Sure you can interact with and see players on the entire map, but you're mostly just directly affecting people that are your enemies, apart from the occasional car crash with some other player(or if you actively grief, I guess). You can do ramraiding, mugging, turning in vehicles or hunting bounties, but you can tell from the fact that these system are not fleshed out and not worth your time, that it wasn't the focus of the developer.

 

Social is also just essentially a separated skin store, where you can chat. You go to social, "craft" a nice skin for you, your car or add some music, and then you go back to a separate instance to shoot people. APB is only an MMO by definition, in reality it's not as black and white. It doesn't offer nearly as much of freedom as you think at the start. I hate the comparison, but in GTA Online you can do a lot more stuff than just shooting other players or stealing stuff.

 

APB needs to be marketed as a shooter with an open world setting. Marketing it as this cops and robbers MMO has been attracting the wrong kind of crowd. The crowd which doesn't like competitive shooters. While APB is certainly not ready for a competitive scene, it is competitive by nature because it is a PVP shooter. 

 

Getting back on topic, the bounty system is not something I dislike the concept of. It's just not enjoyable in its current state. Yes, it is a problem that is more annoying to high tier players than the average player, but does that make it ok? No. Since you didn't like the comparison to an FPS, lets go with one from an MMO. If I grind my patootie off getting decent gear and mastering my abilities in an MMO, nobody is gonna punish me for that, in fact it's the opposite. So why should I be punished in this "MMO"?

 

Punishing people for being good is NEVER a good idea. What if you (not you specifically Salvick, I'm shouting into the room here) find a game and it turns out you're really good at it? You wouldn't like it at all if something tried to slow your progress on purpose. I can guarantee you that.

Edited by VanilleKeks
Clarification
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11 minutes ago, VanilleKeks said:

-snip-

Well put. Largley what I've been getting at.

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In the end you should look more at it as a balance mechanic and not as something that slows you down.

However one could argue it should be reset after every mission, so you don't get it constantly or in general be harder to obtain.

Or.. You shouldn't obtain it by kills, but doing stuff in the world like: ram raiding, arresting, hunting bounties, etc. In that case people who are looking for a challange can obtain it willingly while having a boost to their cash income. 

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34 minutes ago, VanilleKeks said:

Punishing people for being good is NEVER a good idea. What if you (not you specifically Salvick, I'm shouting into the room here) find a game and it turns out you're really good at it? You wouldn't like it at all if something tried to slow your progress on purpose. I can guarantee you that.

Considering mostly veterans have left to play, I would say that statement is completely false. 

 

What happens now is making the game favoring the veterans even more by removing the bounty system when is not needed and just scaring new players away when the game desperately needs more players. 

 

I am not saying the vets should be neglected but making the game even easier for them is not the way to go.

Edited by HawtGirl
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18 minutes ago, HawtGirl said:

Considering mostly veterans have left to play, I would say that statement is completely false. 

 

What happens now is making the game favoring the veterans even more by removing the bounty system when is not needed and just scaring new players away when the game desperately needs more players. 

 

I am not saying the vets should be neglected but making the game even easier for them is not the way to go.

When did I mention veterans? Good players don't have to be veterans. Also the change is making it easier for everyone. By how much is determined by skill. No one gets a harder game from this change. Quit acting like you'll lose a lot more missions now because your enemy can't be killed by out of missions anymore. If the outcome of your missions is consistently decided by this gimmick of a system, you have other problems to focus on. The bounty system is either useless or completely unfair, that is part of it being badly designed. If you really like the bounty system, advocate for a rework and quit protesting this change.

Edited by VanilleKeks
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14 minutes ago, HawtGirl said:

Considering mostly veterans have left to play, I would say that statement is completely false. 

 

What happens now is making the game favoring the veterans even more by removing the bounty system when is not needed and just scaring new players away when the game desperately needs more players. 

 

I am not saying the vets should be neglected but making the game even easier for them is not the way to go.

I will repeat it for you for the 300th time. The reason we have no players is the matchmaking, not the game mechanics. Game mechanics must be fair and consistent regardless of player numbers and features such as the bounty system compromise that fairness. If anything it's one of the repulsive features that drive new and old players alike away, who want to take the game seriously and in a competitive way. That and other RNG (random, left to complete chance, a roll of the dice) features that decide who wins and who loses. It really shouldn't be this difficult to understand.

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13 minutes ago, VanilleKeks said:

Quit acting like you'll lose a lot more missions now because your enemy can't be killed by out of missions anymore.

This works both ways, you know. I can say the same about everyone who is complaining about it. It won't make you lose more missions if you get bounty once in a while. If you are good enough, it shouldn't be a deciding point. 

12 minutes ago, Flaws said:

Game mechanics must be fair and consistent regardless of player numbers and features such as the bounty system compromise that fairness.

It is not less fair than overtime.

 

It is there to give the other team a CHANCE for winning. It doesn't guarantee win though.

 

For crying out loud even games like OW that "tries" to be an esport has a pity system. 

Edited by HawtGirl

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Just now, HawtGirl said:

This works both ways, you know. I can say the same about everyone who is complaining about it. It won't make you lose more missions if you get bounty once in a while. If you are good, enough you shouldn't be a deciding point. 

It doesn't go both ways. The difference is that for the person being bounty it only has a negative impact (Don't come with that negligible cash/standing increase) and for the guy that is against the bounty player, it only has positive effects. You get wall hacks and a chance that some schmuck kills your enemy, and the bounty player gets an almost unnoticeable increase in rewards. On what planet is that fair?

 

The problem isn't so much the total amount of missions won/lost because of the bounty system, but the fact that it is completely one-sided, with one side getting all the benefits. Crims can at least pay off for some cash and lower the amount of times they get bounty by a lot, but enforcers? Well good luck. Also, I think you severely underestimate how often good (especially good enforcers) players get bounty. It is more than enough to be frustrating. If I got bounty once every 3 hours I wouldn't mind at all.

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12 minutes ago, HawtGirl said:

This works both ways, you know. I can say the same about everyone who is complaining about it. It won't make you lose more missions if you get bounty once in a while. If you are good, enough you shouldn't be a deciding point. 

It is not less fair than overtime.

 

It is there to give the other team a chance for winning.

You keep repeating the same things over and over without even trying to read into what others are writing. I am beginning to get exhausted from these forums and some of the people on them.

 

One last time, just because someone is good does not mean that they should have to deal with such massive disadvantages exactly due to the reason that they put effort and time into it. For some bizzare, incoherent reason you believe that being good means that you can suddenly handle the entire enemy team seeing you on the map at all times, while also taking damage from players out of mission (who also see you on the map at all times) who are likely going to kill you and ruin the entire competitive experience of the game, more often than not steering the result of a mission drastically. Not because the player isn't good enough but because the game has terrible designs that trip over the comeptitiveness. Try to apply your "logic" to any other shooter and find the mistake in your understanding.

 

Also, teams that cannot compete should not be given "free chances" because that's not how anything competitive works. Overtime is also controversial and I believe it should also be scrapped eventually with mission reworks. The loser loses, the winner wins and that's where it ends.  You don't get better by having the game hold your hand, you get better by losing over and over and learning from your mistakes. Seeing other players do it better, not have the game give you a "second chance" and "balance things out" when you're worse than the enemy team.

 

Edit: Getting bounty EVERY single mission (yes, EVERY), at least ONCE, is not "once in a while".

Edited by Flaws

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5 minutes ago, VanilleKeks said:

It doesn't go both ways. The difference is that for the person being bounty it only has a negative impact (Don't come with that negligible cash/standing increase) and for the guy that is against the bounty player, it only has positive effects. You get wall hacks and a chance that some schmuck kills your enemy, and the bounty player gets an almost unnoticeable increase in rewards. On what planet is that fair?

 

The problem isn't so much the total amount of missions won/lost because of the bounty system, but the fact that it is completely one-sided, with one side getting all the benefits. Crims can at least pay off for some cash and lower the amount of times they get bounty by a lot, but enforcers? Well good luck. Also, I think you severely underestimate how often good (especially good enforcers) players get bounty. It is more than enough to be frustrating. If I got bounty once every 3 hours I wouldn't mind at all.

That is how pity systems in games works. They may not be fair but are there to improve the overall game experience and to compensate for faulty matchmaking (when it is bad or when players of the same skill can't be found)

 

2 minutes ago, Flaws said:

You keep repeating the same things over and over without even trying to read into what others are writing.

You too.

Edited by HawtGirl

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1 minute ago, HawtGirl said:

You too.

Not at all. I understand your logic and I understand exactly where you are coming from and I am explaining exactly why it's wrong, while you just ignore 5 of my posts that prove you wrong with hard facts and logic and keep typing up the same crap from before lol.

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6 minutes ago, HawtGirl said:

That is how pity systems in games works. They may not be fair but are there to improve the overall game experience and to compensate for faulty matchmaking (when it is bad or when players of the same skill can't be found)

 

 

The point is that the Bounty System is bad at what it's supposed to do. It neither slows down or helps any players consistently. Which just makes it frustrating. If we had a pity system (which we shouldn't imo) that was a consistent challenge, I'm sure not as many people would mind.

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1 minute ago, Flaws said:

Not at all. I understand your logic and I understand exactly where you are coming from and I am explaining exactly why it's wrong, while you just ignore 5 of my posts that prove you wrong with hard facts and logic and keep typing up the same crap from before lol.

I have said already my opinion on the subject but you keep taking about this game as if you are on the finals of an esport tournament.

This is not how gaming works. 

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1 minute ago, HawtGirl said:

I have said already my opinion on the subject but you keep taking about this game as if you are on the finals of an esport tournament.

This is not how gaming works. 

From what I've gathered of you so far, you wouldn't know the first thing about how "gaming" works.

 

The only reason I am here, wasting my time and keystrokes on the forums is to make sure that LO don't listen to the wrong people, again.

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2 minutes ago, VanilleKeks said:

The point is that the Bounty System is bad at what it's supposed to do. It neither slows down or helps any players consistently. Which just makes it frustrating. If we had a pity system (which we shouldn't imo) that was a consistent challenge, I'm sure not as many people would mind.

It is fault but is it really such of an issue that people are trying to make it be?

It has been in the game for how long now? Do you really believe it made the game tons a lot better now? I doubt so. 

2 minutes ago, Flaws said:

 

The only reason I am here, wasting my time and keystrokes on the forums is to make sure that LO don't listen to the wrong people, again.

oof

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