Call for Shotgun Testing

[vsb 6171]

3 minutes ago, HawtGirl said:

I don't remember this line being there the first time. Was it added after?

no

 

its a little disingenuous imo, since the jt difference is 0-10jt per mission (action districts) vs 1-10jt per mission (testing districts)

 

test districts also allow any threat to cap put at 200jt per day, but i doubt anyone has ever hit that 

[nikitos5 51]

Add these changes to the live client pls

[mojical 160]

Nice to see the changes will be tested on Asylum @Sakebee, looking forward to that. 

 

On another note, would it be possible to slightly readjust the ACES SMG to be slightly less annoying to play? I'm talking about bringing its damage up to par with the ACES Rifle so it becomes a 14STK weapon. This could be done while lowering its firerate so it pretty much keeps its current TTK. Both weapons use the same platform and ammo and the Rifle has other distinct advantages such as range, so it would make sense that they do the same damage. This weapon is very seldom seen ingame and a small buff like this would help it. 

 

Here are the stat changes I would make:

 

ACES SMG

Damage: 70 -> 75 (14 STK)

Fire interval: 0.045 -> 0.048

 

 

[mattskoii 67]

I'd personally think the nfas/pmg need more a of a nerf as in a slight nerf in hard damage/range, And for the nfas more of a spread on the shell pallets, Oca never needed a nerf to begin with so that another thing that needs to be taken care of.

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by ɱɑƫƫʂϗᎧɨɨ™

[GhosT 1301]

I really don't understand why you guys absolutely want to experiment with shotguns.

 

Shotguns were the most balanced class in the game, except the shredder needing a tiny buff.

Why can't we just revert them?

[PoshDoll 93]

why not just force these changes to regular districts and fight clubs then do the balancing according to feedback? most people won't bother to test the changes unless it affects their c0mp3t1t1v3 matches.

 

and uh someone said it'd be better to roll the shotguns back to how they were in 2018, i'm with them.

[claude 223]

21 hours ago, Lign said:

I showed that vod just to show that we’re playing in prototype district. There were much more broadcasts. Basically, everyone who plays arranged thinks that jg is strong even on live. Buffing its ttk doesn’t make sense due to corner camping or car gameplay. Usually, if you push a corner without knowing that there’s jg sitting behind you barely even hit that guy for half hp before getting two shotted. Also, don’t forget about rng, you have to be so lucky to be able to minttk jg by oca or pmg. Just remember the moments when you faced jg. How often do you kill him before getting a 2nd shot from jg even if he doesn’t two shot you. 

Which is the entire point of making JG and CSG 3 shot, to increase the attackers ability to hit the shotgunner by forcing the shotgunner to be out of cover even more if they desire to reach the fastest TTK. You could still corner pop with the 3 shot JG, but you will take 33% longer to get the kill, making it much more difficult to play super defensively with it. I agree, the TTK shouldnt be changed at all, but increasing the fire rate and decreasing the damage makes total sense.

[Lign 361]

 

 

41 minutes ago, claude said:

Which is the entire point of making JG and CSG 3 shot, to increase the attackers ability to hit the shotgunner by forcing the shotgunner to be out of cover even more if they desire to reach the fastest TTK. You could still corner pop with the 3 shot JG, but you will take 33% longer to get the kill, making it much more difficult to play super defensively with it. I agree, the TTK shouldnt be changed at all, but increasing the fire rate and decreasing the damage makes total sense.

I know. I support this idea since matt told about it. But forum guys who don't play the game and just sit on forums thinks that shotguns undertuned currently. Literally, one of them wrote a post in suggestion to make jg 20m drop range. At the momen, it's so easy to land 2shots and corner pop with it, especially when they nerfed oca.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Lign

[Hexerin 1140]

8 hours ago, Speedz said:

The shotguns on those Test pages are still processing through rayscaling, but due to it being set to 1 (or 100%) it is not scaling anything.

The rayscaling stat on weapon pages is always shown if not 0.

Neat. They went the better path with this.

3 hours ago, GhosT said:

Shotguns were the most balanced class in the game

Yet you never saw them ingame prior to the introduction of rayscaling allowing for even the slightest bit of performance consistency. Yes, shotguns were overtuned... but that's why you have this little thing called "balance adjustment". Rather than completely reverting (the sledgehammer approach), they should've adjusted the stats to tone them down a bit.

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by Hexerin

[Noob_Guardian 417]

1 hour ago, Lign said:

 

 

I know. I support this idea since matt told about it. But forum guys who don't play the game and just sit on forums thinks that shotguns undertuned currently. Literally, one of them wrote a post in suggestion to make jg 20m drop range. At the momen, it's so easy to land 2shots and corner pop with it, especially when they nerfed oca.

all the did to the oca was revert its overbuff to my knowledge, why call it a nerf, it's a fix, because the OCA NEVER needed touched to begin with.

mind making prototype district like, fightclubs? It may end up with a lot more information than an empty normal district.

 

I know the G1 had pushed tests live once or twice to change them shortly after (with how the game pop is, pushing tests to fc may be a better measure imo.)

[Lign 361]

2 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

all the did to the oca was revert its overbuff to my knowledge, why call it a nerf, it's a fix, because the OCA NEVER needed touched to begin with.

It's a nerf because there's no point to play oca if you can play jg or pmg

[Noob_Guardian 417]

6 minutes ago, Lign said:

It's a nerf because there's no point to play oca if you can play jg or pmg

There's never been a point to play OCA when JG/CSG was meta, and oca vs pmg is fair game. The damage difference only matters when tagged/cleanup, though PMG could use a little harsher CJ2/3 effect.

 

That doesnt make it a "nerf" simply because other guns are better, unless you want to say every gun is nerfed because NTEC exists. xD

Edited January 17, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[Lign 361]

3 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

There's never been a point to play OCA when JG/CSG was meta, and oca vs pmg is fair game. The damage difference only matters when tagged/cleanup, though PMG could use a little harsher CJ2/3 effect.

 

That doesnt make it a "nerf" simply because other guns are better, unless you want to say every gun is nerfed because NTEC exists. xD

Ntec is easily beatable by oscar in mid range. The only reason why everyone using it is its utility and versatile. OCA is not versatile, with its accuracy its effective range is in range where jg can two shot. JG user always makes a 2nd shot no matter you're using cj on oca or not. Just try to remember how many times did you kill a jg user before he lands a 2nd shot

Edited January 17, 2020 by Lign

[vsb 6171]

1 hour ago, claude said:

making JG and CSG 3 shot

my issue with making pump shotguns 3stk is that it makes the entire weapon category play the same - why use a jg/csg (even at potentially .68s) when you can use a thumper with the same range and a lower ttk?

[Noob_Guardian 417]

4 minutes ago, Lign said:

Ntec is easily beatable by oscar in mid range. The only reason why everyone using it is its utility and versatile. OCA is not versatile, with its accuracy its effective range is in range where jg can two shot. JG user always makes a 2nd shot no matter you're using cj on oca or not. Just try to remember how many times did you kill a jg user before he lands a 2nd shot

the oca is effective far past the shotgun effective range though. OCA is fairly versatile and forgiving and can 8 shot up to 15-20m. I don't really get why you think it's complete trash, its really not and never has been.

 

If I don't miss a moving target/corner popper? Fairly often actually, but i guess you'd say that's besides the point. Which is also why shotguns are getting reworked... yet again,

[Lign 361]

6 minutes ago, Solamente said:

my issue with making pump shotguns 3stk is that it makes the entire weapon category play the same - why use a jg/csg (even at potentially .68s) when you can use a thumper with the same range and a lower ttk?

Thumper is a joke that needs a nerf as well. I can provide you a perfect example why it needs a nerf but mods will delete the clip because of forbidden config

[Noob_Guardian 417]

6 minutes ago, Solamente said:

my issue with making pump shotguns 3stk is that it makes the entire weapon category play the same - why use a jg/csg (even at potentially .68s) when you can use a thumper with the same range and a lower ttk?

thumper is a joker box weapon and is unique compared to the cj/csg. The thumper is FAR closer to a tapfire nfas with further range capability, than it is/would be jg/csg

[vsb 6171]

8 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

thumper is a joker box weapon and is unique compared to the cj/csg. The thumper is FAR closer to a tapfire nfas with further range capability, than it is/would be jg/csg

a 3stk shotgun with single shell reloading and a fast rof, what part of that doesn’t sound like a 3stk jg/csg with a .68s ttk

 

im not denying the thumper is similar to the nfas, that was exactly my point - if the jg/csg are going to be thumper clones and the thumper is already an nfas clone, where does that leave us in terms of gameplay variety?

 

hell even the shredder plays mostly the same, it just sucks 

 

pump shotguns moving to 3stk will just end up with everyone who has a $50 strife using that instead because it’s the only shotgun left that’s not a glorified nfas 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Solamente
typo, and can we fix the forums already this cloudflare bullshoot on every post is annoying af

[claude 223]

1 hour ago, Solamente said:

my issue with making pump shotguns 3stk is that it makes the entire weapon category play the same - why use a jg/csg (even at potentially .68s) when you can use a thumper with the same range and a lower ttk?

simple, scale the rof increase and damage reduction for the jg and csg and apply to thumper, and make the thumper 4stk

[Noob_Guardian 417]

1 hour ago, Solamente said:

a 3stk shotgun with single shell reloading and a fast rof, what part of that doesn’t sound like a 3stk jg/csg with a .68s ttk

 

im not denying the thumper is similar to the nfas, that was exactly my point - if the jg/csg are going to be thumper clones and the thumper is already an nfas clone, where does that leave us in terms of gameplay variety?

 

hell even the shredder plays mostly the same, it just sucks 

 

pump shotguns moving to 3stk will just end up with everyone who has a $50 strife using that instead because it’s the only shotgun left that’s not a glorified nfas 

 

 

if its "that" big of a deal to you, why not suggest making dow and nfas 4stk with the same ttk under these changes?

 

I enjoy the shredder but it's always been sort of like an auto slug shotgun imo so I play it kinda like a rifle. Strife itself has issues facing cqc weapons if if not extremely careful, if it was "that" strong people would have switched to it by now. Making 3stk isnt going to push everyone to run strife.

Edited January 17, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[vsb 6171]

8 minutes ago, claude said:

simple, scale the rof increase and damage reduction for the jg and csg and apply to thumper, and make the thumper 4stk

i don’t think that would actually differentiate the gameplay very much as you’d still be using 3stk and 4stk shotguns very similarly, although it would be amusing to see the thumper fire even faster than it already does

 

alternatively, what about lowering max damage close to 3stk (something like 525-550) and raising the ttk (between .7-.75s)?

 

id much rather keep the current pump shotgun playstyle and attempt to deal with the issues it causes than delete it altogether

[claude 223]

1 hour ago, Solamente said:

alternatively, what about lowering max damage close to 3stk (something like 525-550) and raising the ttk (between .7-.75s)?

 

id much rather keep the current pump shotgun playstyle and attempt to deal with the issues it causes than delete it altogether

yeah i mean, it would make the thumper kill slower than pumps, but for no real reason other than "it cant be too similar to the pump shotguns." If we were to keep the same TTK with CSG and JG, but make them both 3stk, and make these changes to the thumper, you'd pretty much be nerfing the thumper only because it would be too similar to the new JG and CSG. 

[Hexerin 1140]

2 hours ago, Solamente said:

(something like 525-550)

That would make shotguns 3 STK. Something you people keep ignoring is that shotguns have a spread, and in 99% of situations in actual gameplay you won't hit every pellet. Every missed pellet is a substantial amount of damage that adds up very quickly. There's a very good reason shotguns were basically non-existent prior to rayscaling, they were insanely inconsistent at the best of times.

 

Little Orbit's idea to revert the rayscaling and instead go the path of less pellet quantity is intriguing, and could help the problem in the same way. However, we still aren't seeing that in the current test environment, which leads me to believe that they scrapped the idea for reasons left unstated.

[CookiePuss 5378]

1 hour ago, Hexerin said:

 There's a very good reason shotguns were basically non-existent prior to rayscaling

Are we playing the same game?

 

 

[vsb 6171]

11 hours ago, Hexerin said:

That would make shotguns 3 STK. Something you people keep ignoring is that shotguns have a spread, and in 99% of situations in actual gameplay you won't hit every pellet. Every missed pellet is a substantial amount of damage that adds up very quickly. There's a very good reason shotguns were basically non-existent prior to rayscaling, they were insanely inconsistent at the best of times.

 

Little Orbit's idea to revert the rayscaling and instead go the path of less pellet quantity is intriguing, and could help the problem in the same way. However, we still aren't seeing that in the current test environment, which leads me to believe that they scrapped the idea for reasons left unstated.

my intent was to force shotguns to lose some easy 2 shot capability without removing corner popping as a viable defensive tactic when pushed, i think shotguns need to remain very dangerous at uber cqc range 

 

a low max damage shotgun would also force shotguns to be a more skill based weapon (no more ez kills from 3 grazes) and have increased vulnerability to ca3 and kevlar

 

im not sure where you were pre-rayscaling (perhaps not even playing at all?) but apb has gone through several different iterations of shotgun meta at this point, to say no one used them before rayscaling is a red flag you don’t understand apb imo 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Solamente
added stuff