Bronze district should be ashamed of itself, and why in god's name is LO doing nothing about it?

[Bishada8800 22]

17 hours ago, Mozie said:

So how should LO fix this problem?

Lock districts based on rank?

Ban dethreaters?

Disable dethreat?

 

Let's talk bout the solution.

In game character rank have little or nothing to do with player skill.

An elite gold player that have a R10 character will win 10 times out of 10 against a bronze skill player that have a R255 character and every legendary and ARMAS weapon.

 

Ban dethreaters? Yes. They destroy the regrowth of the game more than cheaters. A bronze beginner matched against a gold player in disguise will 100% think the gold player is cheating (even if 100% legit). Due to player skill difference alone. He will leave the game. Tell everyone to not start playing APB. Fuel the rumor that APB is riddled with cheaters. Dethreaters hurt the game more than cheaters. Dethreating need to be punished. Hard.

 

Disable dethreat? Threat behind the curtains is a zero sum sliding scale (IIRC it have 300 unique levels in a normal distribution bell curve). If you ever only gained threat then everyone would eventually end up with very high threat. Would not work. What they could do, however, and i suggested this else where in this very thread, is to make it harder and more time consuming to dethrat and once you become gold in silver district they disable the ready button so you can't continue playing there for hours at end. Also reward players for playing with gold threat. Perhaps some bonus EXP and APB$ (but bored players with maxed out characters doesn't really need either of them). Perhaps grant 1 bonus JT for each mission you win while being a gold player. Whip as well as Carrot. Give people a reason to stay gold. Make it easy to do the right thing. Remove reasons to dethreat. Make it hard to do the wrong thing.

Merged.
 

16 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Face off in silver district as a new player

Silver district is currently the High threat district where all elite gold players are.

A new player should exclusively play in the green (which is the low threat district) or bronze (which is the medium threat district) district.

 

LO should also:

 

EITHER

 

Rename Green district to Low threat (and make it default to green and bronze players) 

Rename Bronze district to Medium threat (and make it default to silver players)

Rename Silver district  to High threat (and make it default to gold players)

Delete gold district

 

OR 

 

Delete green district.

Limit silver players to silver (and gold) district.

Limit gold players to gold district.

[BlueB 35]

31 minutes ago, Vasco14 said:

I think this problem can be solved by creating a limit rank district, for e.g only player with  rank 9-50(green/bronze/silver) can play there,or if the player have a KDR lower than 0.35 he will just have access to bronze district.

It would be the same... people will spam new characters just ro crap over starters.

How is it solved? I told it many times already... the game needs to change players pathetic mindset and motivate them to get good and get higher rank and items, and that means NOT REWARDING TRASH THAT DESERVE NOTHING.

 

This is a pvp game, you want to enjoy it? Get good. 

You cant get good good enough but still love apb? look for a method... like business to get expensive weaponry (that would be powerful legendaries, buff them), frienship, art, play support... w/e.

Apb needs investment, a lot of it.

Edited July 15, 2019 by BlueB

[CookiePuss 5379]

2 minutes ago, Glaciers said:

as of the last info g1 gave us on the threat system, the larger the gap between two opponents threats the less a higher threat player will “upthreat” from winning or the more they’ll dethreat from losing 

 

so even a lower win rate in silver should theoretically increase threat faster and increase threat higher than a higher win rate in bronze 

 

 

If you were to perform equally and well in both bronze and silver then yes you should threat up faster in silver. 

 

For anyone wondering, threat calculation looks something like this:

 

 

And for anyone wondering, threat distribution looks something like this:

 

As should be obvious to anyone who plays APB, the largest group threat wise are silvers, and this is true in spite of the suggestion that gold is easy to achieve. 

1 hour ago, wHisHi said:

I thought Im cool with my 2000 hours

Boss, be my mentor

You are gonna want that 10k+ hour crowd for that. 

[VickyFox 353]

On 7/14/2019 at 1:02 PM, Bishada8800 said:

Carrot on a stick:

Perhaps consider giving gold players some sort of advantage, such as faster XP and APB$ per mission or maybe 1 JT  per mission or whatever.

Whip:

At the very least make it harder / more time consuming to dethreat and disable "ready" ("K") if you become gold in medium threat district or if you become silver in a low threat district.

 

I don't think you realise how little veteran players would care for a bonus.

The richest players in game get more of a reward for what exactly? bare in mind this will knock on the marketplace making things more expensive for the newer players

 

Again with the hard approach to prevent golds joining, If a veteran wants to stomp on new players and troll then I don't doubt they'd be patient enough to take the 10 to 20 minutes to make a new account.

Cheaters do it when they get banned.

 

Separating threats with different districts is what caused dethreating in the first place!

[Microtea 23]

2 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Imagine thinking fight club has anything to do with threat. 

You were implying that I stomp noobs all the day (you probably meant that I play and sweat in bronze district) which is not true cause I play fight club only.

2 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Also, since you asked I have nearly 6,000 hours in APB. And the number is way higher for post count, my first forum account dates back to 2014-2015. 

Weird flex but ok.

2 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

I don't really know what to say about the FBW thing. I didn't want to go into bronze and just shit on people, but I also didn't want to do nothing and ruin the experience for anyone grouped with me. It was important to me that I try to find a balance. 

There is an easy way to "test" bronze district fairly, without hurting anyone but yourself. You need a friend and few hours of free time.

Make new acc - farm JT and unlock blowtorch in social district - go to bronze district - make closed group so only you and your friend(s) will participate in mission - have fun with blowtorches

2 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Also, I would love to watch you stream blowtorch only... You know just to see how fair it is. 

I would love it too. Too bad I can't force myself to even launch APB. Last few times I had very negative experience, I did not get rekt, get mad or something like that, it was an other thing, I will write about it in the end.

2 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Cheating has always existed in APB. Dethreating has not, all you have to do is match that with pop. 

High amount of cheaters and threat segregation caused massive dethreating.

2 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

If you don't think it's easier to attain gold in bronze vs silver district, well I guess thats your right. Seems highly counterintuitive though. 

Gold is absurdly easy not just attain but maintain in any district.

2 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

I'm not sure why you equate some players not being banned with no one being banned, but again that's your right. 

If some players are not banned for SO long time, what the? I play fc and meet some cheaters, few months later I log in during event, see same guys playing, few months later I browse twitch clips and they are still cheating and even streaming it. It's been nearly a year since I met them first time.
ME LIKE: k, aNtIcHeAt iS wOrKiNg.

[VickyFox 353]

1 hour ago, BlueB said:

This is a pvp game, you want to enjoy it? Get good. 

Did you even read the original post?

Players that are competent and have experience with other shooter games struggled to get off the ground with APB.

 

1 hour ago, BlueB said:

You cant get good good enough but still love apb?

I'm pretty bad at Rainbow 6 Siege but that doesn't mean can't respect and enjoy the Pro League!

 

It is that kind of mentality that is belittling to other players and the problem which is so frequently complained about.

I was going to say that your post was one of the worst approaches to the problem...

It is elitist, judgemental people like you that give this community a reputation of being toxic.

 

 

 

@CookiePuss I take back what I said earlier.

Shameless maybe, but maybe there is a time and place to call out those that are in our community making things worse!

Edited July 15, 2019 by VickyFox

[Tigrix 308]

Why don't gold threat players get immediately removed from bronze districts when they re-gain gold threat?

Surely that's an easy fix, even if it's a bandaid, it's still a lot better than the current situation.

Problem atm is, people de-threat and join bronze, then after a few games they re-gain gold, but they can still remain there entire day/night playing until they log off...

[gordIsMyName 104]

what if we melt down all the gold, silver and bronze and invest it into getting the engine upgrade?

1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

For anyone wondering, threat calculation looks something like this:

 

 

this is actually the same formula used in calculating the moon landing and in the preparation of twinkies...

[Hexerin 1140]

3 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

If that's true, then it's the threat you deserve. 

Not how that works anymore, though. The system is inflated to hell thanks to Gamersfirst/Reloaded changing the scale so that the upper like 40% of players are gold. Don't know the exact percentage they targeted (don't remember if it was even ever stated specifically), just know that the intent was to make gold piss-easy to get so that golds would have easier time finding opp.

 

If Little Orbit were to revert Gamersfirst/Reloaded's stupidity so that the threat scale was in a functionally sound state again, I'd likely never breach gold again (unless I started taking the game seriously again, of course). Gold used to actually be something you could wear with some measure of pride (although it wasn't until they added revealed numbering that you could truly brag about it, assuming you were G5+). Miss those days...

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by Hexerin

[VickyFox 353]

5 minutes ago, Tigrix said:

Why don't gold threat players get immediately removed from bronze districts when they re-gain gold threat?

Surely that's an easy fix, even if it's a bandaid, it's still a lot better than the current situation.

 Problem atm is, people de-threat and join bronze, then after a few games they re-gain gold, but they can still remain there entire day/night playing until they log off...

-It is a bandaid fix but obviously all veterans don't want it because it is alienating to the veteran that are playing fair.

-New players would not want to team up with higher threat player friends if it meant they'd have to play on the higher threat district.

-Experience which could be shared from veteran players acting as mentors are lost

-This bandaid fix can be circumnavigated by just creating a completely new account like banned hackers would do.

-I think the biggest negative that affects everyone is that this will divide the population numbers of districts leaving less opponents to play against and giving the perception that the game is more dead than it actually is.

 

As a temporary move, it seems a bit harsh and hasty but as a temporary move, I hate to say it would in theory work.

If no more new players try and stay long enough with APB, then this could make even more players leave with a smaller pool of opponents. It could cause population numbers to crash to the point of no return.

[Mozie 54]

2 hours ago, Bishada8800 said:

I like pie

So I didnt really suggest any of them I just tried sway the discussion.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Mozie
find a solution go fc if you need to battle someone.

[BlueB 35]

1 hour ago, VickyFox said:

Did you even read the original post?

Players that are competent and have experience with other shooter games struggled to get off the ground with APB.

 

I'm pretty bad at Rainbow 6 Siege but that doesn't mean can't respect and enjoy the Pro League!

 

It is that kind of mentality that is belittling to other players and the problem which is so frequently complained about.

I was going to say that your post was one of the worst approaches to the problem...

It is elitist, judgemental people like you that give this community a reputation of being toxic.

 

 

 

@CookiePuss I take back what I said earlier.

Shameless maybe, but maybe there is a time and place to call out those that are in our community making things worse!

Take it as you will, thats how pvp games are played, You get good or you wont enjoy it.

 

Dislike all you want, its fact.

Edited July 15, 2019 by BlueB

[VickyFox 353]

Just now, BlueB said:

Take it as you will, thats how pvp games are played, You get good or you wont enjoy it.

 

Dislike all you want, its fact.

Who are you to tell others how to enjoy their games, APB is an open world multiplayer.

This is not Call of Duty where Kill/Death Ratios is all that matters.

 

The mentality you presented is unsporting, belittling and dismissing of a completely valid issue that is hindering the growth of APB in player numbers.

If the experience of the new players shouldn't matter to veteran players, then the low population numbers and lack of uptake of the game should be of concern.

[BlueB 35]

Edit it doesnt matter how many games you try to turn your safe space vikyfox, you will keep sinking all of them until you deal with your personal problems about learning to play.

 

Keep on reporting me too.

 

Edit: is not hard to understand that it doesnt matter how much u shot a game to make it enjoyable for every skill level... higher skill level players will bash u to shame either way, specially in pvp games.

 

DEAL.WITH.IT.

Edited July 15, 2019 by BlueB

[MrChan 337]

11 minutes ago, BlueB said:

You get good or you wont enjoy it.

Most people who try APB are opting for the latter and leaving. As long as that keeps happening, players who stop playing won't be replaced by new ones and the game will die.

 

Doesn't matter a toss if newbies should be able to 'get good' by being stomped into the ground by vets or not, if they're not staying the population will eventually reach the point of it being uneconomic to run the game. Assuming it hasn't done so already.

Edited July 15, 2019 by MrChan

[BlueB 35]

Repeat after me: You cant change player skill. 

This ghost will haunt you forever until you put effort into learning to play games.

[CookiePuss 5379]

14 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

 the upper like 40% of players are gold.

This simply is not true. 

[BlueB 35]

4 minutes ago, MrChan said:

Most people who try APB are opting for the latter and leaving. As long as that keeps happening, players who stop playing won't be replaced by new ones and the game will die.

 

Doesn't matter a toss if newbies should be able to 'get good' by being stomped into the ground by vets or not, if they're not staying the population will eventually reach the point of it being uneconomic to run the game. Assuming it hasn't done so already.

They didnt like the game good enough, it simply means that.

Do you think im lying when i say i got rekt really hard when i started? Or getting tutorials or some shit that been implemented now to help noobs? I had to ask in chat when i didnt even know that you could aks in /d, investigate myself, touch this and that, etc. Do you think i didnt get golds when i was bronzie? I was amazed how they played and i just wanted to be like them, learn from them, get oposed against them to learn more.

 

Get along knowing that now everyone wants everything easy, but you dont get skill easy...

[VickyFox 353]

2 minutes ago, BlueB said:

Repeat after me: You cant change player skill. 

This ghost will haunt you forever until you put effort into learning to play games.

Lets just clarify something, I DO NOT WANT to have players hard locked and restricted to their own district threat levels.

There is the common saying "Practice makes perfect" I agree with this belief as these kids will indeed become the perfect bronze!

To become better one has to go against better opponents and learn from them and one's own mistakes.

Some lessons are best learnt the hard way.

I also believe that skills can be learnt, but not always.

This doesn't mean every lesson has to be learn the hard way though, give the newcomes a chance.

 

 

At the end of the day, I do have a Max rank gold threat cop on Jericho.

The difference between me and you is how I conduct myself, Just because I am polite and considerate doesn't mean I won't go easy on an opponent.

 

I think you really are needing to reconsider just who you think you are.

[CookiePuss 5379]

4 minutes ago, BlueB said:

They didnt like the game good enough, it simply means that.

 

Yes, their experience wasn't enjoyable enough to stay. 

This is the problem we are addressing in the hopes of keeping the game from shutting down. 

 

[BlueB 35]

12 hours ago, VickyFox said:

Lets just clarify something, I DO NOT WANT to have players hard locked and restricted to their own district threat levels.

There is the common saying "Practice makes perfect" I agree with this belief as these kids will indeed become the perfect bronze!

To become better one has to go against better opponents and learn from them and one's own mistakes.

Some lessons are best learnt the hard way.

I also believe that skills can be learnt, but not always.

This doesn't mean every lesson has to be learn the hard way though, give the newcomes a chance.

 

 

At the end of the day, I do have a Max rank gold threat cop on Jericho.

The difference between me and you is how I conduct myself, Just because I am polite and considerate doesn't mean I won't go easy on an opponent.

 

I think you really are needing to reconsider just who you think you are.

I am someone that enjoyed getting hard ops and learning to play from them.

I once said this and i think it was you who called me masochist.

 

That is pvp games for you.

Stop crying for safe space.

12 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Yes, their experience wasn't enjoyable enough to stay. 

This is the problem we are addressing in the hopes of keeping the game from shutting down. 

 

When i started playing cs 1.5 i got rekt by cheaters like all the time, in a cyber. I had like half hour or 1 to play per day. That didnt stop me to the point i could defeat a whole team of players better than me in a mini tournament.

 

I think you understand what is my point, im not a surprise to stop playing a game that i like until i learn to play it.

Same been wih perfect world, but ive been lucky enough to have a teacher :^)

 

Merged.

 

On a final note... 

 

You dont win in apb, just lose more slowly.

My favourite apb vid.

 

Not even as gold with thousand hours in diferent characters i can win if i dont get a decent team, and i lose like all the time.

So sink that into new players: you dont win in apb, just lose more slowly. Truest words ive ever hear or read anywhere around this game.

[Sniperturtle 65]

Cool, thanks for supporting my requests to stuff new players into green district by default and apply strict rules on who can enter green districts as well.

 

Also stick around for the next topic: Silver district should be ashamed of itself.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Sniperturtle

[CookiePuss 5379]

29 minutes ago, BlueB said:

 

 

I think you understand what is my point, im not a surprise to stop playing a game that i like until i learn to play it.

Same been wih perfect world, but ive been lucky enough to have a teacher :^)

The reality remains unchanged. 

The pop is at an all time low. 

And the poor new player experience is a big reason why. Saying "too bad" won't  fix that. 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by CookiePuss

[BlueB 35]

18 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

The reality remains unchanged. 

The pop is at an all time low. 

And the poor new player experience is a big reason why. Saying "too bad" won't  fix that. 

 

 

You know well that new players stopped long time ago. I doubt current apb players leave because they cant play bronze.

Knowing the apb state you bring ur friends anyways, then complain in forums. Like come on, i really doubt you are that stupid.

Edited July 16, 2019 by BlueB

[MattScott 15242]

Hi all,

 

This thread has gone long enough without a response from LO, so here is where I stand on this.

1) We are working on getting more GMs in-game to help

But this is not an effective solution. Just like drivers who slow down when a cop is around, they always speed back up as soon as he's gone.

 

2) LO is not ignoring this issue

Every solution we have discussed or seen discussed on the forums takes development resources and will compete directly with releasing the Engine Upgrade. I'm not opposed to spending dev time to fix dethreating. But from what I can see, all the ideas thrown around would take a couple weeks of dev time and players would find new work arounds in a couple days, which doesn't seem like time well spent.

 

3) Dethreating is an issue but its the symptom of larger problems

IMO, we need real change in the architecture of how players are matched. The only lasting solution that I can see is to launch 3.5, merge all the worlds, and finish implementing cross-district phasing, so that we can match players across all districts / regions. This will move all 8 players to the "best" district based on best ping and best tick time.

 

In this scenario players will simply choose the district type based on where their friends are, so they can mess around till a match starts. No spamming a district with 79 players to get the last spot. No visible threat segmentation. Once a match is ready, they all get moved. That way we can have golds fighting golds alongside bronze fighting bronze in the same district. The new phasing also allows us to spin up more servers dynamically, so we can add more Waterfront or Financial servers based on demand.

 

From there we can work on ways to improve the algorithm and incentive all players to reach Gold rather than dethreat to Bronze.

 

Thanks,
Matt