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LilyRain

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Posts posted by LilyRain

  3. Posted · Edited by LilyRain

    23 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

    I agree, though said baseline should be likely based on range increments. Something i've noticed for example with STAR/FAR/NTEC for example, is that you can TTK up to ~10-15m, then up to 50m, the average ttk with "perfect" accuracy goes from .7(.75) to ~1.25/1.35 with perfect ttk to accuracy ratio (I used a macro to test the NTEC's ROF Accuracy regain once)

    Yeah, sounds about right

     

    23 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

    Snipers are bit more difficult because theirs goes from like what? 1.4 on average to 1.7, with the DMR going as low as .8 at long range. But most guns should be fine if they follow a similar base TTK with different accuracy based on ranges. A lot of the current weapons, least before I took a break, was balanced about a similar TTK at these ranges, though for example, STAR would still lose out to the NTEC, as it's not as good at ranged, but it would still do better in cqc spray. Weapon mods also change this a lot (*glares at HS3 being used on every non cqc weapon*)

    Absolutely

     

    STAR doing better than N-TEC at CQC still has some depth to it because N-TEC still kills faster. If STAR is a piece of burger-meat then N-TEC is the buns. Perhaps at the upper-range of CQC towards low-mid range.

     

    Yep, weapon mods are insane. Hunting Sight is a prime reason as to why New Players are initially screwed. I would rather it only be a zoom modifier but nooo... let the new players with their zero-slot STAR effectively not be able to make use of the weapon's effective range and indirectly, also not be able to burst/spray with it better (because minimum accuracy isn't as good without Hunting Sight).

     

    23 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

    hehe, i'm an even bigger loud mouth. I've posted so much that people didn't like. (*laughs in ntec rebalance discussions*) I wonder how many have higher than 10k posts that actually talk anymore...

    lol perhaps but at least you can hold a discussion without meaningless, childish spam.

     

    Not so many, Glaciers continues to do a fine job with 13k+ posts. He's objectively the King of Forums atm.

  4. Posted

    4 hours ago, PoshDoll said:

    Considering players can't play there because potato pcs

    You say it like LO only cares about modern PCs but that isn't true, because here is the fun fact: Top-tier PCs can't play optimally either because the current engine doesn't like RTX cards, so RTX users can't play with any sorts of decent textures. Till the new engine goes live, they have no solution but to play on potato visuals as well.

    • Like 1

  5. Posted · Edited by LilyRain

    33 minutes ago, MonkaS said:

    Trust me when I say weapon balance/meta will change with better performance and matchmaking will improve for a while when(if) engine upgrade comes out. Also there's really no reason to discuss in this thread especially since its already being discussed in other threads and has nothing to do with ops' question. 

    I'd like to but client performance, matchmaking and weapon balance are all their distinct things. Improving performance and matchmaking will change nothing balance-wise.

     

    It has everything to do with OP's question. Read it again, he is talking about the effect of "time" and ultimately asking whether LO is doing things in a time-manner that is factually good or not.

  6. Posted

    2 hours ago, MonkaS said:

    thought this thread was about engine upgrade why are ya'll talking about gun balance and gameplay changes

    While the Engine Upgrade is at the center of all their plans, discussing balance at this very moment is of utmost importance, perhaps one of the last moments where it can be safely brought up while having some time to do something about it. I say this because of the latest roadmap LO officially posted:

     

    unknown.png

     

    Of course, some delays happened so the New Engine is now internally at version 2.2, hopefully in 2022 instead of 2021 but LO is yet to give any official statement/changes to this roadmap. Therefore at this moment, the current plan stands the same in order.

     

    Balancing was brought up because not only it highlights serious issues when it comes to how balancing was and is being delayed for no reason but also because unlike some other things (e.g phasing, global merge), it REALLY doesn't need the new engine to be done, period. With the given order of goals, delaying it is nothing but procrastination and a recipe for failure. Balancing the game is not to be ignored because... APB is a game at the end of the day.

     

    If we don't talk about this now and get it out, might as well watch the whole thing go down in flames.

  7. Posted

    58 minutes ago, MeanBetsy said:

    I appreciate how much time you actually took to dissect what I said, I think discussions like this can be helpful even for the developers. But at the same time I don't think you were actually reading what I am saying.

    I have, it is called discipline. You just didn't think things through, hence denying your own words & attempting to change your stances so rapidly as shown and explained down below.

     

    58 minutes ago, MeanBetsy said:

    In the text that you quoted from me, I clearly never said they did or didn't vault weapons. I was just stating that it would be in their best interest to do so on a much more game-changing/overall balancing level - if that is even possible without much backlash.

    You say people don't read but you aren't reading yourself (most likely pretending)..

     

    In response to that, I've already told you that they DID vault weapons in their own way through destroying them till they get fixed in the future, ultimately debunking your point. It wasn't really in their best interest nor it helped whatsoever. All it did was cause further concerns in LO's ability to actually balance the game. You call it backlash, smart people call it feedback. Learn the difference as the feedback LO received was in order.

     

    Repeating it over and over won't make it any less false.

    58 minutes ago, MeanBetsy said:

    Again, I clearly never said they didn't need to fix it or not talk about it - it was just irrelevant to our conversation because I was specifically talking about the paid content getting vaulted. Saying that Mobile Radar Tower was indirectly paid for via premium is silly at best, you're reaching.

    You just lost it.

     

    It is perfectly relevant. It affects gameplay. If it didn't, it wouldn't have been vaulted.

     

    58 minutes ago, MeanBetsy said:

    II always knew, that screenshot doesn't prove the point you're trying to make here. I still never said LO will or would, I said it may involve refunding upset customers - this doesn't insinuate at all whether LO would do that or not. In essence, this was my opinion on what it would take to be able to change the business model.

    It proves a lot, you weren't aware prior of the EULA hence saying what you said about possible compensations and you still continue to say it.

     

    BY LAW, LO under no circumstance whatsoever, is liable or should provide monetary refunds in any shape or form. It doesn't matter if said players who paid for weapons agree/disagree with the changes, can deal with it or get upset enough to RIOT over their entire continent.

     

    No legal liability from LO towards Players for monetary refunds, period. You said you've seen many EULAs, then you should know that EULAs really doesn't leave room for opinions and thus, yours. Going against that after supposedly agreeing to it upon entering the service is foolish on the fundamental level. Why would you do this to yourself? What did you gain telling everyone that you didn't read the EULA?

    58 minutes ago, MeanBetsy said:

    Just because it didn't achieve balance up to the standards that most games today would be balanced by doesn't mean they didn't try. In Halo CE, you wouldn't use a shotgun against a sniper player at long distances, correct? You wouldn't use the pistol against a shotgun in CQC would you? It's a good example because there are rules that very much resemble that of chess. That's also why spawn points and map design generally follows the same rules across most shooter games - they almost always symmetrical in nature to ensure fairness.

    Too many mistakes were made, I'm afraid.

     

    - Your opening sentence is wrong in essence. Attempts that failed aren't really a positive point. Quite the contrary. You may have sympathy but they are still failed attempts that had their effects on the game's population, profitability and playability.

    - You proceed to imply that Halo CE was a failure when it really wasn't. The game was made from scratch and ended up being a decent accident that works better in comparison to other Halo games, gameplay wise that is.

    - The most extreme examples aren't representative of something as a whole. Again, Halo CE puts more emphasis on player skill compared to weapon choice due to players dying faster on average. The chess-factor is less there in comparison. Just because it exists doesn't mean it is dominant.

    - Fairness can't truly be "ensured" in unbalanced games. Map design will always favor a set of weapons over the rest, things don't really work like you say.

     

    58 minutes ago, MeanBetsy said:

    Here you're literally agreeing with me past the example of Halo CE lol

    I didn't really agree with you.

     

    I was affirming that you got the games mixed up. Halo CE is nothing like Halo Infinite when it comes to what someone can do with a controller's aim assist, which changed a lot of things. I was simply building up the stage to say that unlike Halo CE, Halo Infinite is closer to APB when it comes to "chess" like decisions due to obvious overall less demand from the Player.

     

    You just can't follow.

     

    1 hour ago, MeanBetsy said:

    That's pretty chessy in nature to me. Each pawn is dangerous in their own right.

    That's not how chess works and it proves you didn't understand the "chess" discussion at its core.

     

    I made it perfectly clear that APB requires less cohesion due to how slightly too high time-to-kills are. Chess in this light means to check mate a player back to the spawn screen... Your reading comprehension is beyond concerning.

     

    It also goes without question that some chess pawns aren't really dangerous alone. They aren't really much of a threat in few quantities as well against say the Castle, the Bishop and of course the Queen. Pretty much half of the chess pieces without a good plan and patience to make them useful, are half-garbage. This is why Chess strategies get developed in the first place.

     

    1 hour ago, MeanBetsy said:

    I do agree, and have always agreed with that point: APB Is not competitive - hence why people are leaving. Hence why I said things need to be drastically changed, starting with the business model lol. There are definitely steps they can take to ensure that the player base doesn't leave to annoyingly unfair gameplay advantages and an unfun meta thats been the same for 11 years - but like I said, it'd be in their best interest to have more creative control with APB. The current business model prevents that.

    Again, you lie and change stances too much...

     

    unknown.png

     

    So should APB play more like an unfun MeanBetsy-Chess or more competitive? You advocated for both yet they are complete polar opposites? Which one are you for truly? Make your choice once and for all.

     

    1 hour ago, MeanBetsy said:

    I literally never said that in this conversation lol

    You don't really have to say things directly. Welcome to the English language. Your stance and adjacent sentences that you throw around too much to cancel later did the talking for you.

     

    Your understanding of chess-like play directly supports longer-ttks, because if player speed and skill were dominant, there wouldn't be much chess to begin with.

     

    1 hour ago, MeanBetsy said:

    Doesn't need to but it's dying? Struggling to reach 100 people in a whole server yet it doesn't need to be a more strategic game? I am pretty sure APB is already on its last leg, even if the engine upgrade comes unless something changes drastically.

    APB is already at the bad-paramount of how strategic it can be. Again, I repeat... many Players wouldn't dare login to play solo because solo-gameplay is gimped to the maximum. Teamplay is as easy as one attack per decade. This is a strong reason as to why APB is not competitive enough to attract competitive-seeking players. A lot of decent APB players moved over to Valorant, APEX Legends, etc. 

     

    While player counts dipped, APB isn't really "on its last leg". Even Jericho is populated enough to play missions. Can't really call a game dying if you can press k and play still.

     

    But you want to make gameplay more loadout-based than performance just because 'player counts, we must do something'?  No, thank you. The things you ask for are self-contradictory, you don't really seem to understand the general direction of where things should be to achieve what some people call better "competitiveness".

     

    26 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

    APB used to have a higher TTK somewhat in RTW, it wasn't much of an issue then. But I do agree atm it's a bad idea, to retouch all of the games balance. It had been tried at one point, but the "tests" to do so, felt more like G1 had intentionally blundered it by not stating weapons the same as RTW and by intentionally making other weapons terrible so they didn't have to do so.

    I really hope so too. Indeed, G1 messed up quite a bit.

     

    The biggest reason and obstacle to retouching all of the game's balance isn't the idea in itself but the belief and approach that they should only touch 1-2 weapons at a time. That belief still exists today, it was actually posted 2 days ago by an SPCT on LO's official Discord server:

     

    unknown.png

     

    While I do agree that playtesting to verify changes practically is important, it doesn't truly help in staying on an approach that was tried before and wasn't fruitful nor it really supports his claim of things not being addressed for a long time because of it. It isn't like those District A and B weapon tests were rapid enough to prevent that long time either. It would actually take longer, months upon months to visit every weapon in the game in this way and there would still be discrepancies/inconsistencies at the end of the first pass, because with this approach, those mini-changes also keep in view other weapons that were touched and to be touched.

     

    With their reasonings and how they approach this mess, it just won't end in a reasonable time, especially when that is the plan according to LO's roadmap and that is to wait for the New Engine before attempting to make the balance better (amongst other qualities of life), which brings another great example, being that OCA buff and PMG nerf in order to swap their places in the meta when simply nerfing the PMG would've sufficed. Problem is they didn't really bother to make other weapons that are in desperate need of a buff faster either. Funny enough they actually nerfed LTL. They simply don't seem to be even trying.

     

    At this stage, a healthier and rather unavoidable approach is to simply decide on a baseline (which SakeBee said they did establish one but didn't really show where it is in the current roster of weapons) then buff/nerf all weapons towards it by a certain percentage, because atm, a lot of weapons are their own distinct baselines when there shouldn't be this many. From there, tweaking weapons individually in smaller increments would finally become less of a wall, because then weapons wouldn't be so niche or with some ancient unchangeable identities that don't really allow for narrowing the gaps between weapons a bit further.

    • Like 1

  8. Posted · Edited by LilyRain

    10 hours ago, MeanBetsy said:

    I never said they had to vault weapons, but it would definitely benefit them to have total creative control over the project.

    What makes you think they don't? The C.E.O said it himself, while LO sold the IP to the Chinese, the selling deal involved retaining complete control over THIS game, APB. LO can do anything gameplay related to this game and they did, both the good and the irrational.

     

    10 hours ago, MeanBetsy said:

    Mobile Radar Tower was not a paid mod and the Heat System was not paid content either.

    This is a first-grade online games problem. 'If it doesn't bring money there is no need to fix it or even talk about it', hmm? This is the mentality of short-term thinkers, a.k.a failures.

     

    They don't really have to be in order to receive fixes/improvements. If anything, if you think about it, there are players who religiously bought premium for the extra benefits such as more end-of-mission payout to skip grinding. Hence to them, indirectly, Mobile Radar Tower (amongst other things) were indeed paid for.

     

    10 hours ago, MeanBetsy said:

    Go to a lot of the updates regarding any update to do with weapon changes when LO first got in - most people who were complaining were talking about the weapon they had purchased in the past now suddenly becoming bad.

    "Most" here is an inaccurate exaggeration because the most talked about weapon was the N-TEC, which happens to be available for free.

     

    Since you were absent for so long, such a thing wouldn't matter anyways because ARMAS weapons are now available for purchase with JTs from the Joker Store, which is one of the great things LO did to this game.

     

    10 hours ago, MeanBetsy said:

    I know what the EULA says, which all EULA's say that. I am not saying LO will or would

    NOW you do. Had you known previously, you wouldn't have said this:

     

    unknown.png

     

    But you always seem to say things that you don't really mean so it is whatever.

    10 hours ago, MeanBetsy said:

    but it would definitely help populate the player base and force them into being more open-minded to a new type of business model. And it's not like they couldn't change it anyway (they changed a couple of EULA when they kicked G1 out). 

    It isn't new at all. In fact the rational half of the player base (not the trolly side who suggests wrong things just to see the game fail, because that's what they like to see) was actually suggesting ARMAS to stop selling weapons completely to kill the existing and future stigmas it brings, as well as to kill Joker Boxes because lootboxes are also a scummy practice. The latter was forced to happen when some countries declared lootboxes in online games illegal, the former is yet to happen.

     

    At the present moment and the near future, it won't help populate the game at all. The damage was already done. Those who thought the game is pay2win/pay4advantage because of it already left, dragged their friends with them and probably DDoSing the game just how they DDoSed Jericho to its death door.

     

    This will only help the possible new breed of players once the game re-advertises after the engine is out. Problem is, such changes must happen promptly, not afterwards like LO's roadmap shows. As it stands, it is a recipe that guarantees losing a good portion of those yet to arrive players.

     

    10 hours ago, MeanBetsy said:

    Shooters are, especially nowadays, and always have been arcade-y chessboards. Even down to Halo: CE, your weapon choice mattered very much depending on distance and your ability to aim. Those two factors are like that of chess pawns. In fact, most well-thought out games play a lot like analog games. And Halo still does this to this very day because it is very viable and generates healthy player competition - and a successful product. Trust me, the game is not balanced in its current state and should definitely play more like a chessboard when it comes to weapon variables. A "shooter", as you put it, is what a single-player game is - not a competitive multiplayer game sadly

    Not even remotely accurate. Halo CE.. "distance and your ability to aim. Those two factors are like that of chess pawns"... do you even know what you are talking about?

     

    For starters, the Halo franchise's balance was all over the place so it is a bad example to use to begin with, but we'll go with it. You got it backwards, btw. Halo CE was a faster game so no, weapon choice matters less in it:

     

    unknown.png

     

    On the other hand, on the disaster that is Halo Infinite with controller-aim-assist being an aimbot AND substantial time to kill, THAT game actually puts more weight to weapon choice. It isn't really hard to understand. APB is in a similar situation anyways (minus the controller aimbot).

     

    When it comes to "competitive" games (e.g counter strike), each weapon is dangerous in its own right (even when considered sub-par), because they can still kill quite fast with further ability to headshot people. So they really aren't "chess" as you call them out to be. They are "competitive" because unlike APB, the dominant factors there are player speed and skill and hence, solo players can still wipe out an entire team in rapid succession. But in APB? Not even close. Good luck doing that in APB without camping some corner, abusing car gameplay or consumables against players that know what they are doing. You can start a fight with someone, have your teammate or theirs join a decade later to end the fight. Cohesion doesn't need to be good in APB to be effective because APB is by far a chess game in comparison. There wasn't much comparison anyways.

     

    That game plays like a shooter, APB not so much and no, APB doesn't need to play more like a chessboard. The game is already at a point where a lot players wouldn't dare play solo and hence population counts being lower than they would've been for the current state. You are in fact on the side of some who suggested APB should have longer ttks. I won't trust you on your stance because evidently, strategically, factually, with APB's spacial design AND statistically, that will be the end of APB's gameplay.

  9. Posted · Edited by LilyRain

    33 minutes ago, MeanBetsy said:

    but I see why it's hard for LO to really come up with a balance that will make people happy. It's not like they have the same liberties that game devs have when they're developing a game (pre-retail). They can't vault weapons (because of the paid weapon issue from earlier) and they can't modify modded weapons or else people's paid for weapons will stop working as intended.

    Except vaulting or developing aren't even needed to take another, more reasonable initiative towards balancing some numbers or fixing things. Of course they have the liberty to vault things, they own the game and they DID vault some things. They did vault the blue vehicle mod "Mobile Radar Tower" as well as most of the Heat System (Prestige5/Notoriety5) in order to fix the former and make the latter better. Instead, those two were simply dumped and forgotten. Considering how RFP got the same treatment, HVR's damage now scales proportionally with the crosshair size (silliest band-aid fix ever, because simply changing its damage output would've been better). Vaulting other weapons are likely to end up the same or also taking over a year (like Med Spray did).

     

    33 minutes ago, MeanBetsy said:

    About the RFP, I haven't played the game lately enough to know about that situation - but I'll take your word on that.

    To clarify, RFP now requires 1.5 seconds at BEST to kill up to a mere 41 meters for what it sets out to do. Can it occasionally get a kill or an assist in the middle of a chaotic fight? Yes. But speaking of vaulting, LO might've as well vaulted it because right now it has no reason to even exist. Any mediocre performance would've temporarily sufficed (e.g 1.2-1.3s). Better even they should've just removed Improved Rifling 3 from RFP-Fang and gave it some 'Fang' tagger or even Improved Rifling 1 to keep it consistent with most preset secondaries (because IR3 is the root of the problem).

     

    33 minutes ago, MeanBetsy said:

    In order for this game to even become viable, the complete business model needs to change concerning weapons - which may have to involve refunding upset customers about their fav premium weapon being nerfed.

    This is why their balance attempts are less than stellar - a successful company would realize this also, and avoid attaching weapons to real life money at all costs unless you're a looter shooter.

    No, per EULA, no one is entitled to a refund no matter what. Players 'agreed' to this but most have played and paid without reading the EULA. Plus, they got their money's worth of it by now anyways.

     

    I agree when it comes to not attaching weapons to real life money, if anything payments should only be made towards cosmetic items for the best results. But their balance attempts are less than stellar not because of any of that but because they are holding on to previous beliefs that shouldn't be held on. APB is a shooter so they should make it a shooter. Instead, they are trying to make it a super-silly arcadey chess board (yes, they made epinephrine consumable ridiculous also. 150% speed boost for a cheap 25% health cost) where every weapon must be a distinct chess-piece on the 2nd row. This never succeeded and certainly won't after the game re-advertises with the new engine. Literally not many outside the current community would ever find this appealing but I hope LO's luck shines and proves me wrong.

    • Thanks 1

  10. Posted

    Just now, MeanBetsy said:

    To LO's credit, every time they've tried to even tap the concept of balance in this game at all the community just starts attacking them and demanding that they revert their precious mods/ntec. The bad part about this game and balance is that people paid for weapons (when they used to be exclusive to the Armas Marketplace) - so it's not even like the community is in the wrong when they get mad at their weapon getting nerfed. This was the hole that G1 dug themselves; when a player pays for something, they expect it to just work and be the same way since you bought it. This is how any purchase you make should be. It's a double edged sword whenever they nerf/buff any weapon whatsoever. I still remember the backlash that G1 got for touching the shotgun spread.

    The community wasn't in the wrong. A lot of changes weren't even close to being well thought out, completely out of place and others didn't even need to happen (e.g buffing OCA to oblivion and not a buff across the board, x2 heal Med Spray that lasted for over a year).

     

    When it comes to the community getting mad that their weapon got nerfed, we have a great example to look at. RFP and RFP-Fang. The weapon is beyond "nerfed", it is completely destroyed. Who's talking about RFP these days, really? It was long forgotten and most others would've been not forgotten but praised that they are a part of a decent balance state.

     

    A successful company should be able to tell what is reasonable and what isn't and the history of balance changes under LO's reign (discounting the Vehicle balancing because that one was actually good), doesn't really show much improvement. The good part about LO is that it is willing to revert bad changes, so once some do indeed happen, there is nothing wrong to demand going back to the previous state. It is actually the right thing to do.

    • Thanks 1

  11. Posted

    2 hours ago, PLAYLUXE said:

    If you're moving to a new house, are you gonna buy new furniture before or after moving?

     

    It makes absolute sense to not add new content to the current engine. The more they add now, the longer the upgrade will take because they'd have to move more content to the new one.

    Since Reloaded Games did basically nothing, Little Orbit had to start from the beginning when they took over in 2018. So count at least 5-7+ years up from 2018 since Covid pandemic slowed down everything the last 2 years. And still will be slowing down progress for at least additional 2 years.

    That is absolutely true. However, LO is simply delaying EVERYTHING, even things that don't need to be, such as improving the game's balance for both current and potential new players by the time the engine is actually out. 

     

    Whether on the current or new engine, stats are stats. Unlike some vehicle shenanigans (embrace the new Vegas physics), A STAR will kill in 6 shots under its drop off range and so on. There is no better time than now to at least come up with a plan for execution rather than start making one after the engine and new players flood in. There is no way LO would balance the game, improve new player experience, get a better tutorial out, etc before the new players realize the game is incomplete from the first week (realistically from the first day or two).

    • Like 2

  12. Posted

    1 minute ago, proxie said:

    How would i know, i only work for sucessfull companies. Riot in of itself was the big mistake.

     

    Whens the scrims my guy? Lets do some arranged matches homie.

    "sucessfull"

     

    ↑ That spelling says everything. Any 'successful' company would fire you day 1.

     

    Try to troll again when you actually know more about what happened throughout APB's history, have a basic grasp of what would work for it and better even learn how to troll properly.

     

    By the way, LO sold APB's IP to the Chinese because they wasted time with RIOT and thus.... money. It didn't look like RIOT's battle pass made that any less painful.

     

    Thanks for the memes Mr. 7 years of being a useless employee.

  13. Posted

    Just now, proxie said:

    oh shit, i didnt know crying on the forum paid so well! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

     

    My points have already been laid out in plain text. Your bias against a company earning money of their product has already been stated too. Lets go 3v3 arranged matches if u want.

    How much money did LO exactly earn from RIOT's 3-weapon-skin battle pass, can you enlighten us then?

     

    Joke of the Century right here.

  14. Posted

    19 minutes ago, proxie said:

    I guess I'll just have to cry myself to sleep with my €13 000 monthly paycheck i get from being an expert consultant in this subject. This guy clearly knows more and looked at more data than me.

     

    lmao get real

    Please, I get more by simply existing.

     

    If you have a valid point to say, now is the time. Even then, you can cry yourself to sleep with the knowledge that the APB community doesn't like your beloved battle pass garbage.

  15. Posted · Edited by LilyRain

    23 minutes ago, proxie said:

    TLDR lol

     

    Read the first couple of sentences and it's sad to see you speaking from emotion rather than actual expertise. Sad. 😪

    Of course, you can't even debunk a single thing I said so you resort to blaming emotions. Typical.

     

    As if your expertise had anything meaningful. Congratulations, you wasted 7 years of your life.

  16. Posted

    6 hours ago, proxie said:

    I have been working as a analytical expert for these things for multiple companies in the last 7 years. I'm sorry but there really isn't any debate here.

    You know, if everyone was really good at their job, then the gaming market and the world as a whole would be a much better place. You clearly weren't good at yours and it shows. The first thing to do when analyzing anything is information gathering (a.k.a doing your homework), which you didn't do a great job at. If you were also that good then you wouldn't have jumped companies so often. So there is a lot of debate when it comes to anything you say, really.

     

    6 hours ago, proxie said:

    Regardless of the misstakes of how Riot treated their battlepass im fairly sure overall it has boosted their player engagement more that it would have done to not implement a battlepass. As im sure you are well aware pretty much every modern battlepass has milestones/tasks that are locked behind weekly rotations to encourage putting in a few hours every other day. I would go deeper in the subject as it relates to my PHD research paper about establising player behaviour over time, but that would be just doxing myself. But in short, one of the goals is to establish playing the game as a "daily routine" for the players - and it works as dopamine from completing tasks while working for a bigger goal sets your brain up to come back for more. Its some interesting behavioral neuroscience.

    I am sorry but battle passes aren't a magical formula that brings players. If you were paying any attention, you would've seen that RIOT's battle pass was empty with nothing but 3 weapon skins which would've been rewarded traditionally for playing RIOT a certain # of times. If you were actually present then you would've realized that RIOT's battle pass wasn't the thing that spiked player counts as it literally had nothing to offer. Nobody asked for APB to get a battle pass nor a Battle Royale mode and the majority were against the idea

    https://forums.gamersfirst.com/topic/8317-apb-battle-pass/

     

    https://www.reddit.com/r/APB/comments/bf5ani/full_riot_rundown/

     

    LO did it anyways. We played the game mode for what it is then the majority of Players left within the first week, causing the game mode unable to even launch. Is this really your "expert" understanding of boosting player engagement? Don't be ridiculous.

     

    7 hours ago, proxie said:

    But no, a battlepass does not need to be grindy to be effective. It just needs to have proper mini goals over time (like weekly missions), a long term goal worth the work and IMO be possible to "overlevel" for smaller additional rewards. It's important to make sure that maxing out the BP isnt a full time job - but also that doing your weekly alone should almost be enough to max it out.

    Yes and no as this still creates the need-to-play basis and emptiness of feeling that there is nothing more to do after these mini goals are met. What kind of mini goals would it have? These mini goals already exist in the form of contacts giving mini side missions for additional JTs (kill few people with a shotgun, be MVP, etc). What would it possibly have that isn't a joke, drive a car for 5,000 meters? And if so, Players would login to drive than actually press k to play, no thank you.

     

    A Battle Pass would also create additional severe problems such as time commitments. LO would need to continue updating the battle pass with items that make sense (mostly cosmetics). Such a task is costly and LO with its financial crisis, lawsuit loss and hoping to find a sponsor by the time the New Engine is out doesn't really put them in a good position to open that door. It will only cause them further losses as they have proven it literally takes them over a year to do something that can be done in the next week's maintenance (e.g. reverting the ridiculous Med Spray x2 heal rate). LO previously clearly stated that they will stop posting due dates because the community gave them ♣♦♠♥ for always being delayed, so LO figured it is better to keep going without promising a due date. Do you really thing they can meet a monthly or so due date of a new battle pass season? That would be a miracle.

     

    Overlevelling usually repeats prior rewards just to get extra copies from, which in APB's case would only be great if it was a JTs reward and even so, most existing players bought all they wanted to buy with JTs anyways.

     

    7 hours ago, proxie said:

    IAs for increase of player spending habbits. I don't mean that users are spending more because they are buying a battlepass. The battlepass is just a hook. The more established a player becomes to the game the more likely they are to spend on other things in the game. Maybe think of it as "the first one is on the house" sort of mentality.

    Problem is that most Players around have been here for a decade. They have already bought all they wanted to buy so unless LO actually adds new things, there won't be any more money flow, especially when LO is still generous enough at the moment to provide Premium for free (since COVID started).

     

    APB needs to PLAY BETTER and then afterwards to increase the Rank cap with new things to work towards, perhaps give meaning to standing earned at max Rank, not a battle pass that will only encourage timely rewards that would be unattainable once its period is gone. Leave that garbage to Battle Royale and Gacha games, that's the last thing APB needs.

  17. Posted

    6 hours ago, proxie said:

    Regardless if you like battlepasses or not they do work in getting people to play the game and its what a game that has a struggling player base needs. There are many sources that validate that it gets all users to play more and even spend more. There is a reason why almost every game does it.

     

    I personally dislike them as i feel like most of them are way too grindy though. Right now APB needs more players more than it needs to sell the battlepass, so having it mostly f2p would probably be the best idea.

    Very debatable.

     

    In the short-term, yes. What happens after a Player fully grinds a battlepass season in about a single week? He/She proceeds to grind a different game. This trend is similar in any game that has a battlepass system. Population counts spike at the start of a season to grind the new pass then goes down gradually. It creates the 'play on a need' basis rather than play the game for what it is. This won't help APB at all, it will make things worse. Again, RIOT was a good live-example. As soon as some people grinded the few weapon skins that RIOT offered, they NEVER played RIOT again and the game mode wasn't even able to start because there weren't enough players. APB does not need to go through this ever again.

     

    I have addressed the part of "to play more" but when it comes to spend more, still depends on how the battle pass is done. There are battle passes out there where if the Player FULLY plays a season, they will get the monetary equivalent to buy into the next season without actually paying for it. So dedicated Players only get to PAY ONCE provided they grind the first week or so of every season (which is easy to do). The reason why every game does it is because they want to jump on the new trend train, because they think that's what the current generation of Players like. Nothing more.

     

    See, here is the contradiction. If battle passes are indeed the reason to make someone play a game more, then it won't be really grindy at all as it will complete itself as the Player plays, yes?

  18. Posted

    I must say hard no to adding a battle pass.

     

    A battle pass can destroy a game's reputation and discourage people from playing it in numerous ways even if handled mostly right. It would require a miracle to work for APB, even more so considering APB tried it with RIOT and ended up being one of the emptiest battle passes in the history of online gaming.

  19. Posted

    11 hours ago, Theronguard said:

    Agreed but the downside is a blessing in disguise, Even though the matches will be short, the game will be fun to play because r 255 is a long way, there are other things besides contact standing to progress, population will increase etc..... i think that downside will solve itself in the long term and in the randomness of who has to defend or do objective.

     

    Or only in the final stage of the mission whether u win or lose u get the same contact standing. 🙂 

     

    I have my rank built up from 572hours of losses and 1% wins 😞  

     

     

    If ur still reading......XD........TBH if i was the owner of apb id implement a few things without changing the game whether it is before or after engine upgrade i cannot say XD:

     

    • Make premium free and permanent with the game
    • Same contact standing for winning and losing
    • Have a constant event once a month that give 1500jt to 2000jt   
    • implement Raid bosses in opposition contacts through AI that give $50,000 to $100.000 Apb$ capping at: you can only do 3 boss fights per day so $250.000 A DAY / find some other ways to earn Apb$ money than ramraiding raiding 
    • Increase the type of customizable clothing items in Armas marketplace / gage my profits from the aesthetic side of the game  rather than from the player's actual combat stuff which affects gameplay and ruined the game in the first place.

     

    I see. Yes, there would indeed be potential blessings to it. Perhaps also there won't be any need for people to /abandonmission or to restart the game because last stage is V.I.P or Creme De La Crime mission. Perhaps a new culture would surface where Players would simply talk to each other and let it all end before last stage.

     

    Yeah, it isn't really probable to win while Ranking up against seasoned players. They have all the experience, know all the spots, all the weapons, cars, muscle memories AND mods, while the Ranking up player is simply discovering them one at a time. I'm glad you made it all the way ❤️ 

     

    I agree to all these points but I'd also add increasing Contact Standing reward from non-opposed missions. Making it like 80% of Standing earned from playing an actual mission would make more Players willing to log in earlier before peak times & to stay a bit longer afterwards, ultimately making the game slightly more alive.

    • Like 1

  20. Posted

    1 minute ago, Theronguard said:

    Solution/Alternative: make winning and losing missions give the same increased contact standing...... 🙂 

    This alternative is both heaven and hell in 1.

     

    Upside: There will be no meaning to winning or losing, so players who want to play will simply play the game.

    Downside: A good number of Players whom aren't at max Rank will simply abuse this and instead of playing, they will make sure they lose early to better maximize their standing per hour. We will have a major problem similar to dethreating. Instead of dethreating, players will play a single stage or 2 before losing on purpose. It won't be pretty.

    • Like 1

  21. Posted

    9 hours ago, MACKxBOLAN said:

    So the Sociopath staff can sit back n get their jolly's, and watch the 6 alleged dethreaters, and the rest of the 'Real golds' farming bronzie's and T's as the game spirals out of business. Pretty much ending the game for anyone who isn't a hack or gold, and ending any Free Rome Role Play, because its just a Sandbox full of broken glass and animal dung.

     The Children aren't allowed to play in the sandbox anymore.

     

      I'll Never Pay A Dime to this game, even if you bring me an engine tomorrow, not after being so immoral 

    This is exactly the thing. Dethreaters didn't let children and new players play, that is why they are so delicious to farm. They deserve this for what they have done. APB would've been much more lively if they didn't set out to do what they did.

  24. Posted

    21 hours ago, MACKxBOLAN said:

    I understand what your saying about cars, have done it myself but this is different. 

    I might add that this individual is considered a 'Known' by other Gold players.

    His other actions do not lag or skip, when this happens you can see the legs running forward and the player moving backwards at the same speed as kevlar3 and shooting at you. So its not the kind of teleport where they disappear n reappear yards away.

    Yes, what you explain seems to be a bit higher than natural.

     

    Sounds like a bandwidth based exploit. He must be throttling down his upload speeds on purpose to induce such laggy effects (some people do that sadly). It could also be that he is sharing his low-bandwidth internet with someone in the house who uploads videos. But it is also very likely that the nodes between him and the server aren't really great.

     

    20 hours ago, FartyBumBumGuff said:

    I don't want the car teleport thing fixed, I hate having to wait for him to react to the fact I pressed F then open the door then stand there for a second and get in, it can take a few seconds and sometimes I press F again because I think it didn't register after two seconds but it did so then he opens and closes it and I have to do it again. It can take me ten seconds to get in the car farting about with the door.  Is there some sort of settings/ controls configuration or button you can hold down that lets you move backwards, I've seen someone walk backwards throwing bricks. The odd thing is though he was throwing them constantly. I've just unlocked them and can only carry 3

    Sadly getting into and out of cars in the normal way is latency dependent. It'll take a second to even start the animation. This is another advantage those with low latencies have in this server-sided environment.

     

    The backward grenade is a trick that is triggered with help of assigning that look backwards key (by default, it has no assigned key). Streamer Darleenko does this often, he can tell you accurately how to do it.

    • Like 1

  25. Posted

    13 minutes ago, MACKxBOLAN said:

    Well what do call it when your not laggy, its not laggy, and u see someone below U, who hasn't seen U and You have watched them enter the area. You have the Drop on them. You get one shot off n ya might hit em but they instantly disappear n reappear 5m back from where they are along the track that U saw them walk in, or they will use their car and do the same thing, Run backward at full running speed while shooting at u n back into the car. Its like a backwards teleport. 

     There are two that do that in dist and are there every day

    In APB, that type of teleporty movement is not just common but in fact the norm because of something called server tick rate (refresh rate for servers, meaning how often the server updates and shows you changes in people's inputs/movements). APB's server tickrate is around 30hz, which is about half of what other games use. For example, games like Counter Strike and PUBG run at 60hz, Valorant runs at a very modern 128hz. Another reason is latency. Even if there is no lag, there will always be latency. The effects of latency and server tickrate to update player movements will stack, ultimately showing you teleporty behaviour. This effect is especially more noticeable with semi-automatic weapons such as pistols, because most players either hold left-shift or have auto-sprint config between shots. So the server will show them quickly accelerating as it interpolates movements between those refresh ticks.

     

    About the cars, there is a trick that players want fixed because it is game breaking. If you park your car in such a way that the door is very close to a wall, another car, etc. You'll simply teleport inside the car because there is no room to physically open the door. The entire animation will be skipped and you can simply drive away instantly or just enter the car to heal off. If you see this, this is just the game, it is not a cheat.

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