LilyRain
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Posts posted by LilyRain
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2 hours ago, Reprimand said:In this case , wouldn't a mod that decreases spread be useful? Does Reflex Sight achieve this?
Yes but the effect is so miniscule the answer might as well be no. The following image shows the accuracy stats of NFAS that has Reflex Sight 3 and Cooling Jacket 3.
Reflex Sight 3 improves Run Modifier by 10% (1 → 0.9). However... Cooling Jacket 3 increases spread alone by 50% (150cm → 225cm) as well as increase the shot modifier cap (spread) by another staggering 70% (1 → 1.7). Add to these the fact that NFAS doesn't really have any time to recover during its automatic firing (Fire Intercal is 0.2697s but Recovery Delay is 0.6s), which makes the situation even a bit more worse.
The negative effects of Cooling Jacket on NFAS are so high that Reflex Sight won't help. Reflex Sight is generally considered useless on shotguns overall.
2 hours ago, Reprimand said:It gotta be brought back. 5/10/15% reduction.
I'm confused because everyone knows the Tier 3 Mods are the best but the others get left behind sadly.
Perhaps but there was another thing. While reducing the fire rate seems fair in exchange for more range, it made automatic weapons a lot easier to use. N-Tec started to handle like N-Tec 'Ursus', so the skill-factor in controlling shots was effectively gone.
Additionally, due to how powerful and easy-2-use close ranged weapons are, it made their lives even more guaranteed against those using assault rifles in close range, because assault riflers by default sacrifice mobility when marksman-aiming in order to land shots. Close Rangers can also equip cooling jacket, making it rather impossible to lose without actually missing shots, which is rather unfair skill-wise.
----------------------Tier 3 Mods aren't always the best choice. Cooling Jacket 2 is often seen better to use compared to Cooling Jacket 3, simply because of how big the negatives are with cj3 in exchange for a tiny benefit that is often not worth it.
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5 minutes ago, Reprimand said:I see. But does that matter to weapons like the OBIR and NHVR? Weapons which fire with such specific accuracy?
Good notice, it doesn't. They can afford it, that's why things like Obeya CR762 are still strong with CJ3. It already has good range so it doesn't need IR3. CJ3 works well on it.
6 minutes ago, Reprimand said:I think for SMGs it is a little different because it speeds up the time to kill. You just have to aim a little better.
Correct. SMGs are mostly short-range so CJ3 won't hurt them as much. CJ3 PMG is a very strong choice. N-FAS with CJ3 though makes it spread too much. It requires almost kissing-distance to work.
7 minutes ago, Reprimand said:Personally. I think CJ3 should increase fire rate but decrease range and Heavy Barrel should increase accuracy but decrease fire rate.
That would be much more straightforward for CJ3. Not necessarily a bad thing at all if tuned right.
There was a previous change for Heavy Barrel that made it fire slower. It was too excessive so it was reverted. -
5 minutes ago, Reprimand said:Why does Heavy Barrel reduce damage but not CJ3?
It does but indirectly. APB is a game of distances.
Cj3 makes weapons substantially more likely to miss due to bullet-spread. In a sense, it shortens your optimum weapon-range in exchange for some speed. (e.g medium-range weapons become short-high-range weapons).
Attempting to use a weapon at its original best range will easily require an extra shot. That extra shot increases time-to-kill by a lot on many weapons. In that sense, DPS-wise, its drawback is comparable to Heavy Barrel's. -
Spot on, balance is whack even for endgame. Surely fresh Characters will naturally suffer.
The exception is Clotting Agent 3 + "green gas" (medspray). That combination doesn't really work. If you see someone using it just continue the fight, it won't contribute to healing them at all.
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1 hour ago, Thial said:Like I said, you are delusional. Every time there are valid arguments for the system being bad you are dismissing everything as either subjective or people being bad.
How tf is being car rushed / yolo spammed / hvr tagged by a squad of bounty hunters in the middle of a mission a subjective issue ??? Did you even think for 5 seconds about what you wrote ? No you didn't because all you care about is having the last say.
Not to mention the 30 iq backflips about there not being stalling in this game. There absolutely is but looks like you haven't figured that out yet. You can absolutely stall for time by running around and holding good angles while getting cheeky kills as people chase, you can spam nades, use items, block points, put mission items in hard to reach spots, play mind games and more. Once you will understand the psychology of people you can predict what people will do and you can use that to your advantage but we both know that you will dismiss that too with some bullshoot like "yeah you can't do shit when you get pushed by a squad because of timeframes".
You can keep repeating the word "delusional", it is all you can say at this point.
I've given you numerous chances even though you sealed your deal from the get go. You aren't good enough to discuss this and using your frustration from P5/N5 deaths that don't really matter is the ultimate proof, more so you tried to argue that Spotter/Tagger are less 'wallhacky' than the Bounty System.You're done.
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59 minutes ago, Reprimand said:Why can't they just buff the stabba and LTL in general?
At this point using it is harder than using pistol only.
Because balancing is influenced by taste, not by what is better for the game.
Yes, LTL should remain weaker than lethal counterparts for very good reason (to not give Enforcers an edge) and I very much agree with that. But it is very easy to slightly buff LTL while maintaining that law.
Instead, they nerfed LTL and buffed OCA on the SAME PATCH by not just nerfing PIG, but by making it completely useless (Stamina damage 950 → 675): https://www.gamersfirst.com/apb/news/2020/9/11/weapon-balance.
Their reasoning I heard was 'to prevent stunning those falling from a certain height', right. That doesn't necessate this much of a nerf.Later on, they pretended to 'forget' that they were supposed to rebuff it to 750, which they have done later.
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On 2/25/2023 at 2:16 AM, Thial said:The levels of your delusion are fascinating. Based on what you are saying you have clearly never participated in very competitive matches consisting of the best players.
Seems like you're describing yourself. I have ARRESTED AND BEATEN some of the best known players around and I would most certainly have no problem arresting you too, thank you.
On 2/25/2023 at 2:16 AM, Thial said:First of all me saying that I can kill the whole team doesn't invalidate the issues with the bounties. Yes I can kill the whole team but when you are a bounty you are not just dealing with the enemy team, you are also dealing with randoms who can for example rush you with cars as a 4 man, spam nades, 85u with hvrs etc. Even if I will survive a fight with my actual enemies I can just get griefed by a random very easily which in return with the terrible spawn system might spawn me 200 meters away and it's gg.
It does since that was your only argument, which didn't really say a single objective issue about the Bounty System. Just your own personal frustrations of getting owned.
On 2/25/2023 at 2:16 AM, Thial said:Timeframes, what are you even on about ? You can absolutely stall and play mind games with people, use suppressive fire, spam nades etc. You are going off of an assumption that you are some big hero who just jumps in and kills everyone. Guess what, the best players have respect for each other's skill and they know that they can't do stupid shit or their mistakes will get them punished. Doesn't matter how good you think you are if I'll corner pop you with a csg. Wannabe heroes just get farmed. In high level games people actually stall quite a lot and look for openings to push in an organized fashion.
No, you cannot. The average time to kill in this game is 0.75s. Some weapons kill faster, others do it slower and that is the case in a 1v1 scenario.
You're trying to argue that you alone vs 3-4 other players can hold out till your teammates arrive? The spawn screen alone requires enough seconds for a person to be killed. I guess it is YOU who never participated in "very competitive matches consisting of the best players". You wouldn't last remotely as long as you claim.
On 2/25/2023 at 2:16 AM, Thial said:Now let me educate you on mods. Comparing a bounty to a wallhack is perfectly valid. Every veteran knows the exact layout of every spot so just by seeing you on the map they can immediately tell where you are, no need to actually see you through the wall. By that logic a bounty marker is way more damaging than a spotter since you need to first reveal yourself to be spotted which no experienced player will ever do when they are defending. Additionally the effect of both spotter and tagger lasts only a moment unlike the bounty marker. In a competitive match knowing an exact position of someone is a massive advantage as reaction times often are the deciding factor of who wins.
And no nobody will just forget about the bounty system. If you are saying that everyone will forget then why do you want it enabled in the first place ? It was disabled for very good reasons after the players were frustrated with how it works and it should stay disabled. Your conclusion is basically "people can grief anyway so who cares if they can grief even more". Truly a great conclusion.
Which is why this is a checkmate against your entire argument but sadly you are incapable of reading...
Yet AGAIN, I repeat: "Golds will continue to play the game irrespective of being spotted, tagged or being P5/N5". You have just confirmed this fact. The Bounty System existing or not won't change anything in this very regard.And no, the Bounty System is not griefing, it is playing the game. Having it disabled is closer to griefing that not since it enables griefers to do their thing while being virtually God Mode. This should be very easy to understand.
Merged.
On 2/25/2023 at 8:11 AM, pesto said:the bounty system was changed for 1 main reason. 'to remove bounty by killing same faction players'
No...
The Bounty System was changed because of 1 person only, a Streamer known as ThePoundOfFlesh.
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1 hour ago, Thial said:ok this is an absolute silver take.
I am glad you said that, let's examine yours yet again..
1 hour ago, Thial said:I could absolutely take out whole enemy teams on my own and so could many other people. You won't go far in this game if you will underestimate people just because you can see them on the map.
Then you shouldn't have any problems but you somehow do, massive ones at that pertaining to "skill issues".
1 hour ago, Thial said:Even if I won't kill everyone I can at least attempt to stall enough for the team to respawn
You won't, unless your metric is silver/bronze opponents. Basically people that are still learning the ropes. Your grasp of timeframes in this game appear to be massively lacking. There is no "stalling" here. You either wipe the enemy wave or they wipe you.
1 hour ago, Thial said:but giving enemies a wallhack is an unfair disadvantage. Not to mention all randoms being able to rush me now while I'm trying to salvage the mission.
In a good and fair environment there should be no outside influence which could affect a mission. If there is, it will always be abused without exceptions. If you manage to use a spotter or a tagger on me then that's fine but giving people a free wallhack for no reason just because some redundant meter happened to reach level 5 is just bad design.
Silver takes huh? What do you call this then?
You are fine with spotter/tagger that literally provide actual visual feed in the likes of wallhacks, but you call the bounty system that only shows a star on minimaps "wallhack".... do you even know what wallhacks are, my friend? It isn't bad design at all when it is less prominent than actual mods such as spotter. If Bounty is bad design, you should vouch for the removal of spotter/tagger as well. Till you do, you're not being honest.1 hour ago, Thial said:Give me 1 actual good reason why the bounty system should be brought back without mentioning bs like "it would make districts more active" because that was never a thing. All I see is people desperately trying to enable griefing tools again.
I have given many objective reasons that are simply not up for debate, but since this has devolved into a skill conversation then I'll give you a no "bs" one:
The Bounty System should return so you get to learn a valuable lesson. That lesson being Golds (which you believe you are one of) don't really have a problem with the system. People will talk about it for a week or 2 then get back to their lives. Golds will continue to play the game irrespective of being spotted, tagged or being P5/N5. You however will continue to say that people are getting some 'unfair wallhack' & that they are ruining/griefing your mission.P.S: Griefers can grief anyways. They'll ram your car, ghost & call your position out to their mates, etc. The Bounty System actually gives you a chance to kill griefers, which makes it fun to get back at them every once in a while.
I'm interested in your next wave of nonsense.
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6 hours ago, Thial said:I still fail to see how earning a tiny bit more money or JT justifies dealing with all of the griefing and unfairness which the bounty system brought to the game. To me it looks like people are looking for stupid excuses to just give themselves a free wallhack and allow better players to be griefed instead of getting better themselves.
Also there's nothing subjective about the demerits. The bounty system was straight up a griefing tool abused by many to either intrude on other missions and ruin them by using things like hvrs, opgls, volcanos etc or by cheaters to just drive around / speedhack with a bounty and kill everyone in sight. It can be used as a free wallhack and griefing tool to kill someone who's for example the last person stopping the enemy team from scoring a win. It was also abused in very competitive matches where people were calling their buddies with bounties to help with the mission or to hunt down the bounty on the oppoising team. I really fail to see how small rewards justify bringing all of that back. Not to mention randomly getting your bounty pop because of whatever reason and suddenly you have the whole district against you while you are let's say transporting team items. It was random, it was dumb, unfair and highly abused. No thanks.
It makes me laugh when people are attributing somehow making the districts more alive and better because of bounties. No, you just want to grief other people's missions by either being a bounty or killing the other bounty which only adds to the toxicity of the game, that's all.- The Bounty System doesn't award JTs..
- "the last person stopping the enemy team from scoring a win" doesn't really work in APB. The game is against going Rambo (1 man army) against entire teams. He/She will get pushed and killed. Doesn't change the outcome.I'm not sure how to tell you this but if you have trouble killing 1 person whom you can literally see on the mini-radar in real time, you're probably not good enough to be discussing game balance.
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While I do enjoy the Bounty System, my liking to it is subjective. However, objectively speaking, it is quite the mistake to make APB nothing but Team Blue vs Team Red. There are many games out there that does this better & APB shouldn't straight up compete with that. APB should strive at making itself better at what it has unique, its chaotically-alive District nature. It isn't like we have after-mission leaderboards for it to be a problem. The moment you get your scoreboard, look at it by pressing Tab then press K, that match-history is GONE FOR GOOD. There is simply no reason to pretend that it is a problem.
Moreover, years ago, the Bounty System was really lucrative rewards-wise. All Money and Standing were doubled, even those awarded at the end of a mission, so getting one at the last stage was a decent deal to those good enough to maintain it. But of course, that got nerfed to promote buying premium. Objectively speaking, I'm certain many people would have enjoyed this and actually help keep districts more alive away from peak times just because of how more likely it is to benefit from it. Additionally, it would help kickstart districts earlier because the hassle of farming non-opposed missions will be effectively HALVED (NA would've been fine a while ago when people needed Waterfront to progress & things were looking dead because of it. I wonder why nobody considered this, hmm?). Getting the Bounty System to be more rewarding again will be an unquestionable boost to APB. That is a clear-cut fact.
More pressingly, progressing weapon roles without the Bounty System in mission districts is substantially slower. It doesn't matter what your average K/D per match is, you WILL get a massive hit to your role progression simply because of how many kills are required for max role. It is evident this wasn't considered/compensated when the system was switched off.
The Bounty System should come back, it carries substantially more merits against meaningless, subjective demerits.
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2 hours ago, AutumnSan said:You're right, but something needs to be done about the unbalanced matchmaking nevertheless.
Indeed. LO's latest plan is Phasing between adjacent districts but I'm not sure how well that will go or take to be ready.
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1 hour ago, Ellix said:I hope you're about to reintroduce the threat segregated servers again.
I think the flow of higher population right now allows to.
Dethreaters will make sure that the increase in population will go down again. Their presence destroys missions in the stronger district in order to forcefully dethreat, then further make newbie-life hell on the weaker districts.
Please no, never again. Dethreaters should have their fair-share of the real-world like everyone else.-
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New updates.
in Game
36 minutes ago, Reprimand said:The issue is that players can jump fire them from a distance that is too far to counteract. Shooting at them leaves you vulnerable especially in the open.
You have the upper-hand since O-PGL's weakness is time, plus since the O-PGL is jumping, both of you would be exposed. The situation is ultimately in your favor.
O-PGL can drop grenades on the floor, bounce them off a wall or jump-shoot from a distance but at every single instance, O-PGL grenades require 5 seconds to explode. Long-ranged O-PGLers can be killed easily in less than 2 seconds. Even in 1 second with weapons such as Obeya CR762.
Your best tactic against any O-PGL user is to either take the initiative or evasive action to attack later. Play around them and they are easy-prey.You could also get in a car to close the distance. They can do absolutely nothing about that.
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New updates.
in Game
14 hours ago, Reprimand said:Git gud.
If you have not experienced two players spam jumping with LTL OGPL then you are unable to understand my pain.
Happy Landing is a staple modification. I don't think it should prevent 100% of fall damage. 80% at most.
1 vs 2 scenarios in APB are all painful. Unless you get to fight enemies in relative 1v1 succession, you're going to die (unless they can't aim).
Try being in between 2 OCAs/PMGs, shotguns, Light Machine Guns, etc. Should we remove those as well? Because they are substantially worse. Literally instantly killing. At least both O-PGLs have a fuse timer of 5 seconds, you can literally start moving when you hear them and you'll be fine.-
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APB is a game that chose chess-like gameplay over what makes sense and was balanced along that path (despite balance not being perfect). Weapons like EOLs not being usable from passenger seats consequentially looks stupid but allowing EOLs at the present time to be used from Passenger seats would instantly change the value of EOLs from zero to hero.
EOL 'Deep Impact' is a literal Concussion Grenade Launcher (Health, Stamina and Hard damage to vehicles are all identical) but with the added benefit of a fuse timer that is ONLY 2.5 seconds (faster than Low-Yields) compared to 4s from actual throwable Concussion Grenades. Being able to shoot that from a Passenger seat is massive (it can also reload in only 1.15 seconds).
ALIG users crouching to disable Pioneers would become completely suicidal. ALIG requires 3.24 seconds to destroy a Pioneer, meanwhile the user can receive 990 health damage in just 2.5s, putting them in a perfect place to be 1-tapped by anything, like the driver pressing F to finish the job or another passenger doing the honors.
In the event the Pioneer has High Burn Fuel, ALIG needs 2.7 seconds to destroy it which is still slower than the fuse-timer and even if the ALIG-user succeeds, the passengers can simply press F to avoid death due to High Burn Fuel being outright one of the most stupid additions to APB. Again, one-tapping the ALIG would be cake-walk from there.
Unless APB's balance gets revised, this would be a problem.
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I don't believe that renaming APB is necessary or beneficial but assuming it is a good thing to do, APB is not ready to be rebranded nor the way APB is handled allow for such an approach. A renamed game must simultaneously release with new content, enhanced gameplay, features, etc. APB releases things bit by bit and tweaks things one at a time which doesn't bode well with a rename-effort.
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30 minutes ago, R3ACT3M said:I don't think making TTK longer on it's own will be good, but alongside other needed changes will be a much better improvement. It's definitely something I at least would like to give a chance in a some sort of a test district.
I also don't think it would be an overnight change. But with APB having mostly hitscan weapons I think trying to turn it into a twitch shooter is just not a good idea either.The changes must be drastic, namely against mobility.
APB is a game where people can instantly turn 180º and continue moving at full-speed. Currently, a lot of fights get cancelled using Clotting Agent 3 behind objects, or the ability to enter a nearby-car. Having longer TTKs will guarantee that APB will become a game that requires getting more friendlies to aim at the same target to make any progress. Solo-gameplay is already at a high-disadvantage and any higher TTK will effectively make it useless without explosives. -
On 1/1/2023 at 12:48 AM, neophobia said:x64 is regarding the client though. not a serversided upgrade (yet) if i understood it correctly. why would it, anyway? i guess a new ue version would come with upgrades to the framework on the server side as well - buuut... it would be surprising if the statements from your article (which i also remembered) wouldnt still hold true - the console version doesn't have better servers and already had some newer parts of the framework (right?)
Good chance Console-servers are handled by Sony and Microsoft, so upgrading them should be more straightforward.
But for PC-servers, some upgrades/changes can surely prove to be beneficial due to servers having similar trends to client-demand (core-clock rather than multi-thread). Current APB servers are confirmed to be single-threaded:
"The clear winner here is the SoftLayer 1270v3 at 3.9Ghz (TURBO). That's a bit surprising, since technically it's the "smallest" of the three processors types (AWS C3 is a E5-2680v2 with 10 cores at 2.8Ghz, and the SoftLayer E5-2690v2 is an 8 core 3.0Ghz processor) and by far the cheapest.
However, Unreal eats processor clock for breakfast, and does not properly use multiple cores for its processing tasks. So the smaller processor actually wins out.
For the 1270v3 even with each district at full 100 capacity, frame rate remained close to 30 FPS, and dropped only very occasionally to 25 FPS. This is higher than the current servers’ frame rate of 25 FPS under the best conditions (down to 18 FPS at 80 capacity), and actually better than the US based Overkill servers which run closer to 22 FPS under the same 100-player load!"Which makes sense because servers receive information from clients, so there have to be some similarities. Because of this, there is also a good-chance cheaper servers were used because having more threads at the moment doesn't matter. Luckily though, multi-threaded CPUs are now very affordable for servers compared to the past.
23 hours ago, R3ACT3M said:I can only imagine making the servers 50v50 a thing they could do for now if the x64bit upgrade allows for it. If not the cross-district matchmaking is still the better way to go. But I wonder how 20 more players in the district would feel. Would it be too chaotic? Or would it bring more life?
I remember it to be more lively (till players block-roads on purpose with green planet trucks)
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1 hour ago, R3ACT3M said:will 64bit allow for higher player counts in districts? And wasn't it in a RTW trailer that 100 people could be in a district at once?
Districts in APB were 50v50 when I started playing it. At one point in time the district cap got lowered to 40v40 due to server performance: https://apbreloaded.blogspot.com/2015/02/new-apb-servers.html
If servers can benefit from the x64 environment then that is a solid yes as that will help with the benchmarks that happened years ago against district population. If not, x64 with Cross-District matchmaking will allow the matchmaker to consider those in a ready-state across other districts, it will then move them all to an appropriate district. I never came across in-depth details of how that will happen (will there be loading screens? will players phase inside civilian traffic? no clue atm).
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Correct. There are things that don't really need the x64 Engine Environment.
The exception being matchmaking because of the way LO wishes to address it, Phasing (cross-district matchmaking). The only quick-alternative to waiting for the x64 engine is for LO to increase district caps, because 40v40 is quite low for matchmaking to shine. A slower alternative would be to either revise scoring or skew how threat changes, because anyone who can press F at an objective can be Gold.
But yes, things like balancing should happen NOW. Even if LO delays its advertising of the x64 Engine, players and Game Bloggers WILL BRING the World's attention back to this game. They will re-try it, see that it indeed performs better, RTX-Cards don't crash, etc but the game is still the same unbalanced mess.... then they will leave. Plus, weapons are hit-scan. There are no physics involved with bullet travel time because that doesn't exist in APB. Also, the efforts later will naturally revolve around finding bugs in the x64 environment rather than balance the game. If balancing gets delayed, that would be the ultimate mistake.
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2 hours ago, gremlen said:The long ttk will make the game much worse. First of all attacking the mission will become much harder in many areas because how easy it will to run away to regen hp and comeback to defend the point, especially with a car gameplay meta. Sniper rifles will be dead in 99% scenarios, The meta will be just to drive close to the enemy and try him in cqc to prevent him running away and regen because the game will become more forgiving for him. Semi-auto will be dead for sure because none will want to click 20 times at one enemy, it will quickly exhaust you. The idea of increasing stk means that you won't be able anymore to clutch vs N-amount of enemies by one round + secondary gun. The game will end up as a tactical step by step strategy with trading kills because one guy will just not have an opportunity to keep fighting after the 1st kill without reloading. But if LO will increase the capacity of magazine it will make the game look stupid with ugly numbers (45ap with 14 bullets in one mag). What about long range fights? Should weapons have a limited effective range or maximum damage at any distance? If weapons will keep their effective range, so how many shots I need to land at one enemy at long range? 30? Fighting in this game will look unsatisfied and feel unrewarded.
Why not? The only problem here is a big amount of weapons that caused balancing weapons around their most used mods to prevent changing weapon niche by switching different mods. For example Pre-LO ntec was op at most situations with meta ir3 and hs3 but at close-mid range it could destroy in cqc if you switch to cj3, you didn't really need oca or pmg. So, the balance here works like that: instead of switching mods in one weapon, you're forced to switch to other weapons.
Precisely. Longer TTKs will simply amplify ALL of APB existing problems.
Anyone who advocates for longer TTKs doesn't have a single clue to what they are talking about. -
Jesus was born in Summer.
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12 minutes ago, MrLek said:We don't have bombs in the APB that have the function of raising smoke or blinding people. So there's no way to compare.
The function of the bomb in APB is just to take damage. You can see the red nick of the enemy passing by. They could make the enemy's red nick bigger.
But we do. Grenades in APB come with some smoke by default since that is a natural aftermath of the explosion. The exception being half-brick, 8balls and snowballs which aren't really grenades.
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16 minutes ago, MrLek said:I don't think this is unfair, you could ask L.O to put the option to remove the smoke within the APB options, it would be more democratic. Whoever wanted to play with smoke would activate the option, who had a bad PC and wanted to play with a little more FPS would deactivate it.
Imagine an option in Counter Strike that lets players switch off Smoke Grenades and Flash Bangs.
Fairness will only exist if smoke is either visible or doesn't exist for EVERYONE.-
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Why does LO Hate the Thumper?
in Social District (General Discussion)
Posted
It is all-around superior to JG. It kills faster (0.6s vs 0.65s), has the same base accuracy (8 cm at 10m), has tighter spread (125cm at 10m vs 150cm at 10m), has better mobility (sprint delay 0.45s vs 0.65s), faster reloads (0.5s vs 0.6s) and better damage dropoff range to help compensate for its red mod (15m vs 10m).
https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_DOW_Slot2_ArmasJB
https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_JG_Slot2
The niche is its mod. Much tighter spread but half the fire-rate. Marksmanning it is not the way. Just go CSG/Tas-20 at higher CQC-ranges (or drop down to being a PMG/OCA garbo-player).