Kewlin

Pretty much.

Good post, sorry I didn't get to reply sooner, I was kind of sick of the APB forums for a bit there. I will agree with you that my second suggestion makes way more sense than my first one. I think it's interesting what you're saying about CJ affecting accuracy, 'cause it's something I kinda' thought about in theory before, but I never really played with it because I don't play OBIR a ton. I've always had an issue with how long bursts take to complete. I do hope they do something to make it so you can reduce the interval between bursts as well, I just don't totally see it making sense on CJ as it is. Agreed. Though I don't think that HB should get a huge buff, because it could easily become insanely good IMO. Let's not forget that there's already one gun in the game that has a placeholder red mod seemingly solely for the purpose of keeping HB off of it (at least that's what we can assume the reason for the ACES red mod is, since HB2 effectively removes ALL bloom from the gun.) I still wish I had gotten to play with the 1-slot PDW-57s when those were accidentally released on the JT store and were ACESs with an open slot and no red mod. Interestingly, IR3 would also remove all bloom on the gun at this point, albeit with a higher TTK.

I was debating the same thing.

While this is an issue, (albeit only really on the HVR and Scout,) the solution to an issue is never spreading the issue. That's how you get power-creep which is a very bad thing. As for IR, yes, it's an issue, but not really the subject of this thread.

My bad on the 30% thing, meant to say 7%, huge brain fart.

It's a straight upgrade, that's kinda' an issue. VSB, please explain to me why we need a straight up 30% 7% TTK reduction to burst fire weapons.

We don't know either way yet if they're going to change CJ, we just know they have a test version on OTW. However, I do agree with you that existing things should generally only be changed when they're basically guaranteed to only have positive effects.

Agreed, mods are mostly fine as they are, but if they're going to try and make there be a mod to increase burst RoF these are my personal suggestions on how to not fuck the entire game.

Little Orbit, mods are basically intended to have a downside on any gun that has an upside. If it doesn't work this way the game quickly becomes unbalanced to newer and / or non-paying players, which is quite honestly bad for everyone. Yes, there are some exceptions, but those are largely unavoidable and, for the most part, minor. As it is on live, Cooling Jacket effectively has no upside on burst-fired guns because reducing fire interval by a percent has an absolutely minuscule effect when RoF is so high. However, CJ also has effectively no downside because: It's so rare for a burst gun to be able to reach max bloom, so increasing max bloom doesn't matter. CJ only increases bloom per shot on guns that have a recovery delay shorter than their fire interval. (It doesn't increase bloom technically, but it reduces a gun's ability to recover from bloom by reducing the time between shots.) And the test version doesn't have any downsides either, as in the ~0.41 seconds between shots with CJ3 the OBIR, and I believe all burst weapons you can put the mod on are going to fully recover their bloom. I understand you want to make there be red mods that are applicable to burst weapons, but I highly suggest that you instead make a new mod that only applies to burst weapons and as such can be properly balanced to them. I personally would suggest one of the following, with my personal preference being the first: Decrease the time between bursts, but slightly increase fire interval. Decrease the time between bursts, but slightly increase per shot modifier. I understand that OTW is just a testing environment, and AFAIK you haven't even posted about these changes really, but these are just my suggestions on the subject from my years of playing, studying, and discussing APB. From that experience, I strongly suggest against making CJ a straight upgrade on burst weapons, and I also believe it would be deleterious to change CJ for every gun just to make it properly balanced for burst weapons. I hope this advice helps.

That's effectively just asking for them to turn the Strife into the JG, lol. The point of the Strife has always been high damage, low RoF, and I suspect the reason they reduced the Strife's RoF so much is because they didn't like that it can, in theory, 1-shot Fragile users, however not once in my time playing APB or reading the forums have I heard a Fragile user complain about being occasionally 1-shot by the Strife, as it's very rare. In fact, I've heard Fragile users often talk about how they thought the fact they can be 1-shot by the Strife is fun / funny. So yeah, please bring the Strife back to full damage, even if that means you need to reduce the magnitude of the pellet curve.

I'd keep the damage scaling as it is on the JG and NFAS personally and reduce it on other shotguns, but the CSG and Shredder certainly need the damage scaling reduced. (Also, I agree that the N-TEC doesn't really need a nerf per-se, it's not really used necessarily because it beats every other gun, but because it can do more things than any other gun.) Unfortunately, RP already worked in a decent amount of TTK creep the LO should quite honestly fix. Thanks for the unnecessary annoying post Mateo. I'm glad to see you're still spreading positivity.

Pretty much agreed. Also, as an aside, I honestly think ARMAS presets need to be reduced to the point that at least all guns have slotted versions. They didn't really need a buff, but I understand why they wanted to buff them, since I think they want to make them less RNG. That being said, they went way past making them less RNG and the CSG and Shredder are insane ATM. I'm sure eventually the CSG, Shredder, and Showstopper will be toned down, and I hope it's sooner than later. Love you too fam.

Maybe I don't need to be aggressive, but in some cases I prefer to talk like I think, as anything else can add pointless layers of obfuscation.

Pretty simple bug, there's two options in the dropdown menu for ruleset that should not be on the live servers:

You, me, and many others agree on this. While I'm not a proponent of increasing TTK, I sure as hell think we need to stop the TTK creep that's been going on, because pretty damned soon 0.5s is going to be the standard TTK for CQC guns. The OCA needs to be reverted and we need to stop getting faster and faster guns. Remember when the LCR was able to out TTK sniper rifles? Now the ISSR-B is just as fast or faster and has a lower STK and better accuracy. APB just has too much power-creep.

No, I'm totally fine with giving IR a downside, 'cause obviously it needs one. What I'm not fine with is that this is an indirect buff to the HVR, N-TEC, and CR762, as well as an indirect nerf to many other less viable weapons. Uhh. . . I change weapons a lot, but if I had to pick just a few guns it'd be something along the lines of S1-TIC 'Rabid,' COBR-A, FAR, and S1-NA 'Manic'? Though I'll probably be trying to use the Anubis a lot more like I used to now. Well, they haven't really. Up until now they've only done licensed games for Cartoon Network and Disney, and I doubt those game's even had forums. Buying APB was their way of breaking away from that. Sorry, I wasn't clear, I meant as a developer or as a player. I feel like even most people who play online games seriously understand that prematurely putting out patches is a serious issue. I do understand though that APB is in some ways a test try and figure out how to do other things better though. I'm not saying that the idea of making IR make guns less viable in CQC is a bad idea, what I think though is that changing RoF is not the correct way to do that. I personally think it would have been much better to at least experiment with the idea of making the downside increased per-shot modifier instead of decreased RoF, because as has been stated in other places in this thread, not every gun is really effected by decreased RoF in practice. TL;DR: My issue isn't the fact that IR3 reduces RoF itself, it's how that plays out with the current guns in APB.

Which is amazing, because it basically means there's no way in Hell I'm spending money on ARMAS until the EU comes out, knowing I'll be fucked over if I do. Great marketing tactics, amirite? Ugh. . . I don't remember when exactly he said it, but I'm pretty damned sure he did.

You have a lot more faith in game companies than I do if you think things actually get fixed after they go live. Lots of companies don't make good fixes or revert changes in reasonable timeframes if at all, and I have little to no reason to think LO will be different until they prove otherwise. Until I have reason to believe LO is actually in touch with what APB needs, and this patch certainly didn't prove that, I'll continue to believe they're like the many other game companies that quite honestly don't know what's best for their games.

So what changed from the previous patch then ? Except for maybe the obir, and if the best close range weapon uncontested is a CSG or OCA does not really matter. Here's what they actually did: What the consequences of the changes are is a whole different story that's hard to totally predict, however I think everything I said about IR changes at least is correct. Yeah, there are totally tons of things that will come from IR3 being changed that will be hard to foresee without putting in a lot of game time, which is why (as I think you understand) I'm unhappy about the changes being made so rashly. The indirect changes to N-TEC, CR-762, and the HVR are just the tip of the iceberg, I'm sure. Honestly though, I'm not sure I want to delve into it much until Speed gets the current stats up on the DB. As it is I have no clue what IR is actually doing, though I'm going to bet it increases the fire interval instead of modifying RoF directly like they claim.

This is what happens every major change, everyone just comes to an initial assumption based on virtually nothing, and then throw shit at the other side. It's really obnoxious, and I wish people could just have actual discussions. . . I wouldn't even mind if they were a bit heated, as long as it wasn't just a total shits-how. . . . and I'm not going to claim I'm not autistic, but at least I try to have a point sometimes.

In light of all of my complaining BTW, I would actually like to commend LO on listening to me and fixing the Scoped N-TEC.

Honestly. . . I'd get a heart attack if they did, but I'm not sure it'd be for the worse. That being said, it'd require people who really knew what they were doing. The Misery has literally always been 5-STK, and was totally usable before this buff.

I'd rather have the balance as a whole be healthier than have a few guns be slightly better than they were before, and trust me, I used most of these guns regularly at one point or another before this patch and the buffs are minor. The majority of people who think the buffs are major are often people who don't have much experience with the guns as far as I can easily tell, like the people I saw on OTW constantly who thought aspects of guns were changed that were not, simply because they weren't used to the guns. . . or even the people I saw who thought the Manic was buffed because they'd simply never paid attention to the gun anymore. That might not be you, but from my experience the buffs are minor, and I've certainly seen quite a few people who simply didn't know what the guns were like before the buffs. I mean. . . basically the same changes were on OTW. . . and I played those a decent amount, then played a fair bit once they went live. . . but whatever, think what you want I guess? Can you stop throwing shit at me randomly please? I'm not neurotic: having a different view than you does not make me neurotic, okay? I didn't jump right to insults, I said a ton about these changes it on the OTW threads, and LO didn't give a shit about what me or anyone else said as far as anyone can tell, and they put the patch live on a schedule no other game company I know of would consider reasonable. Furthermore, the insults I made were few and minor, made after a week of frustration trying to explain the issues with what they were doing on the OTW threads. Furthermore, I know for a fact most of the active LO staff on the forums has read this thread by now, so if they actually cared about my insults they would have said something about it. The one insult I said directly at LO were that they were drunk and off their rocker. . . which aren't exactly. . . major insults. Plus, the idea that you think you can legitimately question my sincerity, or mental state over the internet is ludicrous, as is the fact that you're discounting everything I'm saying simply because you don't like the way I write. If you can't keep your eyes open to new viewpoints from anyone and everyone, I don't honestly see what the point is of being on an internet forum in the first place. Considering that IR3 N-TEC still has the same effective RoF at range as it did before the patch when you consider that you don't shoot full-auto past like 10m or something, I don't think I can really agree with you. I will admit the HVR changes will probably help though.

I'm aware of all of the other buffs, but honestly they're mostly pointless TBH, 'cause they're still not really competitors. Sure, there are lots of guns that are viable, and as I said before APB will still be playable, but IMO, even as someone who used and loved the COBR-A and Misery before these patches, I think APB is in a worse state than before these patches. Basically, as I see it, the guns that got buffed still aren't really all that good, many of the best guns in the game (the HVR and OCA being exceptions) got buffed, and a large percentage of the other guns got nerfed. . . and that doesn't really sounds like a good thing to me. And can we please, for the love of all that's good, stop throwing dumb baseless accusations at me? It just makes all of you look like idiots. Just a friendly reminder to everyone, in case anyone forgot, that LO_Beastie said these changes were going to concentrate on buffing weapons rather than nerfing them, but instead we got one of the most used mods in APB nerfed.

So....mostly the same? No, because the N-TEC, CR762, and CSG are going to be far stronger than before TBH, and most other guns are going to have more difficulty competing past 50m now.