MeanBetsy

YOU GOT ME LOL

Most of these are great ideas, and I fully support them. However, I don't want to dox myself to play a game. I also don't need the hackers in this game giving my picture an evil mustache and horns

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Yet, somehow, APB players cry whenever a single modification to the game's balance takes place.

Oh yeah! So here's the reason why we can't have the Engine Upgrade right now: we don't have enough reddit karma

That opening line literally told me everything I need to know about the rest of this essay. So tbh, didn't bother reading it Anyone with eyes can literally see that you're purposefully arguing in bad faith

I appreciate how much time you actually took to dissect what I said, I think discussions like this can be helpful even for the developers. But at the same time I don't think you were actually reading what I am saying. What makes you think they don't? The C.E.O said it himself, while LO sold the IP to the Chinese, the selling deal involved retaining complete control over THIS game, APB. LO can do anything gameplay related to this game and they did, both the good and the irrational. In the text that you quoted from me, I clearly never said they did or didn't vault weapons. I was just stating that it would be in their best interest to do so on a much more game-changing/overall balancing level - if that is even possible without much backlash. This is a first-grade online games problem. 'If it doesn't bring money there is no need to fix it or even talk about it', hmm? This is the mentality of short-term thinkers, a.k.a failures. They don't really have to be in order to receive fixes/improvements. If anything, if you think about it, there are players who religiously bought premium for the extra benefits such as more end-of-mission payout to skip grinding. Hence to them, indirectly, Mobile Radar Tower (amongst other things) were indeed paid for. Again, I clearly never said they didn't need to fix it or not talk about it - it was just irrelevant to our conversation because I was specifically talking about the paid content getting vaulted. Saying that Mobile Radar Tower was indirectly paid for via premium is silly at best, you're reaching. NOW you do. Had you known previously, you wouldn't have said this: But you always seem to say things that you don't really mean so it is whatever. I always knew, that screenshot doesn't prove the point you're trying to make here. I still never said LO will or would, I said it may involve refunding upset customers - this doesn't insinuate at all whether LO would do that or not. In essence, this was my opinion on what it would take to be able to change the business model. Just because it didn't achieve balance up to the standards that most games today would be balanced by doesn't mean they didn't try. In Halo CE, you wouldn't use a shotgun against a sniper player at long distances, correct? You wouldn't use the pistol against a shotgun in CQC would you? It's a good example because there are rules that very much resemble that of chess. That's also why spawn points and map design generally follows the same rules across most shooter games - they almost always symmetrical in nature to ensure fairness. Here you're literally agreeing with me past the example of Halo CE lol That's pretty chessy in nature to me. Each pawn is dangerous in their own right. I do agree, and have always agreed with that point: APB Is not competitive - hence why people are leaving. Hence why I said things need to be drastically changed, starting with the business model lol. There are definitely steps they can take to ensure that the player base doesn't leave to annoyingly unfair gameplay advantages and an unfun meta thats been the same for 11 years - but like I said, it'd be in their best interest to have more creative control with APB. The current business model prevents that. I literally never said that in this conversation lol Doesn't need to but it's dying? Struggling to reach 100 people in a whole server yet it doesn't need to be a more strategic game? I am pretty sure APB is already on its last leg, even if the engine upgrade comes unless something changes drastically.

I never said they had to vault weapons, but it would definitely benefit them to have total creative control over the project. Mobile Radar Tower was not a paid mod and the Heat System was not paid content either. I am strictly talking about purchased items from the Armas causing LO a lot of grief when it comes to even attempting to balance the poophole that is APB. Go to a lot of the updates regarding any update to do with weapon changes when LO first got in - most people who were complaining were talking about the weapon they had purchased in the past now suddenly becoming bad. I know what the EULA says, which all EULA's say that. I am not saying LO will or would, but it would definitely help populate the player base and force them into being more open-minded to a new type of business model. And it's not like they couldn't change it anyway (they changed a couple of EULA when they kicked G1 out). Shooters are, especially nowadays, and always have been arcade-y chessboards. Even down to Halo: CE, your weapon choice mattered very much depending on distance and your ability to aim. Those two factors are like that of chess pawns. In fact, most well-thought out games play a lot like analog games. And Halo still does this to this very day because it is very viable and generates healthy player competition - and a successful product. Trust me, the game is not balanced in its current state and should definitely play more like a chessboard when it comes to weapon variables. A "shooter", as you put it, is what a single-player game is - not a competitive multiplayer game sadly

I didn't say the community was in the wrong, I specified that. I do agree, a LOT of those changes missed the mark - but I see why it's hard for LO to really come up with a balance that will make people happy. It's not like they have the same liberties that game devs have when they're developing a game (pre-retail). They can't vault weapons (because of the paid weapon issue from earlier) and they can't modify modded weapons or else people's paid for weapons will stop working as intended. About the RFP, I haven't played the game lately enough to know about that situation - but I'll take your word on that. In order for this game to even become viable, the complete business model needs to change concerning weapons - which may have to involve refunding upset customers about their fav premium weapon being nerfed. This is why their balance attempts are less than stellar - a successful company would realize this also, and avoid attaching weapons to real life money at all costs unless you're a looter shooter.

To LO's credit, every time they've tried to even tap the concept of balance in this game at all the community just starts attacking them and demanding that they revert their precious mods/ntec. The bad part about this game and balance is that people paid for weapons (when they used to be exclusive to the Armas Marketplace) - so it's not even like the community is in the wrong when they get mad at their weapon getting nerfed. This was the hole that G1 dug themselves; when a player pays for something, they expect it to just work and be the same way since you bought it. This is how any purchase you make should be. It's a double edged sword whenever they nerf/buff any weapon whatsoever. I still remember the backlash that G1 got for touching the shotgun spread.

Its funny how toxic players are to people who suggest that they should give LO some slack. Consensus on hardcore apb forum dwellers: "nO I DoNT THiNk I wILl! SHuDAp". You guys do realize that it's harder for a company to please you if everything they suggest for the game is met severe backlash? I get it, some updates you all felt like were a miss but I think ANY change to this game should be welcome since it can always be fixed later down the line in your lifetime. This is a stance I've also had with G1, but they never did anything ever except for cash grab with premium weapons for like 7 years. The game is NOT even close to perfect in its current state, otherwise it would live forever and LO wouldn't have had to buy it off of G1. Also, programming on top of someone else's mess, especially a heavily modified engine from pre-2010, is not a cake walk. We've had so much progress, updates, and EVEN OPEN BETA TESTING for the new engine - I don't understand this baseless mentality that "Oh LO has never done anything". Some people are clearly just stuck in 2011.

Unpopular Opinion: I think it was necessary since the toxic APB community can't even be trusted with a dislike button lol. You can tell if the community truly dislikes something by observing the comments, dislikes just enable trolls to be trolls without even reading the post while staying anonymous. I think everyone is overreacting to this change, especially since other social medias do the same thing and people/ideas can still get negative backlash. I get it, it's a feature that some of us used - I understand that we don't like having stuff taken away from us but at the end of the day comments are more powerful and telling anyway. This change encourages the people that dislike something to say specifically why they dislike it instead of just pressing a button. Some people might say "why not just remove reactions all together?". You don't really need to communicate what you like about a post or why you're saying thanks about something, but if you have criticism for something then it's better to voice it so people can assess themselves and others better. A dislike button really doesn't communicate anything at all besides "I disagree" which helps no one and won't convince an opposing view point. Merged. You do bring up an interesting point, but here's the thing: while it may have helped you grow thick skin and properly channel their emotions, the rest of the community hasn't grown up at all. I'll be honest, the majority of APB players (retired and active) are like worse than sweaty CoD and CS players. Also, I don't think it's not up to the game to teach someone how to properly channel their emotions. That just comes with just wanting to be a decent human being. Another thing about people is that you can't trust/expect them to do the things that require them to learn from their mistakes - 9/10 times they won't. Why? If you never cared about being a decent human being to other players then you won't care to learn how to channel emotions either.

Yeah but I think that's what most people's conception of competitive video games are. Technically, you can have a casual game pvp shooter - yes it is competitive in nature still but it is by no means designed to be an esport (the definition of competitive to most gamers). Yes we can use dictionary definitions or whatever, but we all know semantics are governed by the social group you're in/the individuals you're surrounded by. I am not disagreeing with you or anything, APB is technically competitive in nature due to its pvp - but most people believe that the ranking system, design flaws, random elements, and balance stop it from being an esport (or what most consider to be a competitive game). This is also why people didn't consider Battle Royale games to be competitive, since they are technically based mostly on luck despite it being a literal battle till the last person is standing.

I think he/she means e-sports viable, not so much competitive - if so then I agree

On certain snipers only? no ty. adding extra collision for only a few weapons in the game just sounds like a waste of performance

Two reasons: 1) Toxic Community - You're seeing it right now. 2) Investment - People spent so much money and emotional energy (essentially "no-life"-ing) on this game, leaving it would be literally a waste of money and years of their life lol.

There isn't really much you can do about that second issue

APB is a casual game, not just fight club, whether you wanna admit it or not lol. As I state in later posts, and sorry for the late reply, the game would benefit more if we had multiple tiers like the competitive modes in other games... but then you take away the social aspect of the game where you can't play with your friends since there are too many tiers - it's definitely not like sports in a sense where you can be on the same team with your best friend regardless of skill level (its usually the team that picks their teammates... not some sort of matchmaking algorithm). It would, however, definitely make matches more "fair". The current problem: gaps in skill levels between tiers/threats are currently too wide to really be of any use in terms of matchmaking. The more variables you add, the less people have a chance to play with each other. Back to the sports thing, this game is nowhere near e-sport levels of good nor should it be imo. Not every game can be an e-sport, only ones that are made from the ground up as e-sports will have any sort of success or fairness. I don't think it should be highly competitive either... there's no way to add a competitive mode without killing/separating the players even further (any further and the game will basically die). I would argue the opposite. Getting carried/stomped is one of the best ways to learn. Actually, it can even make you aspire to be like them - drive your motivation rather than just think you're as good/better than everyone else. But this is theoretical and wouldn't apply to everyone... HOWEVER, getting carried and seeing better players take better positions/perform certain tricks is very valuable. Getting a chance to talk to them is also very valuable - which would typically be in a match. This is why there are even sports to begin with... you look up to them, you can see what they're doing and learn from it, etc. You see your favorite team get rekt and you learn how they did (or just get angry that they lost).

How does that, district hopping, compare to dethreaters? In other words, how was it even a terrible thing that was ruining matchmaking? Sure it's a P-Word move but I can't really see it as a damaging thing. Dethreaters, mal-intentioned or not, do. With non segregation at least people dont need to Dethreat and you know more of who you are up against. And that's what I mean, it doesnt matter if theyre used to it... the fact is APB can easily do fine without threat segregation with Consoles as proof of that. You kind of just proved my point. If console players really felt as though it was missing or that it was completely screwed up, which they're very vocal within the game itself about its issues more than the forums, then I am pretty sure there'd be as much of an uproar about it as the poor optimization/performance. But as far as I can tell that isn't the case. It's only the hardcore PC crowd that really wants it to stay despite it needing more tiers to truly determine skill level... which cant happen because then there'd be more segregation between districts. Edit: Imagine this - You just got the game, you're playing but you barely know jack about the game. You're mechanically better than your teammates and then bam you're gold, now you can't play with your silver/bronze friends that like to play in bronze, if you leave the district. Should you try to join them, assuming you even know/remember how to do it, you get an error. You could say well just deal with it, but remember that most normal people play games to play with others. This is mainly why there aren't many new players. An even more close to home example would be that this is why I couldn't get my other friends to even touch the game past trainee. On the other hand, in this new instance, the only thing they have to worry about is the opponents... and learning the game. The game is simply too small to have a tier/threat system, which isn't even that good to begin with - like I said, it would need more tiers, more players, and more competitive fairness. This is why what APB had to begin with was fine, the fact that you could go to any district regardless of what rank you were was good - this was with its issues though, despite the penalties you would get. Threat-less, on the other hand, is even better because you can't pick your op, the matchmaking does. Threat district hopping is impossible and the purpose of dethreating is null. You're just playing. The. Game.

Theoretically? Maybe. I am going to have to disagree with it in actual practice though... since it doesn't seem to actually take rank and playtime that into account. Also not to mention that I've seen outright times that the game thought a 2v4 was fair, meaning the two individuals couldn't call back up. This was even on a segregated district system. The issue with that is you're at a disadvantage just by sheer player count. What it should try to do is give the op 2 golds and give the other 4 silver teammates. This sometimes happens... but never consistently enough. But let's say my observations were extremely limited and only happened in those cases ever. The interesting thing is you bring up how unbalanced it is being non-segregated... but you're forgetting barely anyone on Console is complaining about matchmaking based on skill. They're not segregated by threat either, that's the funny thing. The only thing making console people quit/complain is the lack of updates and cruddy optimization ( and maybe occasionally toxic players I guess, cause u know... APB community). There are many good console players out there too, it's not like they all suck. Even funnier is that no one in APB used to really care about what district others were in back when I first started. Sure they cared about being gold/silver but never complained about people being in the wrong district. I know I was never harassed for it the times I did it. This is only in a post e-sports era that this is even an issue - from what I am noticing anyway. The funny thing is, unless APB completely changes its weapon/progression system, it will never be fair.

I don't understand why my last post was disliked to all hell, so I think people missed the point - either that or they just don't want APB to let people play with each other. Basically the matchmaking is the true problem with the game. Not the threat. We wouldn't need the threat if it wasn't for bad matchmaking. I don't see whats so bad about what I said since literally every other LIVING game has decent matchmaking opposed to segregating you from the same world as other players. I know APB has some Matchmaking, but it's not at its full potential. But I am sure there will be dislikes on this post too since maybe that's not what people want, I guess they just want to stomp on bronzes all the time lol

For those who dislike fighting golds, I hope you know the legit bronze people would like a word with you. In fact, they are probably very happy that they can have gold players on their team against silver players that would normally stomp them constantly. But we don't talk about that - despite the fact that this matchmaking method works in every other game. In fact, the most enjoyable times I had with a game like early Overwatch, Counter-Strike, Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc. was when I was fighting a mixed bag of players... not just people on the same skill level. Overcoming the people who were better than me or just taking a some breather and stomping people - that was a nice appeal. This is why the old server selection in games like TF2 was interesting because you never knew who you were going to fight. The way I see it, it's not like it's any different from the threat segregation when a gold player DT's (which happens all the time... hence why Bronze districts always have more players than silver). People who were getting stomped before are getting stomped with a chance of getting someone who is better able to help them as backup now. For example, I was paired up with two low rank silvers against 4 silver players near max rank. It was a very enjoyable match where in any other normal instance they would have had to fight a handful of 255 or near max rank silvers with the possibility of getting two/three feeding bronzes as their teammates. I just can't possibly see how removing threat segregation is a bad thing, but perhaps there could be another matchmaking system overhaul - I understand it doesn't always work out well (in that example, I was not able to call backup so if I was unable to help those two silvers we would have had no chance), which tbh is probably more of what people are unhappy about when removing threat segregation. Plus the eventual re-balance of the weapons might help a little too who knows.

"Now that I can't play the game for a single day (or possibly two) out of the f****ing week, I now shall never play the game ever again. Even if it means the game will get better as a result, I don't care. I am off to purchase my chicken tendies at the PUB-O-G." Do you understand how unreasonable this is? You could use some sunlight. Edit: There are 365 days out of a year. Ya, no, you people just need to chill. Your a**es that actually paid money are getting compensated while they're making the game better, do you want an award or something??? It seems like no matter what, the devs can't win with you people.

Tbh I thought I was the only sane person for the longest while to realize APB is full of crybaby manchildren that want their stupid chicken tendies.

Wow... Get a hold of yourselves. WTF the world isn't ending, it's coming back.