What do you think ruined the game?

[yood 345]

The meaning of the proverb: To live is not to hurt, not to condemn anyone, not to annoy anyone, and all - my respect!

 

To live - not to 
hurt, not to condemn 
anyone, not to annoy anyone, 
and to all - my respect! 

Here in seemingly so easyrandom vskazyvaniya, a rhyme, a behavioral formula of incredible spiritual heights is given, the fulfillment of which directly leads to the purification of the heart: 

Said by the Lord Himself (John 16: 33): you will be mournful in the world ... The 

Elder himself revealsthe meaning of the proverb: 

These words clearly show that although all the places of the whole world come forth, you will not find the uncomfortable position anywhere; everywhere will be required and humility, and patience, and non-condemnation of others. Only these spiritual means acquire a peaceful dispensation of the soul, commensurate with how much we will reach for humility and long-suffering and non-condemnation of others ... 

If you want to put yourself on the solid path of salvation, first of all try to listen only to yourself alone, and leave the Divine Providence to you all and to their own will, and do not care for anyone to do the edification. It is not in vain to say: "The people of their affairs will either be glorified or shamed." So it will be more useful and salvific.

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Yood

[vsb 6171]

10 minutes ago, Yood said:

John 16: 33

i think you might be the first person to quote scripture on the apb forums, at least unironically

 

wild

[TzickyT 212]

fun if u come late to the party. my thoughts about it are already said troughout the whole topic

[anot1c 10]

8 hours ago, Yood said:

The meaning of the proverb: To live is not to hurt, not to condemn anyone, not to annoy anyone, and all - my respect!

 

To live - not to 
hurt, not to condemn 
anyone, not to annoy anyone, 
and to all - my respect! 

Here in seemingly so easyrandom vskazyvaniya, a rhyme, a behavioral formula of incredible spiritual heights is given, the fulfillment of which directly leads to the purification of the heart: 

Said by the Lord Himself (John 16: 33): you will be mournful in the world ... The 

Elder himself revealsthe meaning of the proverb: 

These words clearly show that although all the places of the whole world come forth, you will not find the uncomfortable position anywhere; everywhere will be required and humility, and patience, and non-condemnation of others. Only these spiritual means acquire a peaceful dispensation of the soul, commensurate with how much we will reach for humility and long-suffering and non-condemnation of others ... 

If you want to put yourself on the solid path of salvation, first of all try to listen only to yourself alone, and leave the Divine Providence to you all and to their own will, and do not care for anyone to do the edification. It is not in vain to say: "The people of their affairs will either be glorified or shamed." So it will be more useful and salvific.

 

what the fuck are you talking about

 

i have read about 10 of your posts and none of them have made any sense what so ever

 

i feel for everyone who has stuck around long enough to read 1600 of your beyond useless posts 

[LilyV3 323]

41 minutes ago, eMzg said:

what the fuck are you talking about

 

i have read about 10 of your posts and none of them have made any sense what so ever

 

i feel for everyone who has stuck around long enough to read 1600 of your beyond useless posts 

if you are that much annoyed by one users pointlessness to this forum, just put him on the ignore and you never have to read it again.

[LittleMoneyFirst 66]

3 hours ago, LilyV3 said:

if you are that much annoyed by one users pointlessness to this forum, just put him on the ignore and you never have to read it again.

 You can still read them when they are quoted...

[CookiePuss 5378]

1 hour ago, SillyBear said:

 You can still read them when they are quoted...

#1stWorldProblems

[Yvez 14]

As a returning player that started playing in RTW early access but hasn't played since about 2012, I can't comment much on what's happened during my hiatus but I can chip in as to what stopped me (and I suppose most of my friends) from logging in, finally. 

 

1. Primary reason was basic, normal fatigue for the game. I don't think I've ever played a single online game for more than 3+ years straight. I don't think I'm alone. You should all consider that most online games don't thrive for longer than a couple years, let alone the nine years apb has been about for.  It's an old game. 

 

2. This really is linked to the second reason which is just that it started off badly and was managed poorly by RTW. I'm not going into the long list of issues, most of us will know them by rote. But, apb was never as popular as it possibly should have been at launch. It wasn't as popular even as Counter Strike was at that stage. And CS was ancient by then. So, the natural attrition of players over the years had a head start, really. 

 

3. G1 Were my heroes, initially; without them, I'd never have played the game again after September 2010. But they just didn't have the resources to do what was really necessary. Or they didn't want to. Or, more likely, bought an IP that was never going to return nearly enough revenue to warrant the kind of investment apb actually needed (and still needs, I guess, though perhaps that horse has now bolted). So, yeh... Refer back to point 2. If RTW, may they rest in peace, had started it off better, things may have been very different. 

 

4. The infamous TTK change. We (me and my clan mates) all hated it, both in principal and in practice. Undoubtedly, the weapons needed work back then. But what happened irrevocably altered the whole feel of the game. We complained. A lot. We accepted our complaints were futile. We adapted. We got used to it (those of us who stuck it out) but I still remember how that severely impacted our love for the game. It sort of never was the same from that moment on and that was really early in G1's tenure. 

 

5. Threat, gold districts and, mainly player segregation. Almost the nail in the coffin. I've always advocated a smart, practical and seamless way to ensure we're closely matched to opponents of similar skill. G1 failed to deliver it. In a pretty big, messy way. Forced the horrible threat meta upon us. Didn't react nearly quickly enough. Severely reduced our enjoyment of the game. 

 

6. Armas was pretty expensive and I really disliked the rental approach. Thankfully, I see that LO have significantly improved this (so much so that I'm considering some small investment if I keep playing). 

 

I think that sums it up. Obviously, still no engine upgrade in all the years since isn't great. I can imagine how that would have killed off quite a lot of the population. 

 

I'm not convinced Riot will have a significant positive impact. Perhaps if it was introduced in 2010... New game modes are new content, which should be a positive thing. But if they're not integrated with the existing content in a very old game, they just segregate population more. This is only justified if it brings in/back enough players. 

 

I didn't come back because of riot. So we'll see what that brings and if it's fun enough to do. 

 

The game itself is still fun. I'd say the engine upgrade (and so the ability to match make across instances/jurisdictions) is really key. 

[LilyV3 323]

On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 4:59 PM, SillyBear said:

 You can still read them when they are quoted...

but you do not have to read them, just look who is quoted and skip that part, it's all just a matter of your own mental strength.

 

ignore just still helps to filter posts form having to do that all the time.

Edited May 22, 2019 by LilyV3

[LittleMoneyFirst 66]

On 5/21/2019 at 11:31 AM, Yvez said:

As a returning player that started playing in RTW early access but hasn't played since about 2012, I can't comment much on what's happened during my hiatus but I can chip in as to what stopped me (and I suppose most of my friends) from logging in, finally. 

 

1. Primary reason was basic, normal fatigue for the game. I don't think I've ever played a single online game for more than 3+ years straight. I don't think I'm alone. You should all consider that most online games don't thrive for longer than a couple years, let alone the nine years apb has been about for.  It's an old game.  

 

2. This really is linked to the second reason which is just that it started off badly and was managed poorly by RTW. I'm not going into the long list of issues, most of us will know them by rote. But, apb was never as popular as it possibly should have been at launch. It wasn't as popular even as Counter Strike was at that stage. And CS was ancient by then. So, the natural attrition of players over the years had a head start, really.  

 

3. G1 Were my heroes, initially; without them, I'd never have played the game again after September 2010. But they just didn't have the resources to do what was really necessary. Or they didn't want to. Or, more likely, bought an IP that was never going to return nearly enough revenue to warrant the kind of investment apb actually needed (and still needs, I guess, though perhaps that horse has now bolted). So, yeh... Refer back to point 2. If RTW, may they rest in peace, had started it off better, things may have been very different. 

 

4. The infamous TTK change. We (me and my clan mates) all hated it, both in principal and in practice. Undoubtedly, the weapons needed work back then. But what happened irrevocably altered the whole feel of the game. We complained. A lot. We accepted our complaints were futile. We adapted. We got used to it (those of us who stuck it out) but I still remember how that severely impacted our love for the game. It sort of never was the same from that moment on and that was really early in G1's tenure. 

 

5. Threat, gold districts and, mainly player segregation. Almost the nail in the coffin. I've always advocated a smart, practical and seamless way to ensure we're closely matched to opponents of similar skill. G1 failed to deliver it. In a pretty big, messy way. Forced the horrible threat meta upon us. Didn't react nearly quickly enough. Severely reduced our enjoyment of the game. 

 

6. Armas was pretty expensive and I really disliked the rental approach. Thankfully, I see that LO have significantly improved this (so much so that I'm considering some small investment if I keep playing). 

 

I think that sums it up. Obviously, still no engine upgrade in all the years since isn't great. I can imagine how that would have killed off quite a lot of the population. 

 

I'm not convinced Riot will have a significant positive impact. Perhaps if it was introduced in 2010... New game modes are new content, which should be a positive thing. But if they're not integrated with the existing content in a very old game, they just segregate population more. This is only justified if it brings in/back enough players. 

 

I didn't come back because of riot. So we'll see what that brings and if it's fun enough to do. 

 

The game itself is still fun. I'd say the engine upgrade (and so the ability to match make across instances/jurisdictions) is really key. 

Just my opinion: comment as a new player because after all those years you are just that in this game. No one cares if you played apb 20 years ago.

 

I laughed at 2, comparing it to cs? At this rate we could compare apb to harry potter... the only thing both games share in common is that you are able to fire guns. Dude seriously, your whole text has no weight whatsoever.

[gogol 53]

On 5/19/2019 at 10:41 PM, Yood said:

The meaning of the proverb: To live is not to hurt, not to condemn anyone, not to annoy anyone, and all - my respect!

 

To live - not to 
hurt, not to condemn 
anyone, not to annoy anyone, 
and to all - my respect! 

Here in seemingly so easyrandom vskazyvaniya, a rhyme, a behavioral formula of incredible spiritual heights is given, the fulfillment of which directly leads to the purification of the heart: 

Said by the Lord Himself (John 16: 33): you will be mournful in the world ... The 

Elder himself revealsthe meaning of the proverb: 

These words clearly show that although all the places of the whole world come forth, you will not find the uncomfortable position anywhere; everywhere will be required and humility, and patience, and non-condemnation of others. Only these spiritual means acquire a peaceful dispensation of the soul, commensurate with how much we will reach for humility and long-suffering and non-condemnation of others ... 

If you want to put yourself on the solid path of salvation, first of all try to listen only to yourself alone, and leave the Divine Providence to you all and to their own will, and do not care for anyone to do the edification. It is not in vain to say: "The people of their affairs will either be glorified or shamed." So it will be more useful and salvific.

 

same

[vsb 6171]

5 hours ago, SillyBear said:

Just my opinion: comment as a new player because after all those years you are just that in this game. No one cares if you played apb 20 years ago.

 

I laughed at 2, comparing it to cs? At this rate we could compare apb to harry potter... the only thing both games share in common is that you are able to fire guns. Dude seriously, your whole text has no weight whatsoever.

im curious what game you would say apb is most similar to

[Yvez 14]

6 hours ago, SillyBear said:

Just my opinion: comment as a new player because after all those years you are just that in this game. No one cares if you played apb 20 years ago.

 

I laughed at 2, comparing it to cs? At this rate we could compare apb to harry potter... the only thing both games share in common is that you are able to fire guns. Dude seriously, your whole text has no weight whatsoever.

Thanks for your reply. 

 

The sole point I was making is that apb started life badly, could have been handled better initially and really should have been much more successful early on than it was.

 

By all means, if you'd like to rebut that point I'm very interested to see what your thoughts are. Definitely a lot more than your two logical fallacies you lead with here (strawman and ad hominem). 

 

PS I chose CS as my example not because it is a shooter and definitely not because I thought apb is at all similar to it. Around the time I recall CS was still one of the most populous Steam games. Apb didn't come close. 

 

I think it should have. It's a shame it didn't. It's directly linked to the state of the game today. 

[LittleMoneyFirst 66]

27 minutes ago, Yvez said:

Thanks for your reply. 

 

The sole point I was making is that apb started life badly, could have been handled better initially and really should have been much more successful early on than it was.

 

By all means, if you'd like to rebut that point I'm very interested to see what your thoughts are. Definitely a lot more than your two logical fallacies you lead with here (strawman and ad hominem). 

 

PS I chose CS as my example not because it is a shooter and definitely not because I thought apb is at all similar to it. Around the time I recall CS was still one of the most populous Steam games. Apb didn't come close. 

 

I think it should have. It's a shame it didn't. It's directly linked to the state of the game today. 

Any game starts badly... it gains popularity if it is worth and fun.

Check any succesful game.

 

"Strawman and ad hominem" LOL. Where do u come from, resetera?

[neophobia 216]

6 hours ago, SillyBear said:

Just my opinion: comment as a new player because after all those years you are just that in this game. No one cares if you played apb 20 years ago.

 

I laughed at 2, comparing it to cs? At this rate we could compare apb to harry potter... the only thing both games share in common is that you are able to fire guns. Dude seriously, your whole text has no weight whatsoever.

how so? he played it till threat segregation - at least - after that, apb didnt even see thaaat many changes. he obviously experienced a lot of the game. and he literally is speaking from his experiences, which all seem somewhat relevant. and they literally are what ruined the game for him and he returned? if he was new, he couldnt really comment on what ruined the game for him.

i really dont get what kind of point you want to make here.

 

the comparison to cs... yeah, cs was old but always had a bigger and more thriving community - because of its roots too. apb never had that.

but yeah... just not having deep roots doesnt meab a game cant be successful... hm. idk.

i also think despite being shooters they are fundamentally different but still somewhat cater to the same audience? there are no real similarities despite being shooters and somewhat competitive. (obviously isn't nearly ad competitive though) but i think this is already enough to be able to compare the games somewhat.

 

 

[LittleMoneyFirst 66]

1 hour ago, Glaciers said:

im curious what game you would say apb is most similar to

I doubt i ever played something similar to apb... the most close it was a third person shooter (forgot the name) but thats it.

You can't simply compare apb to anything really.

1 minute ago, neophobia said:

how so? he played it till threat segregation - at least - after that, apb didnt even see thaaat many changes. he obviously experienced a lot of the game. and he literally is speaking from his experiences, which all seem somewhat relevant. and they literally are what ruined the game for him and he returned? if he was new, he couldnt really comment on what ruined the game for him.

i really dont get what kind of point you want to make here.

 

the comparison to cs... yeah, cs was old but always had a bigger and more thriving community - because of its roots too. apb never had that.

but yeah... just not having deep roots doesnt meab a game cant be successful... hm. idk.

i also think despite being shooters they are fundamentally different but still somewhat cater to the same audience? there are no real similarities despite being shooters and somewhat competitive. (obviously isn't nearly ad competitive though) but i think this is already enough to be able to compare the games somewhat.

 

 

They are diferent games "new" apb and the old one. Saying that he misses the old wont help in anything.

[Yvez 14]

Thanks again for your further replies. I enjoyed reading them a great deal. 

 

The only thing I really miss about the first iteration of APB is the TTK. Quite a lot of everything else in the current iteration is better than RTW's initial build. 

 

You're right, some games start slowly and build momentum over years. Though I don't know of any that became AAA+ successful after the developer went bust within three months of launching the game. 

 

That's quite some momentum if such a game exists. 

 

Let's try a couple direct questions: Do you think the launch of RTW was a success? Can you cite more than one example of a game that launched, was shut down within the first year and then went on to be a huge success? 

 

That's actually me being genuinely interested to know. Because my point is the game started really... really badly. I'm keen to know why you disagree. 

 

Or, if you don't disagree, why you are arguing my point. 

 

[vsb 6171]

38 minutes ago, SillyBear said:

I doubt i ever played something similar to apb... the most close it was a third person shooter (forgot the name) but thats it.

You can't simply compare apb to anything really.

a fair point i guess

 

i do feel like cs players would be far more likely to enjoy apb than a variety of other shooters - both games are slower-paced, tactical, objective based shooters, and both have fairly simple arcade shooter gunplay

[LittleMoneyFirst 66]

Check succesful games or games that somehow manage to keep players hooked, check their pop history in steam charts...

If i forceful had to name one game, probably poe and warframe comes to my mind... all of these had shutdowns or big failures and managed to somehow survive. You that play the lawyer or attorney, why dont u look for that information yourself?

 

Can you stop with that annoying spacing from reddit please, thanks.

 

Merged.

 

23 minutes ago, Glaciers said:

a fair point i guess

 

i do feel like cs players would be far more likely to enjoy apb than a variety of other shooters - both games are slower-paced, tactical, objective based shooters, and both have fairly simple arcade shooter gunplay

I play(ed) cs since 1.5 and i really think it has no comparison with apb more than both has crosshair and you are able to fire guns.

Edited May 23, 2019 by SillyBear

[vsb 6171]

8 minutes ago, SillyBear said:

I play(ed) cs since 1.5 and i really think it has no comparison with apb more than both has crosshair and you are able to fire guns.

i'll take your word on that, ive only played csgo extensively enough to compare

[Yvez 14]

8 hours ago, SillyBear said:

Check succesful games or games that somehow manage to keep players hooked, check their pop history in steam charts...

If i forceful had to name one game, probably poe and warframe comes to my mind... all of these had shutdowns or big failures and managed to somehow survive. You that play the lawyer or attorney, why dont u look for that information yourself?

 

It's absolutely fine that you can't find any examples of games that were shut down and went on to be revived and gain critical acclaim. Although, out of "all of these" two examples you provided, I don't know what "poe" is (I can only guess that it's Path of Exile but that doesn't appear to have shut down or failed at any point) and Warframe, so far as I know, didn't result in the developer going bust regardless of its slow start and bad reviews.

 

But let us take these both as perfect examples of bad games turned good, for the sake of supporting your argument, which I think you may be forgiven for plucking out of thin air to support whatever it is you're trying to tell me (still not 100% clear by the way); this didn't happen with APB. This is a major reason, for me (and I stress "for me" because that was the basis of my OP), that APB didn't keep me playing for longer than I did; it started badly and even though it recovered with the help of G1, it stagnated and never really pushed on to generate an influx of new players, didn't generate enough revenue and, in the end, didn't move forward fast enough to keep me playing.

 

The reason this didn't happen with APB is because it's incredibly rare for a game where its developer actually goes bust within months of its release to go on and be a commercial success. The fact that APB is even still here is a miracle. A happy one for me, personally. But a miracle nonetheless; it's unsurprising that its development never attained the levels required to really make this game hugely successful. Like Warframe appears to be, for a really good example.

 

Can you please be more specific what you're trying to say, by the way? At this point, we know you think CS is not the same as APB (I also played CS and I totally agree with you on that point; that said, nowhere in any of my posts in this topic have I claimed otherwise). As useful a topic as that may be, I don't think it's got anything to do with this one, so I'm guessing you are really trying to tell me something else. I'm really interested to know what that is.

 

After all, you can't possibly be trying to persuade me that my account of my own reasons for leaving the game are wrong, because that would be daft.

 

PS Sorry but I don't use reddit. So, just for you, I've added some more spacing. I hope you like it!

 

Merged.

 

Sorry, can't edit my post but I wanted to add that if you maybe haven't picked up on it that I'm mostly being facetious with my posts to you. Whilst we probably disagree on a few things, I suspect that we both probably agree on a lot more (I didn't mention it but, let's face it, the rise of cheaters didn't help keep us playing and if anything can be said to “ruin” a game, then it’s cheaters - it was probably the final nail in the coffin for us - and I guess we can both agree that the game should have been better developed/supported over the years?)

 

I agree with you that CS isn't a good comparison for APB, although I wasn't trying to compare them. I also agree that your perspective (I assume you didn't start playing the game in 2010?) is likely to be different to mine. I do respectfully disagree that my perspective as a returning player is irrelevant, though; I have the benefit of experiencing the game at its inception, during G1's tenure and now, around a year after LO took over, and that insight allows me to draw a pretty clear conclusion that the game hasn't significantly changed (definitely not considering it's almost a decade old). So a lot of what I thought of the game before holds true now and I think the responsibility now squarely lies with LO to change my perception.

 

I don’t think the game’s popularity is likely to significantly change though. I’m guessing you agree with that.

 

[Uhtdred 235]

ddos attacks.

[LittleMoneyFirst 66]

On 5/23/2019 at 4:09 AM, Yvez said:

It's absolutely fine that you can't find any examples of games that were shut down and went on to be revived and gain critical acclaim. Although, out of "all of these" two examples you provided, I don't know what "poe" is (I can only guess that it's Path of Exile but that doesn't appear to have shut down or failed at any point) and Warframe, so far as I know, didn't result in the developer going bust regardless of its slow start and bad reviews.

 

But let us take these both as perfect examples of bad games turned good, for the sake of supporting your argument, which I think you may be forgiven for plucking out of thin air to support whatever it is you're trying to tell me (still not 100% clear by the way); this didn't happen with APB. This is a major reason, for me (and I stress "for me" because that was the basis of my OP), that APB didn't keep me playing for longer than I did; it started badly and even though it recovered with the help of G1, it stagnated and never really pushed on to generate an influx of new players, didn't generate enough revenue and, in the end, didn't move forward fast enough to keep me playing. 

  

The reason this didn't happen with APB is because it's incredibly rare for a game where its developer actually goes bust within months of its release to go on and be a commercial success. The fact that APB is even still here is a miracle. A happy one for me, personally. But a miracle nonetheless; it's unsurprising that its development never attained the levels required to really make this game hugely successful. Like Warframe appears to be, for a really good example.

  

Can you please be more specific what you're trying to say, by the way? At this point, we know you think CS is not the same as APB (I also played CS and I totally agree with you on that point; that said, nowhere in any of my posts in this topic have I claimed otherwise). As useful a topic as that may be, I don't think it's got anything to do with this one, so I'm guessing you are really trying to tell me something else. I'm really interested to know what that is.

  

After all, you can't possibly be trying to persuade me that my account of my own reasons for leaving the game are wrong, because that would be daft.

  

PS Sorry but I don't use reddit. So, just for you, I've added some more spacing. I hope you like it!

  

Merged.

 

Sorry, can't edit my post but I wanted to add that if you maybe haven't picked up on it that I'm mostly being facetious with my posts to you. Whilst we probably disagree on a few things, I suspect that we both probably agree on a lot more (I didn't mention it but, let's face it, the rise of cheaters didn't help keep us playing and if anything can be said to “ruin” a game, then it’s cheaters - it was probably the final nail in the coffin for us - and I guess we can both agree that the game should have been better developed/supported over the years?)

 

I agree with you that CS isn't a good comparison for APB, although I wasn't trying to compare them. I also agree that your perspective (I assume you didn't start playing the game in 2010?) is likely to be different to mine. I do respectfully disagree that my perspective as a returning player is irrelevant, though; I have the benefit of experiencing the game at its inception, during G1's tenure and now, around a year after LO took over, and that insight allows me to draw a pretty clear conclusion that the game hasn't significantly changed (definitely not considering it's almost a decade old). So a lot of what I thought of the game before holds true now and I think the responsibility now squarely lies with LO to change my perception.

 

I don’t think the game’s popularity is likely to significantly change though. I’m guessing you agree with that. 

 

God what a bunch of unnecessary blablery.

 

It doesn't matter much the game, you need to make it appealing in order to be succesful. There are plenty of points to be made but i dont want to type more because it would be a lot and i would skip stuff (not really brilliant mind here)... and a waste of time and effort. Just look for anyone to tell you what went wrong with apb step by step, it wont be me.

 

That you are and old player is pointless because the game changed. Bringing back stuff you enjoyed back then probably wont be a good idea bringing back today because people is ussed to this gamestyle, and it can probably open a new wound to bleed more players lol ("more").

 

Stop forcing your nonsense. I don't want to type book for you, i don't want to investigate for you, don't derail the fucking discussion with outdated gameplay and other games, no one cares.

 

 

[Havana 216]

On 5/3/2019 at 7:33 AM, Fortune Runner said:

On Colby we arranged a day for golds to be in gold and it got maxed out fast and stayed that way for hours.

Bronze and silver district waiting lately  is minor compared to that day.

The golds I talked to back then said they had a lot of fun.

That is what should happen. But the Golds on Jericho are to immature to even have an honest discussion about it! 

 

Merged.

 

On 5/20/2019 at 3:41 AM, Yood said:

The meaning of the proverb: To live is not to hurt, not to condemn anyone, not to annoy anyone, and all - my respect!

 

To live - not to 
hurt, not to condemn 
anyone, not to annoy anyone, 
and to all - my respect! 

Here in seemingly so easyrandom vskazyvaniya, a rhyme, a behavioral formula of incredible spiritual heights is given, the fulfillment of which directly leads to the purification of the heart: 

Said by the Lord Himself (John 16: 33): you will be mournful in the world ... The 

Elder himself revealsthe meaning of the proverb: 

These words clearly show that although all the places of the whole world come forth, you will not find the uncomfortable position anywhere; everywhere will be required and humility, and patience, and non-condemnation of others. Only these spiritual means acquire a peaceful dispensation of the soul, commensurate with how much we will reach for humility and long-suffering and non-condemnation of others ... 

If you want to put yourself on the solid path of salvation, first of all try to listen only to yourself alone, and leave the Divine Providence to you all and to their own will, and do not care for anyone to do the edification. It is not in vain to say: "The people of their affairs will either be glorified or shamed." So it will be more useful and salvific.

 

Wait wut, this from the guy with whom I am mostly agreeing with. 

But, has me in his ignore list for some unknown reason. 

[Fortune Runner 796]

1 hour ago, Havana said:

That is what should happen. But the Golds on Jericho are to immature to even have an honest discussion about it! 

Yes I have to admit when it comes to this the golds on Jericho are uncivilized compared to how Colby was.

Although there's a few who have said they would want to from time to time , no one has really pushed for the momentum for it to happen again.

It would take the  players to "man up" and just go to gold district until phasing is accomplished for APB