Can ex-cheaters really go legit?

[CookiePuss 5378]

5 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

if a cheater turns all his settings to zero, is he still cheating?

 

 

[vsb 6171]

1 minute ago, YakuzaStyle said:

Your question doesn't make any sense. Just because he turns off his cheats for 4 minutes doesn't mean that person isn't a cheater anymore. There's a guarantee he'll just turn it on again when he's losing.

i was just making fun of your fake profound post, you don't have to hyper analyze it lol

[YakuzaStyle 5]

44 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

i was just making fun of your fake profound post, you don't have to hyper analyze it lol

So you can't reply with anything constructive to counter my post, so now I'm fake. Makes perfect sense.

[CookiePuss 5378]

1 hour ago, YakuzaStyle said:

Cheaters never stop cheating, they only turn down their settings.

 

5 minutes ago, YakuzaStyle said:

So you can't reply with anything constructive to counter my post, so now I'm fake. Makes perfect sense.

OK, I'll bite.... Source?

[YakuzaStyle 5]

1 minute ago, CookiePuss said:

 

OK, I'll bite.... Source?

Source of what?

[vsb 6171]

21 minutes ago, YakuzaStyle said:

So you can't reply with anything constructive to counter my post, so now I'm fake. Makes perfect sense.

forgetting that this is the apb community, i thought such a ridiculously over-generalized statement like "Cheaters never stop cheating" was tongue-in-cheek humor (or at the very least bad satire) so i decided to play along

 

unfortunately this is the apb community, so apparently you were/are deluded enough to be completely serious 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2019 by BXNNXD
typo

[CookiePuss 5378]

3 minutes ago, YakuzaStyle said:

Source of what?

Oof... not off to a good start.

1 hour ago, YakuzaStyle said:

Cheaters never stop cheating, they only turn down their settings.

Source?

[YakuzaStyle 5]

Common sense. If that player was good at all to begin with, they wouldn't have downloaded them in the first place. Cheating isn't a choice, it's a mentality, one of a person who can't beat others without getting an advantage, and at the same time can't take losing.

 

When a cheater gets banned, he only learns how to avoid getting caught, and doesn't learn how to stop cheating. He just figures out ways to not be so blatant, that way he can't be detected as easily. That's why I said that they don't stop and only turn down their settings. Some cheaters will adjust their cheat to play above average, so they aren't as blatant to the human eye. While some cheaters will play mediocre against you the whole game, then cheat "in the clutch" because they know if they don't, they'll lose, which is easy to spot. Just because a cheater says he's not cheating, doesn't mean he isn't. Fact is, he could be cheating only when he needs to to look "legit".

 

Unfortunately, there's a lot of dumb people out there who take the word of an "ex-cheater" over people who've been playing games clean for years. Cheaters are in denial and will never admit to it unless they feel some sort of guilt over cheating. Like I said, cheating is a mentality, nothing stops a cheater from deleting the files, but nothing stops a cheater from downloading them again either. Cheaters lose the benefit of the doubt when they got banned/got caught cheating.

 

I've seen from many games in my experience of playing shooters people who were known cheaters, but want to act like they changed, and they really don't actually change to begin with. It's just them trying to say "I'm a pro, you just suck" without actually doing anything of value. Even if one cheater "changes his ways", that doesn't represent the other 99% of cheaters, and there's a guarantee he might go back to cheats if he can't deal with losing and not getting better.

 

So that's my source. Common sense and previous experience.

Edited April 26, 2019 by YakuzaStyle
Grammar editing.

[vsb 6171]

5 minutes ago, YakuzaStyle said:

So that's my source. Common sense and previous experience.

what happens when my common sense and previous experience contradict yours?

[CookiePuss 5378]

8 minutes ago, YakuzaStyle said:

~snip~

Yeah I didn't think you had any actual data.

This was just me having fun at your expense.

[UubeNubeh DaWog 136]

1 hour ago, YakuzaStyle said:

Common sense. If that player was good at all to begin with, they wouldn't have downloaded them in the first place. Cheating isn't a choice, it's a mentality, one of a person who can't beat others without getting an advantage, and at the same time can't take losing.

 

When a cheater gets banned, he only learns how to avoid getting caught, and doesn't learn how to stop cheating. He just figures out ways to not be so blatant, that way he can't be detected as easily. That's why I said that they don't stop and only turn down their settings. Some cheaters will adjust their cheat to play above average, so they aren't as blatant to the human eye. While some cheaters will play mediocre against you the whole game, then cheat "in the clutch" because they know if they don't, they'll lose, which is easy to spot. Just because a cheater says he's not cheating, doesn't mean he isn't. Fact is, he could be cheating only when he needs to to look "legit".

 

Unfortunately, there's a lot of dumb people out there who take the word of an "ex-cheater" over people who've been playing games clean for years. Cheaters are in denial and will never admit to it unless they feel some sort of guilt over cheating. Like I said, cheating is a mentality, nothing stops a cheater from deleting the files, but nothing stops a cheater from downloading them again either. Cheaters lose the benefit of the doubt when they got banned/got caught cheating.

 

I've seen from many games in my experience of playing shooters people who were known cheaters, but want to act like they changed, and they really don't actually change to begin with. It's just them trying to say "I'm a pro, you just suck" without actually doing anything of value. Even if one cheater "changes his ways", that doesn't represent the other 99% of cheaters, and there's a guarantee he might go back to cheats if he can't deal with losing and not getting better.

 

So that's my source. Common sense and previous experience.

 

Except from the same experience i can argue something else entirely. Besides common sense being vacuous.

 

There have been documented cases of Counter Strike ( You know of this game right?) PROFESSIONALS, that were caught cheating. Not 360 spin botting in tournaments, but changes so subtle that they lasted years before caught. Even then, those subtle "advantages" were so small, every single one of those pros would still be better than you at the game, that's a given. So at the very beginning its not only a case of being objectively "good" or not.

 

Cheating is not a biological disposition like being gay or disease. Cheating is a choice, at no point in time is a person so out of control that they can not decide whether to start cheating or stop cheating. Its a constant choice to turn on your pc, turn on the game and turn on cheats. Its a multiple stage choice. You cant choose to be gay or to stop having cancer.

 

"When a cheater gets banned, he only learns how to avoid getting caught, and doesn't learn how to stop cheating." - This is the WHOLE REASON why today, bans are delayed and take so long to enact. Delays hinder that kind of information gathering. Even if they use one part of a cheat they still wont know what they did while using it that gave themselves away.

 

Such as; following players no matter where they are on the map would gain more attention as opposed to being in the right area at the right time.

 

Unfortunately, theres a lot of dumb people who gain a bias towards themselves and others who have been playing games clean for years. Its not impossible for a cheater or ex cheater to change their mindset when it comes to playing games fairly. If nothing stops a cheater from deleting files or downloading them again, nothing is there to stop a "clean" player from copying those files or downloading them either. Everyone has the same opportunity to turn to the underground of gaming given their mentality. Just because you are "clean" now, does not mean you always will be, everyone started from 0.

 

It should be common sense to not stereotype large groups of people, instead of trying to figure out if a person does or doesn't represent the other 99%, maybe we should judge them on a case by case basis?

At the end of the day its up to them to change, no amount of belittling or strong arming people into justice is going to change that. So there is no point in accusing people of crimes that are yet to happen.

 

There are probably more productive things people can do to incentivize playing clean, instead of waiting in the shadows ready to call out "I knew it".

 

I guarantee i might have a stroke one day.

Edited April 26, 2019 by UubeNubeh DaWog

[onionopinions 22]

12 hours ago, UubeNubeh DaWog said:

There are probably more productive things people can do to incentivize playing clean, instead of waiting in the shadows ready to call out "I knew it".

Very true. Speaking of giving clean play incentives..

 

One thing I never understood the mentality of, is shit talking ex cheaters for not being as good as they were with cheats. I personally can't grasp the concept of making fun of somebody that decided to stop ruining the game and started doing the right thing. Being incredibly toxic towards them for their choice to play clean is only going to encourage them to go back to their old ways. Yeah, it's their decision and entirely up to them, but making fun of someone for playing legit is pretty stupid and toxic if you ask me when we should be happy they are no longer a negative part of the game.

Edited April 26, 2019 by onionopinions

[TheJellyGoo 343]

29 minutes ago, onionopinions said:

Very true. Speaking of giving clean play incentives..

 

One thing I never understood the mentality of, is shit talking ex cheaters for not being as good as they were with cheats. I personally can't grasp the concept of making fun of somebody that decided to stop ruining the game and started doing the right thing. Being incredibly toxic towards them for their choice to play clean is only going to encourage them to go back to their old ways. Yeah, it's their decision and entirely up to them, but making fun of someone for playing legit is pretty stupid and toxic if you ask me when we should be happy they are no longer a negative part of the game.

I will stop you right there. Let's not start shifting blame to the legit players for a cheaters relapse.

That's the very reason why they cheated in the first place... they chose to cheat for whatever petty reason and decided to ruin the game for more than just some individuals.

Going back to cheating because some frustrated players don't show appreciation or hand out a medal for your "good deed" show that the cheater hasn't changed at all and that the whole excuse of coming clean was a load of bs. Do I think that it might be tough to pull through and show to be a better person when not everyone accepts it with a smile? Definitely, but that is not something one can demand after having decided to cheat in the past. It is an ungrateful task that one has to accept when willing to turn their back on cheating. Having said that there are probably cases where the line gets crossed and an ex-cheater has to face an unreasonable amount of toxicity and that is certainly also wrong.

 

[onionopinions 22]

no one is looking for a medal. I just fail to see how making fun of people for going legit is a good idea.

Edited April 26, 2019 by onionopinions

[TheJellyGoo 343]

That was a metaphor for the general mindset that ex-cheaters might have but aren't eligible to have.

As to what treatment those really deserve seem to be a case to case for me. Though no matter what if they are honest about it then it shouldn't even be relevant as described in my post above.

 

I can see reason on both sides and will admit a certain degree of bias towards anti-cheater.

Having played online games for so long and being competitive by nature there is just so much I can forgive at some point.

Edited April 26, 2019 by TheJellyGoo

[Kreddy 5]

once a cheater, always a cheater. 

[CookiePuss 5378]

13 minutes ago, Dazark said:

once a cheater, always a cheater. 

Irony, I love it. 

[Fortune Runner 796]

22 hours ago, YakuzaStyle said:

Common sense

no its not.

just your delusional opinion thinking if someone screws up they must be pure evil and nothing else.

some people change

some alcoholics go turn their lives around which  is much harder to do than just not cheat on a game.

some  exaggerations from me of course  , but relevant as an example of your judgmental nature vs facts in life that we have all witnessed already

[UubeNubeh DaWog 136]

10 hours ago, onionopinions said:

Very true. Speaking of giving clean play incentives..

 

One thing I never understood the mentality of, is shit talking ex cheaters for not being as good as they were with cheats. I personally can't grasp the concept of making fun of somebody that decided to stop ruining the game and started doing the right thing. Being incredibly toxic towards them for their choice to play clean is only going to encourage them to go back to their old ways. Yeah, it's their decision and entirely up to them, but making fun of someone for playing legit is pretty stupid and toxic if you ask me when we should be happy they are no longer a negative part of the game.

 

Cheating mentality is not hard to understand, it might be hard to accept but its by no means a hyper complex state of mind.

Its mostly a means to an end, and those being money or fame or recognition or respect either from others or themselves.

[Kanashimi 39]

Once a cheater, always a cheater.

[ElectroStingz 53]

It depends on the reason why the person started cheating in the first place and what people don't realise is that cheating is not just about downloading the software and using it.

 

The drive to cheat is psychological, it's all about the person's state of mind.
- Would you cheat?
- Why would you cheat?

- Can't stand losing
- Aggressive player
- Always complaining and blaming team mates
- not willing to improve
- no patience

- lack of understanding
- feel humiliated by losing
- pressure to look good by others
- pressure to fit it
- finding a group of friends
- being someone
... endless list of reasons

 

Trauma based cheating

Those that start off as genuine players but constantly fail and believe they are not good enough to get better and need to impress to feel better about themselves are the ones that will have a hard time quitting. Once the cheating starts it is a way to relive stress and help that person deal with their "problems". They will have a very hard time quitting as pulling the plug is going to take them back to the low point which initially triggered the cheating mind. You might have even seen this yourself, those players that start out with enthusiasm but eventually it turns to constant moans and groans, always beating themselves up and looking / sounding depressed. If they stream you'll see the change from start to end, once they start cheating the enthusiasm goes, instead they just play the game, still complaining but that excitement about them is lost. Like most trauma based minds, a sense of numbness becomes normal.

 

Cheating to make friends
Similar to trauma based, some players use the internet as a social ground to be someone. If you cannot fit in with the crowd you might be a lonely soul. So if these people start cheating to get noticed and become part of a bigger community, it is to them a form of comfort. It will also be hard for them to stop cheating if it means losing friends.

 

Cheating due to mental age
Young players / immature minds often do not understand the reasons why cheating is wrong. The whole sense of responsibility and respect is non existent and why should it exist online? These people are still growing up and cheating is a form of experimentation. They can stop if they mature but the path of cheating can lead them to a life of cheating if they are effected by any of the above.

 

Cheating to make a point / cheat crusader
The people that are out there to provoke cheaters. They feel the need to cheat and further ruin the experience for others because the game is invested with cheaters. They want things to improve but no one is listening, they know how to help and fully understand the issues but for whatever reason they hate the developers and whole community. To them their actions are doing some kind of justice but at the expense of the ones that genuinely do not cheat. These type of players are open in everything they do and are not trying to hide the cheating, it is not about the winning but causing maximum disruption to make a point. They can stop cheating quite easily.

 

Cheating to try it out
There are people that wonder what it is like to start cheating and will try it.
They will mess around for a bit and eventually see that the cheating kills all form of excitement for the game. These people will stop without issues and never go back.

 

Genuine players
Effected by all the above but truly decent people would never consider cheating.

It can be difficult to stop cheating and at the same time a lot of people choose the easy path or fail to deal with their issues. To quit cheating means changing yourself and a lot of people out there do not have the drive / courage to do so.

 

A drive to win doesn't make you more prone to cheating.

- I want to win so I am going to get better. <ask yourself, what type of people fall into this category.
- I want to win so I am going to cheat. <ask yourself, what type of people fall into this category.

 

It all comes down to the persons state of mind. (mental capacity, reasoning, morales, ethics, beliefs...)

Can cheaters go legit? Yes.

[vsb 6171]

who knew we had so many accomplished psychologists within the apb community :^)

[Queen of Love 452]

"Nobody cheats in APB, git gud noobs."    F.

 

(Common response of a well known banned&rebanned^3 to any legit doubt in any Silver district chat )

 

OP: depends. Mostly are so bad that cheats could be considered a good support for their mental deficit.

In other case there are nice people that stop cheat forever if they discover how much they are really apprecciated .

cause sometime cheaters are nothing else than people that need popularity.

 

TL:DR

for stop abusing cheats,first rule is stop join who abuse cheats.

 

PS:

remove out of bounds, nobody of Stunt's club of friday night has never been banned.

Recover the good old people of APB and cheaters will decrease.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheJellyGoo 343]

8 hours ago, BXNNXD said:

who knew we had so many accomplished psychologists within the apb community :^)

Is that a request for a psychoanalysis? However I fear you're so far gone that not even one of us experts here will be able to help you 

Edited April 27, 2019 by TheJellyGoo

[vsb 6171]

Just now, TheJellyGoo said:

Is that a request for a psychoanalysis? However I fear you're so far gone that even no one of us experts here will be able to help you 

no no, i was diagnosed with a severe lack of brain cells years ago

 

i fear it may be terminal tbh