Nhvr nerf.

[SyllyBear 20]

1 minute ago, Crusade said:

First, I never claimed to be "inteligant."

But you are mocking people for being less intelligent, what damage.

 

1 minute ago, Crusade said:

Second, it was a joke. I already stated that there were a lot of things wrong with this game that caused people to leave, but you prove your lack of intelligence for the 37th time today by completely misunderstanding everything that has ever been said on these forums since its creation.

...

"You dont read minds, you lack of inteligence".

 

I am done, you are blocked now.

[crusade 89]

1 minute ago, SyllyBear said:

I am done, you are blocked now.

What do I win?

[vsb 6174]

1 minute ago, Crusade said:

What do I win?

you get to save some brain cells 

[Flaws 1033]

First and foremost, the main problem with the heavy HVR wasn't even quickswitching. It was annoying but it's only a part of the bigger problem with it. The biggest issue is the damage output you can do at up to 100m range with it while using distance as a powerful cover from enemy fire with MOST weapons (not all). I personally think it breaks missions completely when you have an HVR sitting 80m out behind cover while tagging everyone for a bigger portion of their total health. I believe that the Scout is a more balanced choice, could give it slightly more damage/range or something else. If you want a more flexible long range weapon you can pick up an OBIR or an Obeya rifle, but the heavy HVR is just game breaking as it gives way too much of an advantage to the team that utilizes one.

 

Regarding the changes, I personally dislike random weapon mechanics that make no sense or are OVERLY unrealistic (not saying that APB is supposed to be realistic, don't get me wrong). Sadly, APB has had some of those for years. In terms of the HVR's case, while I can say that it was pretty fun jumpshooting in CQC with it, from a competitive standpoint, the HVR is a no-go even in it's current state (which is why it's forbidden in arranged match rulesets) due to how annoyingly overpowered it can be at range. However, removing weapons from the game completely is not likely to ever happen for a few reasons that should be obvious. So maybe further tweaking will be required.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Flaws

[SyllyBear 20]

8 minutes ago, Flaws said:

First and foremost, the main problem with the heavy HVR wasn't even quickswitching. It was annoying but it's only a part of the bigger problem with it. The biggest issue is the damage output you can do at up to 100m range with it while using distance as a powerful cover from enemy fire with MOST weapons (not all). I personally think it breaks missions completely when you have an HVR sitting 80m out behind cover while tagging everyone for a bigger portion of their total health. I believe that the Scout is a more balanced choice, could give it slightly more damage/range or something else. If you want a more flexible long range weapon you can pick up an OBIR or an Obeya rifle, but the heavy HVR is just game breaking as it gives way too much of an advantage to the team that utilizes one.

 

Regarding the changes, I personally dislike random weapon mechanics that make no sense or are OVERLY unrealistic (not saying that APB is supposed to be realistic, don't get me wrong). Sadly, APB has had some of those for years. In terms of the HVR's case, while I can say that it was pretty fun jumpshooting in CQC with it, from a competitive standpoint, the HVR is a no-go even in it's current state (which is why it's forbidden in arranged match rulesets) due to how annoyingly overpowered it can be at range. However, removing weapons from the game completely is not likely to ever happen for a few reasons that should be obvious. So maybe further tweaking will be required.

You really need to understand that the game offers a lot of variety... some missions offer you open areas, other close, others a few of both. When a mission offers you an open area thats when you pull out long distance weapons and there is nothing wrong with it.

So if you are maining a shotgun and an nfa (full close range), or you need to switch to a more suitable weapon to counter or protect yourself from those range weapons (specially nhvr or even dmr), or look for the way to get close to them as quick and safest possible, or ask a team to cover you. You know a sniper (pre nhvr nerf) can't do much against a rushing shotgun (or pointman).

When i had the luck  to play in groups with friends, we had a really experienced sniper that would cover us efficiently enough for us to reach the enemy or the objective.

 

Something alike would happen when you have to fight in really closed areas where you need to switch to pointman because you need a more efficient weapon for those kind of zones, and then a only sniper user comes to cry that pointman guns are way too op for him to handle in those areas or that his secondary is not strong enough to face pointman guns (?).

 

Is that why in a team vs team scenario the one with mixed weapons would work better than full of nhvrs. Is the job for the closest range to take down targets quickly while the longest range cover him.

Add bricks, shields, granades, ephinephrine (or whatever is called) and etc etc. that helps you to get closer to your enemy... nowdays is barely a problem honestly.

 

29 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

you get to save some brain cells 

Yeah, not so much it seems.

[crusade 89]

43 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

you get to save some brain cells 

Are those like... important or something ???

42 minutes ago, Flaws said:

First and foremost, the main problem with the heavy HVR wasn't even quickswitching. It was annoying but it's only a part of the bigger problem with it. The biggest issue is the damage output you can do at up to 100m range with it while using distance as a powerful cover from enemy fire with MOST weapons (not all). I personally think it breaks missions completely when you have an HVR sitting 80m out behind cover while tagging everyone for a bigger portion of their total health. I believe that the Scout is a more balanced choice, could give it slightly more damage/range or something else. If you want a more flexible long range weapon you can pick up an OBIR or an Obeya rifle, but the heavy HVR is just game breaking as it gives way too much of an advantage to the team that utilizes one.

 

Regarding the changes, I personally dislike random weapon mechanics that make no sense or are OVERLY unrealistic (not saying that APB is supposed to be realistic, don't get me wrong). Sadly, APB has had some of those for years. In terms of the HVR's case, while I can say that it was pretty fun jumpshooting in CQC with it, from a competitive standpoint, the HVR is a no-go even in it's current state (which is why it's forbidden in arranged match rulesets) due to how annoyingly overpowered it can be at range. However, removing weapons from the game completely is not likely to ever happen for a few reasons that should be obvious. So maybe further tweaking will be required.

There are two major problems with the HVR. One is a direct issue, and the other is an indirect issue.

 

First, the HVR's damage at 90 meters is not the problem. The problem is high damage at CQC, regardless if it's a quickswitch or not. If a heavy sniper rifle does not belong in a CQC environment, why not give it reverse damage drop off to keep it from being effective in those areas much like every single other weapon in the game.

 

The second major issue is the map design. Spawning in line of sight of an objective while on defense and having an HVR equipped is the epitome of what I'm talking about. Spawns should be in alleyways or in buildings (preferably close to vehicle spawners) to prevent snipers from immediately guarding objectives (this would prevent TDM/VIP rush downs as well). Areas surrounding objectives should have a bit more cover (a lot of areas have been slightly improved). Approaches to objectives should have significantly more cover. There should also be an increase in the number of line of sight blockers from vantage points so that snipers can lock down some approaches, but not all areas.

13 minutes ago, SyllyBear said:

Yeah, not so much it seems.

Careful, your insecurities might begin to show.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Crusade

[wHisHi 206]

1 hour ago, SyllyBear said:

Ironic, because from my years of playing apb since i was a filthy bronze to now, i never felt nhvr being op in any way and never, ever complained about it. But you decided to crap it, crying that is op and if it was paid, p2w for sure.

 

There is the good people with it that probably will make you suffer, and there is the bad that will suck so bad with it that they are a walking nhvr frag. But from all these players, you have plenty of tools to take them down easily. I don't see them nerfed...

 

You honestly are the ones that need to fucking learn to play and stop changing the game to be boring and crap, making people leave because apb is becoming a nerf trash pit.

Im crying about it? Mate did you forgot who have created this thread??

You are crying that you cant use long range weapon in cqc. Are you that stupid?  It suppose to be used in LONG RANGE distance shooting. I will repeat again - LONG RANGE.  All we see here is you crying about weapon that is not op at it was before. If you are so bad at this game after all these years of gameplay, maybe its time to actually learn how to play it. And hey, I will give you a pro tip: try searching for opinions of players that are actually good. Non of them ask for nhvr reverse, they only ask for bigger neft because they know how powerful nhvr is. Good luck

[Katchwi 1]

2 hours ago, wHisHi said:

Im crying about it? Mate did you forgot who have created this thread??

You are crying that you cant use long range weapon in cqc. Are you that stupid?  It suppose to be used in LONG RANGE distance shooting. I will repeat again - LONG RANGE.  All we see here is you crying about weapon that is not op at it was before. If you are so bad at this game after all these years of gameplay, maybe its time to actually learn how to play it. And hey, I will give you a pro tip: try searching for opinions of players that are actually good. Non of them ask for nhvr reverse, they only ask for bigger neft because they know how powerful nhvr is. Good luck

Probably not you, but some people enough to get it nerfed where it is.

[Darkzero3802 613]

The HVR in all regard is still a crutch as its still 850 damage with no range dropoff (unlike every other gun in the game). Not having this dropoff auto makes it op as it doesnt follow a mechanic for every other gun. Its still ez mode and can be abused at close range (percs anyone?) and i still see qs fairly often so all in all the nerf wasnt enough.

 

The HVR for starters should follow the damage dropoff mechanic like anything else in game which will make other snipers more viable as right now no other sniper can compete with the HVR (or buff damage on other snipers to compensate for the HVR). A slight damage nerf to somewhere between 725 and 760 should also solve the cqc bs and will make it so percs cant auto kill after taking a HVR shot. The scout is more intended for closer ranges as far as snipers go and should be more viable in such range then the HVR (but its not) Snipers arent meant for close range and the fact that the HVR is so dominating outside of its role isnt right and needs to be fixed for the overall gun balance in APB.

[Excalibur! 0]

27 minutes ago, Darkzero3802 said:

The HVR in all regard is still a crutch as its still 850 damage with no range dropoff (unlike every other gun in the game). Not having this dropoff auto makes it op as it doesnt follow a mechanic for every other gun. Its still ez mode and can be abused at close range (percs anyone?) and i still see qs fairly often so all in all the nerf wasnt enough.

 

The HVR for starters should follow the damage dropoff mechanic like anything else in game which will make other snipers more viable as right now no other sniper can compete with the HVR (or buff damage on other snipers to compensate for the HVR). A slight damage nerf to somewhere between 725 and 760 should also solve the cqc bs and will make it so percs cant auto kill after taking a HVR shot. The scout is more intended for closer ranges as far as snipers go and should be more viable in such range then the HVR (but its not) Snipers arent meant for close range and the fact that the HVR is so dominating outside of its role isnt right and needs to be fixed for the overall gun balance in APB.

Or just use scout...

My bets on next weapon destroying may be scout.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Excalibur!

[Flaws 1033]

3 hours ago, SyllyBear said:

You really need to understand that the game offers a lot of variety... some missions offer you open areas, other close, others a few of both. When a mission offers you an open area thats when you pull out long distance weapons and there is nothing wrong with it.

So if you are maining a shotgun and an nfa (full close range), or you need to switch to a more suitable weapon to counter or protect yourself from those range weapons (specially nhvr or even dmr), or look for the way to get close to them as quick and safest possible, or ask a team to cover you. You know a sniper (pre nhvr nerf) can't do much against a rushing shotgun (or pointman).

When i had the luck  to play in groups with friends, we had a really experienced sniper that would cover us efficiently enough for us to reach the enemy or the objective.

 

Something alike would happen when you have to fight in really closed areas where you need to switch to pointman because you need a more efficient weapon for those kind of zones, and then a only sniper user comes to cry that pointman guns are way too op for him to handle in those areas or that his secondary is not strong enough to face pointman guns (?).

 

Is that why in a team vs team scenario the one with mixed weapons would work better than full of nhvrs. Is the job for the closest range to take down targets quickly while the longest range cover him.

Add bricks, shields, granades, ephinephrine (or whatever is called) and etc etc. that helps you to get closer to your enemy... nowdays is barely a problem honestly.

Yes, but that doesn't excuse the amount of damage it deals in 1 simple point and click at that insane range where you are unreachable. There are more balanced weapons out there that can cover you from long range like I already mentioned. It doesn't take much skill or anything at all in fact, to point and click to basically secure a free kill for any of your team mates. Besides, you'd probably be silver and living in the bronze district if you play with a shotgun and a CQC secondary, especially one like the NFA. (and yes, I am taking on your example since I guess that's something that you or someone you know would do.)

3 hours ago, Crusade said:

There are two major problems with the HVR. One is a direct issue, and the other is an indirect issue.

 

First, the HVR's damage at 90 meters is not the problem. The problem is high damage at CQC, regardless if it's a quickswitch or not. If a heavy sniper rifle does not belong in a CQC environment, why not give it reverse damage drop off to keep it from being effective in those areas much like every single other weapon in the game.

 

The second major issue is the map design. Spawning in line of sight of an objective while on defense and having an HVR equipped is the epitome of what I'm talking about. Spawns should be in alleyways or in buildings (preferably close to vehicle spawners) to prevent snipers from immediately guarding objectives (this would prevent TDM/VIP rush downs as well). Areas surrounding objectives should have a bit more cover (a lot of areas have been slightly improved). Approaches to objectives should have significantly more cover. There should also be an increase in the number of line of sight blockers from vantage points so that snipers can lock down some approaches, but not all areas.

Because those types of weapon mechanics are frustrating if anything and don't belong in a game that wants to be competitive (at some point in the future). You don't see the AWP in CS:GO dealing less damage in CQC or even the railgun in Quake? Things must be consistent.

 

While I agree that the spawn system is one of APB's biggest banes, I still don't think that that would really help the HVR situation. It's not necessary to get killed and to spawn 90m in LoS behind a player to be an effectively annoying HVR user who points and clicks once to win for free. There's a reason why there's a joke about silvers and bronzes (mainly new players) being extremely dangerous with HVR. It takes no skill/experience/knowledge about the game to be effective with it.

 

Level design is something that needs to be looked at heavily for both FIN and WF regardless of weapon balancing in the future, there's no doubt about it. But I still think that the HVR will find a way to be annoyingly effective with no real skill required behind it.

 

 

Again, for both of you, I must remind you that the heavy HVR is not allowed in arranged matches which is where high/top tier players get together and play by a ruleset that makes the matches fair and no cheese is allowed. That should tell you something on it's own.

[neophobia 216]

4 hours ago, SyllyBear said:

And was not nhvr.

You are the one with lack of inteligence if you dont know how to properly counter a nhvr, which i never had major problems against it.

 

They added plenty of tools to counter it, use them. That you are bad countering weapons is not the game fault, but yours.

Sorry that it's not the crutch it used to be.

You are the one with lack of inteligence (lol) if you dont know how to properly play a nhvr, which i never had major problems with it.

 

They added plenty of ways to play it, use them. That you are bad playing weapons is not the game fault, but yours.

[Shui 225]

Where are all the people who said "damage isnt the problem" btw 

[_chain 176]

It has been nerfed? 

 

memes aside, there's plenty of ways you can still use your sniper in cqc. It just requires not jumping and actually aiming precisely. It's fun once you get the hang of it, for real. 

But why would you do that? If you want to play cqc get something intended for it and quit bitching in the forums. 

[crusade 89]

1 hour ago, Flaws said:

Because those types of weapon mechanics are frustrating if anything and don't belong in a game that wants to be competitive (at some point in the future). You don't see the AWP in CS:GO dealing less damage in CQC or even the railgun in Quake? Things must be consistent.

 

While I agree that the spawn system is one of APB's biggest banes, I still don't think that that would really help the HVR situation. It's not necessary to get killed and to spawn 90m in LoS behind a player to be an effectively annoying HVR user who points and clicks once to win for free. There's a reason why there's a joke about silvers and bronzes (mainly new players) being extremely dangerous with HVR. It takes no skill/experience/knowledge about the game to be effective with it.

 

Level design is something that needs to be looked at heavily for both FIN and WF regardless of weapon balancing in the future, there's no doubt about it. But I still think that the HVR will find a way to be annoyingly effective with no real skill required behind it.

 

 

Again, for both of you, I must remind you that the heavy HVR is not allowed in arranged matches which is where high/top tier players get together and play by a ruleset that makes the matches fair and no cheese is allowed. That should tell you something on it's own.

Let's not compare this game to CS nor Quake, seeing as how this game is nothing like either of those games. In fact, there isn't a single game out there that is quite like APB, thus why G1 had such a difficult time making balance changes because they had no real example to follow.

 

While I'm not opposed to nerfing the base damage of the HVR, I'm confident doing so wouldn't change the state of the weapon as much as you are hoping. The reverse damage drop-off would restrict the weapon from being used outside it's intended ranges, and I was pointing out that every other weapon in the game already has this restriction, so why should the HVR be completely exempt? If the HVR didn't start doing real damage till say 50m and you have an FBW. That's a 20 meter deadzone. Suddenly, you actually have to worry about positioning as a sniper (w0w), and you actually have to fear enemies with CQC weapons because you can't cover pop behind a short stack of pallets or whatever.

 

If there was a significant increase of cover on approach to objectives and vantage points, you would be able to flank snipers without being spotted. This would be a huge game changer, because even with reverse damage drop-off, if your flank gets called out, enemy teammates can easily intercept you and defend their sniper.

 

Oh and trust me, I'm entirely aware of the restrictive rulesets required to make this game even remotely competitive.

[Flaws 1033]

20 minutes ago, Crusade said:

While I'm not opposed to nerfing the base damage of the HVR, I'm confident doing so wouldn't change the state of the weapon as much as you are hoping. The reverse damage drop-off would restrict the weapon from being used outside it's intended ranges, and I was pointing out that every other weapon in the game already has this restriction, so why should the HVR be completely exempt? If the HVR didn't start doing real damage till say 50m and you have an FBW. That's a 20 meter deadzone. Suddenly, you actually have to worry about positioning as a sniper (w0w), and you actually have to fear enemies with CQC weapons because you can't cover pop behind a short stack of pallets or whatever.

That just sounds like a way to kill the weapon in favor of any of the other free to play long range options since they wouldn't be restricted like that. There are too many advantages to any of the others over what you are suggesting for the HVR. For example an OBIR which can still quickswitch just fine with only a 3PS3 on it. But yeah, if you want to make it lot less popular then sure. The only real upside it would have is the higher damage at extreme ranges which would almost never be enough to keep the gun in the meta imo.

[vsb 6174]

3 hours ago, Darkzero3802 said:

The HVR in all regard is still a crutch as its still 850 damage with no range dropoff (unlike every other gun in the game). Not having this dropoff auto makes it op as it doesnt follow a mechanic for every other gun. Its still ez mode and can be abused at close range (percs anyone?) and i still see qs fairly often so all in all the nerf wasnt enough.

 

The HVR for starters should follow the damage dropoff mechanic like anything else in game which will make other snipers more viable as right now no other sniper can compete with the HVR (or buff damage on other snipers to compensate for the HVR). 

the hvr does have a dropoff, it starts at 90m just like every other sniper rifle - in fact its pretty severe, going from 850 to 500ish damage in just 10m

 

 

 

 

[Darkzero3802 613]

17 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

the hvr does have a dropoff, it starts at 90m just like every other sniper rifle - in fact its pretty severe, going from 850 to 500ish damage in just 10m

 

 

 

 

The scout starts dropping at 50m so no. Its from there on where you gota shoot 3 to kill.

[vsb 6174]

Just now, Darkzero3802 said:

The scout starts dropping at 50m so no. Its from there on where you gota shoot 3 to kill.

the scout has a dropoff at 90m just like all sniper rifles

 

why are you even participating in balance discussions if you dont know basic information like this

[Kevkof 806]

1 minute ago, Darkzero3802 said:

The scout starts dropping at 50m so no. Its from there on where you gota shoot 3 to kill.

What scout did you test this with? The regular scout RT1 only starts dropping at 90m and the silenced scouts start dropping at 83m.

[CookiePuss 5382]

1 minute ago, Darkzero3802 said:

The scout starts dropping at 50m

[Darkzero3802 613]

1 minute ago, BXNNXD said:

the scout has a dropoff at 90m just like all sniper rifles

 

why are you even participating in balance discussions if you dont know basic information like this

Whenever I use my scout after 50m it takes 3 shots to kill instead of 2. Am I balanced diff then everybody else then?

Just now, Kevkof said:

What scout did you test this with? The regular scout RT1 only starts dropping at 90m and the silenced scouts start dropping at 83m.

I normally use the valentines scout which is modeled after the RT1 and I also have a reaper. Both start dropping after 50m for me.

2 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Then why is it that it takes 3 after 50m? I can count numerous times where less then 90m i had to shoot 3 times.

[vsb 6174]

Just now, Darkzero3802 said:

Whenever I use my scout after 50m it takes 3 shots to kill instead of 2. Am I balanced diff then everybody else then?

the only things that would cause a 3stk like that would be your opp using kevlar (any level) or ca3, which significantly boosts their regen time - enough to overcome the scouts minor overdamage if you wait too long (3.5s?) between the first and second shots

[CookiePuss 5382]

2 minutes ago, Darkzero3802 said:

Whenever I use my scout after 50m it takes 3 shots to kill instead of 2. Am I balanced diff then everybody else then?

I normally use the valentines scout which is modeled after the RT1 and I also have a reaper. Both start dropping after 50m for me.

Then why is it that it takes 3 after 50m? I can count numerous times where less then 90m i had to shoot 3 times.

Probably due to green character mods.

CA3 in particular can quickly turn your 2 shot into a 3 since you only deal 550 damage per shot.

[Darkzero3802 613]

2 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

the only things that would cause a 3stk like that would be your opp using kevlar (any level) or ca3, which significantly boosts their regen time - enough to overcome the scouts minor overdamage if you wait too long (3.5s?) between the first and second shots

2 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Probably due to green character mods.

CA3 in particular can quickly turn your 2 shot into a 3 since you only deal 550 damage per shot.

 

That make an even bigger point to nerf the HVR damage if that can change what it takes to kill against other snipers.