Kewlin's Big Shotgun Thread

[Kewlin 692]

4 minutes ago, Lign said:

Lets be real, gold is nothing at the current statement of the game, new players can get it by losing missions. if you faced such a bad player who can’t play with the gun that doesn’t even require to track enemy, that doesn’t mean that the gun is bad. Try to play in asylum on citadel for 2 hours in peak time, you’re going to see how wrong you’re 

 

First off, you're implying I never face any good Golds, which is dumb as fuck.

 

Second, I consider balancing the game around FC to be a bad idea, as it doesn't represent the actual game. Still, I've never been afraid of JGs in Asylum: they just aren't good.

[Lign 361]

34 minutes ago, Kewlin said:

 

First off, you're implying I never face any good Golds, which is dumb as fuck.

 

Second, I consider balancing the game around FC to be a bad idea, as it doesn't represent the actual game. Still, I've never been afraid of JGs in Asylum: they just aren't good.

The main playerbase of shotguns(innova) said that it’s a bit easier to play in financial with jg instead of oca if you’re in full premade, especially defending the target

[Kewlin 692]

6 minutes ago, Lign said:

The main playerbase of shotguns(innova) said that it’s a bit easier to play in financial with jg instead of oca if you’re in full premade, especially defending the target

 

I think citing the Innova playerbase might be stretching a little, not to mention that even then you're saying it's only a bit easier, and only if you're in a full premade in Fin, and mostly while defending at that.

[Lign 361]

10 hours ago, Kewlin said:

 

I think citing the Innova playerbase might be stretching a little, not to mention that even then you're saying it's only a bit easier, and only if you're in a full premade in Fin, and mostly while defending at that.

I don’t see the only word in my comment 

[Kewlin 692]

10 hours ago, Lign said:

I don’t see the only word in my comment 

 

The way grammar works "only" is not required, "if" will mean virtually the same thing in this case.

 

21 hours ago, Lign said:

if you’re in full premade

 

Unless you're referring to "only a bit easier," in which case, yet again, that's just what you effectively said even if it's maybe not what you meant.

[Noob_Guardian 417]

JG could use a 7-10m range, with a damage drop starting at 10m. Should be back to .7 ttk

 

CSG was strong before. I wouldnt mind going to a lower per pellet damage bonus, but the range max should be at 15m not 20m imo. I don't want it back to its "glory days" of 2012/14

 

Shredder was originally op from the changes, but the IR3 varient got the really short end of the stick with the current changes. (unless they rebuffed its ttk to .7, the IR3 fires at almost .85 for a weapon thats "somewhat" cqc to mid. Overall worse than pmg/oca when it comes to that variant. No real dislike towards the suggestion. It could use the accuracy

 

Strife - Loved the shotgun, one of my favorite, I disagree though, the range is really lacking since they nerfed its range a lot with the changes. Can't even run IR3 on it anymore to fix that issue. Used to love doing 2 hit kills at ~1s at 10m and 3 at 15m with the massive ttk, but due to the massive ttk increase that comes with IR and the changes, you really can't do it, let alone survive in cqc if you do put IR3 on...  I'd say put the range up to 12/13m from the current. I think it's what? 6/7m? at the moment?

Edited November 28, 2018 by Noob_Guardian

[vsb 6171]

2 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Strife was originally op

i dont think the strife has ever been op lol

[Noob_Guardian 417]

Just now, BXNNXD said:

i dont think the strife has ever been op lol

meant shredder, fixing

[Ketog 1031]

7 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Strife - Loved the shotgun, one of my favorite, I disagree though, the range is really lacking since they nerfed its range a lot with the changes. Can't even run IR3 on it anymore to fix that issue. Used to love doing 2 hit kills at ~1s at 10m and 3 at 15m with the massive ttk, but due to the massive ttk increase that comes with IR and the changes, you really can't do it, let alone survive in cqc if you do put IR3 on...  I'd say put the range up to 12/13m from the current. I think it's what? 6/7m? at the moment?

Do you even play the game ? ir doesn't increase the TTK anymore .

 

The way you're talking sounds like you didn't test shotties since the first balance patch they did

[Mozie 54]

Didn't bother reading the thread, anyone who knows how the game works knew the new pellet system would be horrible.

 

[vsb 6171]

48 minutes ago, Mozie said:

Didn't bother reading the thread, anyone who knows how the game works knew the new pellet system would be horrible.

 

at the risk of looking like i don’t know how the game works i don’t remember anyone specifically disliking the new pelllet system, just how forgiving orbit made it on the first balance pass

 

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by BXNNXD
typo

[Mozie 54]

1 hour ago, BXNNXD said:

at the risk of looking like i don’t know how the game works i don’t remember anyone specifically disliking the new pelllet system, just how forgiving orbit made it on the first balance pass

 

 

It's okay, you will.

[Excalibur! 207]

I stopped reading at increasing jg drop off range from 15 to 25.

Shotguns where fine were they were and touching them was a huge mistake. It took years to find a balance but they fucked it up. Once done that mistake after other mistakes you just lose confidence in anything that can be done. I doubt is worth spending time talking about balance anymore, just let them break the game as they please.

[Kewlin 692]

14 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

JG could use a 7-10m range, with a damage drop starting at 10m. Should be back to .7 ttk

 

10m is simply too short and would make the gun require IR3, as I covered in the OP.

 

14 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

CSG was strong before. I wouldnt mind going to a lower per pellet damage bonus, but the range max should be at 15m not 20m imo. I don't want it back to its "glory days" of 2012/14

 

The CSG was fine when it was 20-30m back before LO "buffed" it, and I'd probably continue to not use it much if it was only buffed to 15m.

 

I'm not asking for the gun to be OP like it was way back, I just want it to be a tiny bit better than before LO changed it (like LO wants.)

 

14 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Shredder was originally op from the changes, but the IR3 varient got the really short end of the stick with the current changes. (unless they rebuffed its ttk to .7, the IR3 fires at almost .85 for a weapon thats "somewhat" cqc to mid. Overall worse than pmg/oca when it comes to that variant. No real dislike towards the suggestion. It could use the accuracy

 

So. . . I'm going to just assume you haven't played the game since they reverted IR?

 

First off, the Shredder is nearly unchanged from before LO, and second, when it was OP it was OP because they buffed several aspects a ton. The Shredder is not currently OP, and I don't think a slight change to damage would make it OP.

 

14 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Strife - Loved the shotgun, one of my favorite, I disagree though, the range is really lacking since they nerfed its range a lot with the changes. Can't even run IR3 on it anymore to fix that issue. Used to love doing 2 hit kills at ~1s at 10m and 3 at 15m with the massive ttk, but due to the massive ttk increase that comes with IR and the changes, you really can't do it, let alone survive in cqc if you do put IR3 on...  I'd say put the range up to 12/13m from the current. I think it's what? 6/7m? at the moment?

 

Okay, yeah, you definitely haven't played in a bit. . . The SG-21 had its range reverted (albeit, LO didn't mention that its range was reverted.) The gun's a tiny bit better than it was before LO touched it now.

 

 

4 hours ago, Mozie said:

Didn't bother reading the thread, anyone who knows how the game works knew the new pellet system would be horrible.

 

Oh shit, you got me man, you just countered my whole fucking thread with a single sentence, I'm ashamed of myself.

 

No, but really, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with the new pellet mechanic, they just need to be used right.

 

 

2 hours ago, Excalibur! said:

I stopped reading at increasing jg drop off range from 15 to 25.

Shotguns where fine were they were and touching them was a huge mistake. It took years to find a balance but they fucked it up. Once done that mistake after other mistakes you just lose confidence in anything that can be done. I doubt is worth spending time talking about balance anymore, just let them break the game as they please.

 

You apparently stopped reading before that because I never said I wanted the JG to go 25m before it started dropping off, and it never had a 15m dropoff to begin with. . . unless you just can't write and you meant giving it a dropoff of 15-25m.

 

But yeah, I'm assuming you just can't read because I'm trying to get the JG closer to back how it was, and the post was pretty damned clear about that IMO. Plus, I made it perfectly clear several times in the thread that I'd be fine with shotguns being reverted instead of my suggestions being taken.

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

12 hours ago, Kewlin said:

 You apparently stopped reading before~ and so on

Take it from me, it's wasted breath on them

Edited November 29, 2018 by Weeb TheEpicGuyV2

[CookiePuss 5378]

Recruiting for my new clan "Kewlins big shotgun". 

 

HMU for deets. 

[Noob_Guardian 417]

12 hours ago, Ketog said:

Do you even play the game ? ir doesn't increase the TTK anymore .

 

The way you're talking sounds like you didn't test shotties since the first balance patch they did

I've been away for a about a month.. nvm its been two, between college, POE grinding for the recent league, and overwatch "trying" not to lose rank from degradation, i've had little time to play APB since a few weeks after the iteration of balance changes. I've tried to keep up with the forums though, but i guess i missed some things.

Edited November 29, 2018 by Noob_Guardian

[Noob_Guardian 417]

5 hours ago, Kewlin said:

 

10m is simply too short and would make the gun require IR3, as I covered in the OP.

 

 

The CSG was fine when it was 20-30m back before LO "buffed" it, and I'd probably continue to not use it much if it was only buffed to 15m.

 

I'm not asking for the gun to be OP like it was way back, I just want it to be a tiny bit better than before LO changed it (like LO wants.)

 

 

So. . . I'm going to just assume you haven't played the game since they reverted IR?

 

First off, the Shredder is nearly unchanged from before LO, and second, when it was OP it was OP because they buffed several aspects a ton. The Shredder is not currently OP, and I don't think a slight change to damage would make it OP.

  

 

Okay, yeah, you definitely haven't played in a bit. . . The SG-21 had its range reverted (albeit, LO didn't mention that its range was reverted.) The gun's a tiny bit better than it was before LO touched it now.

 

 

 

Oh shit, you got me man, you just countered my whole fucking thread with a single sentence, I'm ashamed of myself.

 

No, but really, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with the new pellet mechanic, they just need to be used right.

 

 

 

You apparently stopped reading before that because I never said I wanted the JG to go 25m before it started dropping off, and it never had a 15m dropoff to begin with. . . unless you just can't write and you meant giving it a dropoff of 15-25m.

 

But yeah, I'm assuming you just can't read because I'm trying to get the JG closer to back how it was, and the post was pretty damned clear about that IMO. Plus, I made it perfectly clear several times in the thread that I'd be fine with shotguns being reverted instead of my suggestions being taken.

Yeah been a few months, been busy with other stuff, was waiting for some changes and stuff to happen, and must have missed a much of stuff while forum ghosting.

 

Why would a 10m max range on JG before damage drop occur make it too weak? That's about as far as its really ever been "effective" in the first place. Other than taking 5+ shots to kill past 10m due to spread (least how i remember it). It can still be a powerhouse within that range though. I've never dared to fire a jg at 15m, because it takes 7-8 kills at that range. Thats like a 3-4 second ttk, its easier just to pistol, or wait for the enemy to come closer.

 

Why? You actually fire your csg shotgun at 15-25m ranges for kills? At that range you're far better off just switching to a pistol due to the spread. I can understand at 10-15 since it takes 3-5 shots, but 20m+ imo is smg ranges. Shotguns should tickle at that point.

 

I didn't even know there was an IR3 change. I stopped a week or two after they made IR3 effect weapons based on their maximum ranges, and there was talk about changing IR3 to have no ttk increase, but i wasnt around to see it happen.

 

Thank god for the strife revert though, that's my favorite shotgun and i was upset at the changes.

 

Shredder - i will have to pick up my ir3 preset again when i get the chance, the IR3 nerf hit it reaaaally hard in playability.

[Ketog 1031]

3 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

I've been away for a about a month.. nvm its been two, between college, POE grinding for the recent league, and overwatch "trying" not to lose rank from degradation, i've had little time to play APB since a few weeks after the iteration of balance changes. I've tried to keep up with the forums though, but i guess i missed some things.

LO did some more changes since the first ones , shredder is basically in it's sweetspot , but almost every other shotgun feels wrong / too weak

 

i wish i could show you the latest shotgun changes but im not sure where they are , ill update this post if i find them

Edited November 29, 2018 by Ketog

[Excalibur! 207]

On 11/28/2018 at 5:09 PM, Kewlin said:

 

You apparently stopped reading before that because I never said I wanted the JG to go 25m before it started dropping off, and it never had a 15m dropoff to begin with. . . unless you just can't write and you meant giving it a dropoff of 15-25m.

 

But yeah, I'm assuming you just can't read because I'm trying to get the JG closer to back how it was, and the post was pretty damned clear about that IMO. Plus, I made it perfectly clear several times in the thread that I'd be fine with shotguns being reverted instead of my suggestions being taken.

?

 

Anyways drop off barely maters in jg because the spread is fairly huge. It could have 100m that you would only land 1 pellet with plenty of luck.

Ir3 on it is just a meme.

 

And also i would want shotguns to get back where they were and so i voted that option.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Excalibur!

[Kewlin 692]

3 minutes ago, Excalibur! said:

Anyways drop off barely maters in jg because the spread is fairly huge. It could have 100m that you would only land 1 with plenty of luck.

Ir3 on it is just a meme.

 

And also i would want shotguns to get back where they were and so i voted that option.

 

I certainly won't disagree with you that range on the JG barely matters past a certain point due to the spread. 15m is more of a minimum requirement than anything; I was going to have a part talking about how it could be given more range I think, but I apparently left that out.

 

But yeah, a full revert would be fine by me, it just wouldn't be the best solution in my personal opinion.

[Excalibur! 207]

2 minutes ago, Kewlin said:

 

I certainly won't disagree with you that range on the JG barely matters past a certain point due to the spread. 15m is more of a minimum requirement than anything; I was going to have a part talking about how it could be given more range I think, but I apparently left that out.

 

But yeah, a full revert would be fine by me, it just wouldn't be the best solution in my personal opinion.

What was the jg drop off before its change? 20 or 30? I cant remember. Pointman guns were allways 30m.

[Kewlin 692]

23 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Why would a 10m max range on JG before damage drop occur make it too weak? That's about as far as its really ever been "effective" in the first place. Other than taking 5+ shots to kill past 10m due to spread (least how i remember it). It can still be a powerhouse within that range though. I've never dared to fire a jg at 15m, because it takes 7-8 kills at that range. Thats like a 3-4 second ttk, its easier just to pistol, or wait for the enemy to come closer.

 

That's simply not true, and if you'd played the JG much in the current version you'd understand just how awful and short 10m is. Plus, do you really think the JG is going to become OP with 15m range?

 

7-8 shots to kill at 15m is simply a gross over-estimation, and I hope that's hyperbole, lol. 15m is not very far my friend.

 

23 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Why? You actually fire your csg shotgun at 15-25m ranges for kills? At that range you're far better off just switching to a pistol due to the spread. I can understand at 10-15 since it takes 3-5 shots, but 20m+ imo is smg ranges. Shotguns should tickle at that point.

 

Yes, and saying you should just switch to a pistol at that range is ignoring that APB is a dynamic team based game.

 

Not only was it not hard at all to get kills with the CSG at 15m before, the CSG was able to rather reliably 5-shot at 20m before, (25m with IR3,) the CSG was able to assist teammates decently well at 15-20m. And even if you don't think the CSG was good at those ranges. . . isn't that all the more reason not to nerf it at those ranges? I don't really understand your logic here.

 

 

BTW, why are you arguing these points when you basically admit yourself that you've barely played at all with these changes? I'm confused.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Excalibur! said:

What was the jg drop off before its change? 20 or 30? I cant remember. Pointman guns were allways 30m.

 

The CSG and JG both started losing damge at 20 and went to min damage at 30.

[Noob_Guardian 417]

2 hours ago, Kewlin said:

 

That's simply not true, and if you'd played the JG much in the current version you'd understand just how awful and short 10m is. Plus, do you really think the JG is going to become OP with 15m range?

 

7-8 shots to kill at 15m is simply a gross over-estimation, and I hope that's hyperbole, lol. 15m is not very far my friend.

 

 

Yes, and saying you should just switch to a pistol at that range is ignoring that APB is a dynamic team based game.

  

Not only was it not hard at all to get kills with the CSG at 15m before, the CSG was able to rather reliably 5-shot at 20m before, (25m with IR3,) the CSG was able to assist teammates decently well at 15-20m. And even if you don't think the CSG was good at those ranges. . . isn't that all the more reason not to nerf it at those ranges? I don't really understand your logic here. 

 

 

BTW, why are you arguing these points when you basically admit yourself that you've barely played at all with these changes? I'm confused.

  

  

 

The CSG and JG both started losing damge at 20 and went to min damage at 30.

JG won't be "op" at 15m range, but it would hardly matter to begin with i feel due to its spread (it's worse than the csg's and isn't half as reliable). It normally takes 3 shots at 7m (even before LO changes) more range isn't going to help it much, especially since it's never been even half "good" past 10m (which would take 5-6 shots to begin with). CSG was always the one that could reach out and be good at it. While I agree it should reach out further than the JG, I do NOT want any semblence of return back to the 2014-16 CSG which is why i feel 20m for full damage pellot damage plus bonus is a bit much, while i know spread can help fix that, it would depend on how they would adjust the pellet bonus to compensate.

 

Clearly the team dynamic is lost on me when i have to solo que carry all day. APB is also a game where you should switch weapons based on location, enemy loadout, mission type, and adjust your sidearms for your primary weapon's weakness if it has any. Aka mid-long range with a cqc weapon, cqc with a long range primary, etc. It also has a damage drop mechanic which means that you have to also be aware of your weapon's range capabilities, radar, enemy vehicles, and in the case of shotguns, spread AND range. Having range doesn't help if you dont have the spread or accuracy to back it up.

 

If the csg was never good at those ranges why would it matter so much to you if it can fire at those ranges or not? If it's not good at those ranges why bother giving people the ability to try and just die like fools trying? Taking 6-7 shots at 20m is asking to be killed since that takes 3+ seconds. The CSG does feel weak, but i feel like that's more to spread than range due to the changes. I'm fine with it being 15m though.

[CookiePuss 5378]

1 minute ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Clearly the team dynamic is lost on me when i have to solo que carry all day.

Wait, you still play APB?
I thought you quit like a year ago.