ARMAS Store refresh and pricing changes

[Zolerox 564]

20 hours ago, Inquitoria said:

@MattScott With the price changes, as well as the recent changes to many guns (shotguns, IR, etc) is there any chance we could see weapon trials reset? I would like to test out some of the weapons, with their new prices/stats, before making a purchase.

I believe tiggs was "planning" to reset trials every month or 3rd month.

 

 

 

On 11/13/2018 at 4:34 PM, Kewlin said:

 

 

Just add it permanently to ARMAS please. . . I love fucking around with mine and I want everyone else to be able to feel the joy of using an SNR PR1.

 

I like to think of it as Tiggs' last gift to me: https://forums-old.gamersfirst.com/topic/407754-tiggs-snr-pr1-please/

I never got what I requested on armas though  

Edited November 23, 2018 by Zolerox
Well bub at least a nub got his snub

[OfficerEdd 0]

I'm honestly getting sick and tired of this type of business model as a whole. No matter how little the effect on gameplay. Microtransactions are fudamentally designed to pull money out of our pockets by disingenuous means.

The day I come back to this game is the day they drop this business model as a whole and instead make it pay to play again but god knows that will never happen :). I could start a whole new chapter about grinding for items and equipment but it would still be more enjoyable if they just let us unlock the ARMAS weapons.
 

My general opinion however is: 

• Grinding has to die as a game mechanic.
• Microtransactions need to die as a business model.

I never understood why peaple are only capable of enjoying a game if they had ranks to climb or stuff to unlock. It really strikes me as an arbitrary element. Shouldn't the game itself be enjoyable? 

[vsb 6171]

3 hours ago, OfficerEdd said:

I'm honestly getting sick and tired of this type of business model as a whole. No matter how little the effect on gameplay. Microtransactions are fudamentally designed to pull money out of our pockets by disingenuous means.

The day I come back to this game is the day they drop this business model as a whole and instead make it pay to play again but god knows that will never happen :). I could start a whole new chapter about grinding for items and equipment but it would still be more enjoyable if they just let us unlock the ARMAS weapons.
 

My general opinion however is: 

• Grinding has to die as a game mechanic.
• Microtransactions need to die as a business model.

I never understood why peaple are only capable of enjoying a game if they had ranks to climb or stuff to unlock. It really strikes me as an arbitrary element. Shouldn't the game itself be enjoyable? 

nearly every game since ever has been based around ranks or achievement; from spiffy new clothes in apb or access to a new harder level in the original mario games

its especially prevalent in MMOs and RPGs (of which apb has aspects of both)

 

im not even sure we play the same game tbh, there’s incredibly little grinding in apb since you can unlock just about everything (there are some poorly balanced exceptions that g1 implemented) simply by playing the core pvp gameplay, if that’s not a seamless mesh of  “enjoyable game” and “artificial achievement” then perhaps you just don’t like apb?

 

the pay2play model seems to be dying off, imo most people far prefer the choice of paying for small microtransaction content over being forced to repeatedly pay for all content (including things they may or may never interact with)

[ZoriaDunne 327]

There are better games with lower prices on real weapons and not Weapon Reskins.
GG.

[Letter 25]

4 hours ago, OfficerEdd said:

• Microtransactions need to die as a business model.

Microtransactions are fine - just check Warframe and its 30-120k online + "platinum" / highest sales level on Steam despite their record-high discounts (I'm getting up to 87.5% discounts compared to nominal prices). It's just some business owners and devs with $120k+ salaries fail to see the difference between a microtransaction and $10-20-50 not-so-micro transaction. So instead of 100 * $2 guns we get 10 * $20 guns and p2w accusations which work as a repellent against players and in the end turns game and its mechanics into a whale hunt.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Letter

[Kewlin 692]

10 hours ago, OfficerEdd said:

~snip~

 

I'm just curious. . . how exactly do you suggest appeasing the people who have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on this game while changing it to a pay to play game?

 

*EDIT* Ignoring the obvious fact that nobody would play a game most people see as a dumpster fire if they were expected to pay for it.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Kewlin

[ZoriaDunne 327]

12 hours ago, OfficerEdd said:

I'm honestly getting sick and tired of this type of business model as a whole. No matter how little the effect on gameplay. Microtransactions are fudamentally designed to pull money out of our pockets by disingenuous means.

The day I come back to this game is the day they drop this business model as a whole and instead make it pay to play again but god knows that will never happen :). I could start a whole new chapter about grinding for items and equipment but it would still be more enjoyable if they just let us unlock the ARMAS weapons.
 

My general opinion however is: 

• Grinding has to die as a game mechanic.
• Microtransactions need to die as a business model.

I never understood why peaple are only capable of enjoying a game if they had ranks to climb or stuff to unlock. It really strikes me as an arbitrary element. Shouldn't the game itself be enjoyable? 

Yeah we should get everything for free while they live from the air.

[Genobee 143]

On 12/29/2018 at 5:33 PM, Kewlin said:

 

I'm just curious. . . how exactly do you suggest appeasing the people who have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on this game while changing it to a pay to play game?

 

*EDIT* Ignoring the obvious fact that nobody would play a game most people see as a dumpster fire if they were expected to pay for it.

Gotta wonder about that myself.

 

..then again an optional one-time payment to get all kinds of permanent perks would be interesting. Perhaps access to permanent leases you otherwise can't view or somesuch. Akin to what a lot of other F2P games end up doing these days. 

[Lord Cashpoint 269]

12 hours ago, Genobee said:

Gotta wonder about that myself.

  

..then again an optional one-time payment to get all kinds of permanent perks would be interesting. Perhaps access to permanent leases you otherwise can't view or somesuch. Akin to what a lot of other F2P games end up doing these days.  

 

I've always thought APB should have had the option of a low buy in price which came with a number of perks (Perhaps permanent weapon purchasing or being able to lease Armas weapons for in game cash). Probably a bit late to implement that now however.

[Genobee 143]

6 hours ago, Lord Cashpoint said:

  

I've always thought APB should have had the option of a low buy in price which came with a number of perks (Perhaps permanent weapon purchasing or being able to lease Armas weapons for in game cash). Probably a bit late to implement that now however.

Probably. Then again it wouldn't hurt to give it a try with the engine upgrade.

[Thial 176]

Spending 60 euro can get me 3 perm account wide guns. Not bad.

[OfficerEdd 0]

On 12/30/2018 at 1:44 AM, TheKeanuReeves said:

Yeah we should get everything for free while they live from the air.

Nice strawman.

[OfficerEdd 0]

On 12/29/2018 at 11:33 PM, Kewlin said:

 

I'm just curious. . . how exactly do you suggest appeasing the people who have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on this game while changing it to a pay to play game?

 

*EDIT* Ignoring the obvious fact that nobody would play a game most people see as a dumpster fire if they were expected to pay for it.

I realize that I elaborated too little for peaple to understand it in the way I intend to. I just stated my general opinion. I realize that a pragmatic solution would have to be a bit more suphisticated. The best thing they could do right now would be to lower prices to where they are reasonable. When a single permanent weapons skin costs as much as a half decent game then I think everyone could agree that that is somewhat shady. 

As for the argument of peaple getting upset over past investments... I mean.... isn't it a bit ego-centrical to support a shady business model just because you made the mistake of buying in the first place? What difference does it make if all ARMAS weapons become free. All that really means is that you get every other item you want for free. The damage has already been done. It's just another way to delude yourself into thinking that you didn't waste your money in a way. Why can peaple not simply appreciate the fact that they supported the development of the game? All peaple really pay for is EXCLUSIVE access and I have to ask... is that really something worth paying for? 

A pay to play plan could be more nuanced then just flipping a switch from one day to another. It could involve giving the game out for free to those that already have paid in one way or another.

[OfficerEdd 0]

On 12/29/2018 at 4:31 PM, BXNNXD said:

nearly every game since ever has been based around ranks or achievement; from spiffy new clothes in apb or access to a new harder level in the original mario games

its especially prevalent in MMOs and RPGs (of which apb has aspects of both)

 

im not even sure we play the same game tbh, there’s incredibly little grinding in apb since you can unlock just about everything (there are some poorly balanced exceptions that g1 implemented) simply by playing the core pvp gameplay, if that’s not a seamless mesh of  “enjoyable game” and “artificial achievement” then perhaps you just don’t like apb?

 

the pay2play model seems to be dying off, imo most people far prefer the choice of paying for small microtransaction content over being forced to repeatedly pay for all content (including things they may or may never interact with)

I have played APB for already thousands of hours, have spent +550€ on it, so telling me that I don't understand the game doesn't really stick here. Yes you can get everything by playing the game, but without premium it takes ridiculously long to unlock every weapon with full capacity and modifications.

[Vincci 24]

4 minutes ago, OfficerEdd said:

I have played APB for already thousands of hours, have spent +550€ on it, so telling me that I don't understand the game doesn't really stick here. Yes you can get everything by playing the game, but without premium it takes ridiculously long to unlock every weapon with full capacity and modifications.

only 550? damn im crazy.

[Nanometic 265]

1 hour ago, OfficerEdd said:

I have played APB for already thousands of hours, have spent +550€ on it, so telling me that I don't understand the game doesn't really stick here..

[OfficerEdd 0]

4 hours ago, Nanometic said:

Name is OfficerEdd in the Citadel server it was I believe... Screenshots will fallow

 

Merged.

 

It's incredible what game companies get away with nowadays. It really astonishes me that my views are met with so much criticism instead of asking what of it really is nececary.

 

[Merged and snipped double quote -Spuzva]

 

Edited January 25, 2019 by OfficerEdd

[vsb 6171]

3 hours ago, OfficerEdd said:

I have played APB for already thousands of hours, have spent +550€ on it, so telling me that I don't understand the game doesn't really stick here. Yes you can get everything by playing the game, but without premium it takes ridiculously long to unlock every weapon with full capacity and modifications.

so your entire argument boils down to “i want everything for pennies on the dollar”

 

why even bother playing the game? i can’t think of a single similar (fps/tps, mmo, rpg) game that can be purchased for x dollars and every single piece of content is available immediately after logging in, all the achievements are unlocked and completed, etc

 

 

1 hour ago, OfficerEdd said:

It's incredible what game companies get away with nowadays. It really astonishes me that my views are met with so much criticism instead of asking what of it really is nececary.

it really astonishes me that you’re somehow surprised that an opinion going against the majority of the gaming industry and actual scientific studies is met with criticism 

[OfficerEdd 0]

7 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

so your entire argument boils down to “i want everything for pennies on the dollar”

 

why even bother playing the game? i can’t think of a single similar (fps/tps, mmo, rpg) game that can be purchased for x dollars and every single piece of content is available immediately after logging in, all the achievements are unlocked and completed, etc

 

 

it really astonishes me that you’re somehow surprised that an opinion going against the majority of the gaming industry and actual scientific studies is met with criticism 

3 minutes ago, OfficerEdd said:

Again, I'm not arguing about the value of the game. Presuming that I want everything "For a penny and a dolar" is a strawman. I wouldn't mind paying 60 bucks or even 50% more as a one time payment to access the game. Aside from that I already have contributed more than enough to justify beeing in this position. Exactly wich scientific studies are you talking about? A few sources woud be great. 

Again, I'm not arguing about the value of the game. Presuming that I want everything "For a penny and a dolar" is a strawman. I wouldn't mind paying 60 bucks or even 50% more as a one time payment to access the game. Aside from that I already have contributed more than enough to justify beeing in this position. Exactly wich scientific studies are you talking about? A few sources would be great. 

When a AAA game is in the price range of 80 to 120 dollars, then charging 20 dollars for A SINGLE GUN is more than unreasonable. That you conclude that I want everything for free on that basis just shows how accustomed everyone has become of practices that would be considered fraud in the 90's.

Edited January 25, 2019 by OfficerEdd

[vsb 6171]

1 hour ago, OfficerEdd said:

Again, I'm not arguing about the value of the game. Presuming that I want everything "For a penny and a dolar" is a strawman. I wouldn't mind paying 60 bucks or even 50% more as a one time payment to access the game. Aside from that I already have contributed more than enough to justify beeing in this position. Exactly wich scientific studies are you talking about? A few sources would be great. 

When a AAA game is in the price range of 80 to 120 dollars, then charging 20 dollars for A SINGLE GUN is more than unreasonable. That you conclude that I want everything for free on that basis just shows how accustomed everyone has become of practices that would be considered fraud in the 90's.

"for pennies on the dollar" is not a strawman, you've repeatedly (even in this very quote) said that you want access to all apb content for a fraction of what it currently costs

 

removing "grinding" and thus many achievements will only lessen the gameplay experience for most people, here's a link that breaks it down fairly well and provides several sources

http://www.psychologyofgames.com/2016/07/why-do-achievements-trophies-and-badges-work/

[OfficerEdd 0]

1 hour ago, BXNNXD said:

"for pennies on the dollar" is not a strawman, you've repeatedly (even in this very quote) said that you want access to all apb content for a fraction of what it currently costs

 

removing "grinding" and thus many achievements will only lessen the gameplay experience for most people, here's a link that breaks it down fairly well and provides several sources

http://www.psychologyofgames.com/2016/07/why-do-achievements-trophies-and-badges-work/

You are living ona different planet if you think the game is worth more than a full fledged AAA title.

52 minutes ago, OfficerEdd said:

You are living ona different planet if you think the game is worth more than a full fledged AAA title.

The very fact that it is founded in Psychology does not mean it is not anti-comsumer.

 

Merged.

 

I don't mind points or ranks as an asthetic, as in to measure a players experience. What I criticise is how it promotes inbalance by offereing the best equipment to those that already have a lot of experience in the game and thus a distinct advantage over anyone new to the game. It is not nececary to hide the games content behind an arbitrary wall to make a game enjoyable and psychological tricks are exactly what degraded the whole industry in jumping in on the train that are micro-transactions.

Making an actual good game with rewarding mechanics and a high skill ceiling can make a game just as if not more successfull in the long term. A game can be rewarding in itself without throwing shiny new skins and points on the players face. Its a disingenuous way of making a game and shows how little respect the industry has for its consumers.

[Kewlin 692]

43 minutes ago, OfficerEdd said:

You are living ona different planet if you think the game is worth more than a full fledged AAA title.

 

Didn't you say you spend 550 euros on this game? Doesn't that put you on the same planet?

 

*EDIT* I'm sorry BXNNXD, I know you'd probably rather be on a different planet than him, but sometimes the truth hurts.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Kewlin

[OfficerEdd 0]

1 minute ago, Kewlin said:

 

Didn't you say you spend 550 euros on this game? Doesn't that put you on the same planet?

 

*EDIT* I'm sorry BXNNXD, I know you'd probably rather be on a different planet than him, but sometimes the truth hurts.

Well, yea. Kind of emberassing, I didn't have the same views back then. I started playing when APB was in open Beta. I was also one of the peaple that defended the devs when peaple started to complain about how long it took them for the engine update and lack of communication. I had fun with the game together with friends and enjoyed the outstanding variety in costumization options in the game.

Thats the more reason to criticise the game because it didn't even come close to its true potential. All these faulty mechanics and the wrong business model ultimatively will mean the death of the game if they don't make drastic changes. Nothing is changing and I found a better nichee in the tactical shooter genre so it really isn't worth it anymore. 

[vsb 6171]

3 hours ago, OfficerEdd said:

ou are living ona different planet if you think the game is worth more than a full fledged AAA title.

i’m not sure where i said this, considering it’s obviously untrue as nearly every non-cosmetic item can be reached for free

 

in any case, yes i do consider this game worth more to me than a fully fledged AAA title but that’s obviously subjective

 

3 hours ago, OfficerEdd said:

The very fact that it is founded in Psychology does not mean it is not anti-comsumer.

it may or may not be anti-consumer, but that has very little bearing on how it adds to the gameplay experience, which achievements and “grinds” are fundamentally designed to do

 

3 hours ago, OfficerEdd said:

I don't mind points or ranks as an asthetic, as in to measure a players experience. What I criticise is how it promotes inbalance by offereing the best equipment to those that already have a lot of experience in the game and thus a distinct advantage over anyone new to the game. It is not nececary to hide the games content behind an arbitrary wall to make a game enjoyable and psychological tricks are exactly what degraded the whole industry in jumping in on the train that are micro-transactions.

how would you reward players if not with progressively better (to a point) items that they can actually use, it’s the easiest and (imo) best way to have physical proof that their efforts are a positive action

 

“endgame” players vs new players shouldn’t factor into any of this as its not something that should happen unless it’s voluntary and steps are being taken to reduce/eliminate it

 

i would argue that the arbitrary wall is more entertaining than the content behind it in most cases, regardless of knowing it’s a psychological trick or not 

 

3 hours ago, OfficerEdd said:

Making an actual good game with rewarding mechanics and a high skill ceiling can make a game just as if not more successfull in the long term. A game can be rewarding in itself without throwing shiny new skins and points on the players face. Its a disingenuous way of making a game and shows how little respect the industry has for its consumers.

apb was a good game with rewarding mechanics and a high skill ceiling, 2011-2012 was the peak imo, and the game barely surpassed 7k concurrent players

 

making the perfect game and players deciding to flock to it is a great idea in a vacuum perhaps

 

in reality the gaming industry (just like literally every other industry) relies on money and that money comes from consumers - perhaps you feel differently but i would much rather get into a game for free and find out i have to pay for small conveniences over handing over $60/$80/$100 up front and finding out the game is crap

[OfficerEdd 0]

8 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

i’m not sure where i said this, considering it’s obviously untrue as nearly every non-cosmetic item can be reached for free

 

in any case, yes i do consider this game worth more to me than a fully fledged AAA title but that’s obviously subjective

 

it may or may not be anti-consumer, but that has very little bearing on how it adds to the gameplay experience, which achievements and “grinds” are fundamentally designed to do

 

how would you reward players if not with progressively better (to a point) items that they can actually use, it’s the easiest and (imo) best way to have physical proof that their efforts are a positive action

 

“endgame” players vs new players shouldn’t factor into any of this as its not something that should happen unless it’s voluntary and steps are being taken to reduce/eliminate it

 

i would argue that the arbitrary wall is more entertaining than the content behind it in most cases, regardless of knowing it’s a psychological trick or not 

 

apb was a good game with rewarding mechanics and a high skill ceiling, 2011-2012 was the peak imo, and the game barely surpassed 7k concurrent players

 

making the perfect game and players deciding to flock to it is a great idea in a vacuum perhaps

 

in reality the gaming industry (just like literally every other industry) relies on money and that money comes from consumers - perhaps you feel differently but i would much rather get into a game for free and find out i have to pay for small conveniences over handing over $60/$80/$100 up front and finding out the game is crap

Wow, really. I don't think I've read a more shallow statement than this. I'm starting to get the feeling that you're trolling. If this is the taste in games that peaple develop nowadays then it is no surprise that companies get away with it. The quality of games is at an absolute low despite maijor technological improvements and then this...