CookiePuss 5378 Posted October 21, 2018 Just now, Tenginima said: Yes, and the less luck the better. even if you full auto 15m, it will be more RNG with people's current suggestion rather then if we just increase recoil. Are... are you trolling right now? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tenginima 74 Posted October 21, 2018 Just now, CookiePuss said: Are... are you trolling right now? Why would I be? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CookiePuss 5378 Posted October 21, 2018 Just now, Tenginima said: Why would I be? Fine... if you REALLY wanna use your AR at 15m.... Just dont put IR on it. gg ez Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tenginima 74 Posted October 21, 2018 Just now, CookiePuss said: Fine... if you REALLY wanna use your AR at 15m.... Just dont put IR on it. gg ez I never said I wanted to, nor that I do. I simply stated that RNG, should always try to be minimized, to where it is no longer a practical impact. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269 Posted October 21, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Tenginima said: Yes, and the less luck the better. even if you full auto 15m, it will be more RNG with people's current suggestion rather then if we just increase recoil. Yes, let's increase the one thing that is actually RNG, and then complain about it months down the road Edited October 21, 2018 by Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CookiePuss 5378 Posted October 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Tenginima said: I never said I wanted to, nor that I do. I simply stated that RNG, should always try to be minimized, to where it is no longer a practical impact. Im sorry, are you arguing for an APB without RNG ? Balance is important. RNG is an important tool used in balancing weapons. Honestly I cant believe Im having this conversation right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269 Posted October 21, 2018 Just now, CookiePuss said: Im sorry, are you arguing for an APB without RNG ? Balance is important. RNG is an important tool used in balancing weapons. Honestly I cant believe Im having this conversation right now. Dw. Let the ntec warriors drive their favourite gun into the ground by their own hands Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vsb 6171 Posted October 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tenginima said: I never said I wanted to, nor that I do. I simply stated that RNG, should always try to be minimized, to where it is no longer a practical impact. every shooter ever has rng when shooting guns full auto, except counter strike with its laughable bullet pattern system - thats the balancing mechanic for a perfect fire rate improved rifling increasing bloom per shot would effectively limit your cqc viability (rng certainly makes that 15m full auto riskier) without outright taking it away like the 18% rof decrease did 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tenginima 74 Posted October 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, CookiePuss said: Im sorry, are you arguing for an APB without RNG ? Balance is important. RNG is an important tool used in balancing weapons. Honestly I cant believe Im having this conversation right now. I am arguing for a APB without RNG, atleast as close to without it. Not CS:GO or Starcraft 2 competitive, but atleast a lot of silly stuff out. Bloom is fine, as it is. it is when you mess with it things become and issue. As in when G1 First changed the ntec to begin with, in their attempt to make it more "burst viable and increase the skill gap" Yet, all they did was sadly making it more easy to use while spraying and relying on luck, while punishing tap firing. RNG is not a good tool for balancing weapons. Picture yourself this, if you had a random damage number on the OSMAW, and you had 2 people fire at each-other with said OSMAW, but it has a damage range of 900 - 1000. How is that fair balancing? The same principle can be drawn for Bloom. If you increase bloom, you either A) make it useless to fully auto with overall. Or B) make it good enough to spray, but in a situation where you fight another opponent with the same setup and skill, you must have a bit of luck, unless you play around him. But we are assuming that both have equal fighting grounds. Listen, I am not saying remove bloom. I am saying that increasing it is not a good downgrade as you simply make it more based on RNG at closer ranges. Yes you can use a secondary, however again, it does not excuse poor game design for main weapons. 6 minutes ago, BXNNXD said: every shooter ever has rng when shooting guns full auto, except counter strike with its laughable bullet pattern system - thats the balancing mechanic for a perfect fire rate improved rifling increasing bloom per shot would effectively limit your cqc viability (rng certainly makes that 15m full auto riskier) without outright taking it away like the 18% rof decrease did However the 18% firerate did not remove it's abillity to fight cqc, as you could spray with a lot of consistency, do too the fact that the gun bloomed slower. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269 Posted October 22, 2018 9 minutes ago, Tenginima said: However the 18% firerate did not remove it's abillity to fight cqc Well it obviously did something considering the forums were whining about it, and even more, are now happy it's going away Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caesruul 16 Posted October 22, 2018 Some suggestions. Increase weapon spread when moving. Decrease movement speed when using marksman mode. Tweaking with weapon recovery delay, i.e. after each shot it takes x% longer to go back to normal spread. Crouch/Stand modifiers being tweaked. Decreasing Hard Damage. Tweaking minimum damage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tenginima 74 Posted October 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said: Well it obviously did something considering the forums were whining about it, and even more, are now happy it's going away People complaining is not adequate proof, that something is broken. the IR3 nerf was a good nerf, and it made the mod more specialized, a sidegrade rather then a upgrade. It's the same story with the NTEC discussion. Read my post about that and you'll see that no-one made a good argument to why the NTEC was op, once they considered the alternatives I brought up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269 Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Tenginima said: People complaining is not adequate proof, that something is broken. the IR3 nerf was a good nerf, and it made the mod more specialized, a sidegrade rather then a upgrade. It's the same story with the NTEC discussion. Read my post about that and you'll see that no-one made a good argument to why the NTEC was op, once they considered the alternatives I brought up. I will read them, but before I do, you're telling me the opinion of like 70% of the whole playerbase means nothing in the face of a handful of indivual's opinion? Edited October 22, 2018 by Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tenginima 74 Posted October 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said: I will read them, but before I do, you're telling me the opinion of like 70% of the whole playerbase means nothing in the face of a handful of indivual's opinion? Not that they don't mean anything no. Since atm APB's pop is so small that we need to find a middle ground. But in CS.GO, the Pro's are the ones that VAlve listen too, despite them being a minority. And sadly, as soon as 1 thing disapear another thing comes into complaint and so on and so on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CookiePuss 5378 Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Tenginima said: random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage Edited October 22, 2018 by CookiePuss Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269 Posted October 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tenginima said: Not that they don't mean anything no. Since atm APB's pop is so small that we need to find a middle ground. But in CS.GO, the Pro's are the ones that VAlve listen too, despite them being a minority. And sadly, as soon as 1 thing disapear another thing comes into complaint and so on and so on. I don't have anything against the way Valve balances CS:GO, mainly cause I don't play it :^), but comparing CS:GO to apb and balancing in their style isn't a good idea for a few reasons: 1) CS:GO is a game designed around being competitive whereas apb, at the moment anyway, is a casual shooter 2) a fair share of our "top players" aren't really open to the idea of playing with the wide rooster of guns available to pick from, so advice from them tends to lean in favour of the meta, while in CS:GO, their top players don't mind stepping out of their comfort zone/they have enough competitive players playing with all the guns to balance them relatively ok 3) I just wanted to say 3 4) the elephant in the room, they're different games. They play out differently Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tenginima 74 Posted October 22, 2018 10 minutes ago, CookiePuss said: random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage random damage I am not sure what you are trying to do or tell me about this. Do you even know what RNG is? 3 minutes ago, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said: I don't have anything against the way Valve balances CS:GO, mainly cause I don't play it :^), but comparing CS:GO to apb and balancing in their style isn't a good idea for a few reasons: 1) CS:GO is a game designed around being competitive whereas apb, at the moment anyway, is a casual shooter 2) a fair share of our "top players" aren't really open to the idea of playing with the wide rooster of guns available to pick from, so advice from them tends to lean in favour of the meta, while in CS:GO, their top players don't mind stepping out of their comfort zone/they have enough competitive players playing with all the guns to balance them relatively ok 3) I just wanted to say 3 4) the elephant in the room, they're different games. They play out differently Ofc they are different games, I just used it as an example, as I am one of these top players currently. I've used every gun in this game extensively for many hours on end. Partly due to me finishing all my weapon roles at 16, and doing so would be super boring with just Meta guns. This is why I know that, The Ursus is a better ntec, that the STAR is better then the NTEC up to 25/30m, that the Rapid is the hidden gem of machine guns etc. Anyhow I need to go to sleep, i'll return later tomorow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
killerskull 111 Posted October 22, 2018 To counter the + of this mod, take out - of other mods to balance everything out Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CookiePuss 5378 Posted October 22, 2018 1 minute ago, killerskull said: To counter the + of this mod, take out - of other mods to balance everything out Remove all guns. There, perfect balance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kewlin 692 Posted October 22, 2018 36 minutes ago, Tenginima said: People complaining is not adequate proof, that something is broken. the IR3 nerf was a good nerf, and it made the mod more specialized, a sidegrade rather then a upgrade. Yeah, reduced rate of fire was great, that's why the people who proposed it in the first place decided it was a bad idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269 Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) @Tenginima I wanna run 2/3 questions by you real quick. In layman terms, could you describe what you think bloom (bloom per shot/per shot modifier) and recoil do on a gun in apb I'll ask my third question after you answer these two (or I might not depending your answer for recoil) Edited October 22, 2018 by Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vsb 6171 Posted October 22, 2018 44 minutes ago, Tenginima said: increasing it is not a good downgrade as you simply make it more based on RNG at closer ranges. is that not the whole point? you're gaining 15% range so you (might) lose some cqc ability its the same principle hunting sight (and reflex sight, in the reverse) works on, why is it suddenly not ok? 49 minutes ago, Tenginima said: However the 18% firerate did not remove it's abillity to fight cqc, as you could spray with a lot of consistency, do too the fact that the gun bloomed slower. i assume we're talking specifically about the ntec? in which case i would think the old downside of ir3 (increased maximum bloom) would be even less to your taste than increased bloom per shot if not ntec specific i'd argue that raw ttk is more important than consistency in cqc, especially given that most guns that use ir3 start out far more accurate in marksmanship than dedicated cqc guns 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AxeTurboAgresor 268 Posted October 22, 2018 @HighSociety agree. This was a brain fart of mine Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HighSociety 148 Posted October 22, 2018 4 hours ago, CookiePuss said: Remove all guns. There, perfect balance. Remove all guns, give us wooden sticks! Remove all nades, we got bricks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kewlin 692 Posted October 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, HighSociety said: Remove all guns, give us wooden sticks! Remove all nades, we got bricks! @MurkTheMerc Melee confirmed? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
