Why were the OCA and NTEC Test-A changes not pushed to live?

[Flaws 1033]

3 minutes ago, Nitronik said:

Why would I ever let an OCA sneak up on me if I have people watching my flanks?

Counter Edit : why would the NTEC ever have the upper hand over a dedicated CQC weapon? Wasn't it you saying a couple posts ago that jumping makes you an easily tracked target? This is the kinda situation where jumpshots are a bad idea

1. What's the upside of using N-TEC over Obeya then if the changes are applied to live?
2. Jumping in mid-air is still more flexible than crouching and not moving while spraying the enemy. It's not the best, but it's an N-TEC so it isn't supposed to be the best at CQC either way. It just goes to show how the N-TEC really doesn't need a nerf. It does many things well but in CQC and long range, it gets caught out easily.

[Nitronik 348]

1 : I already addressed that. If you're using the obeya to cover a small room / hallway that's not ideal, the 0.12 TTK advantage (formerly 0.14) is a pretty good deal when someone is trying to run at you. Aren't good players supposed to switch as the situation demands?

[Flaws 1033]

1 minute ago, Nitronik said:

1 : I already addressed that. If you're using the obeya to cover a small room / hallway that's not ideal, the 0.12 TTK advantage (formerly 0.14) is a pretty good deal when someone is trying to run at you. Aren't good players supposed to switch as the situation demands?

In what situation is it best to cover a small room/hallway with an N-TEC if you can use a CQC weapon or an OSCAR for example? Assault Rifles are not meant for tight spaces, which is why the N-TEC lacks where CQC weapons (and other weapons of it's mid-range class) exceed.

[Nitronik 348]

Just now, Flaws said:

3 minutes ago, Nitronik said:

1 : I already addressed that. If you're using the obeya to cover a small room / hallway that's not ideal, the 0.12 TTK advantage (formerly 0.14) is a pretty good deal when someone is trying to run at you. Aren't good players supposed to switch as the situation demands?

In what situation is it best to cover a small room/hallway with an N-TEC if you can use a CQC weapon or an OSCAR for example? Assault Rifles are not meant for tight spaces, which is why the N-TEC lacks where CQC weapons (and other weapons of it's mid-range class) exceed.

and how is jumping accuracy supposed to aid with that?

[Flaws 1033]

9 minutes ago, Nitronik said:

1 : I already addressed that. If you're using the obeya to cover a small room / hallway that's not ideal, the 0.12 TTK advantage (formerly 0.14) is a pretty good deal when someone is trying to run at you. Aren't good players supposed to switch as the situation demands?

Forums are super derpy right now. I have no idea how I double-posted. I meant to reply to

"and how is jumping accuracy supposed to aid with that?"

It gives you a chance to defend yourself to an extent in CQC. Edited October 2, 2018 by Flaws

[Nitronik 348]

6 minutes ago, Flaws said:

Forums are super derpy right now. I have no idea how I double-posted. I meant to reply to

"and how is jumping accuracy supposed to aid with that?"

It gives you a chance to defend yourself to an extent in CQC.

Flaws. You're making the jump modifier to be the sole savior of the NTEC. We both know that's not the case.

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

Can I run a quick experiment by you people against the ntec changes. Lets say you're engaging in fights that revolve around 60m and more mainly in all your matches. If you couldn't choose the ntec (n-tec 5 and ursus) or the CR762, what would you use?

[Flaws 1033]

1 minute ago, Nitronik said:

7 minutes ago, Flaws said:

Forums are super derpy right now. I have no idea how I double-posted. I meant to reply to

"and how is jumping accuracy supposed to aid with that?"

It gives you a chance to defend yourself to an extent in CQC.

Flaws. You're making the jump modifier to be the sole savior of the NTEC. We both know that's not the case.

Prior to the IR nerf it wasn't. But now I think it's what makes it appealing in terms of playstyle.

Just now, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

Can I run a quick experiment by you people against the ntec changes. Lets say you're engaging in fights that revolve around 60m and more mainly in all your matches. If you couldn't choose the ntec (n-tec 5 and ursus) or the CR762, what would you use?

OBIR, maybe Scout. You basically stripped us of 3 of the best choices there so it's no surprise that I'd go for one of those last two options.

[vsb 6170]

2 minutes ago, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

Can I run a quick experiment by you people against the ntec changes. Lets say you're engaging in fights that revolve around 60m and more mainly in all your matches. If you couldn't choose the ntec (n-tec 5 and ursus) or the CR762, what would you use?

obir, especially with the cj3 change on otw

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

11 minutes ago, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

Can I run a quick experiment by you people against the ntec changes. Lets say you're engaging in fights that revolve around 60m and more mainly in all your matches. If you couldn't choose the ntec (n-tec 5 and ursus) or the CR762, what would you use?

Okay now let me cut it down to 45m and above

[vsb 6170]

4 minutes ago, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

Okay now let me cut it down to 45m and above

not sure what this is about tbh but issrb/obir i guess

[Excalibur! 207]

7 hours ago, Nitronik said:

Those two Test-A changes were honestly pretty spot on. How come we're still waiting on them?


For those not in the loop :

NTEC : from 0.7 (live) to 0.72 TTK, 30 rounds in the magazine, Jump Accuracy nerfed

OCA : from 0.64 to 0.68 TTK

Because they want to kill the population slowly.

[Fortune Runner 796]

58 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Bruh we are discussing specifics here.
The devil is in the details and all that.
 

apples and apple cake

[Helix Reloaded 102]

hell

[Nitronik 348]

8 hours ago, Helix Reloaded said:

hell

this is a christian forum thread please refrain from swearing

[GhosT 1301]

It's beyond me how such an long time and experienced player can defend the N-TEC so hard. You even play it all day long without ever switching to something else.

Can you explain me where exactly the N-TEC is a "high skill cap" weapon?
All you need to learn is how to tap fire, and that's learned in a mission or two, or by firing at a wall for a few minutes.
Then it's literally just a spam LMB to win at all ranges gun, while still being better than some of the SMGs in this game for close range.

Hell just drive through a district, the only thing you ever hear is tap fired ntecs in every direction.
The thing is so easy it's not even fun to play with or against it.

[Kempington 295]

Ok now I'm confused. Whats the relation to the IR change and ntec jump shooting? How does a rate of fire need when using improved rifling now suddenly make ntec jump shooting appealing? 

Also, I feel a few are worried about the ntec changes as a good ntec user will never have to use any other weapon in the game. I wouldn't really say that makes the ntec unbalanced, just far too versatile. It's needs a specific role. Short-midrange AR seems about right, with limited long range (65m+) capability.

I mean yes, arguably the ntec is fine at the moment. Any competent player can walk over n-tecs at any range, as long as they play to the strengths of their weapon. It's the fact that the ntec can be used at any range up to 65m pretty comfortably is the issue and one of the reasons it's used so frequently.

[Nitronik 348]

4 minutes ago, Kempington said:

I mean yes, arguably the ntec is fine at the moment. Any competent player can walk over n-tecs at any range, as long as they play to the strengths of their weapon. It's the fact that the ntec can be used at any range up to 65m pretty comfortably is the issue and one of the reasons it's used so frequently.

I reckon that's where the TTK nerf comes in - you slow down minTTK for full auto, the change compounds with the tap firing delay and brings it a bit more in line with the TTK of guns intended for that range.

This is IMO much better than Test-B , where no matter your skill level you'd just end up missing shots since the overall accuracy was much worse


  Edited October 3, 2018 by Nitronik

[Similarities 226]

2 hours ago, Kempington said:

Short-midrange AR seems about right

 

No, it really doesn't, because that's the STAR's role. Don't put the N-TEC in the STAR role. Make the N-TEC less accurate in CQC so that it can be the mid-long range AR that consistently loses to other weapons in CQC (and the area between CQC and mid-range, such as the Carbine range)

3 hours ago, GhosT said:

Then it's literally just a spam LMB to win at all ranges gun, while still being better than some of the SMGs in this game for close range.

 

Examples being...? Norseman guns don't count.
N-TEC loses to PMG, N-TEC loses to OCA, N-TEC loses to Manic, N-TEC loses to Curse, etc, etc, etc...

[GhosT 1301]

11 minutes ago, Similarities said:

Examples being...? Norseman guns don't count.
N-TEC loses to PMG, N-TEC loses to OCA, N-TEC loses to Manic, N-TEC loses to Curse, etc, etc, etc...

Depends on the situation, the N-TEC is very viable to hold its ground in close quarters against these weapons, while still being effective up to 65m or even more.

[Flaws 1033]

3 hours ago, Kempington said:

Ok now I'm confused. Whats the relation to the IR change and ntec jump shooting? How does a rate of fire need when using improved rifling now suddenly make ntec jump shooting appealing? 

I was personally referring to the fact that the decreased fire rate with IR makes the N-TEC less effective in CQC spraying, therefore if you use it, you'd rather reach for your secondary in CQC. If they take away the current jump shooting accuracy (when not using IR), IMO, it would make the weapon less versatile and less appealing. (and yes, I am aware that many players who don't use the N-TEC want just that to happen.)

43 minutes ago, GhosT said:

Depends on the situation, the N-TEC is very viable to hold its ground in close quarters against these weapons, while still being effective up to 65m or even more.

Good SMG players don't (USUALLY) lose to N-TECs in CQC, at least not in a fair 1v1 situation. Stock OCA alone is (USUALLY) more than enough to take down a jump shooting N-TEC. You can be mowed down by an N-TEC crouch peeker on a corner, but you could get killed like that by other weapons as well.

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

Ima keep it real with u chief: the ntec, which falls under the ASSAULT RIFLE class, isn't really meant to be used in cqc. There's a reason why the pointman guns and secondaries exist

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

1 minute ago, CookiePuss said:

10 minutes ago, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

Ima keep it real with u chief: the ntec, which falls under the ASSAULT RIFLE class, isn't really meant to be used in cqc. There's a reason why the pointman guns and secondaries exist

... gottem

Doubt it'll sink in tho

[Kempington 295]

2 hours ago, Similarities said:

No, it really doesn't, because that's the STAR's role. Don't put the N-TEC in the STAR role. Make the N-TEC less accurate in CQC so that it can be the mid-long range AR that consistently loses to other weapons in CQC (and the area between CQC and mid-range, such as the Carbine range) Examples being...? Norseman guns don't count.
N-TEC loses to PMG, N-TEC loses to OCA, N-TEC loses to Manic, N-TEC loses to Curse, etc, etc, etc...

Even though the STAR is completely outclassed by the ntec in its intended range where it's most effective...

Maybe give the ntec more innacuracy when hipfired on the move? The jump shooting accuracy nerf is well founded to be honest. I'd feel ntec needs to be most effective in between the star and the ntec 7, which would put it at around 35-45m. 

[foolish ninja 59]

Ntec just needs a slight nerf to accuracy recovery and hipfire accuracy in general (including standing still and crouching)
It wont destroy the gun, it would just make it inferior to CQB weapons like SMGs and shotguns at close range.