Why were the OCA and NTEC Test-A changes not pushed to live?

[Haganu 104]

The NTEC is far to versatile, but to me it goes a bit further than stats and performance. The NTEC's current position feels just right on every ground, while with other guns it feels like it's lacking that just right feeling.

That still is no justification for the lack of balance the NTEC it has. But taking away that just right feeling from the gun would also be bad I think. It's going to be quite a tough challenge to nerf the gun and keep everyone happy.

I'd say both the NTEC and the STAR need to move closer towards each other without becoming copies or reskins of each other. If the STAR can give a similar feeling where everything about the gun just works, while chipping of a small bit from NTEC's performance, we might get somewhere. 

Maybe it's better to leave the current balance as-is until more important fixes come though, though I would be intrigued to hear why the changes to NTEC and OCA didn't go live.
 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Haganu

[EMilika 41]

11 minutes ago, Haganu said:

The NTEC is far to versatile, but to me it goes a bit further than stats and performance. The NTEC's current position feels just right on every ground, while with other guns it feels like it's lacking that just right feeling.

That still is no justification for the lack of balance the NTEC it has. But taking away that just right feeling from the gun would also be bad I think. It's going to be quite a tough challenge to nerf the gun and keep everyone happy.

I'd say both the NTEC and the STAR need to move closer towards each other without becoming copies or reskins of each other. If the STAR can give a similar feeling where everything about the gun just works, while chipping of a small bit from NTEC's performance, we might get somewhere. 

Maybe it's better to leave the current balance as-is until more important fixes come though, though I would be intrigued to hear why the changes to NTEC and OCA didn't go live.
 

Well i constantly kill people when behind obstackle vs Nhvr 65 metres
Its kinda easy to press Ctrl and do 1,3 bullet burst when other person is not even realising that you've made move to get out cover Edited October 5, 2018 by EMilika
well that kindoff sucks for large range weapon ussers i guess.

[CookiePuss 5378]

6 minutes ago, EMilika said:

Well i constantly kill people when behind obstackle vs Nhvr 65 metres.

Bronze district doesnt count. 
Cuz its either that, or you are flat out lying. 

[EMilika 41]

11 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Bronze district doesnt count. 
Cuz its either that, or you are flat out lying. 

It's probably metta aka > le professional with scout shoots me
hits twice i don't die xD ?!?!
What magic is that.

[CookiePuss 5378]

32 minutes ago, EMilika said:

It's probably metta aka > le professional with scout shoots me
hits twice i don't die xD ?!?!
What magic is that.

[Flaws 1033]

9 hours ago, GhosT said:

Yeah, no. Why are you picking at me?
I mean, look at your streams, you're sometimes a 1 mag 1 kill type of N-TEC player.

At least I don't need to pull false "facts" out of my a** to support a claim on the forums. If you can't kill an N-TEC in CQC with OCA, you are bad. Period. There's no excuse for that. Call me whatever you want, but most CQC weapons are more than good enough to beat the N-TEC, your previous statement doesn't make sense and is not a good enough reason to nerf the N-TEC.

You don't pull out a CQC weapon in a long/mid range fight. You don't engage in a long/mid range fight if you already have it pulled out. You rush a CQC area with a CQC weapon. In long range you can pull out an Obeya/OBIR/HVR/Scout. All of those out-perform the N-TEC on range. The N-TEC is not strong enough to beat any of those (assuming that they are used in the correct range).

When weapon discussions are held, one thing needs to always be noted: We are not talking about our own experiences with weapons as much as we need to address the maximum potential of every weapon that is being discussed. Just because X number of people who main OCA and can't kill a skilled N-TEC user in CQC, doesn't mean that good players can't. That's what I've been trying to say. Not everything on the forums needs to be taken into consideration when weapon changes are being made. Edited October 6, 2018 by Flaws

[Excalibur! 207]

On 10/3/2018 at 9:21 PM, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

Enlighten me. Say I'm using a hvr (and we all know how it now performs in cqc with its last nerf). You're saying whatever secondary I pick, I'm fucked for cqc? Guess I'll never play the hvr again, as that gets rid of any chance in cqc I have. Remember guys, if you use a weapon catered specifically to long range, just expect to die in cqc. Don't bother retaliating

Thats why you dont apply trash changes to weapons.

[GhosT 1301]

13 hours ago, Flaws said:

At least I don't need to pull false "facts" out of my a** to support a claim on the forums. If you can't kill an N-TEC in CQC with OCA, you are bad. Period. There's no excuse for that. Call me whatever you want, but most CQC weapons are more than good enough to beat the N-TEC, your previous statement doesn't make sense and is not a good enough reason to nerf the N-TEC.

You don't pull out a CQC weapon in a long/mid range fight. You don't engage in a long/mid range fight if you already have it pulled out. You rush a CQC area with a CQC weapon. In long range you can pull out an Obeya/OBIR/HVR/Scout. All of those out-perform the N-TEC on range. The N-TEC is not strong enough to beat any of those (assuming that they are used in the correct range).

When weapon discussions are held, one thing needs to always be noted: We are not talking about our own experiences with weapons as much as we need to address the maximum potential of every weapon that is being discussed. Just because X number of people who main OCA and can't kill a skilled N-TEC user in CQC, doesn't mean that good players can't. That's what I've been trying to say. Not everything on the forums needs to be taken into consideration when weapon changes are being made.

Oh man, here comes the "you're bad" argument. Funny seeing that coming from you, considering your past (or even present? I don't know.)

Yeah, some weapons are better than the N-TEC at their intended range, and they are poop outside of it, but it doesn't change the fact that the N-TEC can effectively fight pretty much anything and outgun them at a given situation. The N-TEC is also at an advantage if you get the jump on your oh-so-good OCA user, or the N-TEC has cover - and the OCA doesn't.

I mean, there's a reason why almost everyone plays it. It's obvious that it's overpowered and you can defend your crutch all day long, it won't change my opinion about it.
  Edited October 6, 2018 by GhosT
a typo here and there

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

7 hours ago, Excalibur! said:

On 10/4/2018 at 1:21 AM, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

Enlighten me. Say I'm using a hvr (and we all know how it now performs in cqc with its last nerf). You're saying whatever secondary I pick, I'm fucked for cqc? Guess I'll never play the hvr again, as that gets rid of any chance in cqc I have. Remember guys, if you use a weapon catered specifically to long range, just expect to die in cqc. Don't bother retaliating

Thats why you dont apply trash changes to weapons.

Still waiting for my enlightenment, because as far as I can see, you just dodged my question

You're basically saying don't balance the guns to stay in line of their intended roles, because according to you, secondaries are just a vanity item, and that the ntec should do well at any and all ranges

[Nitronik 348]

Oh no, fights are happening!!!

I hope we get to see the OCA nerf brought to live before this thread gets locked by some overly eager moderator...

[Flaws 1033]

2 hours ago, GhosT said:

Oh man, here comes the "you're bad" argument. Funny seeing that coming from you, considering your past (or even present? I don't know.)

Yeah, some weapons are better than the N-TEC at their intended range, and they are poop outside of it, but it doesn't change the fact that the N-TEC can effectively fight pretty much anything and outgun them at a given situation. The N-TEC is also at an advantage if you get the jump on your oh-so-good OCA user, or the N-TEC has cover - and the OCA doesn't.

I mean, there's a reason why almost everyone plays it. It's obvious that it's overpowered and you can defend your crutch all day long, it won't change my opinion about it.
 

The "you're bad" argument is correct for the majority of the forum warriors. (No offense to anyone, but it seems that I need to make that clear.)

You can play N-TEC all day long but when you have to attack a CQC area and the opp has 1-2+ CQC weapons, you go CQC as well. You don't stay N-TEC because you'll die most of the time. Every good player knows that. Same for long range. Stop trying to apply your personal experience of getting smashed by good N-TECs in CQC to what the reality of the situation is.

But yeah, good job on not being able to hold your horse and just having to bring up irrelevant crap to a discussion that has nothing to do with that. Very mature. Edited October 6, 2018 by Flaws

[CookiePuss 5378]

Hasnt LO already decided the change the ntec?
What even is this conversation?

[GhosT 1301]

1 hour ago, Flaws said:

But yeah, good job on not being able to hold your horse and just having to bring up irrelevant crap to a discussion that has nothing to do with that. Very mature.

Yeah, I mean, you were the first to bring up irrelevant crap.

What makes you assume that I get smashed all day long in CQC by N-TECS? Just because I dare to speak the truth about your favourite crutch?
I'm not trying to balance guns to my personal skill level because "waaaah I got killed by one waaaaaaah", but more so because it actually is overpowered and the game became absolutely stale.

I mean... , lol.
 

1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

Hasnt LO already decided the change the ntec?
What even is this conversation?

Yeah, they did. Not sure why Flaws even tries. It's obvious. Edited October 6, 2018 by GhosT

[Genobee 143]

1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

Hasnt LO already decided the change the ntec?
What even is this conversation?

My guess is boredom. Not a whole not has changed in a while around here. The engine upgrade and other big changes are still probably a few months out. So might as well discuss the small tweaks to death. Edited October 6, 2018 by Genobee

[CookiePuss 5378]

Just now, Genobee said:

My guess is boredom. Not a whole not has changed in a while around here. The engine upgrade and other big changes are still probably a few months out. So might as well discuss the small tweaks to death.

Ahh... fair enough.

[Revoluzzer 274]

On 10/4/2018 at 3:45 AM, Kempington said:

It's unfair to say the n-tec is unbalanced primarily because of its versatility. The STAR has just the same amount of versatility as the n-tec in terms of range capability and play, even more-so with regards to hipfiring in CQC, but the STAR isn't OP because of its versatility. I've been using it more recently and some mod loadouts do push the STAR's capability pretty far. It's remarkable.

The STAR has always been really versatile as a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none, which made it a well rounded, balanced weapon.
The N-Tec has historically been a really versatile jack-of-all-trades and a master of mid-range. And after many mediocre balancing-attempts, it has remained in a very powerful position, albeit at a higher skill-floor.

[AsgerLund 1271]

N-SSW is fine, though.

[GhosT 1301]

3 minutes ago, AsgerLund said:

N-SSW is fine, though.

Yeah, it has actual drawbacks, like recoil, slow MM movement and it slows down your running/sprinting speed.

[Nitronik 348]

Don't tell LO about HB2

[Excalibur! 207]

5 hours ago, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

Still waiting for my enlightenment, because as far as I can see, you just dodged my question

You're basically saying don't balance the guns to stay in line of their intended roles, because according to you, secondaries are just a vanity item, and that the ntec should do well at any and all ranges

Secondaries are named like that because they are secondary. They should only be used as "suport" or finish off.
Having two primaries is r-e-t-a-r-d-e-d, get it now? I am done explaining things like if you are five.

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

46 minutes ago, Excalibur! said:

Secondaries are named like that because they are secondary. They should only be used as "suport" or finish off.
Having two primaries is r-e-t-a-r-d-e-d, get it now? I am done explaining things like if you are five.

Wow, it's like what I asked about the hvr went over your head. No point continuing a conversation with an individual who avoids answering the question presented. You would make a great politician. Have a nice day

[CookiePuss 5378]

1 hour ago, AsgerLund said:

N-SSW is fine, though.

 

1 hour ago, Nitronik said:

Don't tell LO about HB2

I swear to god if you two get another gun ruined.... REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

[Excalibur! 207]

48 minutes ago, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

1 hour ago, Excalibur! said:

Secondaries are named like that because they are secondary. They should only be used as "suport" or finish off.
Having two primaries is r-e-t-a-r-d-e-d, get it now? I am done explaining things like if you are five.

Wow, it's like what I asked about the hvr went over your head. No point continuing a conversation with an individual who avoids answering the question presented. You would make a great politician. Have a nice day

I didnt avoid anything: you dont apply breaking/trash weapons changes, secondaries are secondary weapon and should not function like a primary weapon or you would have two primary weapons.

You dont use nhvr after the nerf. Even using a scout is more profitable.
Why do you think i am so mad with these smart changes made by people who dont give a fuck about the game.

[vsb 6171]

2 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

I swear to god if you two get another gun ruined.... REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

dont worry orbit wont change the nssw

they'll just completely rework heavy barrel into something no one asked for :^)

[CookiePuss 5378]

51 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

dont worry orbit wont change the nssw

they'll just completely rework heavy barrel into something no one asked for :^)

hah... gottem