Nerf N-HVR?

[RespectThis 121]

17 minutes ago, Sniperturtle said:

Only thing i'd think of for the HVR is to gradually increase its damage with range, making it useless at ranges below 50m.

Then what would happen to the DMR? Because that's what you're describing right now.

Edited May 29, 2018 by RespectThis

[Lucidy 21]

55 minutes ago, YumaKirosaki said:

Lol, god I really hope they don't touch the HVR. Thankfully Matt stated he was happy with the balance as it is now so the point is already dead anyway.

Sniper rifles kill in one hit on headshot in most games anyway (and in some games, even body shots are enough), and if they don't a two shot is pretty typical. I've had far more trouble dealing with constant sidestrafing close range enemies and shoulder peeking shotguns than I've ever had against HVR users, and even then I think they're at a fine point too. If you're having issue with an HVR, just have someone switch to an HVR.

Now, maybe they could fix some of the silly gimmicks you can get away with -- like how people can uncrouch instantly, fire the HVR, and then crouch again. Or jumping HVR shots. But I wouldn't lose any sleep if they didn't touch that either. I think their efforts are better placed elsewhere.

Also there aren't headshots in APB, I don't see the point of comparison here if there's no headshots.

[Lying 0]

remove it instead

[Excalibur! 207]

On 5/27/2018 at 1:05 PM, Ken2 said:

The REAL issue with nhvr, as you can see in that vid, is not its damage... is the amount of SPEED it has.

Remember when nhvr was as heavy as an osmaw? Could you do all that is shown in that vid? Nope.

 

Ez fix, osmaw movement limiter, +equip/switching time. And lets see how it goes.

If you wrongly nerf nhvr, it could end useless.

[skerblerd 24]

Shotguns got nerfed for basically the same reason and people still use them. They are just no longer a must pick. 

 

Just give HVR the same treatment; nerf the damage 

[Virgil 55]

I thought it's always been fine, In fact, I would like to see it again pre-QS nerf.

 

3 minutes ago, :^) said:

Shotguns got nerfed for basically the same reason and people still use them. They are just no longer a must pick. 

 

Just give HVR the same treatment; nerf the damage 

Most half decent players won't pick up a shotgun. Those that do usually pick it up when they are against sub par players, meatshot someone twice, have it not kill them, and then spend the next 30 minutes talking about how fun they used to be before they pick up an OCA or PMG.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Virgil

[skerblerd 24]

4 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Most half decent players won't pick up a shotgun. Those that do usually pick it up when they are against sub par players, meatshot someone twice, have it not kill them, and then spend the next 30 minutes talking about how fun they used to be before they pick up an OCA or PMG.

Decent players use shotguns all the time. Especially on EU. ????

 

Edited May 29, 2018 by :^)

[Virgil 55]

2 minutes ago, :^) said:

People use shotguns all the time. Especially on EU. ????

Must be an American thing. Nobody I play with uses shotguns against good players, no good player i've ever seen uses a shotgun outside of the occasional one-off. an OCA or PMG serves the purpose far better, with a more certain kill (you don't have to worry about dying because your second shot wasnt 100% center mass, or because it didnt register), and at far better ranges, especially in the case of the PMG.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Virgil

[Excalibur! 207]

*Calls whole joker not good players for using shotguns*

How dare you.

[General Lee 3]

HVR's problem is mobility rather than damage. Its way too easy to tap someone with a handgun, switch to the HVR and finish them off. It also can be fired in succession very quickly. It needs additional delay on equipping it and readying it for a shot, as well as additional recoil and slower "true up" time for a lack of a better term. You could reduce the damage from 85 to 75 and mitigate the handgun trick, but it'll still be devastating given how mobile it is. A sniper rifle is a tricky thing to balance anyway. Regardless how utterly worthless you make it, it'll always be powerful in the hands of a skilled player simply by the nature in which sniper rifles operate.

[vsb 6170]

1 hour ago, YumaKirosaki said:

If you're having issue with an HVR, just have someone switch to an HVR.

 

you realize this is the exact thing that means the hvr is unbalanced right?

 

if the only thing that counters a gun is another of the same gun then theres clearly an issue somewhere

[Chinook 144]

I do not want to really even talk about N-HVR, but something needs to be done. I'm just kinda lost with it and wishing it wouldn't exist, but that's as much due to some silly mechanics (QS) in APB as it is about the gun itself. It's a fine sniper rifle if you use it only for sniping from a far, but it shouldn't be able to be used in CQC to the degree it is being used at the moment while still getting away with using it in such way. I mean QSing with it you can challenge ALL CQC WEAPONS in the game and get away with it?!?

[Zoehh 33]

2 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

you realize this is the exact thing that means the hvr is unbalanced right?

 

if the only thing that counters a gun is another of the same gun then theres clearly an issue somewhere

"why can't i counter a long range weapon being used at long range with a close quarters weapon like an smg or shotgun? game is unbalanced"

[UubeNubeh DaWog 136]

The worst thing about this thread is the lack of English comprehension in the poll.

 

Q: 1 or 2?

A: Yes

[skerblerd 24]

1 minute ago, Zoehh said:

"why can't i counter a long range weapon being used at long range with a close quarters weapon like an smg or shotgun? game is unbalanced"

And the straw-manning begins

[Rumple 35]

Please stop, LO is not yet familiar with the game. This not the time for such balancing disucssion, especially for the HVR.

[Zoehh 33]

3 minutes ago, :^) said:

And the straw-manning begins

The only argument people can make against the HVR-762 in it's current state is that they either have to swap to another long range weapon to counter it (obviously), or that it has too much alpha-damage (probably).

 

I think it's fine as is, but that's because I have a minimum amount of braincells and can outplay other's decisions.
I got called out in /w yesterday because "swapping to CSG in a close area is tryhard". Obviously I'm not going to stick to HVR for an indoors attack mission.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Zoehh

[vsb 6170]

1 minute ago, Zoehh said:

"why can't i counter a long range weapon being used at long range with a close quarters weapon like an smg or shotgun? game is unbalanced"

theres no other long range gun that truly competes with the hvr - the dmr after 88m comes the closest, followed by the obeya and obir 

 

we can also talk about how the hvr being able to compete with cqc weapons with the use of qs'ing but i would have thought that was rather well known already

[Zoehh 33]

Just now, BXNNXD said:

theres no other long range gun that truly competes with the hvr - the dmr after 88m comes the closest, followed by the obeya and obir 

 

we can also talk about how the hvr being able to compete with cqc weapons with the use of qs'ing but i would have thought that was rather well known already

 

Scout does fine, Obir/FFA is fantastic. CR762/etc is also fine, yes.
if you get QS'd you probably deserve it. If it happens more than once you're bad or your team is bad.

[skerblerd 24]

6 minutes ago, Zoehh said:

The only argument people can make against the HVR-762 in it's current state is that they either have to swap to another long range weapon to counter it (obviously), or that it has too much alpha-damage (probably).

Not any long range weapon. Another HVR-762. Nothing else will be able to challenge an HVR (besides DMR 2 shot) at range unless the HVR player is just out in the open. 

 

An Obeya will get like 2 hits off when the HVR peeks. Scout, they just wait 1 extra second to heal enough damage to not get 2 shotted. OBIR requires 3 bursts before drop off. 

 

And it's not even long range. Anytime an HVR has cover you're basically fucked if you can't spam them with nades.

Edited May 29, 2018 by :^)

[Zoehh 33]

Just now, :^) said:

Not any long range weapon. Another HVR-762. Nothing else will be able to challenge an HVR (besides DMR 2 shot) at range unless the HVR player is just out in the open. 

 

An Obeya will get like 2 hits off when the HVR peeks. Scout, they just wait 1 extra second to heal enough damage to not get 2 shotted. OBIR requires 3 bursts before drop off. 

User-error then. Stop peeking the same corner and expecting different results.

[Virgil 55]

8 minutes ago, :^) said:

Not any long range weapon. Another HVR-762. Nothing else will be able to challenge an HVR (besides DMR 2 shot) at range unless the HVR player is just out in the open. 

 

An Obeya will get like 2 hits off when the HVR peeks. Scout, they just wait 1 extra second to heal enough damage to not get 2 shotted. OBIR requires 3 bursts before drop off. 

An OBIR is great for challenging the HVR.

 

You say "two shot" like they will stand there in the field and just shoot at eachother with no cover. The OBIR is one of the most broken guns in the game, because when used properly, you will almost never get hit when returning fire because of how fast it fires off its rounds. It is so easy to even hold a close corners corner with an OBIR, i'd actually rather have one of those than a shotgun in CQC too. Sure, after distance it can start to drop off, but realistically those are pretty rare occasions or you are approaching it wrong with your weapon. Not to mention the one burst + low yield combo that any braindead can accomplish.

 

It is so so easy to just lean > fire > stand with an OBIR. If you get hit, its 1 in 100, or you're doing it wrong.

 

An Obeya is also great for fighting an HVR, because if you get the first shot, or they miss, theyre dead. Or you know, you use your brain and coordinate with your team, an HVR isn't going to lock down 4 players unless they're retards.

 

I still would like to see old QSing brought back, and most weapon balance reverted too, such as the 5shot carbine...

Edited May 29, 2018 by Virgil

[skerblerd 24]

9 minutes ago, Zoehh said:

User-error then. Stop peeking the same corner and expecting different results.

Literally irrelevant. As long as an HVR has cover, it's in the more powerful position. You can't do anything until they peek and no other weapon deal enough burst damage to challenge an HVR in a peek battle (DMR 2 shot outlier). 

9 minutes ago, Virgil said:

An OBIR is great for challenging the HVR.

 

You say "two shot" like they will stand there in the field and just shoot at eachother with no cover. The OBIR is one of the most broken guns in the game, because when used properly, you will almost never get hit when returning fire because of how fast it fires off its rounds. It is so easy to even hold a close corners corner with an OBIR.

What? The HVR loses it's effectiveness if it's out in the open. My examples were specifically about having cover, how it's always used. You're then challenging a gun that can two shot with a long grace period vs a gun that requires 3 before drop off. If an HVR tags you, are you going to challenge them? No unless the person is peabrained and misses shots constantly. 

Edited May 29, 2018 by :^)

[Virgil 55]

9 minutes ago, :^) said:

Literally irrelevant. As long as an HVR has cover, it's in the more powerful position. You can't do anything until they peek and no other weapon deal enough burst damage to challenge an HVR in a peek battle (DMR 2 shot outlier). 

What? The HVR loses it's effectiveness if it's out in the open. My examples were specifically about having cover, how it's always used. You're then challenging a gun that can two shot with a long grace period vs a gun that requires 3 before drop off. 

An OBIR is better at holding cover than an HVR is in many circumstances. All it takes is one burst, and a low yield from anybody will kill you. Not to mention, the OBIR never has to expose himself for longer than like .25 seconds to anyone. You could argue you could do the same with an HVR, but at that point, you are talking very specific angles instead of in general, such as street corners in financial where an idiot can rush you with a car and an OCA.

 

It's very easy to tap someone with a burst even when they are holding one of those angles, and then you have four entire players (or more) that can spam you with low yields (which are quite broken, mind you, especially in conjunction with consumables).

 

 

This is also all ignoring the fact that defense is very unbalanced in its current state, and it's insanely difficult to play offense in many spots against good players, which is something that should considered before revamping a significant portion of the weapon choices in the game, ESPECIALLY staples like the HVR and this is something i think was severely neglected when previous balance changes were made.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Virgil

[Zoehh 33]

3 minutes ago, :^) said:

Literally irrelevant. As long as an HVR has cover, it's in the more powerful position. You can't do anything until they peek and no other weapon deal enough burst damage to challenge an HVR in a peek battle (DMR 2 shot outlier). 

What? The HVR loses it's effectiveness if it's out in the open. My examples were specifically about having cover, how it's always used. You're then challenging a gun that can two shot with a long grace period vs a gun that requires 3 before drop off. 

You both have teams. You both have access to more than one method of attack or defense. Try use brain. 

You're not immediately OP as soon as you equip an HVR-762. You can't 1v4 at any and every range. It has it's strengths and weaknesses just like any other gun.
It's the strongest single-shot (alpha damage) gun in the game. Can you exploit that for good effect? yeah. But it's also not too hard to counter as it has a low RoF, Long reload time, low ammo supply, horrendous movement speed, Terrible accuracy while moving at all, a forced bolt-animation before you can do ANYTHING else, etc.
There are many ways of countering this weapon, and there are many ways of countering other weapons. Do what you have to in the moment and try to break yourself out of the loop you've obviously fallen into. Meta is neat and all, but you can't restrict your thinking this much and expect to improve.