Weapon Balance - Community discussion

[Excalibur! 207]

9 minutes ago, 悲しい春 said:

That's the thing, if you start the nerf circle, there has to be a gun that becomes dominant over the other. A test district, as mentioned by the user you've quoted, would be fantastic to test out the issues people have with some guns.

I find that the NTEC's current state is a nice balance point, from which on other guns are supposed to be buffed and/or nerfed. It's supposed to be the most versatile gun and most played gun, like the AK in CS (IMO)

The Scout part, as I've made a post on it as well, I disagree on. A compromise would be to make it like in CS, but that would be essentially the same thing just a bit worse.

The HVR, on the damage part you're 100% right, heck I'd even try out 720dmg, like in the old high ttk servers. You have a point on the noscoping part as well. You can noscope to extreme ranges, nerfing it by making the crosshair bigger (a.k.a decreasing crouching accuracy as mentioned), would be interesting to play test at least.

 

 

Another one that brings cs to apb? That game only reduces to who pulls awp first and thats why i quited it.

[GhosT 1301]

1 minute ago, Ken2 said:

So yeah, lets every gun a ntec and make the game BORING. Really good idea!!!

 

Its imposible to get killed as fast as you mention at more than 40m with the current character speed and cover you can get. If you get killed all the time by ntec at that kind of range, then its really  a SKILL issue.

 

That's not what I said, at all.

Please stop making up random things.

[Excalibur! 207]

1 minute ago, GhosT said:

 

That's not what I said, at all.

Please stop making up random things.

You said, nerf ntec, buff every other gun to ntec level. Thats called variety.

 

Did you know that inside weapons category, there are at least 3 kind of weapon for diferent ranges?

[yourrandomnobody74 106]

3 minutes ago, GhosT said:

 

Finally someone that knows what he's talking about.

In my opinion, the N-TEC kills too fast at most ranges, and should be slowed down a little bit by lowering the recovery time.

Then balance all the weak guns around it so they're comparable to the N-TEC, and not just flat-out weaker.

 

I fear that if we balance guns around the current N-TEC, we'll be having tons of weapons that kill incredibly fast with little time to react and outgun your opponent, which results in a game that plays like call of duty, where skill isn't all too important.

 

That would bring up the high TTK topic again, which is sadly a far away galaxy as many don't like this approach to the game.

Honestly now, I haven't played APB that extensively in a year or so, forgot how quick the NTEC is. A slower recovery time could work out quite well, but as I've said, a test server that has weekly changes applied to it (community as a whole decides on changes by voting) would work wonders!

[Tobii 346]

2 minutes ago, Ken2 said:

Another one that brings cs to apb? That game only reduces to who pulls awp first and thats why i quited it.

Then why aren't pro players playing 5 AWPS?...

[yourrandomnobody74 106]

4 minutes ago, Ken2 said:

Another one that brings cs to apb? That game only reduces to who pulls awp first and thats why i quited it.

There isn't any other game that I could think of at that moment. Besides, it's the most popular FPS eSport, so yeah.

Comparing APB to Quake/CPMA, PUBG, OW doesn't work out as well because they're completely different games.

Fortnite COULD slightly compare to APB, but it's a completely different genre that doesn't focus on weapons that much.

[CookiePuss 5379]

I heard GhosT enjoys the smell of his own farts.

... just saying

[GhosT 1301]

5 minutes ago, Ken2 said:

You said, nerf ntec, buff every other gun to ntec level. Thats called variety.

 

Did you know that inside weapons category, there are at least 3 kind of weapon for diferent ranges?

I haven't said every other gun. I'm talking about the weapons that compare to the N-TEC, like some of the other, weaker assault rifles.

 

5 minutes ago, 悲しい春 said:

That would bring up the high TTK topic again, which is sadly a far away galaxy as many don't like this approach to the game.

Honestly now, I haven't played APB that extensively in a year or so, forgot how quick the NTEC is. A slower recovery time could work out quite well, but as I've said, a test server that has weekly changes applied to it (community as a whole decides on changes by voting) would work wonders!

 

Depends on what you picture as high TTK. The N-TEC is one of the lowest TTK weapons in the game, and lowering it a bit would bring it down to most of the other weapons.

 

The test server/district to try out potential weapon changes is a very good idea and should be reintroduced to gather as much feedback as possible, but your balance focus shouldn't be 100% on what the players say. Some games have done that before and it's a mess.

 

1 minute ago, CookiePuss said:

I heard GhosT enjoys the smell of his own farts.

... just saying

 

Doesn't everyone secretly fart under their blanket and then sniff it?

Edited May 27, 2018 by GhosT
Added cookies quote.

[Excalibur! 207]

1 minute ago, 悲しい春 said:

There isn't any other game that I could think of at that moment. Besides, it's the most popular FPS eSport, so yeah.

Comparing APB to Quake/CPMA, PUBG, OW doesn't work out as well because they're completely different games.

Fortnite COULD slightly compare to APB, but it's a completely different genre that doesn't focus on weapons that much.

Because you dont need to compare any other game to apb, really

[Excalibur! 207]

Just now, GhosT said:

I haven't said every other gun. I'm talking about the weapons that compare to the N-TEC, like some of the other, weaker assault rifles.

 

 

Depends on what you picture as high TTK. The N-TEC is one of the lowest TTK weapons in the game, and lowering it a bit would bring it down to most of the other weapons.

And thats exactly what im talking about. Star does mostly well at shorter ranges than ntec... as jg is better the closest you are to your enemy compared to pmg.

 

A simple example would be then: nerf pmg or oca because jg doesnt have enough range to kill those weapons at 30m. Does it sound fair to you?

[yourrandomnobody74 106]

1 minute ago, GhosT said:

I haven't said every other gun. I'm talking about the weapons that compare to the N-TEC, like some of the other, weaker assault rifles.

 

 

Depends on what you picture as high TTK. The N-TEC is one of the lowest TTK weapons in the game, and lowering it a bit would bring it down to most of the other weapons.

 

The test server/district to try out potential weapon changes is a very good idea and should be reintroduced to gather as much feedback as possible, but your balance focus shouldn't be 100% on what the players say. Some games have done that before and it's a mess.

Meant high TTK as in RTW ttk or the old high ttk districts. I remember being fascinated and baffled by how nice they were.

Yeaaaaaah, I kinda forgot mid-way about the 'focusing balance around what players say' part and how messy that can be.

 

[Scoreson 6]

1 hour ago, GhosT said:

I'm going to disagree on that, the pre-nerf N-TEC was even stronger than the one we have right now, it was a legit problem to most of the community.

Bringing back the jump shot accuracy of the scout isn't a good idea either. You could accurately shoot people while flying just as fast as sprinting, while having pin point accuracy. To top that off, you could do that over cars and walls, which made it really powerful, and a few objectives very hard to attack/defend. The only downside was that your movement path was predictable, but that didn't balance it out.

As i said in my quote from 2014, in 2013 everyone was saying the ntec was the most balanced weapon in the game. This changed after G1 nerfed the obir and obeya, after that the ntec became the most effective gun in the game and this is why it was nerfed in 2015, it's an infinite loop without an easy way out. We have to look at the game balance in general, it's not only about the hvr and ntec, there are plenty of guns that aren't being used simply because they are not worth taking in consideration, even if the hvr and n-tec get changed the gameplay will still feel repetitive and heavily influenced by the map.

The gameplay being influenced by the map is a good thing but it shouldn't be over-influenced, this would force players to always make the same choices and decisions (guns, positioning, strategies).

This is the reason why i'm all in for a smoother damage curve, giving the possibility of more dynamic and fun fights where the winner is determined by who played better and not who had the best gun for that specific situation. You could argue that having the right gun at the right time is part of a strategy, but as i said before, that would end up in having so many repetitive fights and matches that it would get boring really quick (just like the game in it's current state).

We are far off from a good weapon/mod balance right now that if we want new content added we should first think at what we have available at the moment and why it isn't being used, for example in mission districts i don't see any act 44, rsa, dmr, cobra, tommygun, n-fa9, (scout sometimes, very rarely), nssw, nfas (not including the ogre), every stun weapon, s-as pdw, shaw (except cheaters) and star.

Only some random silvers will use these, all the rest of the player base will resort to the usual meta.

 

As for the jump shot accuracy for the scout, it can be increased, but not made 100%, it was a great feature that made that gun really fun to use and dynamic at the same time.

As i proposed in the previous post, i think we should have a testing district back in which we should test the old gameplay mechanics with additional changes. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by Scoreson

[GhosT 1301]

3 minutes ago, Ken2 said:

And thats exactly what im talking about. Star does mostly well at shorter ranges than ntec... as jg is better the closest you are to your enemy compared to pmg.

 

A simple example would be then: nerf pmg or oca because jg doesnt have enough range to kill those weapons at 30m. Does it sound fair to you?

At this point I'll stop replying to you. You are not capable of understanding what I say, and you have clearly no idea how balancing things work.

This discussion is going nowhere. I've said everything about the N-TEC that I think is problematic, and I'll leave it at that.

 

PM me if you wanna continue, but I won't continue cluttering up this topic because of you.

 

1 minute ago, 悲しい春 said:

Meant high TTK as in RTW ttk or the old high ttk districts. I remember being fascinated and baffled by how nice they were.

Yeaaaaaah, I kinda forgot mid-way about the 'focusing balance around what players say' part and how messy that can be.

 

 

Yeah that high TTK district was a joke, and didn't even come close to what RTW was like. Everything was just too slow.

[yourrandomnobody74 106]

3 minutes ago, Ken2 said:

And thats exactly what im talking about. Star does mostly well at shorter ranges than ntec... as jg is better the closest you are to your enemy compared to pmg.

 

A simple example would be then: nerf pmg or oca because jg doesnt have enough range to kill those weapons at 30m. Does it sound fair to you?

The PMG is more powerful than the JG in most CQC scenario, except REALLY CQC and cornerpeeking (we're talking till 10m, even then, the JG just decides to be random and be a 3 shot.)

There's a point up until certain guns should be buffed/nerfed, especially the wide variety of guns APB possesses. This is why test districts with feedback and data (kill % vs similar weapons in same range etc.) are splendid for weapon balancing.

[Excalibur! 207]

6 minutes ago, GhosT said:

At this point I'll stop replying to you. You are not capable of understanding what I say, and you have clearly no idea how balancing things work.

This discussion is going nowhere. I've said everything about the N-TEC that I think is problematic, and I'll leave it at that.

 

PM me if you wanna continue, but I won't continue cluttering up this topic because of you.

 

 

Yeah that high TTK district was a joke, and didn't even come close to what RTW was like. Everything was just too slow.

You should learn about how weapons work, ping, items, enviroments etcs. In short, learn the game all over.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Ken2

[GhosT 1301]

1 minute ago, Ken2 said:

You should learn about how weapons work, ping, items, enviroments etcs. In short, learn the game all over.

 

We have never discussed pings, items or environments. Stop bringing up things that never were a topic to begin with.

Bye.

[yourrandomnobody74 106]

10 minutes ago, GhosT said:

Yeah that high TTK district was a joke, and didn't even come close to what RTW was like. Everything was just too slow.

I do recall people being unsatisfied with how G1 didn't apply the proper patch in each districts, thus unable to properly test out higher TTK.

But you get my point, I find the current ttk a gray zone for me. I neither dislike nor like it. Dirty Bomb is an example of a TTK (higher than APB) I prefer, it enforces more mouse aiming and tracking imo.

Edited May 27, 2018 by 悲しい春

[GhosT 1301]

4 minutes ago, 悲しい春 said:

I do recall people being unsatisfied with how G1 didn't apply the proper patch in each districts, thus unable to properly test out higher TTK.

But you get my point, I find the current ttk a gray zone for me. I neither dislike nor like it. Dirty Bomb is an example of a TTK I like prefer, it enforces more mouse aiming and tracking imo.

Yeah, the whole attempt of bringing in a high TTK district was horrible. They never even tried to fix it, so it would actually be what RTW once was.

 

The current average TTK is perfectly fine to me, and APB should stay that way. It's only the N-TEC that can kill too fast on all ranges imho. It's sometimes faster or more effective than, for example, the Obeya and the OBIR - guns that were designed to fill that gap between assault rifles and sniper rifles, but the N-TEC does that job just fine so why bother with marksman rifles?

 

Edited May 27, 2018 by GhosT
Added a sentence.

[vsb 6171]

2 hours ago, Gizzly said:

 

DogEar: Remove damage drop off.

 

what

 

the dog ear is a 4stk out to 100m iirc

 

tbh the gun is far too versatile, if anything it needs a hard damage reduction or increased bloom

[skerblerd 24]

 

 

[Excalibur! 207]

11 minutes ago, GhosT said:

 

We have never discussed pings, items or environments. Stop bringing up things that never were a topic to begin with.

Bye.

And they are important part of the game too.

 

Did you know that not everyone plays as local? And that people with high ping benefits more with weapons with high fire rate and low damage? Did you know enviroments highly play a roll into defining who will be more succesful on a fight depending on their current weapon equiped? Thats why taking a look at your enemies weapons is a good first movement to know what they are cappable off. Second check your enviroment and finally decide what weapon is more suitable for the situation.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Ken2

[Excalibur! 207]

Heck this guy needs so much to learn that i do not even care when he is so focused into nerfing a single gun.

[HK33E 40]

8 hours ago, GamingFloid said:

Hey Guys ^^

 

I have been following the dev-updates and the stream last Friday, and they talked about weapon balance in armas and in the normal shop.

I think weapon balance is better when the player base points out some problems here and there. In my opinion we have a better feeling what gun is too good and wich Weapon is too weak and easily outgunned.

I will not post my own opinion here so it is a clear start to talk about it, and is not another "My opinion" post.

 

I do think we know that better then a designer who is knew to this game ^^

sry about my english im from Austria

 

 

 

They need to give us exact numbers concernig the Weapon, the current measure system looks like it's there for no real purpose, only to be something more on the screen.

[yourrandomnobody74 106]

7 minutes ago, :^) said:

 

 

yeah, this is why you attack QS by attacking HVR damage and the pull out time maybe.

great song btw!

[Excalibur! 207]

13 minutes ago, :^) said:

 

 

The REAL issue with nhvr, as you can see in that vid, is not its damage... is the amount of SPEED it has.

Remember when nhvr was as heavy as an osmaw? Could you do all that is shown in that vid? Nope.

 

Ez fix, osmaw movement limiter, +equip/switching time. And lets see how it goes.

If you wrongly nerf nhvr, it could end useless.