Weapon Balance - Community discussion

[GamingFloid 0]

Hey Guys ^^

 

I have been following the dev-updates and the stream last Friday, and they talked about weapon balance in armas and in the normal shop.

I think weapon balance is better when the player base points out some problems here and there. In my opinion we have a better feeling what gun is too good and wich Weapon is too weak and easily outgunned.

I will not post my own opinion here so it is a clear start to talk about it, and is not another "My opinion" post.

 

I do think we know that better then a designer who is knew to this game ^^

sry about my english im from Austria

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2018 by GamingFloid

[CookiePuss 5373]

Please, dont change anything. The guns are fine. You just have to be willing to adjust your playstyle to your opp's loadout. I honestly believe this. 

And no, I never use the Ogre, the Yukon, or the Volcano as I feel they are unnecessary. I also very rarely touch the heavy HVR. 

All my opinion of course. 

[AgentWatson 85]

I think the obvious one is HVR, the other one being OCA. The sort of recent relatively speaking of course, changes to the OCA put a lot of the other SMG's into an awkward position. I don't like power creep, personally I feel overdamage should just not exist in the game but remain exclusively for snipers. For instance something like the Colby 45 just as example should just do 200 damage, I think this should apply for every gun that isn't a sniper. 

 

I also believe Little Orbit should avoid putting anything extra into the game that may induce faster encounter times, drawn out gun fighters are more preferable in my opinion. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by AgentWatson

[Necros 0]

Oh boy, here we go:

 

Scout with the jumping shoot and fast switch.

Remove the firerate lock from FBW and Carbine.

Reverse the Ntec, HVR and CSG.

 

@edit later if i miss something.

 

[HandThatFeeds 0]

Why would they remove any firerate locks?

 

And there's nothing wrong with the CSG now

 

The N-Tec just needs to be less effective at all ranges.. if they lower the distance and increase damage dropoff on weapons, a lot of weapons will be good to go. The Star isn't really too far behind the N-tec

[AgentWatson 85]

1 minute ago, Necros said:

Oh boy, here we go:

 

Scout with the jumping shoot and fast switch.

Remove the firerate lock from FBW and Carbine.

Reverse the Ntec, HVR and CSG.

 

@edit later if i miss something.

 

All those guns are fine the way they're. Remember those were changes that the community requested to be changed in the first place. The CSG is simply just outmatched by the OCA in CQC, hence why its sort of fallen out of the meta. I think the changes to the weapons are adequate, the changes to the FBW and Carbine are there to prevent macro users getting a huge advantage and although you can still get people who use macros it still prevents them from getting a huge advantage over standard players. 

 

I would not be a fan of your suggestions because it's practically everything we originally asked for being completely reversed and although you can argue that the NHVR and Scout aren't as good anymore that opens up the meta to things like the Dog Ear. 

[Necros 0]

13 hours ago, AgentWatson said:

All those guns are fine the way they're. Remember those were changes that the community requested to be changed in the first place. The CSG is simply just outmatched by the OCA in CQC, hence why its sort of fallen out of the meta. I think the changes to the weapons are adequate, the changes to the FBW and Carbine are there to prevent macro users getting a huge advantage and although you can still get people who use macros it still prevents them from getting a huge advantage over standard players. 

 

I would not be a fan of your suggestions because it's practically everything we originally asked for being completely reversed and although you can argue that the NHVR and Scout aren't as good anymore that opens up the meta to things like the Dog Ear. 

Ntec was good before, it was no problem to fight good players with ntec the way it was before. About the macro for fbw and carbine, people can still use it, even with the firerate the way its. Scout got a unique mechanic back in the day, where you could fight close combat with the weapon.

 

And the nerf on HVR is the worst, making the weapon a "support" weapon. You cant fight people up close anymore.

 

Edited May 27, 2018 by Necros

[CookiePuss 5373]

19 minutes ago, AgentWatson said:

The CSG is simply just outmatched by the OCA in CQC, hence why its sort of fallen out of the meta.

These guns have what are called "situational advantages" over one another. 

The OCA starts with a slighty faster ttk 0.64 vs 0.68 for the csg, but ttk isnt everything. If you are playing either the csg or the jg correctly, you are utilizing cover so as to minimize exposure to your enemy thereby taking advantage of the shotguns' inherent burst damage quality. Or in other words, you dont have to expose yourself long enough for OCA to kill you. This is especially advantageous in defense scenarios where you can exploit cover. But to counter that advantag, this only works with perfect aim. Slight mistakes can turn a 2 shot kill into a 3 or even 4 shot kill increasing your overall time of exposure. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by CookiePuss

[Jilleroo 349]

20 minutes ago, Necros said:

Remove the firerate lock from FBW and Carbine.

Are you the dumbest **** ever? Using macros to obtain oppressively consistent firerates is also bannable from what I remember. If you've ever played CoD4 with a modded controller and a G3 you'll understand that it's too good with unlocked fire rates; it had one of the best (if not the most) TTK rates of any of the guns. It was insane.

[AxeTurboAgresor 268]

@CookiePuss completely disagree.

There are a lots of weapons that are absolutely useless in competetive match, therefore needs to be buffed. No good player would ever put his hands on this weapons.

Damn, its actually easier to name guns, that are not useless, rather than weapons that needs buff to be brought on lights of competetive fights.

 

All Pack of Revelations weapons are just a joke. U need to rly search for challenge or hate urself to play with these weapons.

Other than that: COBR-A, ISSR, S1-FA, Scoped N-TEC, EOL, DMR, NCR-762, S1-TIC, SHAW, SWARM, SBSR, DOW, Shredder SB, Agrotech ACES (smg), Colby M-1922, Norseman

All of listed weapons above need big or little buff (in TTK, damage, in how the weapon acts, effective range, amount of ammo in magazine/stored ammo, accuracy, recoil,). There is no doubt that you put yourself in the challenge if you play with any of these weapons, and it should not be like that.

[Abduct / Devote 69]

43 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Please, dont change anything. The guns are fine. You just have to be willing to adjust your playstyle to your opp's loadout. I honestly believe this. 

And no, I never use the Ogre, the Yukon, or the Volcano as I feel they are unnecessary. I also very rarely touch the heavy HVR. 

All my opinion of course. 

But this indicates that there is a problem, because you rarely touch the HVR. I've played with the HVR plenty, it's not fine where it is. There's a reason everyone hates seeing one.

[Jilleroo 349]

2 minutes ago, AxeTurboAgresor said:

SHAW

Lol.

 

1vs1 me, bruh.

[HandThatFeeds 0]

1 minute ago, AxeTurboAgresor said:

@CookiePuss completely disagree.

There are a lots of weapons that are absolutely useless in competetive match, therefore needs to be buffed. No good player would ever put his hands on this weapons.

Damn, its actually easier to name guns, that are not useless, rather than weapons that needs buff to be brought on lights of competetive fights.

 

All Pack of Revelations weapons are just a joke. U need to rly search for challenge or hate urself to play with these weapons.

Other than that: COBR-A, ISSR, S1-FA, Scoped N-TEC, EOL, DMR, NCR-762, S1-TIC, SHAW, SWARM, SBSR, DOW, Shredder SB, Agrotech ACES (smg), Colby M-1922, Norseman

All of listed weapons above need big or little buff (in TTK, damage, in how the weapon acts, effective range, amount of ammo in magazine/stored ammo, accuracy, recoil,). There is no doubt that you put yourself in the challenge if you play with any of these weapons, and it should not be like that.

ISSR, Scoped N-tec, DMR AV, SHAW, DOW, Shredder, and M-1922 are all fine to me.. 

[CookiePuss 5373]

7 minutes ago, Abduct / Devote said:

But this indicates that there is a problem, because you rarely touch the HVR. I've played with the HVR plenty, it's not fine where it is. There's a reason everyone hates seeing one.

While I personally don't have a problem with the heavy HVR, I do recognize that there is a widespread dislike for this weapon's viability at all ranges given its high damage output. I personally dont play it because I find more success using other weapons, and I assure you Im sweaty af when I play, so Im not just avoiding the HVR for any moral reasons, and a nerf to it wouldnt affect me in any real way. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by CookiePuss

[AxeTurboAgresor 268]

@HandThatFeeds For bronze district maybe.

Nothing changes the fact, that you put yourself into challenge unnecessarily, playing with these weapons.

 

No so called "tryhard player" would put his hands on this weapons. Why would they? Its much easier to take JG, CSG, Ntec, Joker Carbine, HVR, Scout, Oca, and play normal...

U must be joking me.

 

@Evagelyne U rly like challenges, arent u? Ic

Edited May 27, 2018 by AxeTurboAgresor

[Lign 361]

The only guns need to be nerfed are hvr, oca and ntec, especially ntec. Right now, about 70% of playerbase is using only ntec because it's a great weapon for all situations that can beat literally every weapon in the game. I mained n-tec and I know what I'm talking about, these cornerpeaking and jumpshooting can easily outplay close range weapons such as jg/pmg or oca. On the mid-long range there's insane accuracy at tap firing. The only weapon can be compared to ntec is obeya 762 but playing in close range with this gun is a challenge

[Necros 0]

13 hours ago, Evagelyne said:

Are you the dumbest **** ever? Using macros to obtain oppressively consistent firerates is also bannable from what I remember. If you've ever played CoD4 with a modded controller and a G3 you'll understand that it's too good with unlocked fire rates; it had one of the best (if not the most) TTK rates of any of the guns. It was insane.

Calm down man, like i said: "About the macro for fbw and carbine, people can still use it, even with the firerate the way its."

I never said i use macro or anything, i just pointed the firerate lock. For me, the old FBW was good, carbine too.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Necros

[cerv 14]

I believe that the HVR needs its ability to quickswitch removed and potentially a damage nerf to around 750-800.

Reduce the N-tecs mag size to 26 and bring up an assault rifle that can compete with it in the meta but not replace it or be the exact same. (Whether new or already existing)

Standardise the range on the OCA Whisper & Moddable PDW Kris to be the same as the regular oca. 

Slight carbine accuracy buff. It doesn't see enough use compared to the OSCAR in gold matches.

JG needs some sort of change to make it less RNG on whether it decides to 2 shot in its intended range or not.

ATAC needs its buff reversed as it was completely fine where it was previously.

Low yields need to be reduced to 2 grenades. There is no reason to use frag grenades at the moment even if low yields currently do less damage. Their speed, the timer, and the fact you have 3 of them is just too good.

 

There's probably more I could come up with but I cba atm.

[HandThatFeeds 0]

Just now, AxeTurboAgresor said:

@HandThatFeeds For bronze district maybe.

Nothing changes the fact, that you put yourself into challenge unnecessarily, playing with these weapons.

 

No so called "tryhard player" would put his hands on this weapons. Why would they? Its much easier to take JG, CSG, Ntec, Joker Carbine, HVR, Scout, Oca, and play normal...

U must be joking me.

A Shaw kills incredibly fast and unless people have spent $700, no other LMG beats it for killing people out of cars.

 

A scoped n-tec is an n-tec with high magnification and a higher max range so.. it's better for some.

 

ISSR stands in the same place as an LCR and rocks for mid-long range just like the Dog's Ear.

 

DMR AV is situational, but still a great weapon to use at range and against vehicles.

 

DOW and shredder both have decent range for shotguns and when using a shotgun with cover or corners effectively, it'll beat any pmg or oca user. (shredder is decent hard damage as well)

 

M1922 has a .68 second TTK and a larger magazine.. only takes 10 shots to kill, but with 50 rounds to a mag, it's good for covering hallways as well as rushing

[Jilleroo 349]

5 minutes ago, HandThatFeeds said:

A Shaw kills incredibly fast and unless people have spent $700, no other LMG beats it for killing people out of cars.

A better way to put it is: It has the fastest TTK of any gun in the game, for people like me who use it constantly, those rates are consistent. As for cars, that's what a conc is for.

[Lign 361]

6 minutes ago, cerv said:

I believe that the HVR needs its ability to quickswitch removed and potentially a damage nerf to around 750-800.

Reduce the N-tecs mag size to 26 and bring up an assault rifle that can compete with it in the meta but not replace it or be the exact same. (Whether new or already existing)

Standardise the range on the OCA Whisper & Moddable PDW Kris to be the same as the regular oca. 

Slight carbine accuracy buff. It doesn't see enough use compared to the OSCAR in gold matches.

JG needs some sort of change to make it less RNG on whether it decides to 2 shot in its intended range or not.

ATAC needs its buff reversed as it was completely fine where it was previously.

Low yields need to be reduced to 2 grenades. There is no reason to use frag grenades at the moment even if low yields currently do less damage. Their speed, the timer, and the fact you have 3 of them is just too good.

 

There's probably more I could come up with but I cba atm.

Quickswitch should stay but be nerfed by reducing damage per shot by hvr. 700-750 should be the best. N-tec should get reduced accuracy and increased bloom by 2%, that will make it more challengeable. Carbine needs to get accuracy buff a bit, it's still good weapon in my opinion, one of the best, but sometimes rng makes me cancer. Atac is fine, I don't want to see it as a laser gun again as it was before the nerf. That's only my opinion

[AxeTurboAgresor 268]

Why would u want Ntec to be nerfed? Ntec is skill based and very skill rewarding weapon with ttk of 0.7s that is consdered as normal ttk for APB.

OCA and PMG are absolutely fine at what they supposed to do. 

 

@HandThatFeeds SHAW was nerfed and since then almost nobody is using it.

Scoped ntec = ntec with increased zoom, and higher spead while movin while aiming.

ISSR has too high TTK for assault rifle. Eiter lower its TTK, or fix accuracy

DMR needs more ammo, and less spread

Why would anybody use DOW and Shreadder? Exactly, nobody uses it. JG, CSG, Nfas completely puts this shotguns aside. JG is cool weapon.. i dont understand whats the problem for ppl above.

M1922.. too big recoil, zoom, and needs to be aimed down the sight.. and its SMG =used in cqc. Very unconfortable. Its better to take OCA/PMG/ACES rifle for more accuracy, comfort, and less TTK.

 

Again, I do not doubt that you can kill with this weapons, but they are crap compared to weapons that are normaly used in COMPETETIVE matches.

 

Edited May 27, 2018 by AxeTurboAgresor

[AgentWatson 85]

30 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

These guns have what are called "situational advantages" over one another. 

The OCA starts with a slighty faster ttk 0.64 vs 0.68 for the csg, but ttk isnt everything. If you are playing either the csg or the jg correctly, you are utilizing cover so as to minimize exposure to your enemy thereby taking advantage of the shotguns' inherent burst damage quality. Or in other words, you dont have to expose yourself long enough for OCA to kill you. This is especially advantageous in defense scenarios where you can exploit cover. But to counter that advantag, this only works with perfect aim. Slight mistakes can turn a 2 shot kill into a 3 or even 4 shot kill increasing your overall time of exposure. 

Yes I know, but as very situational the CSG is you have to absolutely make sure that everytime you're getting the optimal shot on a person and even then you're not guaranteed that you'll get good spread. But not every situation you'll have cover, not in every situation you'll get optimal spread etc. There are a lot of "what if's" when you're talking about the advantages of the CSG but anything is good in theory if you have sufficient cover and your enemy doesn't. No amount of "perfect aim" will help you, because you can hit every shot perfectly with the CSG but still can end up with situations where you may of had to hit them 3-4 times still, it's just an inherent flaw with shotguns in this game.

 

The consistency of the OCA makes it an obvious go to, because missing a few shots here and there don't put you in a constantly perilous situation the higher range also add to that consistency that CSG just doesn't have. Shotguns in my opinion should be reliant but only at their intended range, reduce range on shotguns if need be but increase their effectiveness up to 10m. 

[DeadlyKittens 1]

I would like to be able to use the trouble maker again, but ever since they nerfed it I can't hit the broadside of a barn if I close the door behind me

[N0rbat 29]

uhm.. drop HVR 762 dmg to 72 (i think this was the value once tested in Test server) otherwise nerf n-tec (just do anything to avoid being this gun all range solution meta weapon) buff norseman,