OTW 8/17 Balance changes

[FluttershyI 52]

These changes are a great idea! Will be interesting to see more variety in-game due to rifling and AR changes... Just the current shotgun vs SMG's, not sure

[notHunky 32]

As someone already pointed out, I don't think the problem with the NTEC was that it was more accurate and could reach out at longer distances than other assault rifles, but that it works way too well in close quarters.

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

22 hours ago, TheJellyGoo said:

Why should any of you get praise for leaking information that they themselves didn't deem fit for release?
You're misunderstanding Matts tone and are lucky to not have your rights on the board revoked. 

I am not the one who posted OTW information on the public forum board themselves to be seen.

[TheJellyGoo 343]

9 minutes ago, NotZombieBiscuit said:

22 hours ago, TheJellyGoo said:

Why should any of you get praise for leaking information that they themselves didn't deem fit for release?
You're misunderstanding Matts tone and are lucky to not have your rights on the board revoked. 

I am not the one who posted OTW information on the public forum board themselves to be seen.

Obviously? Don't try to harp on the specifics it's about the general message.

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

1 minute ago, TheJellyGoo said:

Obviously? Don't try to harp on the specifics it's about the general message.

But I need something to harp about.

Edited August 19, 2018 by NotZombieBiscuit

[Tobii 346]

On 8/18/2018 at 11:39 AM, TheJellyGoo said:

Why should any of you get praise for leaking information that they themselves didn't deem fit for release?
You're misunderstanding Matts tone and are lucky to not have your rights on the board revoked. 

The post was public. I just cleaned it up.
I am not seeing the issue here?

[Revoluzzer 274]

I'd like to see both N-Tec variants rolled into one, but with its original accuracy-behaviour given back.
The ammo-nerf seems uncalled for. The STAR has the same number of potential kills per mag. Giving both the same damage per bullet is more logical, imo.
Really, as far as I'm concerned, the STAR and N-Tec should only differ in their accuracy-behaviour. STAR allowing low recoil, sustained fire with gradual accuracy degradation from very high initial accuracy; N-Tec allowing relatively precise individual shots, but high recoil, rapid degradation under sustained fire (none of that curves-behaviour, mind you).

The OCA should just be reverted to its original state. It was a great baseline for other SMGs to derive from.

[CookiePuss 5382]

I kinda wish we could have 2 variants of the exact same gun in the same district to test.
Like one current version ntec and one new version ntec. (not the same as scoped and non scoped)
So we could switch back and forth quickly to get a better feel for how the guns behave in actual gameplay scenarios.

 

[TheJellyGoo 343]

56 minutes ago, Tobii said:

The post was public. I just cleaned it up.
I am not seeing the issue here?

Well, now in hindsight and with the way everything sorted itself out - no issue!
I personally appreciate the clean up however it still makes the OTW section obsolete and redundant which again I personally don't mind though.
Social is the way to go if someone wants decent feedback 

[CookiePuss 5382]

I keep rereading the CSG changes.
Increased range from 7.5m to 10m at the cost of raising ttk from .68 to .8 seconds.

This makes little sense to me, and I can explain why.

Due to the difference in pellet spread at 10m between the JG (150cm) and the CSG (85cm), the CSG already has the benefit of IR3 being much more useful than it is on the JG (the tighter spread making the mod useful whereas the worse spread on the JG means you miss more of your pellets while using it).
The ttk of the CSG with IR3 is already .8024. This made sense because you were given 7.5m (15m from 7.5m with current IR version) of actual useful range over the JG, at the cost of the increased ttk.
Now, by increasing the base ttk to .8 you have made the CSG basically useless in the extreme cqc niche in which you claim shotguns should excel. Hell, even the Norsemen weapons can now out ttk the CSG throughout its entire effective range of 10m. Not to mention, if you have one of the preset CSGs with IR3, your ttk is now going to be .994
Just let that sink in
.994 ttk for a shotgun with at best a max range of 17.5m (with current IR version).

Ive yet to have a chance to test this is mission districts, hopefully one of these days we can get enough players on OTW to try.
But I fail to see how this change does anything but make the CSG obsolete.

We'll see.


EDIT: Just wanted to add that if the latest IR stats go live (%increase in range +flat increase instead of just flat number increase), the range of an IR3 CSG will only be 14.5m with a ttk of .994

I cant be the only one who finds this insane am I?
 

Edited August 19, 2018 by CookiePuss

[Unclean 45]

5 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

I keep rereading the CSG changes.
Increased range from 7.5m to 10m at the cost of raising ttk from .68 to .8 seconds.

This makes little sense to me, and I can explain why.

Due to the difference in pellet spread at 10m between the JG (150cm) and the CSG (85cm), the CSG already has the benefit of IR3 being much more useful than it is on the JG (the tighter spread making the mod useful whereas the worse spread on the JG means you miss more of your pellets while using it).
The ttk of the CSG with IR3 is already .8024. This made sense because you were given 7.5m (15m from 7.5m) of actual useful range over the JG, at the cost of the increased ttk.
Now, by increasing the base ttk to .8 you have made the JG basically useless in the extreme cqc niche in which you claim shotguns should excel. Hell, even the Norsemen weapons can now out ttk the csg throughout its entire effective range of 10m. Not to mention, if you have one of the preset CSGs with IR3, your ttk is not going to be .994
Just let that sink in
.994 ttk for a shotgun with at best a max range of 17.5m

Ive yet to have a chance to test this is mission districts, hopefully one of these days we can get enough players on OTW to try.
But I fail to see how this change does anything but make the CSG obsolete.

We'll see.

 

I guess it makes the CSG sit between the JG and the shredder... But I think the change is still a little bit drastic. The CSG, JG, and NFAS should have lower TTK than the shredder because they are limited to those ranges. I admit I haven't used the csg/tas20 since the change, but the fact that I don't see it as much as the other weapons means people aren't finding it as useful as the shredder and JG.

On a side note, I got like 6 reactions to my "less nerf, more buff" comment within one minute hours after I posted it so I'm guessing it was misinterpreted lol. I just want the weapons that aren't used at all to be brought up to a playable standard like the ARs and shotguns are being brought up to. I'mm sure we will see more PMGs after OCA gets it's little nerf, but the rest of the SMGs need a little love. The Norseman and Colby 1922 are almost never used anymore

[CookiePuss 5382]

6 minutes ago, Unclean said:

I guess it makes the CSG sit between the JG and the shredder... But I think the change is still a little bit drastic. The CSG, JG, and NFAS should have lower TTK than the shredder because they are limited to those ranges. I admit I haven't used the csg/tas20 since the change, but the fact that I don't see it as much as the other weapons means people aren't finding it as useful as the shredder and JG.

Edited my post, had a few errors, and I forgot to address the proposed %IR change on OTW.

[Tobii 346]

3 hours ago, TheJellyGoo said:

Well, now in hindsight and with the way everything sorted itself out - no issue!
I personally appreciate the clean up however it still makes the OTW section obsolete and redundant which again I personally don't mind though.
Social is the way to go if someone wants decent feedback 

Read my OP. If it wasn't for the fact that the post was public, but not accessible, I wouldn't have done anything.
I went by the assumption that it was posted and he went to bed without checked the forum.

They could've removed the post for all I care, that's why it was called [TEMP TOPIC] because I figured they would merge the two.

[TheJellyGoo 343]

18 minutes ago, Tobii said:

Read my OP. If it wasn't for the fact that the post was public, but not accessible, I wouldn't have done anything.
I went by the assumption that it was posted and he went to bed without checked the forum.

They could've removed the post for all I care, that's why it was called [TEMP TOPIC] because I figured they would merge the two.

Well, see like I said it's all sorted now but the phrasing in OP is very different to what you said just now.

Admin note saying the post wasn't supposed to go live and you mentioning an "inaccessible part of the forum" doesn't in any way hint towards a public thread which could have been left closed by accident.
Considering it was all just a playful reference to Zombies comment anyway there is no need for you to justify yourself any more than already done. I understand.
Again, thanks for the easy read.

[Tobii 346]

47 minutes ago, TheJellyGoo said:

public thread

The thread showed up in the admin tracker. People could read it if they wanted. Is all I am saying.
That's why I figured it was a bug with the forum. /shrug

[finaljustice 8]

Hey do this:

change HEAVY BARREL to reduced rate of fire instead of reduced damage and get rid of the bloom bonus

change IMPROVED RIFLING to have bloom penalties similar to cooling jacket instead of reduced rof

Edited August 19, 2018 by finaljustice

[BlatMan 717]

22 minutes ago, finaljustice said:

Hey do this:

change HEAVY BARREL to reduced rate of fire instead of reduced damage and get rid of the bloom bonus

change IMPROVED RIFLING to have bloom penalties similar to cooling jacket instead of reduced rof

That would completely negate the point of using heavy barrel. You can reduce your rate of fire by tap firing, so why would you not just use IR?

[foolish ninja 59]

23 minutes ago, finaljustice said:

Hey do this:

change HEAVY BARREL to reduced rate of fire instead of reduced damage and get rid of the bloom bonus

change IMPROVED RIFLING to have bloom penalties similar to cooling jacket instead of reduced rof

reduced fire rate for IR makes sense, game wise. It improves your damage at range and reduces the strenght in close combat. Its logical for counter attacks.

[Lord Cashpoint 269]

Apart from the N-SSW (and maybe Obeya), are there really any other weapons that benefit from Heavy Barrel?

Maybe instead of bloom per shot, it should reduce maximum bloom. Would give it a greater benefit, and make it more suitable for LMGs and other weapons which rely on firing at maximum bloom to kill (Such as ATAC).

Edited August 19, 2018 by Lord Cashpoint

[CookiePuss 5382]

1 minute ago, Lord Cashpoint said:

Apart from the N-SSW (and maybe Obeya), are there really any other weapons that benefit from Heavy Barrel?
 

Stabba CCG

Zeus OP

[Hexerin 1142]

3 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Stabba CCG
Zeus OP

You do realize that the only reason Heavy Barrel is useful on those premodded CCGs is because Heavy Barrel only affects health damage right? If the mod wasn't bugged, it would be just as terrible on the CCGs as every other gun.

[CookiePuss 5382]

2 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

7 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Stabba CCG
Zeus OP

You do realize that the only reason Heavy Barrel is useful on those premodded CCGs is because Heavy Barrel only affects health damage right?

[finaljustice 8]

Yeah but think about it. HB isn't really used and IR in it's current state is great for some guns and terrible in others.

In theory these 3 red mods should give distinct bonuses something like: rate of fire, extra range, and bloom reduction.

CJ is in a good enough place not to touch it.

IR didnt have enough of a downside so it became almost default if CJ isnt the right choice. The extra range itself should be attractive enough to choose it. As it is now it's like a couple extra meters as an bonus to the primary benefit of easier control (lower rof).

So separate those bonuses from IR and put the easier control into HB. Which is the point of HB.

[CookiePuss 5382]

8 minutes ago, finaljustice said:

In theory these 3 red mods should give distinct bonuses something like: rate of fire, extra range, and bloom reduction.

So what you are saying is, these mods SHOULD do exactly what they DO do?

  Edited August 19, 2018 by CookiePuss

[finaljustice 8]

Yes they accomplish these goals, but not in a way that makes sense considering HB isnt used and bloom control has become the primary benefit of IR.

They did these things before the changes to IR right? So why did they change anything? To make it work better in practice, obviously. The changes didnt make things better, it just caused different problems.