1.19.6 Weekend Follow Up and next steps

[Kevkof 806]

17 minutes ago, Keshi said:

let the shotgun range nerf come and maybe people will leave the shotty's alone

I think that update already happened: Selali edited his/her post

[Keshi 436]

3 hours ago, Kevkof said:

I think that update already happened: Selali edited his/her post

oh...if so then last night i 2 shot someone with my tasz20 stock at a 30m distance...

[Kevkof 806]

4 hours ago, Keshi said:

7 hours ago, Kevkof said:

I think that update already happened: 
Selali edited his/her post

oh...if so then last night i 2 shot someone with my tasz20 stock at a 30m distance...

After the update the CSG (even with IR3) should be 10 shotting at 25m

[Nymphi--DoubleDee 83]

On 8/13/2018 at 1:51 PM, Keshi said:

i see it like this. People are always going to agree and disagree
But if cheaters got unbanned, everyone else should of got unbanned when LO decide to unban the cheaters. Either give everyone a second chance or give none.
They will be banned again if they don't learn from their mistakes. But thats just my opinion 

The reason a large amount of cheaters got unbanned, is because of the poor documentation by RP why they got banned. So LO thought it was in the best interest of fairness, that they be unbanned. 

No one was false banned for scamming other players, though.

[Revoluzzer 274]

On 8/15/2018 at 12:41 PM, Unclean said:

I still stand by the thought that the ntec is the most balanced weapon in the game, and I dont even use it.. I prefer the nssw.

It's definitely not as bad as it was in the past. But even then people said the same thing. Which doesn't make any sense to me, because bringing all weapons to that level of power and versatility would render a lot of weapons obsolete. They'd all function essentially the same.
The N-Tec has historically rolled the benefits of SMGs (low TTK), Assault Rifles (versatility) and Rifles (precision) into one, without having any of the true downsides (low range, master of none, low mobility). People said "oh it's a jack of all trades, but master of none" but I don't see how it isn't at the very least the master of all Assault Rifles (otherwise it wouldn't be the most used by far), while also encroaching on SMGs and Rifles in their own territories.
As far as I'm concerned adjusting the TTK would have mostly fixed this. But instead we get this asinine accuracy-curve-nonsense.

[Unclean 45]

1 hour ago, Revoluzzer said:

It's definitely not as bad as it was in the past. But even then people said the same thing. Which doesn't make any sense to me, because bringing all weapons to that level of power and versatility would render a lot of weapons obsolete. They'd all function essentially the same.
The N-Tec has historically rolled the benefits of SMGs (low TTK), Assault Rifles (versatility) and Rifles (precision) into one, without having any of the true downsides (low range, master of none, low mobility). People said "oh it's a jack of all trades, but master of none" but I don't see how it isn't at the very least the master of all Assault Rifles (otherwise it wouldn't be the most used by far), while also encroaching on SMGs and Rifles in their own territories.
As far as I'm concerned adjusting the TTK would have mostly fixed this. But instead we get this asinine accuracy-curve-nonsense.

I'm not saying "make everything a balanced killer at all ranges".. more like.. people are complaining about how shotguns kill so easily in cqc right now, but that's how it should be.
More like the ntec is a balanced killer at all ranges so weapons that are much harder to use or that have bad range should kill quicker.
Maybe the ntec needs a ttk of like .9 since it's great at all ranges and then range-niche weapons like shotguns and smgs would get lower ttk of around .7 because they don't have that versatility.

the ntec's ttk isn't really the issue since it matches most of the other ARs, but the issue comes when the other ARs are harder to use like you said with the precision and it's versatile. If a weapon has a niche purpose or a niche range, there's no reason for it to be harder to use or have a higher ttk than the ntec. I think explosive weapons should be harder to use, weapons that use a slower firerate to "balance" them shouldn't have other adverse effects like giant spread or recoil, and that weapons with low range shouldn't have the same ttk balance rate of a weapon that can kill you the samme from 10m or 60m

[Keshi 436]

7 hours ago, Nymphi--DoubleDee said:

The reason a large amount of cheaters got unbanned, is because of the poor documentation by RP why they got banned. So LO thought it was in the best interest of fairness, that they be unbanned. 

No one was false banned for scamming other players, though.

which, i do agree.
But still some people that WERE cheated got a second chance. Cheating and scamming are 2 different things but it's still "Breaking the ToS" if you put it like that.
But everyone has their opinion tho.
Some thinks everyone should of stayed banned regardless.
Some thinks the false bans should be unbanned(Which they end up unbanning everyone who got fairfighted)
Some thinks everyone deserves a second chance if even players(Who did cheat) got a second chance

And what would make it fair to give the "scammers" a second chance as well, is after the trading system is implemented.
Man if someone gets scammed while the game has a trading system then it's their own fault lol

[Nymphi--DoubleDee 83]

20 hours ago, Keshi said:

which, i do agree.
But still some people that WERE cheated got a second chance. Cheating and scamming are 2 different things but it's still "Breaking the ToS" if you put it like that.
But everyone has their opinion tho.
Some thinks everyone should of stayed banned regardless.
Some thinks the false bans should be unbanned(Which they end up unbanning everyone who got fairfighted)
Some thinks everyone deserves a second chance if even players(Who did cheat) got a second chance

And what would make it fair to give the "scammers" a second chance as well, is after the trading system is implemented.
Man if someone gets scammed while the game has a trading system then it's their own fault lol

Documentation showing that they scammed, generally multiple people, out of legendaries and money.

Meanwhile, there was a LOT of just banned people, with NO documentation. No reason showing that they were banned. Obviously enough bans with no documentation what so ever, to warrant LO to make the choice to unban all those without documentation.

HUGE difference. 

[Keshi 436]

8 hours ago, Nymphi--DoubleDee said:

Documentation showing that they scammed, generally multiple people, out of legendaries and money.

Meanwhile, there was a LOT of just banned people, with NO documentation. No reason showing that they were banned. Obviously enough bans with no documentation what so ever, to warrant LO to make the choice to unban all those without documentation.

HUGE difference. 

if cheaters can lose their money and JT
Then scammers should lose money, jt and all their legendaries. seems fair enough?

[Nymphi--DoubleDee 83]

51 minutes ago, Keshi said:

if cheaters can lose their money and JT
Then scammers should lose money, jt and all their legendaries. seems fair enough?

No. Because I knew some people that were false banned.

See, not all cheaters got unbanned. If you had a PB and FF ban, you stayed banned. A lot of the OLDER cheaters, stayed banned, as it was clear that they were cheating. Same with the chronic rerollers, like Film.

Also, cheating and scamming are two different things. Cheating is "Hur dur dur. I am a dummy. Everyone else is doing it." and it really only messes up missions.

Scamming, you are taking someone's hard earned cash, either APB$ or real money. Remember, those legendaries come from Joker Boxes, only, and those cost money. Real money. And the cost of Legendaries means that person really worked hard to get it, or bought it. 

One ruins missions, or Fight Club (which is lame). The other literally steals money.

No... Scammers should stay banned.

[MaxJedburgh 18]

On 8/14/2018 at 6:00 AM, MattScott said:

3) Trading System & Marketplace Policy Change
The goal is to launch the new Trading System next week. Development is done, and we're going to spend this week testing to make sure we haven't missed anything crucial. In preparation for this launch, @Selali will be posting an updated policy on Marketplace trading. This policy change is being implemented to help Customer Service provide quicker turnaround on other more important issues.

Currently, we have supported making trades through the Marketplace where players can exchange item-for-item with other players. Historically this system has been done on the honor system. But based on the amount of trouble tickets, Customer Service has seen rampant abuse which is why we are introducing the new trading system. Effective today, support will no longer be taking scam case tickets related to this type of Marketplace trading. We will strive to address all of the scam case tickets currently in the system, but going forward we no longer support this. The Marketplace will now be used to trade items for in-game currency and vice versa. The Trading system can be used to safely exchange guns and other items.

Please note: if you wish to trade items for items, please hold off until we have implemented the new trading system in game.

Thanks,
Matt

Does that not mean that scammers can now effectively scam honest traders with no recourse to Support? I may have misunderstood.

In the past there was a One Strike policy when it came to Scam Claims anyway. So it was Fool Me Once and I can report it and get my Weapon back, fool me twice and I'm on my own. It was harsh but fair enough in its own way. We ended up with Trusted Middlemen making Trades for players to avoid scams altogether*.

If you're trading an Armas weapon for an apb$ amount in order to trade for an Armas weapon on a Character Restricted sale basis, what guarantee is there that the  person you're trading with won't pay the zero real-world cost apb$ price agreed upon, and then keep the Armas Weapon you traded them without posting the Armas Weapon they agreed to put in your name at the same apb$ price? 

It sounds as if the limited use safety net we did have has been removed. I might have it wrong, but that's my concern with it. 

*( I don't trade Armas weapons since I got the Commander I was after for 2 years, incidentally. I did get caught once, and support fixed it for me. )

[vsb 6174]

8 minutes ago, MaxJedburgh said:

Does that not mean that scammers can now effectively scam honest traders with no recourse to Support? I may have misunderstood.

theres an actual player to player trading system in the works, where each player has to post and agree with the trade before accepting it

with said trading system on the way this is likely just a way for them to cut down on support tickets in the meantime (trade at your own risk until the secure option makes it through testing), since they said nearly a third of all support tickets received are about scams
 

11 minutes ago, MaxJedburgh said:

In the past there was a One Strike policy when it came to Scam Claims anyway. So it was Fool Me Once and I can report it and get my Weapon back, fool me twice and I'm on my own. It was harsh but fair enough in its own way. We ended up with Trusted Middlemen making Trades for players to avoid scams altogether*.

advertising as a middleman was a bannable offense iirc, since the official Trusted Trader program was shut down due to several trusted traders using their official status to scam people
 

13 minutes ago, MaxJedburgh said:

If you're trading an Armas weapon for an apb$ amount in order to trade for an Armas weapon on a Character Restricted sale basis, what guarantee is there that the  person you're trading with won't pay the zero real-world cost apb$ price agreed upon, and then keep the Armas Weapon you traded them without posting the Armas Weapon they agreed to put in your name at the same apb$ price?

this would qualify as RMT and has always been against the ToS, save for a very brief time when GM Trading was allowed
 

14 minutes ago, MaxJedburgh said:

It sounds as if the limited use safety net we did have has been removed. I might have it wrong, but that's my concern with it. 

regardless of how dumb i think one has to be to get scammed, the support cutoff was kind of premature

at the time it sounded fine since the trading system was complete it just needed testing, but its been a few weeks now with no news 

[Clandestine 390]

It's already wednesday and still no news from staff

[TheJellyGoo 343]

On 8/18/2018 at 8:14 PM, Nymphi--DoubleDee said:

[...]
Also, cheating and scamming are two different things. Cheating is "Hur dur dur. I am a dummy. Everyone else is doing it." and it really only messes up missions.

Scamming, you are taking someone's hard earned cash, either APB$ or real money. Remember, those legendaries come from Joker Boxes, only, and those cost money. Real money. And the cost of Legendaries means that person really worked hard to get it, or bought it. 

One ruins missions, or Fight Club (which is lame). The other literally steals money.

No... Scammers should stay banned.

Yeah, no! That's a pretty deranged view and showcases the root of the problem which keeps the whole cheater farce afloat.

Cheating damages the enjoyment of customers that try to enjoy the service and frustrations grow with continued violations of those malicious acts.
Fair players are confronted with those wrongdoers and are usually helplessly exposed to their acts as any punishment will almost always be sth. of no affect for the past.
Since it is affecting the playerbase as a whole it will ultimately have a direct affect on the businesses profit. Cheaters are guilty of stealing money to a far worse extent.
Give the market time to expand even further and when lobbyists and greedy politicians start being involved we will see a whole change of prosecution.

Here is another view on scammers. I enjoy playing the game and have a good time. I might have grinded for an item for quite some time (while having fun) or might have bought it for real money. Being scammed requires a faulty involvement of myself (unlike having to face cheaters) this is fundamentally the largest and most important difference already. Note: I don't want to say that the act to scam someone is in any way excusable but it is sth. that you're not helplessly exposed to. Also more often than not Support does seem willing to reimburse the scammed for their own stupidity... not something that can be said about the wasted time which is lost playing versus cheaters.
Sounds like a whole other level, no? Edited August 22, 2018 by TheJellyGoo

[CookiePuss 5382]

1 hour ago, Clandestine said:

It's already wednesday and still no news from staff

They are all at gamescon so, maybe next week?

[Clandestine 390]

31 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

They are all at gamescon so, maybe next week?

lol more excuses but damn at least not on vacations every 2 weeks Edited August 22, 2018 by Clandestine

[Nymphi--DoubleDee 83]

8 hours ago, TheJellyGoo said:

Yeah, no! That's a pretty deranged view and showcases the root of the problem which keeps the whole cheater farce afloat.

Cheating damages the enjoyment of customers that try to enjoy the service and frustrations grow with continued violations of those malicious acts.
Fair players are confronted with those wrongdoers and are usually helplessly exposed to their acts as any punishment will almost always be sth. of no affect for the past.
Since it is affecting the playerbase as a whole it will ultimately have a direct affect on the businesses profit. Cheaters are guilty of stealing money to a far worse extent.
Give the market time to expand even further and when lobbyists and greedy politicians start being involved we will see a whole change of prosecution.

Here is another view on scammers. I enjoy playing the game and have a good time. I might have grinded for an item for quite some time (while having fun) or might have bought it for real money. Being scammed requires a faulty involvement of myself (unlike having to face cheaters) this is fundamentally the largest and most important difference already. Note: I don't want to say that the act to scam someone is in any way excusable but it is sth. that you're not helplessly exposed to. Also more often than not Support does seem willing to reimburse the scammed for their own stupidity... not something that can be said about the wasted time which is lost playing versus cheaters.
Sounds like a whole other level, no?

How about this?

Scammers = Proof.
Banned Accounts = No Proof.

Which should stay banned?

[CookiePuss 5382]

11 minutes ago, Nymphi--DoubleDee said:

How about this?

Scammers = Proof.
Banned Accounts = No Proof.

Which should stay banned?

Yeah but I know several admitted cheaters where were unbanned.
Some who even admitted to MattScott that they were getting accounts back that they cheated on.

[TheJellyGoo 343]

3 hours ago, Nymphi--DoubleDee said:

How about this?

Scammers = Proof.
Banned Accounts = No Proof.

Which should stay banned?

That was not the point of my post and I have no intention to participate any further in the unbanning discussion than already done months ago.
Just be said there can be both cases where you just switch "proof/no proof" around what then?
Obviously "proof" should at best stay banned but the decision has been made. Pointless discussion.

Seeing that you kinda ignored the message of my post I assume you agree with it. Edited August 23, 2018 by TheJellyGoo

[Nymphi--DoubleDee 83]

11 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Yeah but I know several admitted cheaters where were unbanned.
Some who even admitted to MattScott that they were getting accounts back that they cheated on.

And then there were those that claimed they never cheated, and got their accounts back. But the thing is, RP didn't document it. Just, banned and moved on. Meanwhile, scammers had annotation. If RP had put reasons why a lot of people were banned, I am sure LO wouldn't have mass unbanned.

8 hours ago, TheJellyGoo said:

That was not the point of my post and I have no intention to participate any further in the unbanning discussion than already done months ago.
Just be said there can be both cases where you just switch "proof/no proof" around what then?
Obviously "proof" should at best stay banned but the decision has been made. Pointless discussion.

Seeing that you kinda ignored the message of my post I assume you agree with it.

As Matt Scott had said when it was about the RP unbans, there just wasn't any evidence that RP had on the accounts that showed why that person was banned, besides manual or automatic. So, all the manual bans that had no proof why they were banned, were unbanned. Hense, no proof why they were banned.

Meanwhile, scammers have logs, annotations, etc, showing why they were banned. That's why they knew they were scammers. Hense, proof of why they were banned.

 

[CookiePuss 5382]

3 minutes ago, Nymphi--DoubleDee said:

And then there were those that claimed they never cheated, and got their accounts back. But the thing is, RP didn't document it. Just, banned and moved on. Meanwhile, scammers had annotation. If RP had

What more documentation do you need aside from "Hey thanks for giving this account back, and I totally was cheating on it btw" ?

[Nymphi--DoubleDee 83]

32 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

36 minutes ago, Nymphi--DoubleDee said:

And then there were those that claimed they never cheated, and got their accounts back. But the thing is, RP didn't document it. Just, banned and moved on. Meanwhile, scammers had annotation. If RP had

What more documentation do you need aside from "Hey thanks for giving this account back, and I totally was cheating on it btw" ?

That's on LO to ban them. But as it stood, there wasn't evidence on their end (left from RP) stating why an account was banned. Far too many for them to wade through the THOUSANDS of tickets for banned accounts, that showed NO documentation on why they were specifically banned.

Unlike scammers, that had evidence from RP, on why they were banned.

[CookiePuss 5382]

1 minute ago, Nymphi--DoubleDee said:

That's on LO to ban them. But as it stood, there wasn't evidence on their end (left from RP) stating why an account was banned. Far too many for them to wade through the THOUSANDS of tickets for banned accounts, that showed NO documentation on why they were specifically banned.

Unlike scammers, that had evidence from RP, on why they were banned.

I dont think we were ever give numbers on bans without evidence, no?

[Keshi 436]

22 hours ago, Clandestine said:

It's already wednesday and still no news from staff

Thursday and no updates...

20 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

They are all at gamescon so, maybe next week?

wait so if we get DDoS'd then who gon restart the servers :v

 

 

 

 

 (issa joke)

[Clandestine 390]

1 hour ago, Keshi said:

Thursday and no updates... wait so if we get DDoS'd then who gon restart the servers :v

 

 

 

 

 (issa joke)

Maybe Lady Vacations??