LtL Feedback

[TheJellyGoo 343]

Not sure why you see it as hostility when I depict the apparent flaws in your statement - be it yours or someone else's!
Please, be kind enough to disclose what presumptions you are talking about if you think they are not applicable.

[OfficerKovacs 36]

10 hours ago, LilyV3 said:

iirc the time to spawn from being arrested was masively reduced and isn't long anymore at all.

Wow, it feels huge now, but I never played back then. I'll try and hit back with this next time a criminal "asks" to be killed after an arrest.

7 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

Criminals DID have LTL and it caused some unbalances so the crim stun weapons were removed for it.

That is cool, did they arrest just like the enforcers or have their own special move?

12 hours ago, LazyLizard said:

As for OfficerKovacs: No, just..no.

[Fortune Runner 796]

1 hour ago, OfficerKovacs said:

That is cool, did they arrest just like the enforcers or have their own special move?

Just a stun that I recall.
Back then the  G1 staff and community decided it was bad because it was hard enough for enforcers to get arrests then the crims could easily stop that with  a stun like how enforcers baited crims with one arrested.
This was before deployables as well.
I do not know if it was only G1 who said they preferred  LTL faction based for originality but I do recall G1 and the community agreed the drop in arrests meant enforcers lost their income.

[Haganu 105]

19 hours ago, LilyV3 said:

realise how crappy LTL is and never use it again.

PIG nerfs? for a weapon with exactly 10m range, what nonsense. If people stop facehugging everything would be fine.

I wish you good luck not facehugging anyone in Asylum where CQC combat is pushed so far by objective and overall flow of players that the PIG is actually an exploit there.
Or what about enclosed areas in mission districts where you have to CQC?

10m maximum reach is in no way an excuse to make a gun instantly stun you when you stub your toe.

On another note, I like how people always ignore Asylum, while Asylum is the ideal place to showcase and exploit everything that's wrong with APB's gameplay. 
Pig percing is outdated despite still effective (you can't fully prepare yourself for it in Asylum since there's so much CQC combat going on and other than 1 idiot one day in the week everyone's always using Carbine/NTEC/OCA/Shotguns). A lot of people rather shotgun pig these days. Even if half your shot misses it's such an easy +200 points. It takes only a few shots from the pellet to go past 50 stamina damage.

IMO, in present-day APB combat the PIG feels very, VERY out of place. In literally no encounter I've ever been in I can say I've been stunned by a PIG because the player fought well or had better gun control. There's just no need for gun control when your gun deals 950/1000 damage. It's literally as broken as the HVR.
  Edited August 7, 2018 by Haganu

[OfficerKovacs 36]

39 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

Back then the  G1 staff and community decided it was bad because it was hard enough for enforcers to get arrests then the crims could easily stop that with  a stun like how enforcers baited crims with one arrested.

The community wanted LtL only enforcers? I am getting such a different reaction in game. 

39 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

This was before deployables as well.

Deployable stuns? That sounds cool too, oh man can we get spike traps?

[Fortune Runner 796]

41 minutes ago, OfficerKovacs said:

The community wanted LtL only enforcers? I am getting such a different reaction in game. 

A few think it would be good and so far I believe it was only crims who said that.
I was here for when both sides had LTL and when  the community said it was not a good idea.
Hardly any enforcers who were gold could get arrests back then.
it was pretty bad from the unbalance having LTL on both sides caused.

44 minutes ago, OfficerKovacs said:

Deployable stuns? That sounds cool too, oh man can we get spike traps?

The only deployable items I have seen were the yellows we use now.
They did not have deployable stun items that I have ever seen.
APB is not set up for a map to handle that properly.
If after the engine is upgraded and if they decide to make whole new maps then anything is possible.
The current maps would be a nightmare if deployable stuns existed.
 

[TheJellyGoo 343]

4 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

Just a stun that I recall.
Back then the  G1 staff and community decided it was bad because it was hard enough for enforcers to get arrests then the crims could easily stop that with  a stun like how enforcers baited crims with one arrested. [...]

 

2 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

[...]
Hardly any enforcers who were gold could get arrests back then.
it was pretty bad from the unbalance having LTL on both sides caused. [...]
 

No, criminals having LTL doesn't change anything on the difficulty of enforcer performing successful arrests.
You pull out those claims yet ignore to present how it does actually bring forth an "imbalance" - how could crim LTL make it any harder than lethal gunplay.

It's time for you to show those "G1 and community" decisions... you just keep telling your tales with how you remember it.
Just because crims could get their hands on LTL through a workaround early beta when guns didn't expire doesn't mean they "had" LTL.
With APBs model overhaul and the introduction of leasing and weapon lock the issue solved itself without much problem.
And no one cared since crim LTL wasn't any imbalanced abomination that ruined the games economy or player distribution.
 

[Fortune Runner 796]

Once again....please reread.....sigh

[TheJellyGoo 343]

Once again... ignoring any uncomfortable remarks that disclose the apparent flaws in your posts!
Shouldn't be to hard for you to show me otherwise if you're as right as you proclaim, no?

[Fortune Runner 796]

45 minutes ago, TheJellyGoo said:

It's time for you to show those "G1 and community" decisions... you just keep telling your tales with how you remember it.

You know where the old forums are if you want to so look it up yourself lazy >.>
You seem to keep twisting words like you prefer to do so to me so rather than be involved in a pointless argument that you apparently enjoy I'd rather not cause trouble on the forums by feeding a troll.
And others have said in game and I believe on the new forums already as well. Not certain about that last part. But it is on the old forums so go do your own homework.

 

[LilyV3 323]

12 hours ago, Haganu said:

I wish you good luck not facehugging anyone in Asylum where CQC combat is pushed so far by objective and overall flow of players that the PIG is actually an exploit there.
Or what about enclosed areas in mission districts where you have to CQC?

10m maximum reach is in no way an excuse to make a gun instantly stun you when you stub your toe.

On another note, I like how people always ignore Asylum, while Asylum is the ideal place to showcase and exploit everything that's wrong with APB's gameplay. 
Pig percing is outdated despite still effective (you can't fully prepare yourself for it in Asylum since there's so much CQC combat going on and other than 1 idiot one day in the week everyone's always using Carbine/NTEC/OCA/Shotguns). A lot of people rather shotgun pig these days. Even if half your shot misses it's such an easy +200 points. It takes only a few shots from the pellet to go past 50 stamina damage.

IMO, in present-day APB combat the PIG feels very, VERY out of place. In literally no encounter I've ever been in I can say I've been stunned by a PIG because the player fought well or had better gun control. There's just no need for gun control when your gun deals 950/1000 damage. It's literally as broken as the HVR.
 

it still doesn't instantly stun, you all make it look like you always are predamaged an get 10m faceshots, sorry but thats way more exaggerated than its true.  if it is sooo strong, why isn't half the enfo population using it? well because it isn't strong at all. Wonder if all the QQ would stop if crims get LTL too, but I bet they just gonna complain how useless it s and that crim LTL is having a hidden nerf. Edited August 7, 2018 by LilyV3

[Fennel 62]

4 hours ago, LilyV3 said:

it still doesn't instantly stun, you all make it look like you always are predamaged an get 10m faceshots, sorry but thats way more exaggerated than its true.  if it is sooo strong, why isn't half the enfo population using it? well because it isn't strong at all. Wonderbif all the QQ would stop if crims get LTL too, but I bet they just gonna complain how useless it s and that crim LTL is having a hidden nerf.

+1

[vsb 6174]

4 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

You know where the old forums are if you want to so look it up yourself lazy >.>
You seem to keep twisting words like you prefer to do so to me so rather than be involved in a pointless argument that you apparently enjoy I'd rather not cause trouble on the forums by feeding a troll.
And others have said in game and I believe on the new forums already as well. Not certain about that last part. But it is on the old forums so go do your own homework.

 

if you’re just throwing out “facts” without proof they’re going to get disregarded 

how exactly would criminals having ltl affect enforcers with ltl? none of your answers have made any sense tbh

[Fenton 210]

The can of worms has been opened.

A fair number of vocal criminals claim hotly and loudly that LTL is horrible, over-powered and should be outright removed or massively nerfed.

Regular LTL Enforcers either claim it is balanced, or in need of a buff.

Perception be damned; I'd like to see some actual numbers from LO/G1 to see how popular it is and just how effective it may or may not be.

[LilyV3 323]

29 minutes ago, Fenton said:

The can of worms has been opened.

A fair number of vocal criminals claim hotly and loudly that LTL is horrible, over-powered and should be outright removed or massively nerfed.

Regular LTL Enforcers either claim it is balanced, or in need of a buff.

Perception be damned; I'd like to see some actual numbers from LO/G1 to see how popular it is and just how effective it may or may not be.

Would love to see how many enforcers choose ltl vs gold threated opponents. In bronze town every crap works anyways, but a weapons true need  for performance shows on gold + even with all the fake golds we have, thats still a better measurement mark than counting in bronze matches. But I wonder how many dethreaters just annoy crims with ltl and abuse the deathreathing posibility even more.

[Fortune Runner 796]

4 hours ago, BXNNXD said:

if you’re just throwing out “facts” without proof they’re going to get disregarded 

how exactly would criminals having ltl affect enforcers with ltl? none of your answers have made any sense tbh

Since when did the old community and G1 make sense *shrugs* all I did was mention what was on the old forums and then the angry step child over there came out meh
It could of been around the time G1 was tinkering around with spawn points as well. The posts are on the old threads. Edited August 7, 2018 by Fortune Runner

[Fennel 62]

3 hours ago, LilyV3 said:

Would love to see how many enforcers choose ltl vs gold threated opponents. In bronze town every crap works anyways, but a weapons true need  for performance shows on gold + even with all the fake golds we have, thats still a better measurement mark than counting in bronze matches. But I wonder how many dethreaters just annoy crims with ltl and abuse the deathreathing posibility even more.

eh can u blame someone whos bad with an nl9 that cant get any kills on silver and wind up silver themselves and go on bronze after?

[Fenton 210]

21 hours ago, LilyV3 said:

Would love to see how many enforcers choose ltl vs gold threated opponents. In bronze town every crap works anyways, but a weapons true need  for performance shows on gold + even with all the fake golds we have, thats still a better measurement mark than counting in bronze matches. But I wonder how many dethreaters just annoy crims with ltl and abuse the deathreathing posibility even more.

Challenge accepted! I'll see if I can't grab some volunteers for LTL enforcement on Silver and Gold.

I make no apologies if I end up as a 255 Bronze as a result of that.

[Haganu 105]

On 8/7/2018 at 11:20 AM, LilyV3 said:

it still doesn't instantly stun, you all make it look like you always are predamaged an get 10m faceshots, sorry but thats way more exaggerated than its true.  if it is sooo strong, why isn't half the enfo population using it? well because it isn't strong at all. Wonder if all the QQ would stop if crims get LTL too, but I bet they just gonna complain how useless it s and that crim LTL is having a hidden nerf.

just like the hvr doesn't instantly kill but you see the amount of complaints about that weapon, and yes, if you look for the pvp in Asylum it's very easy to be pre-damaged, which is exactly where, as I said before, the PIG's stun damage sees the most of its exploits
in mission district land nothing is ever wrong right? maybe if you play Asylum as crim for a few weeks you'll see for yourself
Wondering if the next argument will be "Asylum doesn't count" or "Don't play Asylum then". Edited August 15, 2018 by Haganu

[TonyKebell 5]

On 8/6/2018 at 7:05 PM, Fortune Runner said:

I guess people have forgotten this :
Criminals DID have LTL and it caused some unbalances so the crim stun weapons were removed for it.

One unbalance was crims have ram raiding to make money while enforcers have LTL. When crims also had LTL enforcers had a significant loss of income and could not make money on their faction and resulted in a wide gross count of more criminals than enforcers joining due to money alone.
We can not have a full district on both sides if we go back to that again. No thank you.

Sorry, but I've never really followed the mechanics of this game, i just play it. How does LTL balance ram raiding for cash?

[Fenton 210]

2 hours ago, TonyKebell said:

On ‎8‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 7:05 PM, Fortune Runner said:

 

Sorry, but I've never really followed the mechanics of this game, i just play it. How does LTL balance ram raiding for cash?

It's all about perceived income. In theory, Criminals can ram raid and mug to rapidly gain cash - They can be witnessed and intercepted by Enforcers, but this is often forgotten by both sides. LTL allegedly provides a way to "easily" increase Enforcer income.

[Genobee 143]

On 8/6/2018 at 10:48 PM, Fortune Runner said:

Just a stun that I recall.
Back then the  G1 staff and community decided it was bad because it was hard enough for enforcers to get arrests then the crims could easily stop that with  a stun like how enforcers baited crims with one arrested.
This was before deployables as well.
 I do not know if it was only G1 who said they preferred  LTL faction based for originality but I do recall G1 and the community agreed the drop in arrests meant enforcers lost their income.

I don't recall a time when criminals had access to a special stun of any sort. There were plans in place for an equivalent that neither RTW or G1 ever got to do. Though that wasn't a stun to the best of my knowledge. Are you sure you aren't thinking of the debate surrounding weapons like the DMR stunning instead of killing with HB3?

[Too_many_snowflakes 80]

We need more LTL weapons.  There just isn't enough variety. 
That, and make LTL weapons more accessible to players.  (Put them up on ARMAS, make available for rent through the Joker Store, etc.)
 

[Fortune Runner 796]

6 hours ago, Genobee said:

I don't recall a time when criminals had access to a special stun of any sort. There were plans in place for an equivalent that neither RTW or G1 ever got to do. Though that wasn't a stun to the best of my knowledge. Are you sure you aren't thinking of the debate surrounding weapons like the DMR stunning instead of killing with HB3?

I had a crim with LTL back then.
I do not remember how long ago this was.
It may of been on Colby before the merger or after on Jericho.
All I really remember is ticking enforcers off with it and G1 and the community saying it unblanced the factions for enforcers to make money.
And no I never really understood how it unbalanced things completely other than it interfered with the arrests.

I have found out recently G1 tended to lie a lot more than previously  believed by the community to us , which is why I also thought it was true that the engine couldn't handle a frame rate increase
(different thread that someone informed me of the details and how G1 flat out lied about the engine we have and what it can do)

With that said it is possible it interfered with arrests just from stunning enforcers by  using crims as bait but wouldn't just killing the enforcers do the same liek what we do  to stop arrests?
As for crims having LTL I do not really know of any reason why they should have LTL since they can't arrest anyways and if they kill with a LTL its pretty much a waste of ammo.

to sum this up : I do not know a reason to give crims LTL since they cant arrest with it anyways so it would make the missions one sided
If I am mistaken on anything I apologize since I had heard what I posted from the community as well as G1 which is why  I believed it since the community back then posted it  on the old forums as well.
When the community said so as well I listened hence some of my posts will probably not add up...
My apologies I do not know enough about the engine since I was lied to.

[Genobee 143]

4 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

Outside of bugs I do not think criminals ever had LTL?

Sounds like a GM accidentally gave you the wrong weapon at some point along the way. Or was available through a contact mistakenly or some other error. That likely wouldn't have been an intended feature on their part. They'd adamantly stated in the past that criminals simply did not get access to it. With ram raiding being the "equivalent" (I use that term loosely).